Is TSH Suppression The Key To Healing The Thyroid?

[Collden]

"Just as excessive FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) has been shown to have a role in ovarian cancer, excessive stimulation by TSH produces disorganization in the thyroid gland." - Ray Peat

Just thinking out loud here. Its well known that TSH and thyroid hormone levels decrease during the summer months and in general thyroid gland activity is inversely correlated with ambient temperature. Thyroid cancer incidence is higher in colder climates, suggesting a link between higher TSH/gland activity and cancer. Studies also show that mildly elevated TSH even with normal circulating T4/T3 levels is predictive of progression to overt hypothyroidism. Could it be that gradual deterioration of the thyroid gland is due to chronic overstimulation by TSH? Its known that organs such as the pancreas, liver, kidneys, etc deteriorate and ultimately fail when they are forced to work excessively hard for prolonged periods. Is the same true of the thyroid gland?

If true, could this then mean that temporary thyroid hormone supplementation can allow the thyroid to regenerate by suppressing TSH and giving the thyroid a rest? Anecdotally, some people have used thyroid temporarily to recover from hypothyroid states and then found that they didn't need the supplementation anymore. In such cases, it either means their thyroid was never damaged to begin with, or - that the temporary respite from constantly churning out thyroid hormones permitted by the exogenous supplementation, allowed their glands to heal.

 

[Lucas]

I am interested in this, as I have elevated TSH but my thyroid is intact, without Hasshimoto. My TSH is 6, with low Free T4 and high Free T3 . I should then take thyroid hormones, suppress my TSH and maybe after about 6 months try to withdraw the medication. Would it be this?

 

[Inaut]

I was talking with a friend who has extremely low T/vitiligo and had some blood work done. I asked him to tell me his TSH as I was quite sure his TSH would be quite high... To my amazement, his TSH was 0.83 which is quite low considering. I ate my tie because I thought it would have been clear indication.

 

[Collden]

I am interested in this, as I have elevated TSH but my thyroid is intact, without Hasshimoto. My TSH is 6, with low Free T4 and high Free T3 . I should then take thyroid hormones, suppress my TSH and maybe after about 6 months try to withdraw the medication. Would it be this?

I'm in a similar situation, if you've ruled out lifestyle factors like stress, excessive exercising, cold environment, etc, I'd think it is best to find some type of thyroid treatment that can bring your TSH down. Even a TSH above 2 increases the risk of becoming hypothyroid later on.

 

[marsaday]

I was talking with a friend who has extremely low T/vitiligo and had some blood work done. I asked him to tell me his TSH as I was quite sure his TSH would be quite high... To my amazement, his TSH was 0.83 which is quite low considering. I ate my tie because I thought it would have been clear indication.

Ask him what other brain signalling markers are like. He could have low T due to poor brain signalling (secondary hypo pit). If LH or FSH were low this might indicate a brain issue.

 

[Collden]

I was talking with a friend who has extremely low T/vitiligo and had some blood work done. I asked him to tell me his TSH as I was quite sure his TSH would be quite high... To my amazement, his TSH was 0.83 which is quite low considering. I ate my tie because I thought it would have been clear indication.

Hah... In my understanding, while elevated TSH always indicates a problem with the thyroid, there are many ways one can be hypothyroid with normal TSH. Several drugs suppress TSH, and also things like food restriction will decrease thyroid hormones without altering TSH. A person could also have good thyroid function with low T if his cholesterol is low, like say due to a low-fat, high-fiber diet.

 

[mrchibbs]

I don't think so, because T4 supplementation is enough to suppress the TSH even if it doesn't get converted to T3 optimally. Ray has mentioned that the TSH itself is inflammatory so suppressing it with thyroxine does bring some relief, but it doesn't come close to the full therapeutic value of proper NDT or T3/T4 thyroid supplementation.

Moreover, too much T4 alone in a person who under stress and can't convert it properly can lead to a backlog of T4 and rT3, which can cause problems for a long time.

 

[Lucas]

I'm in a similar situation, if you've ruled out lifestyle factors like stress, excessive exercising, cold environment, etc, I'd think it is best to find some type of thyroid treatment that can bring your TSH down. Even a TSH above 2 increases the risk of becoming hypothyroid later on.

Well with the quarentine I found that is not stress or exercisie related. From the SPINA thy software I am a good coverter. It looks that I am not producing enougth T4

 

[Beastmode]

I was talking with a friend who has extremely low T/vitiligo and had some blood work done. I asked him to tell me his TSH as I was quite sure his TSH would be quite high... To my amazement, his TSH was 0.83 which is quite low considering. I ate my tie because I thought it would have been clear indication.

Hasn't Peat said in interviews that TSH is better low, but it's important to check other factors as stress hormones, etc can lower it?

My wife's was around that and her stress hormones were through the roof. She also had a waking body temp of 98.4-98.8 and HR over 85. Those always went down after breakfast which was our indicator that her how TSH wasn't being driven by a desirable factors.

 

[Collden]

I don't think so, because T4 supplementation is enough to suppress the TSH even if it doesn't get converted to T3 optimally. Ray has mentioned that the TSH itself is inflammatory so suppressing it with thyroxine does bring some relief, but it doesn't come close to the full therapeutic value of proper NDT or T3/T4 thyroid supplementation.

Moreover, too much T4 alone in a person who under stress and can't convert it properly can lead to a backlog of T4 and rT3, which can cause problems for a long time.

Thats a good point, being profoundly hypothyroid would itself impair any healing process, so treatment should ideally both bring down TSH and maintain good levels of active thyroid hormones.

