Incurable hypothyroidism? Almost total resistance to T3? What to do?

[PeskyPeater]

Classically, TSH-omas were diagnosed at the stage of invasive macroadenoma and were considered difficult to cure. However, the advent of ultrasensitive immunometric assays, routinely performed as first line test of thyroid function, has greatly improved the diagnostic workup of hyperthyroid patients, allowing the recognition of the cases with unsuppressed TSH secretion. Therefore, TSH-omas are now more often diagnosed at an earlier stage, before they become a macroadenoma, and an increased number of patients with normal or elevated TSH levels in the presence of high free thyroid hormone concentrations have been recognized. Signs and symptoms of hyperthyroidism along with values of thyroid function tests similar to those found in TSH-oma may be recorded also among patients affected with resistance to thyroid hormones (5-7).

 

[watermark]

Ray Peat’s principles are still new to me, but as far as I can tell you are following them pretty well. Perhaps, it is not a dietary or supplement situation?
How is your EMF and blue light exposure? Thyroid hormones are regulated by the circadian system and If your circadian signaling to light and darkness is off, that may present a problem. Something to consider.

 

[gd81]

So we're in a trap [we the person who have "T3 resistance"]: if we increase the dose of T3, the liver reacts and our hypothyroidism deepens;
if we increase the dose of NDT, there will be an increase in T3-reverse which blocks the thyroid... Catch-22!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems so. I have no real idea other than the suggestions I posted about what this resistance is or how to approach it but there is obviously something else at playing interfering with it all. I think it's just a matter of experimenting, I'm confident there is a solution.

 

[LLight]

Have you tried limiting your fluid intake to a minimum?
I believe it could potentially help.

 

[yerrag]

When you take T3, other than looking at pulse and temps, are you seeing lower triglycerides or lower cholesterol?

At the very least, triglycerides should improve as T3 helps in lowering blood sugar especially after a meal, and lower blood sugar means there is less blood sugar needing to be converted by the liver to fatty acids by insulin signaling.

And is cholesterol going down from T3 intake? T3 is needed to convert cholesterol to pregnenolone. If cholesterol doesn't budge, then there are other blocks needing to be cleared that T3 alone cannot address.

One recent podcast of Mercola on Morley Robbins discussed the importance of copper. Cytochrome oxidase is a copper enzyme needed for mitochondrial respiration.

It is something to check by way of testing serum ceruloplasmin. Copper may be key, but there are still many other factors to conside, being that there are many handoffs in this chain that together makes for optimal mitochondrial respiration.

The Most Important Stealth Factor to Improve Your Health - Discussion Between Morley Robbins & Dr. Mercola - Dr. Joseph Mercola - Take Control of Your Health | iHeart

<p>In this interview, Dr. Mercola interviews Morley Robbins, MBA, CHC. Morley is founder of the Magnesium Advocacy Group and best known as the Magnesium Man, has also written a book called “<a href='https://www.amazon.com/Cu-RE-Your-Fatigue-Root-Cause/dp/1662910282' target='_blank'...

www.iheart.com

 

[mostlylurking]

But my hypothyroidism does not change. A pulse of 70 and a temperature of 36 C is common. And it doesn't matter if I use thyroid. It doesn't change.

Hi there. I have a few thoughts and I've been in a similar situation. In 2020, I was taking 3 grains (180mg) of prescription desiccated thyroid and was doing pretty well. Then I took prescription Bactrim antibiotic which blocked my thiamine function (but it took a few months to figure that out). Suddenly I had severe hypothyroid symptoms; couldn't get my temperature above 96.8 degrees, cold, brain fog, high inflammation. I got my thyroid blood work done 2 months early because I thought I had a bad batch of medication. The test results showed my T3 was dangerously high at the same time that I had severe hypothyroid symptoms. My endo lowered my dose of thyroid med.

I decided to try some thiamine hcl (about 300mg) because I remembered that Haidut had said that thiamine lowers lactic acid. Within 45 minutes, my body temperature went up a full degree to 98.6 and all my pain disappeared. That's how I figured out I had a thiamine problem.

Here's a collection of Ray Peat quotes about thiamine:

Ray Peat On Vitamin B1 - Thiamine - LifeGivingStore.com

Ray Peat has written on the importance of Vitamin B1 also known as Thiamine. Here we will gather quotes from Ray Peat about the incredible power of Thiamine

lifegivingstore.com

If I try to increase the dose of thyroid grains [Cynoplus], if I try to go from 2 grains a day to 3, for example, T3-reverse goes up to very high levels.

In other words, a vicious circle is going on, where increasing NDT has a harmful effect and using T3 does not change temperature or pulse [even using Tironene megadose or more than 25 mcg of T3, Cynomel...]. The same thing happens if I try to boost the entry of T3 into cells while using B3 or AAS with T3. Nothing happens. Any ideas?

I did not get my reverse T3 tested that time so I don't know what it was. But my free T3 was through the roof but I got no benefit from it. Apparently, a thiamine deficiency/functional blockage wreaks havoc with thyroid hormones working. Also, too much T3 causes/worsens a thiamine deficiency. They need to be in sync.

Of course I have a huge problem: a chronic pancreatitis.

If you search for "chronic pancreatitis and thiamine" interesting articles appear:

Pancreatic Physiology/Pathophysiology: Proinflammatory cytokines inhibit thiamin uptake by human and mouse pancreatic acinar cells: involvement of transcriptional mechanism(s)

Thiamin (vitamin B1) plays critical roles in normal metabolism and function of all mammalian cells. Pancreatic acinar cells (PACs) import thiamin from circulation via specific carrier-mediated uptake that involves thiamin transporter-1 and -2 (THTR-1 ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

and

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/361693332_Wernicke_encephalopathy_after_chronic_pancreatitis_exacerbation_Case_report

One question: why to take too much T3 make someone more hypothiroid?

