Pathological Or Physiological Hypothyroidism

HDD

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This is a quote from Edward that has me wondering what type of hypo I have. I had leg cramps as a child, don't tolerate cold, can't pinch my skin on my arm, and various other symptoms thru the years. Since I don't go to the doctor, are the symptoms conclusive to being pathological? The reason I am asking is because of the need to drink coffee, take supplements, etc. to keep temperature up. Would taking medication be superior? Any opinions on this? Edward states that pathological requires thyroid supplementation to regain health.

"Body temperature and pulse are useful tools in determining thyroid function. However, a good lot of the people applying Dr. Peat's research are doing so coming from a low-carbohydrate diet or some other extreme diet, or were exhibiting sub-clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism, etc. In that context temperature and pulse can be somewhat misleading, for example, in the case of a someone transitioning from a carbohydrate restricted diet, their glycogen is so depleted that as soon as carbohydrates enter the body they are used up, even when seemingly large amounts are consumed. The individual will notice that stress comes down but perhaps they feel a little colder which causes a panic, and then they begin the spiral down the "optimizing the thyroid black hole". They start taking niacin, aspirin, thyroid, etc., and many of the other useful substances that are helpful in some circumstances but can be harmful in others. The consumption of carbohydrates during this period often is revealing an overall low metabolic rate hence the low body temperature and pulse. Much like some people who start taking thyroid only to feel worse, so they increase the dose, feel somewhat better, and then feel worse, and increase the dose.

There are two types of hypothyroidism, pathological and physiological, pathological hypothyroidism requires thyroid supplementation to regain health, there is no getting around that. Physiological hypothyroidism does not, that is not to say T3 can't be helpful for those people in certain situations, but long term thyroid supplementation will not be required for good health. In those circumstances what makes body temperature and pulse misleading to a greater extent is that often the person will ingest carbohydrates, feel o.k. for a while, and then suddenly feel extremely warm, not realizing that the warmth is actually a stress response. I described this very basically on this thread: "
(Didn't copy the thread)
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
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Storge of PUFA is the core problem for most people with Hypothyroidism.
Anyone who ingested a good ratio of PUFA for 4+ years will have some
thyroid issue and host of other problems.
Someone with minor thyroid problem can easily fix it with diet and
young people can change things quickly.
Most people got into serious stage by age 35-40.
By this age lots of other things have deteriorated,iron accumulation,
copper depletion, calcification of tissues and arteries etc.
It takes about 4 years to
completely change the Saturated fat and PUFA ratio by changing diet.
If someone avoided PUFA all their life their recovery from thyroid issue will be very quick.
Here is a quote from RP ( bold mine)
It's the stored PUFA, released by stress or hunger, that slow metabolism. Niacinamide helps to lower free fatty
acids, and good nutrition will allow the liver to slowly detoxify the PUFA, if it isn't being flooded with large amounts
of them. A small amount of coconut oil with each meal will increase the ability to oxidize fat, by momentarily
stopping the antithyroid effect of the PUFA. Aspirin is another thing that reduces the stress-related increase of free
fatty acids, stimulating metabolism. Taking a thyroid supplement is reasonable until the ratio of saturated fats to
PUFA is about 2 to 1
.
 

HDD

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So, even with good temperature and heart rate, thyroid would be beneficial while getting rid of stored PUFA? If I am pathological, I would always need medication? Or would that depend on how I am feeling? I believe I read that RP doses thyroid based on how he is feeling. I am not sure about that.

Thank you, Mittir.
 

Mittir

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Temperature and Heart rate are good indicator of metabolism..If someone is otherwise healthy
without thyroid they do not need it. I do not think he is saying thyroid is essential for PUFA removal.
Aspirin, Niacinamide can do that job and diet alone can do the same in most cases.
Unless someone's thyroid is removed surgically or totally destroyed one does not need to
rely on thyroid med all their life. I think when he said he does thyroid based on how is feeling he is referring to T3.
It is short acting. He recommends it for insomnia too. T4 is long acting , it takes about 2-3 weeks to adjust a dose. You really cant change it rapidly depending on how u feel.
RP has health issues from his birth and after 30 years of PUFA avoidance
He does not have PUFA storage problem. His health habits are quite unique to him.
Besides PUFA there are many other factors that blocks thyroid function like
digestive issue, estrogen, poor nutrition, aging etc.
 
J

j.

