Tarmander
Member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2015
- Messages
- 3,770
I wanted to share this amazing gut protocol that I have been on for the last few months (results below)
I am in a unique position as a type 1 diabetic in that my pancreas produces little to no insulin on its own. This gives me an insight into what supplements and herbs do to insulin needs in both the short term and long term
If I notice a supplement lowers the amount of insulin I need, then theoretically it could lower the amount of insulin a normal person would produce. Perhaps even lowering any insulin resistance, and increasing metabolism as well
Everyone is different and results will be different
The protocol comes from Ken Lassesen and was originally developed for CFS. I think it can help anyone experiencing weight gain and metabolism slow down which is very common on a RP diet.
Read the full article here: Change Agents: Ken Lassesen on Prescription and Herbal Antibiotics to Alter the Gut Flora in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - Health Rising
The protocol works by taking an herb/supplement/probiotic for a week and then shifting to a new one.
This shifts the gut microbiome each week in a healthier direction. Think muscle confusion. By shifting constantly, you never give your muscles the chance to plateau out.
By shifting the supplement each week, the unhealthy bacteria do not get a chance to gain resistance to a substance
Here is the protocol summarized, but the article is worth reading, as well as the comments:
-200 mg/day of minocycline (as a neuroprotector — for those can persuade MDs to write an ongoing prescription) – on going
Week 1: Haritaki: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 2: Prescript-Assist: Work up to 2 capsules per day then stop
Week 3: Tulsi: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 4: Align or a 100% Bifidobacterium probiotic (preferably with mainly Bifidobacterium Infantis)
Week 5: Neem: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 6: Mutaflor or other E.Coli Probioitcs (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 7: Lactobacillus Reuteri (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 8: Take a break — ideally review your notes to find what had the greatest effect and use that for 2 weeks, working your way down the list for effectiveness
Week 9: Turmeric (breaks down a form of coagulation that seems to occur with CFS) – up to 10 capsules per day. If you have piracetam, also take that.
Second Pass
Repeat the above, with the following additions. I excluded these in the first pass because they can, by themselves, produce massive herx.
Week 1: NAC and EDTA – these are biofilm breakers, and you should repeat every 3 weeks of this cycle in addition to whatever else you are doing. Biofilms are “domed cities of bacteria” – the antibiotics kill the outer level and the dead bacteria bodies protect the inhabitants.
Week 2: Bromelain, Nattokinease, Serrapetase, Lumbrokinease – these are antibiotic potentators. They in general dissolve fibrin deposits allowing antibiotics to penetrate deeper (up to 10x greater concentration in tissue). Bacteria will often trigger fibrin so they have their own little world shielded off by the fibrin. Repeat every four weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.
Week 3: Boswellia, Myrth – these are anti-inflamnatories. Inflammation keeps antibiotics away from the bacteria (just like fibrin and biofilms) — you want to reduce the inflammation. Repeat every two weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.
Over time items:
If the above does not work well, i.e. zero herx and zero improvement — the following should be tried:
Week A: Olive Leaf Extract
Week B: Worm Wood
Week C: Monolaurin
I made some changes to the protocol. I did not take Minocycline throughout. I did 3 different antibiotics for a week, spaced a month apart. (alldaychemist.com)
Erythromycin 250mg x2/day for 1 week
Minocycline 100mg x2/day for 1 week
Azithromycin 500mg x1/day for 4 days (1000mg on the first day)
I also did both passes at the same time.
Results:
•In December I was taking 30 units of Tresiba (long acting insulin) per day. As of today I am taking 18 units of Tresiba. Last time I took that little insulin I was a teenager with a teenage metabolism.
•I lost 7-8 pounds. I expect to slowly drop weight as time goes on as the low amount of insulin would suggest it. Losing around 2 pounds per month it seems. The subjective feel of weight loss has changed. Before I would lose a few pounds and my body wanted to put it right back on. It was a battle. That is the opposite now. My body wants to shed weight and I have to work at keeping it.
•During this trial, I had to consume copious amounts of sugar to keep my blood sugar elevated as I brought insulin levels down. Usually consuming 64 oz of apple juice a day in addition to my regular diet (see below). Any problems with pure sugar seem to be gone.
•Massive increase in energy. Walking 1.5 hours per day with no exercise intolerance. I used to have insomnia whenever I would exercise. That is gone
•brain power increased on average, although some of the substances made that worse.
Here are my notes for each substance:
•Erythromycin: Gave great energy and did not interfere with sleep. Caused loose stool. Lowered blood sugar massively, almost as much as the Neem. Great muscle tone. Improved posture even.