If TSH was the main driver of progressive thyroid gland deterioration, it would however explain why people with only subclinical hypothyroidism - ie who are still maintaining normal circulating T3 levels, usually will progress to more severe states of hypothyroidism anyway, and also why its so difficult to reverse the process once started. With a healthy thyroid gland, the amount of work it has to do roughly matches its ability to recover, and normal thyroid activity can be maintained indefinitely without support. When there is damage however, the initial deficit sets in motion a downward spiral whereby the thyroid has to work harder than usual to maintain normal levels, which over time causes more deterioration, which results in the increasingly impaired gland having to work even harder to maintain adequate thyroid levels. The only way to break the cycle then is by lowering the requirement for endogenous thyroid hormones - either by greatly reducing environmental stress, or by supplementing exogenous hormones.

I think it would also explain why a common conception about healing hypothyroidism - that its mainly about raising hormones - is flawed. There are a lot of things that will raise your thyroid hormones and yet not do much to address the underlying hypothyroid condition. This idea is what led many to think that hypothyroidism could be cured by prolonged overfeeding for instance, which many now have found not to be true. Overfeeding could conceivably actually put even more strain on the thyroid as it increases production of thyroid hormones in an effort to burn off the excess calories.

 

[Lucas]

Thats a good point, being profoundly hypothyroid would itself impair any healing process, so treatment should ideally both bring down TSH and maintain good levels of active thyroid hormones.

If TSH was the main driver of progressive thyroid gland deterioration, it would however explain why people with only subclinical hypothyroidism - ie who are still maintaining normal circulating T3 levels, usually will progress to more severe states of hypothyroidism anyway, and also why its so difficult to reverse the process once started. With a healthy thyroid gland, the amount of work it has to do roughly matches its ability to recover, and normal thyroid activity can be maintained indefinitely without support. When there is damage however, the initial deficit sets in motion a downward spiral whereby the thyroid has to work harder than usual to maintain normal levels, which over time causes more deterioration, which results in the increasingly impaired gland having to work even harder to maintain adequate thyroid levels. The only way to break the cycle then is by lowering the requirement for endogenous thyroid hormones - either by greatly reducing environmental stress, or by supplementing exogenous hormones.

I think it would also explain why a common conception about healing hypothyroidism - that its mainly about raising hormones - is flawed. There are a lot of things that will raise your thyroid hormones and yet not do much to address the underlying hypothyroid condition. This idea is what led many to think that hypothyroidism could be cured by prolonged overfeeding for instance, which many now have found not to be true. Overfeeding could conceivably actually put even more strain on the thyroid as it increases production of thyroid hormones in an effort to burn off the excess calories.

Good point. All the sugar in the world do nothing to increase my temperature

 

[Hans]

I am interested in this, as I have elevated TSH but my thyroid is intact, without Hasshimoto. My TSH is 6, with low Free T4 and high Free T3 . I should then take thyroid hormones, suppress my TSH and maybe after about 6 months try to withdraw the medication. Would it be this?

rT3 and adrenaline inhibit the action of T3. You also want to know your total T3, not just the free T3.
So lowering the stress metabolism and increasing CO2 can help restore the actions of T3.

 

[Hans]

Good point. All the sugar in the world do nothing to increase my temperature

Sure isn't very warming in general.
A nice ox tail bone broth with potato, salt and spice (some chilli maybe) should increase temps nicely.

 

[mrchibbs]

Sure isn't very warming in general.
A nice ox tail bone broth with potato, salt and spice (some chilli maybe) should increase temps nicely.

It maybe why traditional oxtail stew recipes from Jamaica or Africa include some very hot chilis typically.

 

[Hans]

It maybe why traditional oxtail stew recipes from Jamaica or Africa include some very hot chilis typically.

Maybe they just like sweating lol. It seems generally hot in Jamacia so I don't know why they want additional chilies.

 

[mrchibbs]

Maybe they just like sweating lol. It seems generally hot in Jamacia so I don't know why they want additional chilies.

I can tell you the spiciest food I've ever eaten in my life is either from Jamaica or Africa for some reason. I had friends from Mali and other surrounding countries and the amount of spice made me feel like dying haha

I made a traditional oxtail stew with hot chilis last and it was brutal, and I like spice!

 

[Hans]

I can tell you the spiciest food I've ever eaten in my life is either from Jamaica or Africa for some reason. I had friends from Mali and other surrounding countries and the amount of spice made me feel like dying haha

I made a traditional oxtail stew with hot chilis last and it was brutal, and I like spice!

Me too. I find that it aids in digestion.

 

[Lucas]

rT3 and adrenaline inhibit the action of T3. You also want to know your total T3, not just the free T3.
So lowering the stress metabolism and increasing CO2 can help restore the actions of T3.

The best way to lower adrenaline is taking Cypro?

 

[Jennifer]

Hasn't Peat said in interviews that TSH is better low, but it's important to check other factors as stress hormones, etc can lower it?

Yep! I just saw this quote from an email exchange that Zpol posted in the Vitamin D and Parathyroid Hormone thread:

Dr. RP: "Getting your vitamin D up to 50 or 60 ng/ml might take care of it, but tissue atrophy usually involves a low ratio of pregnenolone and DHEA to cortisol and estrogen. Stress hormones lower TSH, so it isn’t a reliable indicator of thyroid status; sometimes a thyroid supplement will correct the steroid ratio."

Vitamin D And Parathyroid Hormone

 

[Hans]

The best way to lower adrenaline is taking Cypro?

The PEMT enzyme stimulate the conversion of noradrenaline to adrenaline and the PEMT enzyme is stimulated by CRH, ACTH and cortisol.

So stress management through diet (protein, carbs, total calories, salt, calcium, vit D, magnesium, zinc, etc, etc), lifestyle and perspective adjustments will help to lower adrenaline.