Guest
Mittir said:
I do not think he is saying thyroid is essential for PUFA removal.
Aspirin, Niacinamide can do that job and diet alone can do the same in most cases.

Aspirin doesn't remove PUFA. It inhibits PUFA removal so that it does less damage, because PUFAs do harm when a lot of it is removed at once.

PUFAs are just removed regularly as the body uses them. One doesn't have to do anything for that.
 

Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
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2,034
@J
we are talking about safe PUFA removal without blocking thyroid and i have quoted RP on that.
I did not write that Aspirin and Niacinamide removes PUFA. I will quote it again

It's the stored PUFA, released by stress or hunger, that slow metabolism. Niacinamide helps to lower free fatty
acids, and good nutrition will allow the liver to slowly detoxify the PUFA, if it isn't being flooded with large amounts
of them. A small amount of coconut oil with each meal will increase the ability to oxidize fat, by momentarily
stopping the antithyroid effect of the PUFA. Aspirin is another thing that reduces the stress-related increase of free
fatty acids, stimulating metabolism. Taking a thyroid supplement is reasonable until the ratio of saturated fats to
PUFA is about 2 to 1.
 
J

j.

Guest
Well, I thought you wrote that aspirin and niacinamide were essential for PUFA removal. It sounded like those things remove PUFA, when they in fact oppose removal.
 

jaguar43

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Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
1,310
Haagendazendiane said:
This is a quote from Edward that has me wondering what type of hypo I have. I had leg cramps as a child, don't tolerate cold, can't pinch my skin on my arm, and various other symptoms thru the years. Since I don't go to the doctor, are the symptoms conclusive to being pathological? The reason I am asking is because of the need to drink coffee, take supplements, etc. to keep temperature up. Would taking medication be superior? Any opinions on this? Edward states that pathological requires thyroid supplementation to regain health.

"Body temperature and pulse are useful tools in determining thyroid function. However, a good lot of the people applying Dr. Peat's research are doing so coming from a low-carbohydrate diet or some other extreme diet, or were exhibiting sub-clinical symptoms of hypothyroidism, etc. In that context temperature and pulse can be somewhat misleading, for example, in the case of a someone transitioning from a carbohydrate restricted diet, their glycogen is so depleted that as soon as carbohydrates enter the body they are used up, even when seemingly large amounts are consumed. The individual will notice that stress comes down but perhaps they feel a little colder which causes a panic, and then they begin the spiral down the "optimizing the thyroid black hole". They start taking niacin, aspirin, thyroid, etc., and many of the other useful substances that are helpful in some circumstances but can be harmful in others. The consumption of carbohydrates during this period often is revealing an overall low metabolic rate hence the low body temperature and pulse. Much like some people who start taking thyroid only to feel worse, so they increase the dose, feel somewhat better, and then feel worse, and increase the dose.

There are two types of hypothyroidism, pathological and physiological, pathological hypothyroidism requires thyroid supplementation to regain health, there is no getting around that. Physiological hypothyroidism does not, that is not to say T3 can't be helpful for those people in certain situations, but long term thyroid supplementation will not be required for good health. In those circumstances what makes body temperature and pulse misleading to a greater extent is that often the person will ingest carbohydrates, feel o.k. for a while, and then suddenly feel extremely warm, not realizing that the warmth is actually a stress response. I described this very basically on this thread: "
(Didn't copy the thread)

Ray Peat says something similar but more clear. He uses the word hormonal imprinting and genomic imprinting. Both of these imprinting I would believe are in need of thyroid medication. People with good "imprinting" usually do not tolerate thyroid well. They are sensitive to thyroid medication, but I am not saying that they couldn't be hypothyroid in the future.

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/imprinting.shtml

Can you link me the quote, thanks
 

marcar72

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Location
Tucson, AZ
Well the way I read it is that anyone can get pretty immediate results supplementing with all that stuff. They can get the pulse and temperature up no problem supplementing. That doesn't mean that they need or should be supplementing. In fact supplementing might backfire on down the road. On the other hand everyone should be trying their best to stay within the dietary guidelines that Ray Peat has espoused. For most people, following the dietary guidelines will eventually and more so as time goes by improve the metabolic rate to the desired level. It's easy to get too narrowed in on the ideal temp/pulse and expect oneself to be there in the course of a few weeks. I think it's best to be in tune with how one feels overall and in comparison to how one might have felt in the past. That's the best barometer I think.
 
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