Ilovethesea's Thyroid Log

[ilovethesea]

I do eat a lot of white sugar and fruits... salt not as much since I don't do starches. It's funny, I think I have a low tolerance to salt - it's very easy for me to oversalt things and then find them hard to get down. Saltwater gives me nausea. Not sure why that is.

I think I have "morning-itis" as well. I was having the green can gelatin in my morning coffees lately and as per my nails thread, I tried upping the dose and now realized I don't tolerate it after all. (Ugh, more $$$ down the drain!) I'll try a big dose of sugar first thing when I wake up instead. I didn't realize sugar was antihistamine.

I think the high morning stress is probably also from bad breathing overnight, when I ate something irritating the day before. I recently cut out nightshades and eggs (another two foods bite the dust on my long list of eliminated foods... ) and that seemed to help my nose stay more clear, I also feel better rested.

I took liquid cypro for about a year and love it, just hate the weight gain aspect so that's why I wanted to switch to tianeptine. Also cypro doesn't really cure allergies, it just dries out your airways but for me nostrils were still semi obstructed.

I took some Benadryl in the middle of the day today to fix the gelatin aftermath and when I got home I had to crawl into bed for 2 hours! I hate how sleepy it makes me, and a bit depressed. It's not something I want to take long term, for me cypro is much better. Well cypro also makes me sleepy, but if I take it before bed it seems to give me protection the next day as well.

I didn't have any environmental changes... when I emailed Ray last year to ask about all this stuff he was certain it was food related. I think he's right, it's just annoying that I'm not getting any more tolerant two years in!

 

[tara]

Sounds frustrating. Have you tried a chin strap or tape at night?
Diphenhydramine knocked me out, too. Cypro I liked better too. I got very drowsy the first few times, then got used to it.

 

[ilovethesea]

I bought a nasal dilator and it works pretty well, but usually I rip it out when I lie on my side during sleep as it can hurt. I'm afraid to tape my mouth! I never had any mouthbreathing my whole life, so it's not my natural inclination - it's just since 2 years ago when I found Ray Peat and these food sensitivities all came about, it became stressful to get enough air through a blocked nose. Maybe I always had the food sensitivities but the PUFAs suppressed them. I can't figure it out.

Did you have weight gain on cypro? I'm still unclear on whether it's permanent gain or if it will eventually go away once you correct the underlying hypothyroidism. I read other people say their body composition improved naturally on this diet but that hasn't been the case for me at all.

 

[tara]

I used cypro sporadically for a mth or two. I did have some weight gain during that time, but not sure if it was the cypro or just the trend I was on already before I started it. I've been on a mission the last year to eat to appetite and avoid hunger stress. Sometimes I overeat by mistake (ie beyond appetite). My weight seems to have levelled out since I stopped. Don't know if it would have levelled out a little lower without the cypro.
Have no way of knowing whether my current weight is optimal for me right now or not. It's above the standard BMI 'ideal' but pretty close to the bottom of the trough in the BMI/mortality graphs I've seen. And there're individual variations that make averages a bit meaningless for assessing my individual state.

 

[answersfound]

I think weight gain from cyproheptadine is actually from sodium retention, which is probably a good thing because when hypo you don't hold salt and consequently magnesium very well. I think anti cholinergic meds tend to do this which is part of the reason they are so helpful. I notice when I take cypro I urinate a lot less

 

[tara]

Hyperventilation, even low level chronic unaware hyperventialtion, can cause increased mucous and swollen nasal passages. I used to think I breathed through my mouth because my nose was blocked. Now I believe my nose was blocked because I breathed through my mouth.

You can test this by holding your mouth closed till the air hunger gets a bit uncomfortable a few times in a row, maybe while walking gently (some of the Buteyko folk suggest nodding your head for this exercise), and see if your nose starts to unblock.

I used just a little tape - about 20mm wide down the middle of my mouth (with a bit of butter or other grease on the skin first to stop it ripping my skin off in the morning), and I could still take a breath or even talk around the edges of it when I needed to, but it kept the lips closed when I wasn't actively working them. I was expecting it to be stressful before I tried it, but I figured I could rip the tape off in a second if it got too uncomfortable. It turned out to be really soothing for me. No guarantees it will work for you, but it's a very low-cost non-invasive experiment if you want to try it.

