Incurable hypothyroidism? Almost total resistance to T3? What to do?

A

Adf

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Yes, OK.
The problem is that I'm on a good diet, strictly based on the teachings of R Peat for more than five years; and it didn't improve the effect of NDT or T3 on my body. So time is not on my side.
There must be some trick, some substance [besides PUFAs] blocking the use of T3 in my body, as Blossom suggested; something I didn't yet think about.

Have you tried either nascent or lugols iodine?
 

Lollipop2

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Euthyroid sick syndrome is usually seen in acute and chronic diseases such as pancreatitis. If you do not have thyroid antibodies, taking Selenium, Taurine, NAC, etc. and bile acids receptor agonists (UDCA and TUDCA) can help increase the conversion of T4 to T3.
@gilson d dantas nice to see you again. Did you see this post? I wonder if this could help you?
 

Bluebell

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This has been my clinical case for five years. It doesn't matter if I use T3 orally [Cynomel] or transdermally [Tyronene] I don't see any immediate results. Pulse and temperature do not change. I've been practicing a diet based entirely on Ray Peat's principles for five years and studying his texts to improve my diet.

But my hypothyroidism does not change. A pulse of 70 and a temperature of 36 C is common. And it doesn't matter if I use thyroid. It doesn't change.

If I try to increase the dose of thyroid grains [Cynoplus], if I try to go from 2 grains a day to 3, for example, T3-reverse goes up to very high levels.

In other words, a vicious circle is going on, where increasing NDT has a harmful effect and using T3 does not change temperature or pulse [even using Tironene megadose or more than 25 mcg of T3, Cynomel...]. The same thing happens if I try to boost the entry of T3 into cells while using B3 or AAS with T3. Nothing happens. Any ideas?
Would be good to know your lab values and ranges for TSH, T3, T4, and TPO antibodies.

You could research selenium supplementation to help with the Reverse T3.

This series of articles could be interesting for you:

It's difficult to quantify, but it could be that the other supplements/meds you are taking are making it hard for your body to respond to the thyroid supplementation.
 
Last edited:

AspiringSage

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I suggest reading up on the effects of androsterone, testosterone, DHT and other androgens on thyroid hormones. In a sense, they mimic the effect of thyroid hormones by changing intercellular bio availably, circulating levels or gene expression.

Haidut does a better job of explaining the mechanisms of action than I could. Here is a handy link from back in 2017 to a couple of studies. There have been a number of discussions of this topic since then.

“…androsterone and other androgens is a true thyromimietic by increasing availability of the thyroid hormone at the transcriptional level, in a manner directly opposing that of thiouracil. On the other hand, estrogen has an effect similar to thiouracil and inhibits thyroid function/effects resulting in increase in cholesterol levels.”

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/the-thyromimetic-mechanism-of-androsterone-and-other-androgens.14593/
 

PeskyPeater

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Goodday!

What is your diet exactly, did you change it much from then til now?
What did dr Peat say about this condition. did you mail him?
 
OP
gilson d dantas
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I suggest reading up on the effects of androsterone, testosterone, DHT and other androgens on thyroid hormones. In a sense, they mimic the effect of thyroid hormones by changing intercellular bio availably, circulating levels or gene expression.

Haidut does a better job of explaining the mechanisms of action than I could. Here is a handy link from back in 2017 to a couple of studies. There have been a number of discussions of this topic since then.

“…androsterone and other androgens is a true thyromimietic by increasing availability of the thyroid hormone at the transcriptional level, in a manner directly opposing that of thiouracil. On the other hand, estrogen has an effect similar to thiouracil and inhibits thyroid function/effects resulting in increase in cholesterol levels.”

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/the-thyromimetic-mechanism-of-androsterone-and-other-androgens.14593/
OK, I´ll see it. Thank you.
But you are triyng to say that if one androgen is low I can´t heal my hipothyroidism?
 
OP
gilson d dantas
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Goodday!

What is your diet exactly, did you change it much from then til now?
What did dr Peat say about this condition. did you mail him?
My diet strictly follows the principles scientifically taught by R Peat: zero cereal, zero starch, zero seeds, zero salad except carrots; sweet orange juice, milk, cheese, oxtail, liver, sea fish, egg yolks; animal gelatin; zero alcohol; zero fermented foods; I also avoid fruit pectin, fruit fiber, I prefer strained orange juice; lots of sugar, bee honey; etc.
And I still haven't written to R Peat ; I don't remember seeing him talk about "T3 resistance" and I think my problem might be the excess of PUFAs in my body, consequence of the diet from five years ago. And furthermore, when I take T3 with AAS or with B3 [to inhibit the circulation of PUFA]s, nothing happens to the pulse; the body does not recognize T3.
 
OP
gilson d dantas
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Would be good to know your lab values and ranges for TSH, T3, T4, and TPO antibodies.

You could research selenium supplementation to help with the Reverse T3.