•Minocycline: Also gave great energy but insomnia too. I will never take Mino before going to bed if I want to sleep even a little. Made my body feel hollow, kind of strung out. Better and tighter skin, and better muscle tone. Boswellia improved symptoms
•Azithromycin: Caused insomnia and gave energy like Mino, but not the hollow feeling. Made scalp itchy and hair fall out a bit. While it was not as bad as Mino, Boswellia did not improve the symptoms so in some ways it was worse.
•Haritake(https://amzn.to/33CXINM): Nausea at first. Very hungry. Intense mental effects that went away after a couple days. Very odd feelings, like it was summer when I was a kid. Body felt heavy, immobile, fell asleep quickly. Rash popped up on my hand (yeast?). Lowered blood sugar
•Prescript assist(https://amzn.to/3alu0zz): I found an old bottle of this at a healthfood store. Not sure if the new formula will give these same effects. Felt tired, dizzy, kind of spacey and loopy. Very deep sleep…like sinking into the ocean
•Tulsi(https://amzn.to/2QBqaKw): Increased muscles big time. All my exercises were much easier. Felt militant, disciplined, emotionless, calm, focused. Didn’t improve sleep but didn’t make it worse. Lowered blood sugar big time. May have caused a hemorrhoid after 5 days of taking max dosage. Possible fungal problem as pinky toe had athlete’s food which went away after cessation.
•Bifido(https://amzn.to/2xigmyw): I took Jarrow Bifido for this. Did not like at first. Caused anxiety and emotionality. But after the first couple days, had the best brain boost I have ever had. Mind felt flow like, absolutely on fire. Memorization great. On the verge of being too strong for the mind, almost uncomfortable but not quite. Blood sugars better. Body seemed to look a little more feminine oddly. I had just come off tulsi, which masculinized me, and the bifido seem to make me more curvy and feminine. Weird I know but that was the sense I got. Didn’t cause gyno or anything. The bifido probiotics are all very different. I tried Align before this back in November and it did not do these things. So depending on which bifido you get, you may get very different results.
•Neem(https://amzn.to/2Ucghp3) : Lost weight quicker. Nuclear bomb for blood sugars. I was constantly chugging apple juice and eating fruit snacks to keep my blood sugar up. Started waking up at 5am and unable to get back to sleep. Was good at first. Puffed up muscles, cleared my skin. As time went on, I got less and less sleep. Couldn’t fall asleep, couldn’t stay asleep. Had some nights I slept 2 hours. Started to feel strung out, tired, lack of sleep drunk. Brain felt like it had too much MSG. After stopping Neem, the effects stayed. I am never ******* taking this ***t again. It has been weeks since stopping and I am still struggling with this a bit. Avoid for me.
•Mutaflor(Mutaflor): Usually improves ability to sleep in (like a teenager!). First couple days gives gas and loose stool. Lowers blood sugars so better to take in the morning. Gives a serotonin feeling to my brain if I take a lot of it.
•Lactobacillus Reuteri (https://amzn.to/3alLrj6) : Did not feel anything. I noticed the one I bought was super low dose, and shipped without an ice pack (heat sensitive). May try again with a different brand.
•Turmeric(https://amzn.to/3dlCzMo) : Didn’t notice much
•Boswellia (https://amzn.to/2xigyOg) : I ended up using this for most of the protocol. It lowered the symptoms of insomnia for the antibiotics and a bit for Neem. Really grew to like Boswellia.
•Systemic Enzymes(https://amzn.to/2J3SsZU and https://amzn.to/394vM6w) : I tried Natto, Serra, and Lumbrokinase. Natto and Serra really did not do much but oh my god I love Lumbrokinase. Gave that empty flat stomach feeling you get when you fast, but I was eating. Cleared my mind. I take 6 pills per day, 2 before each meal. I know I was supposed to rotate but I loved it so much I just stayed on it.
•NAC and EDTA: These seemed to riskiest part of the protocol and I stayed away. NAC also contraindicated from one of my microbiome tests.
Other notes from protocol:
•Any substance that did me good, felt like crap the first day or two. Usually emotional, anxiety, sleep problems. The one substance that seriously did me wrong was Neem. It felt good the first few days, and slowly became a nightmare. I have noticed this pattern with other substances I take. If it feels good right away, usually not a good sign…at least in this microbiome world.