 

[Peata]

I've been using the tape again the last couple nights. I usually get through half the night before i take it off for whatever reason. I woke up this morning with it stuck to my thumb.

As far as weight gain on Cypro, I don't know yet for me personally. I thought it was causing increased appetite in the Fall, but that could have been hormonal appetite increase. I am currently on 8 mg. and the last couple days my appetite has gone up again. It could be hormonal or it could be the Cypro. I will give it a little more time. The good thing is, when I stopped taking it last Fall, the extra weight I gained on it went down.

 

[ilovethesea]

I used cypro sporadically for a mth or two. I did have some weight gain during that time, but not sure if it was the cypro or just the trend I was on already before I started it. I've been on a mission the last year to eat to appetite and avoid hunger stress. Sometimes I overeat by mistake (ie beyond appetite). My weight seems to have levelled out since I stopped. Don't know if it would have levelled out a little lower without the cypro.
Have no way of knowing whether my current weight is optimal for me right now or not. It's above the standard BMI 'ideal' but pretty close to the bottom of the trough in the BMI/mortality graphs I've seen. And there're individual variations that make averages a bit meaningless for assessing my individual state.

Same here, I think I was already gaining from the switch in what I was eating regardless (I was calorie deficient before finding Ray Peat) but that weight has been more stubborn than ever before to lose now. I suspect it is the cypro.

I think I would be ok with the extra 15 lbs (? I don't know, I don't weigh myself) if I wasn't plagued with cellulite on the thighs, which I think has become worse as well in the last 2 years on this diet. Or, maybe it's the weight gain making it look worse. I never got the toned more muscled look others talk about.. just more flab with this extra cellulite.

 

[ilovethesea]

I think weight gain from cyproheptadine is actually from sodium retention, which is probably a good thing because when hypo you don't hold salt and consequently magnesium very well. I think anti cholinergic meds tend to do this which is part of the reason they are so helpful. I notice when I take cypro I urinate a lot less

Interesting. I wonder if I upped my salt (which is my next test) then the weight might go more easily?

My ND used to do this test on me where she measured the water inside and outside my cells. (I have no idea what the device was called.) I always had too much water outside the cells and not enough inside. I wonder if it's related to hypo state and salt/magnesium status.

 

[ilovethesea]

Hyperventilation, even low level chronic unaware hyperventialtion, can cause increased mucous and swollen nasal passages. I used to think I breathed through my mouth because my nose was blocked. Now I believe my nose was blocked because I breathed through my mouth.

You can test this by holding your mouth closed till the air hunger gets a bit uncomfortable a few times in a row, maybe while walking gently (some of the Buteyko folk suggest nodding your head for this exercise), and see if your nose starts to unblock.

I used just a little tape - about 20mm wide down the middle of my mouth (with a bit of butter or other grease on the skin first to stop it ripping my skin off in the morning), and I could still take a breath or even talk around the edges of it when I needed to, but it kept the lips closed when I wasn't actively working them. I was expecting it to be stressful before I tried it, but I figured I could rip the tape off in a second if it got too uncomfortable. It turned out to be really soothing for me. No guarantees it will work for you, but it's a very low-cost non-invasive experiment if you want to try it.

That sounds do-able. What type of tape did you use?

Since I stopped eggs my breathing feels much more comfortable - I didn't realize they were causing problems for the longest time.

Honestly I tried the Buteyko stuff lots of times and it only stopped the nasal drip for a few moments. It makes sense to me in theory but no amount of that head nodding exercise worked for me. I wish it did!

 

[ilovethesea]

I've been using the tape again the last couple nights. I usually get through half the night before i take it off for whatever reason. I woke up this morning with it stuck to my thumb.

As far as weight gain on Cypro, I don't know yet for me personally. I thought it was causing increased appetite in the Fall, but that could have been hormonal appetite increase. I am currently on 8 mg. and the last couple days my appetite has gone up again. It could be hormonal or it could be the Cypro. I will give it a little more time. The good thing is, when I stopped taking it last Fall, the extra weight I gained on it went down.

Haha, well I'll give it a shot. I tried sleeping with my lights the other night and only made it halfway through with those before getting up to yank out the cords. Even still it made my sleep very comfortable and restful.