Too much T3 can exacerbate a thiamine deficiency which will feel like being more hypothyroid.

 

[mostlylurking]

Good point. Good idea to research. The problem is: twice or three times by year I must to do a cycle of two weeks of doxycicline against my chronic pancreatitis. I can´t avoid it [actually I don´t know what to do against that illness] so I´m using lidocaine, doxycicline, AAS. I use baking soda ant the raw kale leaf tea, always, to put down the oxalate.

Another thing, searching for "doxycycline and thiamine" led to this one:

Drug Interactions Checker - Check Your Brand and Generic Drugs - RxList

Check for drug interactions and learn what drug combinations to avoid with the RxList drug interaction checker tool.

www.rxlist.com

So there might be something about doxycycline that maybe could exacerbate a thiamine deficiency?

also this: Vibramycin, Doryx (doxycycline) dosing, indications, interactions, adverse effects, and more

• doxycycline + thiamine​

  doxycycline will decrease the level or effect of thiamine by altering intestinal flora. Applies only to oral form of both agents. Minor/Significance Unknown.

A lot of things can cause problems with thiamine. For me, I think that my primary issue with thiamine is caused by heavy metals toxicity; the Bactrim debacle simply exacerbated a long term issue that was unknown to me.

 

[yerrag]

Another thing, searching for "doxycycline and thiamine" led to this one:

Drug Interactions Checker - Check Your Brand and Generic Drugs - RxList

Check for drug interactions and learn what drug combinations to avoid with the RxList drug interaction checker tool.

www.rxlist.com

So there might be something about doxycycline that maybe could exacerbate a thiamine deficiency?

also this: Vibramycin, Doryx (doxycycline) dosing, indications, interactions, adverse effects, and more

• doxycycline + thiamine​

  doxycycline will decrease the level or effect of thiamine by altering intestinal flora. Applies only to oral form of both agents. Minor/Significance Unknown.

A lot of things can cause problems with thiamine. For me, I think that my primary issue with thiamine is caused by heavy metals toxicity; the Bactrim debacle simply exacerbated a long term issue that was unknown to me.

Thiamine is a strong possibility.

I think that if after taking T3, triglyceride doesn't budge, it further strengthens the case for thiamine deficiency.

 

[oxphoser]

one easy way to do it is grind a cynomel tablet into powder with a pill crusher. You can then divide the powder into twenty little piles with a razor blade and take the powder and that will give you 1 mcg.


Ray has said if you take too much at once the body will detect it as an abnormality and create enzymes to destroy all the thyroid in your liver, so you become more hypo. I don't know if there are other mechanisms.

He said he's seen results from as little as 1mcg of t3 all the way up to 500mg of armour thyroid, so that's a massive range of dosing possibilities to consider.

To get 1 mcg T3, I crush a 25 mcg T3 tablet in a small container with 25 teaspoons of water. If you need 1 mcg, open container, stir it, take 1 teaspoon.

 

[PeskyPeater]

Curcumin 95 with piperine for pancreatitis

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpgi.00138.2002

 

[gilson d dantas]

Ray Peat’s principles are still new to me, but as far as I can tell you are following them pretty well. Perhaps, it is not a dietary or supplement situation?
How is your EMF and blue light exposure? Thyroid hormones are regulated by the circadian system and If your circadian signaling to light and darkness is off, that may present a problem. Something to consider.

EMF?

 

[gilson d dantas]

To get 1 mcg T3, I crush a 25 mcg T3 tablet in a small container with 25 teaspoons of water. If you need 1 mcg, open container, stir it, take 1 teaspoon.

T3 is water soluble?

 

[IT'S OVER]

Irmão sou brasileiro quenem você, ouça o que lhe digo, faça um dieta baixa em amido mas rica em gordura e carboidratos, sua saúde vai melhorar ao longo de um mês dois, se tiver que usar amido, use arroz parbolizado

man como assim? gordura e carboidratos? comer açucar no lugar de gordura vc diz?

 

[oxphoser]

T3 is water soluble?

Not technically, no; they're lipophilic. But if you crush up a T3 pill and put it in water, the binders dissolve and you have the T3 floating in the water pretty much invisibly. That’s why I say stir it before getting a teaspoon.

 

[watermark]

EMF?

Google to explore the effects of electromagnetic radiation on thyroid.

 

[gilson d dantas]

man como assim? gordura e carboidratos? comer açucar no lugar de gordura vc diz?

Roni, please ask again; I did not undestand your question>
[Roni, pergunte de novo. não entendi sua dúvida]

 

[gilson d dantas]

Curcumin 95 with piperine for pancreatitis

https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpgi.00138.2002

Very good, I´ll see it! Gracias!

 

[PeskyPeater]

Very good, I´ll see it! Gracias!

yeah, curcumin is good stuff. Dr Peat said it's an carbonic anhydrase inhibitor similar like what thyroid does. So it could help improving CO2.
And the curcumin reduces the conversion of pregnenolone and progesteron into aldosterone and cortisol and also reduces conversion to estrogen.
Bioactivity of Curcumin on the Cytochrome P450 Enzymes of the Steroidogenic Pathway - PubMed

 

[methylenewhite]

and I use daily raw kale leaf tea]

Kale is goitrogenic

 

[Osteo]

I'm in the same boat.. I can take huge amounts of T3 and it does nothing to my pulse or temps...
I does give me insomnia though...

I already tried thiamine with other B vitamins but it did not work.

Gilson, did you try Thiamine? Any improvements?