•After the Neem, I did not do anything for a week or two and the insulin results stuck. I didnt need more insulin. That sometimes happens if you take something hormonal. Meaning I would need less insulin while on the hormone (better metabolism?) then after going off would need more insulin again (nope)
•did not try the wormwood, olive leaf, or monolaurin. I have done all three before and they have various effects.
•Yeast seemed to be a problem in two instances. The hand rash and athletes foot. When I do another pass. I may add in a week of oregano oil and caprilic acid.
Confounding Factors:
These factors played a role in all this, but not sure to what extent
•My regular diet in December was meat, potatoes/rice, and a little refried beans each meal
My diet shifted in January to
breakfast: Rice and green beans
Lunch: meat and green beans
Dinner: Rice and green beans/broccoli/cauliflower
So three meals of meat a day down to one. That is a confounding factor that may muddy the results of the protocol itself.
•I have been nebulizing 100mg of glutathione everyday for 1 year +
•I started nicotine patches in November
•In February I started using a heat lamp daily
•I went off thyroid in late Jan/early Feb
•I took Pepcid for a month in Jan
•Stopped taking daily betaine HCL in December
In conclusion:
While this has been very rocky at times, especially with insomnia, it is a massive success.
When I first started the Peat life, I was crashing from too much endurance exercise and job burnout. I was scarfing down ice cream and orange juice like mad.
My insulin needs sky rocketed (50 units of long term insulin a day!) and I gained 50 pounds. That was 5-6 years ago. I have tried a myriad of ways to get my metabolism rolling and lose weight without dieting to no success.
Finally, I am on the path to losing weight, eating as much sugar as I want, and being able to exercise again.
Focusing on shifting the microbiome seems to give permanent results. Ray Peat is right about keeping gut bacteria down...but it's not just an important aspect...it may be the most crucial part of his writings
By tinkering with this protocol, I can assure sleep, energy, and less insulin needs.
In addition, by not taking any substance for longer than a couple weeks, I don't develop tolerance or get bad side effects.
Other than the antibiotics, EDTA, and NAC, this protocol is very low risk. Any mineral/vitamin imbalances you may get from long term use of a substance is not a factor.
I hope you enjoyed this post. I put a lot of work and note taking into this. (full disclosure, if you get value from this post, links above are affiliate).
I will do a podcast on this in a few weeks if you are a better listener then reader, like me. Thanks for reading and big props to Ken for originally creating this
I am in a unique position as a type 1 diabetic in that my pancreas produces little to no insulin on its own. This gives me an insight into what supplements and herbs do to insulin needs in both the short term and long term
If I notice a supplement lowers the amount of insulin I need, then theoretically it could lower the amount of insulin a normal person would produce. Perhaps even lowering any insulin resistance, and increasing metabolism as well
Everyone is different and results will be different
The protocol comes from Ken Lassesen and was originally developed for CFS. I think it can help anyone experiencing weight gain and metabolism slow down which is very common on a RP diet.
Read the full article here: Change Agents: Ken Lassesen on Prescription and Herbal Antibiotics to Alter the Gut Flora in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - Health Rising
The protocol works by taking an herb/supplement/probiotic for a week and then shifting to a new one.
This shifts the gut microbiome each week in a healthier direction. Think muscle confusion. By shifting constantly, you never give your muscles the chance to plateau out.
By shifting the supplement each week, the unhealthy bacteria do not get a chance to gain resistance to a substance
Here is the protocol summarized, but the article is worth reading, as well as the comments:
-200 mg/day of minocycline (as a neuroprotector — for those can persuade MDs to write an ongoing prescription) – on going
Week 1: Haritaki: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 2: Prescript-Assist: Work up to 2 capsules per day then stop
Week 3: Tulsi: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 4: Align or a 100% Bifidobacterium probiotic (preferably with mainly Bifidobacterium Infantis)
Week 5: Neem: Work up to 6 “00” capsules per day then stop
Week 6: Mutaflor or other E.Coli Probioitcs (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 7: Lactobacillus Reuteri (work up to 2x recommended dosage)
Week 8: Take a break — ideally review your notes to find what had the greatest effect and use that for 2 weeks, working your way down the list for effectiveness
Week 9: Turmeric (breaks down a form of coagulation that seems to occur with CFS) – up to 10 capsules per day. If you have piracetam, also take that.
Second Pass
Repeat the above, with the following additions. I excluded these in the first pass because they can, by themselves, produce massive herx.
Week 1: NAC and EDTA – these are biofilm breakers, and you should repeat every 3 weeks of this cycle in addition to whatever else you are doing. Biofilms are “domed cities of bacteria” – the antibiotics kill the outer level and the dead bacteria bodies protect the inhabitants.