That's good news re: the cypro. I didn't take as high amounts since I went on the liquid, maybe 2-4mg. Usually 2 mg now. Maybe the weight gain is more related to how much fat I eat. I try to keep it under 20g but it's usually more like 30-40g. Just so hard to find enough things to eat if I am avoiding fat and starches...

 

[tara]

I used a couple of different kinds of thinnish light papery tape, but I don't know what it's called. A 2x3cm piece is enough for me.
After more than a year of using it nearly every night, I got to the point where I'm OK without it most of the time - ie no signs of hyperventilation when I wake up - for the last few months. But I've just been using it again the last few nights because I've got a mild cold that keeps pushing me back to mouth breathing again.

 

[ilovethesea]

I am definitely having a problem with cystic acne now - on chin/jaw area.

I did not have this problem before my last dosage changes. Skin was just fine on the 2 Cytomel + 1.5 Cynoplus that I took all winter, and the many doses I took before that.

Now I'm doing 2 Cynoplus per day and I think the drop in T3 is affecting my skin. (95 mcg --> 60 mcg)

The thing is, I took less T3 before this and my skin looked better. Eg. when I took Erfa, I only got 36 mcg of T3.

Could my skin just be used to the higher T3 level and now I can't go lower without getting acne now? Ugh, if I knew this I never would have increased so high...

 

[ilovethesea]

It won't let me edit the 1st post anymore so here's the latest update...

Before February 2013:
1 grain Erfa + Synthroid 50
= 8mcg T3 + 85mcg T4
= 11:1 ratio

Before I found Ray Peat, this is the dose my ND had me on according to my "perfect" blood work. I had fatigue, premenstrual acne, elevated liver enzymes, irritability, etc.


February 2013 - March 2013:
1 grain Erfa + Synthroid 25
= 8mcg T3 + 60mcg T4
= 7.5:1 ratio

Slowly began to lower T4 since Ray told me most people feel best on a ratio of 4:1, 3:1 or 2:1. On this dose I still had premenstrual acne and felt tired and irritable.


March 2013 - April 2013:
1.5 grains Erfa + Synthroid 25
= 12mcg T3 + 77.5mcg T4
= 6:1 ratio

When I got to this dose my temperatures dropped. Maybe lowering stress hormones?


April 2013 thyroid panel results:
TSH: 0.2
Free T4: 16
Free T3: 5


April 2013 - November 2013:
3 grains Erfa
= 24mcg T3 + 105mcg T4
= 4:1 ratio

Temperatures higher now, but I recall having adrenaline issues. I must have slowly raised this dose from 3 grains to 4.5, but not sure over which months...


November 2013 thyroid panel results:
TSH: 0.01
Free T4: 26
Free T3: 9.5


November 2013 - December 2013:
4.5 grains Erfa
= 36mcg T3 + 157.5mcg T4
= 4:1 ratio

The pharmacy actually called me as they didn't want to fill this prescription. "No one is on 4.5 grains, it's dangerous to take this much thyroid..."


December 2013:
1.5 Cytomel
= 37.5mcg T3

Shortlived T3 only experiment for a couple weeks. I suspected I had an RT3 problem due to severe allergies...


December 2013:
2 grains Erfa + 1 Cytomel
= 41mcg T3 + 70mcg T4
= 2:1 ratio

Then the RT3 test came back normal so I went back to taking T4.


December 2013 - April 2014:
2 Cynoplus
= 60mcg T3 + 240mcg T4
= 4:1 ratio

Then I discovered I was in fact allergic to the Erfa so I switched to all Mexican. Increased pretty high during this time as I got very cold over the winter.


April 2014 - November 2014:
2 Cytomel + .5 Cynoplus
= 65mcg T3 + 60mcg T4
= 1:1 ratio

My nutritionist told me her clients get better results with tiny doses of T3 during the day and T4 at night. I must have increased to 1 Cynoplus in between here, but not sure which month.


November 2014 - March 2015:
2 Cytomel + 1.5 Cynoplus
= 95mcg T3 + 180mcg T4
= 2:1 ratio

I felt like I should try 2:1 since Ray never recommended 1:1. I was a bit warmer on this dose.


March 2015:
2 Cynoplus
= 60mcg T3 + 240mcg T4
= 4:1 ratio

For a few days when I ran out of Cytomel I just took Cynoplus. Started getting a few cystic acne.