This series of articles could be interesting for you:

It's difficult to quantify, but it could be that the other supplements/meds you are taking are making it hard for your body to respond to the thyroid supplementation.
Thank you bluebell!! I´ll read the article!!
My TSH is zero, always, and antiTPO normal; and T3, T4 always oscilating, but at the normal ranges [these two, as you know, are no reliable exams].
 

gd81

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Maybe addressing thyroid directly doesn't work for a lot of people to get their metabolism up, like addressing dopamine directly often doesn't work to treat depression and you have to address it indirectly. I can only speculate why this is.

Some suggestions:

-You could try lowering estrogen, a known inhibitor of thyroid. Big doses of vitamin K seem like the safest way to do it. I think high estrogen is probably very common

-You could try lowering serotonin

-You could try decent doses of taurine, that seems to be very pro metabolic

-You could try lisuride, this has been a game changer for a lot of people

-You could try taking pregnenolone with the thyroid, I've heard Ray recommending that to people

-Have you tried taking just a very small amount of t3, like 1 or 2 micrograms? It seems very easy to take too much and make yourself more hypothyroid

Here is an article by Danny Roddy which provides some more suggestions in the troubleshooting section. Here is a video with him and others discussing problems with thyroid not working.
 
OP
gilson d dantas
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Maybe addressing thyroid directly doesn't work for a lot of people to get their metabolism up, like addressing dopamine directly often doesn't work to treat depression and you have to address it indirectly. I can only speculate why this is.

Some suggestions:

-You could try lowering estrogen, a known inhibitor of thyroid. Big doses of vitamin K seem like the safest way to do it. I think high estrogen is probably very common

-You could try lowering serotonin

-You could try decent doses of taurine, that seems to be very pro metabolic

-You could try lisuride, this has been a game changer for a lot of people

-You could try taking pregnenolone with the thyroid, I've heard Ray recommending that to people

-Have you tried taking just a very small amount of t3, like 1 or 2 micrograms? It seems very easy to take too much and make yourself more hypothyroid

Here is an article by Danny Roddy which provides some more suggestions in the troubleshooting section. Here is a video with him and others discussing problems with thyroid not working.
Very good ideas!!
I saw the Danny R article; he says that the problems when thyroid therapy doesn t work are:
Vitamin D deficiency A diet deficient in protein or B vitamins A diet deficient in calcium and excessive in phosphate A diet deficient in carbohydrate A diet deficient in calories Ruminant liver-avoidance Oyster-avoidance Infection, which is more common in hypothyroid people Cholesterol deficiency (requires a lab test).
The problem is: I ´am not in any of these! I don't fit into any of these items. Of course I have a huge problem: a chronic pancreatitis. I use Proges-E trying to low estrogen [I did´t used high dose vitamin K. I can try pregnenolone with thyroid but I used AAS and B3 with thyroid with no effects at all.
It is VERY DIFFICULT to use 1 mcg of T3, it is a microscopic piece!
One question: why to take too much T3 make someone more hypothiroid?

And yes, I´m triyng anti serotonin drugs [lisuride for instance]. I´m using now lisuride. I used cetotifen.
 

gd81

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It is VERY DIFFICULT to use 1 mcg of T3, it is a microscopic piece!

one easy way to do it is grind a cynomel tablet into powder with a pill crusher. You can then divide the powder into twenty little piles with a razor blade and take the powder and that will give you 1 mcg.

One question: why to take too much T3 make someone more hypothiroid?
Ray has said if you take too much at once the body will detect it as an abnormality and create enzymes to destroy all the thyroid in your liver, so you become more hypo. I don't know if there are other mechanisms.

He said he's seen results from as little as 1mcg of t3 all the way up to 500mg of armour thyroid, so that's a massive range of dosing possibilities to consider.
 
OP
gilson d dantas
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one easy way to do it is grind a cynomel tablet into powder with a pill crusher. You can then divide the powder into twenty little piles with a razor blade and take the powder and that will give you 1 mcg.


Ray has said if you take too much at once the body will detect it as an abnormality and create enzymes to destroy all the thyroid in your liver, so you become more hypo. I don't know if there are other mechanisms.

He said he's seen results from as little as 1mcg of t3 all the way up to 500mg of armour thyroid, so that's a massive range of dosing possibilities to consider.
So we're in a trap [we the person who have "T3 resistance"]: if we increase the dose of T3, the liver reacts and our hypothyroidism deepens;
if we increase the dose of NDT, there will be an increase in T3-reverse which blocks the thyroid... Catch-22!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

PeskyPeater

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Sorry. I don´t get it. Cannot understand the mechanism
oke maybe this clears thing up:
Thyrotropin-Secreting Pituitary Adenomas - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf
Thyrotropin (TSH)-secreting pituitary adenomas (TSH-omas) are a rare cause of hyperthyroidism. In this situation, TSH secretion is autonomous and refractory to the negative feedback of thyroid hormones (inappropriate TSH secretion) and TSH itself is responsible for the hyperstimulation of the thyroid gland and the consequent hypersecretion of T4 and T3 (1, 2). Therefore, this entity can be appropriately classified as a form of "central hyperthyroidism". The first case of TSH-oma was documented in 1960 by measuring serum TSH levels with a bioassay (3). In 1970, Hamilton et al. (4) reported the first case of TSH-oma proved by measuring TSH by RIA.
 

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