Week 2: Bromelain, Nattokinease, Serrapetase, Lumbrokinease – these are antibiotic potentators. They in general dissolve fibrin deposits allowing antibiotics to penetrate deeper (up to 10x greater concentration in tissue). Bacteria will often trigger fibrin so they have their own little world shielded off by the fibrin. Repeat every four weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.
Week 3: Boswellia, Myrth – these are anti-inflamnatories. Inflammation keeps antibiotics away from the bacteria (just like fibrin and biofilms) — you want to reduce the inflammation. Repeat every two weeks in addition to whatever else you are doing.
Over time items:
If the above does not work well, i.e. zero herx and zero improvement — the following should be tried:
Week A: Olive Leaf Extract
Week B: Worm Wood
Week C: Monolaurin
I made some changes to the protocol. I did not take Minocycline throughout. I did 3 different antibiotics for a week, spaced a month apart. (alldaychemist.com)
Erythromycin 250mg x2/day for 1 week
Minocycline 100mg x2/day for 1 week
Azithromycin 500mg x1/day for 4 days (1000mg on the first day)
I also did both passes at the same time.
Results:
•In December I was taking 30 units of Tresiba (long acting insulin) per day. As of today I am taking 18 units of Tresiba. Last time I took that little insulin I was a teenager with a teenage metabolism.
•I lost 7-8 pounds. I expect to slowly drop weight as time goes on as the low amount of insulin would suggest it. Losing around 2 pounds per month it seems. The subjective feel of weight loss has changed. Before I would lose a few pounds and my body wanted to put it right back on. It was a battle. That is the opposite now. My body wants to shed weight and I have to work at keeping it.
•During this trial, I had to consume copious amounts of sugar to keep my blood sugar elevated as I brought insulin levels down. Usually consuming 64 oz of apple juice a day in addition to my regular diet (see below). Any problems with pure sugar seem to be gone.
•Massive increase in energy. Walking 1.5 hours per day with no exercise intolerance. I used to have insomnia whenever I would exercise. That is gone
•brain power increased on average, although some of the substances made that worse.
Here are my notes for each substance:
•Erythromycin: Gave great energy and did not interfere with sleep. Caused loose stool. Lowered blood sugar massively, almost as much as the Neem. Great muscle tone. Improved posture even.
•Minocycline: Also gave great energy but insomnia too. I will never take Mino before going to bed if I want to sleep even a little. Made my body feel hollow, kind of strung out. Better and tighter skin, and better muscle tone. Boswellia improved symptoms
•Azithromycin: Caused insomnia and gave energy like Mino, but not the hollow feeling. Made scalp itchy and hair fall out a bit. While it was not as bad as Mino, Boswellia did not improve the symptoms so in some ways it was worse.
•Haritake(https://amzn.to/33CXINM): Nausea at first. Very hungry. Intense mental effects that went away after a couple days. Very odd feelings, like it was summer when I was a kid. Body felt heavy, immobile, fell asleep quickly. Rash popped up on my hand (yeast?). Lowered blood sugar
•Prescript assist(https://amzn.to/3alu0zz): I found an old bottle of this at a healthfood store. Not sure if the new formula will give these same effects. Felt tired, dizzy, kind of spacey and loopy. Very deep sleep…like sinking into the ocean
•Tulsi(https://amzn.to/2QBqaKw): Increased muscles big time. All my exercises were much easier. Felt militant, disciplined, emotionless, calm, focused. Didn’t improve sleep but didn’t make it worse. Lowered blood sugar big time. May have caused a hemorrhoid after 5 days of taking max dosage. Possible fungal problem as pinky toe had athlete’s food which went away after cessation.
•Bifido(https://amzn.to/2xigmyw): I took Jarrow Bifido for this. Did not like at first. Caused anxiety and emotionality. But after the first couple days, had the best brain boost I have ever had. Mind felt flow like, absolutely on fire. Memorization great. On the verge of being too strong for the mind, almost uncomfortable but not quite. Blood sugars better. Body seemed to look a little more feminine oddly. I had just come off tulsi, which masculinized me, and the bifido seem to make me more curvy and feminine. Weird I know but that was the sense I got. Didn’t cause gyno or anything. The bifido probiotics are all very different. I tried Align before this back in November and it did not do these things. So depending on which bifido you get, you may get very different results.
