yea, it is annoying it would be nice to eventually have some data
this correlates with my experience because if I just drink brewed beverages with sugar, its obvious and I can always tell usually via craving for glutamate flavor like in cheese or just that my electricity is going down, into serotonin kinda feel, when ive run low on protein or its insufficient for metabolism. With fruit or fruit juice it takes significantly longer to hit that craving or even not at all for most of the day which is a trip, because it might be like 20g or less or protein...as long as I stay tonified and enough calories. I actually noted that a while back and kinda had no explanation, but if what Peat says is true, it makes sense, then most fruits probably have in the upwards of 1-2g more protein than listed per serving...it would have to be (or protein equivalent). Awesome post btw, I think its pretty important to read. I also wonder how long this fruit effect would last...once you've soaked up significant uric acid / ammonia kinda stuff to turn the keto skeletons into amino acids, you might eventually need to start eating actual amino acids. Its makes me think my body must have a pool of ammonia, and most people, that facilitates this for a little while...but for sure, fruit does seem to prolong/prevent protein cravings up to a point so long as a little density is added and enough calories/quality.
I keep wanting to test, and keep trying like I posted in the phosphate thread, a diet of mostly fruit, but it reminds me of all the problems associated with it. To be honest many fruits have issues, not to mention the fact that most available aren't worthy quality. I bought some 'tree ripe peaches' that turned completely moldy well before they turned actually ripe, and it infected the cantaloupe I bought. You got OJ which can be juiced and is ok, but eventually the tartness catches up and its like I cant handle any more of that. Berries and figs and stuff become harsh and annoying in the gut, apples/jucie/sauce and mangos are great but after a few the gut gurling starts, gas, ect..which is pretty certainly the excess of fructose not being absorbed...that actually leads to starch or more protein cravings than anything, presumably to soak up the fructose. So its pretty difficult even when you want to, to test such a thing.
Humans apparently are a really weird animal with a weird gut, compared to like every other animal in nature. Extremely sensitive basically, the most potential, but also probably the most sensitive of any animal. Theres very few things in nature humans can eat and not have to be balanced or get issues from. I also wonder if perhaps there was a time in history when other foods were available that since have goen extinct or morphed, and left humans in a situation of having to adapt. Apes survive off of figs as a huge part of their diet, something like 50-60% +, and this makes sense in the sense that figs are one of the few fruits that's very similar to human breastmilk (besides the protein being low, but if theres the keto amino acids that could explain things), and I wonder if really humans, if somehow we got ripe sources year round as is availbale in the jungles or Africa and that area, we would be well off eating 50-60% of our diet as figs. Figs that aren't very ripe become rough and inedible, irritating, and are major allergen promoters...so the way they are handled now days makes it impossible to test this, dried figs are nearly ok but they also change in the drying process...lots of c oumpounds change and the skin gets significantly tougher. Humans also seem to, presumably because of large brains and powerful glandular system and thyroid, have more a requirement for iodine, big time, than many other land animals. So maybe a diet of like ripe figs, some other stuff a little, and some sea food kinda stuff would be approaching ideal, but who knows really...this is the kidn of thing that takes serious testing by a certain type of person that must have access and lots of resources.
Milk is extremely unique in the sense it provides the sugar, nutrients, and iodine and abundant protein (tho too much isn't good for the brain) so its a very good tool, in the mean time.
I have huge respect for the people who developed cultures original foods and all that, I can only imagine what it took to discover what was edible and their properties and all that. In China theres a mythical although maybe based on a real person, figure, named Shen Nong who in pre agricultural times was said to have tested as many as a few hundred plants on himself every day, getting poisoned many times, to see which was edible and how they interacted (supposedly he turned green from poison, and it was said he had a transparent torso and could see what was happening inside him...which is probably a poetic metaphor similar to how the rishis of india would study themselves in meditative state, being extremely in tune with their body/mind connection). He discovered rice and tea and like kinda laid the foundation for what Chinese culture became in terms of diet and farming lifestyle. You have to keep in mind, before civilizations, people were basically nearly starved most of the time, foraging shwaggy berries and plants and hoping to get some meat each day, not really all there mentally, so to discover a staple food is a HUGE thing. Most cultures, such as the mesoamericans, and around the world, originally if you study and look at it before world wide systems of transporting things, lived on very limited diets and were very weary of foreign food, often rejecting them as poison at first, which makes sense and correlates to pre agricultural humans living on often poisonous food or whatever they could get and being kinda weary of anything that they weren't familiar with and was tested. Most cultures 'herbal' systems were the same thing as food, and it was all related...basically like what to survive on and how to use one poison to counteract another, kind of thing, and this was necessary for survival.
Theres a tradition still alive in the amazon , and you can see similar themes in other cultures such as with the rishis of india and herbalism in china, where the wise men, the leaders, were basically people who lived on very limited diets that were known to be pure, and then experimented with various other plants and foods and spoke about them and documented their findings. In the amazon as an example, the shamans basically would live on a diet without salt, spices, or anything with excess flavor, similar to how indian rishis would live on rice milk or kichari or things like that, and then basically live in the woods for months on end testing various plants and seeing how they affected them...this is how many plants were discovered such as tobacco and maany others, that are still used today. They often have lore and stories attatched to them as to how they were discovered, and considering the circumstances they probably are true, and each cultures staple food, such as rice, or corn, were said to be divinely gifted and divinely guided into certain humans the knowledge of their cultivation. Even when Cortez went into mexico, they had an extensive 'labratory' or school, that transcended generations, of botany research.
Basically, humans have always been searching for an ideal diet, or what to eat, since pre agricultural times, have always had to study and often by trial and error poisoning, figure out what was even edible enough to get them to the next day, and the few things that have got us to where we are now, tho maybe not ideal, are really all we have and know at the present and in the past. Extensive systems of herbalism/food and even modern medicine is no different...its basically no one really knows how it all works and we are trying to find out, and figure out how to counterbalance one things cons with anothers pros, ect
that's basically what we are all doing here too, albeit with supermarket foods, but still