March 2015:
1.5 Canadian Cytomel + 1.5 Cynoplus
= 82.5mcg T3 + 180mcg T4
= 2:1 ratio

Since I might run out of Cytomel (my doctor might not prescribe it again so I'll have to arrange a way of getting it in the country from Mexico), I lowered the dose just in case. I started to get much worse cystic acne around the chin/jaw, and cold feet. Wondering if the Canadian Cytomel is not as strong.


March 2015:
2 Canadian Cytomel + 2 Cynoplus
= 95mcg T3 + 180mcg T4
= 2:1 ratio

Went back up to the dose I was on before, but my skin continues to get worse. I can only conclude that the Canadian Cytomel is s***??


March 2015:
2 Cynoplus
= 60mcg T3 + 240mcg T4
= 4:1 ratio

Skin is back to normal now, no more acne. I'm dosing the Cyno in 1/4 pill at a time, so 7.5mcg T3 per dose. Might split further...


March 2015:
1 Canadian Cytomel + 2 Cynoplus
= 85mcg T3 + 240mcg T4
= 3:1 ratio

Giving the Canadian Cytomel another shot but cystic acne coming up again... WTF!

 

[ilovethesea]

So I'm trying the Canadian Cytomel again, on top of the 2 Cynoplus, but I still don't think it's doing anything... am not convinced. I used to feel warmer, even sweaty on occasion, right after I took the Grossman product. I don't get that with the Canadian Cytomel, I feel nothing at all.

Also now I'm getting cystic acne again on the chin/jaw!!!! It's ovulation time so there must be a connection to menstrual cycle, as my skin was clear the last 2 weeks. I had emailed Ray 2 years ago about this type of PMS acne and he said it indicated low thyroid, at least at that time.

What I don't understand is how I never had acne as soon as I started on small doses like 30-40mcg of T3, for the last 2 years.

Yet now, when I'm lowering my T3 dose from 95mcg down to 60mcg (assuming we're not counting the Canadian Cytomel which may be useless) - I get worse breakouts than I ever did. Is it just an adjustment period or have I screwed myself over by permanently increasing my T3 requirements?

I don't really want to add more T4 but I can't tolerate these skin issues much longer, so might have to increase the Cynoplus just to get more T3 (since Grossman Cytomel might be a thing of the past). I suppose it worked for Broda Barnes patients...

 

[tara]

I guess you've considered dietary deficiencies? If you've been keeping your metabolism up for a while, have you also kept up all the minerals and vitamins? Insufficient vit -A ad zinc seem to be recurring themes with skin issues, but there might be others too?

 

[ilovethesea]

I guess you've considered dietary deficiencies? If you've been keeping your metabolism up for a while, have you also kept up all the minerals and vitamins? Insufficient vit -A ad zinc seem to be recurring themes with skin issues, but there might be others too?

I don't think it has to do with vit A or zinc... the lower T3 is the only variable that changed lately.

My A and zinc have been steady... I've been getting 1 tbsp raw beef liver every day or so, and I eat a can of oysters at least once a week. I worry that increasing A any more might backfire and further suppress my thyroid.

 

[ilovethesea]

I've been tapering down my thyroid dose in anticipation of running out of meds if I go through them too quickly before my next Mexican (and Cyprus) orders come. Getting really worried about this crazy worldwide T3 shortage. I dropped 1 Cynoplus so it's

April 2015:
1 Canadian Cytomel + 1 Cynoplus
= 55mcg T3 + 120mcg T4
= 2:1 ratio

So far temperatures seem ok, could also be because I'm sitting under my lights for many hours a day. Acne issue only seems to be a problem between ovulation and menstruation, so I'll possibly just increase dose for that time and not the rest of the month. My skin seems more prone to redness than it was before, but it could be my imagination.

Anyway with summer coming I think I should be ok on the lower dose, if Ray is right about thyroid needs being 4x greater in winter. I hope!

 

[johns74]

Why don't you buy ERFA as a backup for an emergency? I guess no need to hurry because you could do it immediately if you need it?

 

[ilovethesea]

I have a bottle or two of Erfa somewhere... I just don't take it anymore as I was getting allergies from the fillers. But, maybe I am more tolerant now. I guess if I get desperate I could go back to it and just rely on cyproheptadine.

I found out today my Cynoplus order arrived safely in the US from Mexico so I'm happy :) Just need to now get it into Canada.