•Neem(https://amzn.to/2Ucghp3) : Lost weight quicker. Nuclear bomb for blood sugars. I was constantly chugging apple juice and eating fruit snacks to keep my blood sugar up. Started waking up at 5am and unable to get back to sleep. Was good at first. Puffed up muscles, cleared my skin. As time went on, I got less and less sleep. Couldn’t fall asleep, couldn’t stay asleep. Had some nights I slept 2 hours. Started to feel strung out, tired, lack of sleep drunk. Brain felt like it had too much MSG. After stopping Neem, the effects stayed. I am never ******* taking this ***t again. It has been weeks since stopping and I am still struggling with this a bit. Avoid for me.
•Mutaflor(Mutaflor): Usually improves ability to sleep in (like a teenager!). First couple days gives gas and loose stool. Lowers blood sugars so better to take in the morning. Gives a serotonin feeling to my brain if I take a lot of it.
•Lactobacillus Reuteri (https://amzn.to/3alLrj6) : Did not feel anything. I noticed the one I bought was super low dose, and shipped without an ice pack (heat sensitive). May try again with a different brand.
•Turmeric(https://amzn.to/3dlCzMo) : Didn’t notice much
•Boswellia (https://amzn.to/2xigyOg) : I ended up using this for most of the protocol. It lowered the symptoms of insomnia for the antibiotics and a bit for Neem. Really grew to like Boswellia.
•Systemic Enzymes(https://amzn.to/2J3SsZU and https://amzn.to/394vM6w) : I tried Natto, Serra, and Lumbrokinase. Natto and Serra really did not do much but oh my god I love Lumbrokinase. Gave that empty flat stomach feeling you get when you fast, but I was eating. Cleared my mind. I take 6 pills per day, 2 before each meal. I know I was supposed to rotate but I loved it so much I just stayed on it.
•NAC and EDTA: These seemed to riskiest part of the protocol and I stayed away. NAC also contraindicated from one of my microbiome tests.
Other notes from protocol:
•Any substance that did me good, felt like crap the first day or two. Usually emotional, anxiety, sleep problems. The one substance that seriously did me wrong was Neem. It felt good the first few days, and slowly became a nightmare. I have noticed this pattern with other substances I take. If it feels good right away, usually not a good sign…at least in this microbiome world.
•After the Neem, I did not do anything for a week or two and the insulin results stuck. I didnt need more insulin. That sometimes happens if you take something hormonal. Meaning I would need less insulin while on the hormone (better metabolism?) then after going off would need more insulin again (nope)
•did not try the wormwood, olive leaf, or monolaurin. I have done all three before and they have various effects.
•Yeast seemed to be a problem in two instances. The hand rash and athletes foot. When I do another pass. I may add in a week of oregano oil and caprilic acid.
Confounding Factors:
These factors played a role in all this, but not sure to what extent
•My regular diet in December was meat, potatoes/rice, and a little refried beans each meal
My diet shifted in January to
breakfast: Rice and green beans
Lunch: meat and green beans
Dinner: Rice and green beans/broccoli/cauliflower
So three meals of meat a day down to one. That is a confounding factor that may muddy the results of the protocol itself.
•I have been nebulizing 100mg of glutathione everyday for 1 year +
•I started nicotine patches in November
•In February I started using a heat lamp daily
•I went off thyroid in late Jan/early Feb
•I took Pepcid for a month in Jan
•Stopped taking daily betaine HCL in December
In conclusion:
While this has been very rocky at times, especially with insomnia, it is a massive success.
When I first started the Peat life, I was crashing from too much endurance exercise and job burnout. I was scarfing down ice cream and orange juice like mad.
My insulin needs sky rocketed (50 units of long term insulin a day!) and I gained 50 pounds. That was 5-6 years ago. I have tried a myriad of ways to get my metabolism rolling and lose weight without dieting to no success.
Finally, I am on the path to losing weight, eating as much sugar as I want, and being able to exercise again.
Focusing on shifting the microbiome seems to give permanent results. Ray Peat is right about keeping gut bacteria down...but it's not just an important aspect...it may be the most crucial part of his writings
By tinkering with this protocol, I can assure sleep, energy, and less insulin needs.
In addition, by not taking any substance for longer than a couple weeks, I don't develop tolerance or get bad side effects.
Other than the antibiotics, EDTA, and NAC, this protocol is very low risk. Any mineral/vitamin imbalances you may get from long term use of a substance is not a factor.
I hope you enjoyed this post. I put a lot of work and note taking into this. (full disclosure, if you get value from this post, links above are affiliate).
I will do a podcast on this in a few weeks if you are a better listener then reader, like me. Thanks for reading and big props to Ken for originally creating this
Last edited: