Resting Heart Rate Dropping Alot After Starting Peat Enthused Diet

[nwo2012]

What do you think of taking some aspirin during training layoffs? I have considered during my off weeks taking some aspirin on the 4th day to really drive down the stress hormones and upregulate glucose oxidation. I'm not a fan of supplementation at all, but if there's a need or a benefit I'm open to it.

I just know there's a slight backlash effect with aspirin in terms of clotting. I want to avoid that, and I'm not sure if even just taking it once opens me up for more platelet aggregation?

Id highly recommend it mate. I ran it on and off and it definitely helped me maintain size and improved health, never mind the reduction in joint and back pain. Ive gone as high as 3-4g daily, always balanced with 1mg K2 per 300-350mg aspirin.
And it synergises with caffeine and creatine to give a nice training boost. As does inosine.
Aspirin also magnifies the effect of TRT exponentially through aromatase inhibition I'd guess.

 

[Jon]

Id highly recommend it mate. I ran it on and off and it definitely helped me maintain size and improved health, never mind the reduction in joint and back pain. Ive gone as high as 3-4g daily, always balanced with 1mg K2 per 300-350mg aspirin.
And it synergises with caffeine and creatine to give a nice training boost. As does inosine.
Aspirin also magnifies the effect of TRT exponentially through aromatase inhibition I'd guess.

I'm going to try it out after this week since I'll be on a layoff from training :) creatine is another one I like the idea of but I don't like it's insulin raising effect. What do you think of that?

 

[nwo2012]

I'm going to try it out after this week since I'll be on a layoff from training :) creatine is another one I like the idea of but I don't like it's insulin raising effect. What do you think of that?

I don't think its conclusive. Some studies found it raised fasting glucose level without affecting insulin levels. I think it appears very contextual. It has many positive effects including raising DHT, dopamine and lowering homocysteine which would outweigh potential insulin elevation.

 

[nwo2012]

Oh and enjoy the layoff, your physique tells us it's very well earned.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Would it be wise to return to training after I get my resting pulse and morning temps up ? Or is this something that can take a very long time?

Woke up this morning
6:00 AM
Pulse 47
Temp 97

9am
Pulse 48 average
Temp 98

 

[Jon]

I don't think its conclusive. Some studies found it raised fasting glucose level without affecting insulin levels. I think it appears very contextual. It has many positive effects including raising DHT, dopamine and lowering homocysteine which would outweigh potential insulin elevation.

I'd still like to know what that mechanism is that messes with blood sugar. I'd like to take it for the dht effects. I just don't want to mess with my blood sugar as it was a difficult road to get it back to normal.

Thanks man :) yeah I'm ready to be done training lol.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Hey guys

What would be the point of using thyroid surragates during my recovery?

Aspirin
Niacimide
Cascara sagrada (emodin one of the ingredients)
Caffiene

Wouldnt it be counter productive or is this fine as long as I'm supporting the metabolism boost by consuming more calories?

I want to get my heart rate and temps up naturally so why would one want to use these in conjunction to a ray themed diet? I've tried searching maybe I'm doing a crappy job

Does Cold hands feet or teeth clenching(minor) signal a stress response hence the need for more calories or is that not always the case

 

[Jon]

Hey guys

What would be the point of using thyroid surragates during my recovery?

Aspirin
Niacimide
Cascara sagrada (emodin one of the ingredients)
Caffiene

Wouldnt it be counter productive or is this fine as long as I'm supporting the metabolism boost by consuming more calories?

I want to get my heart rate and temps up naturally so why would one want to use these in conjunction to a ray themed diet? I've tried searching maybe I'm doing a crappy job

Does Cold hands feet or teeth clenching(minor) signal a stress response hence the need for more calories or is that not always the case

Your answer is in the descriptor: "surrogates"

Meaning they're "acting as" thyroid hormone would.

It's a mixed bag as far as an answer goes though. Imo (as you know I'm in the side of caution and minimalism) it would be best to just use diet to ameliorate your hypo/over stressed symptoms to see where you stand with just diet as your aid. Journal all of your protocols and experiences, and once you've established a status quo of health with a consistent steady diet regiment, then assess if you need further intervention from one or all of those surrogates. If you muddy the waters too much by throwing in substances that "act" as thyroid then you may never actually know what your weaknesses are, let alone the depth of how bad they actually are. You need to first collect those data points friend.

 

[Jon]

Here's some things to answer first:

1) what's digestion like? Do you have issues with it?

2) do you track you macros? Micros? Do you represent atleast the rda for each vitamin and mineral?

3) do you balance your amino acids with gelatin or glycine?

4) Do you get uvb or red light/orange light exposure?

5) Have you gotten a vitamin mineral panel?

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Here's some things to answer first:

1) what's digestion like? Do you have issues with it?

2) do you track you macros? Micros? Do you represent atleast the rda for each vitamin and mineral?

3) do you balance your amino acids with gelatin or glycine?

4) Do you get uvb or red light/orange light exposure?

5) Have you gotten a vitamin mineral panel?

1.) Digestion sucks...won't poo for days unless I bump up my caffiene intake or magensium

2.) Track both- I ensure a good calcium to phopshtae ratio, sodium potassium intake is good sodium usually 3 4 g a day potassium same maybe 2 3 g ... taurine daily

3. glycine 3 4 g daily I do not take gelatin if I eat meat or egg whites I take glycine with it..

4. No

5 never... I've gotten my minerals done thur blood test a year back and showed low end for everything this was before feeling completely crashed and before learning of peat.

I eat liver 3 4 times a week , cheese milk and egg white main source protein carbs are oj milk sugar honey fruit fat is coconut oil maybe some eggs here and there and trace amounts from milk and meats

 

[Jon]

Ok so then I think there's a lot you should address and can rectify before you start throwing in supplements.

1) diegestion is integral for all of this to work. Fixing my digestion was the key to building momentum to better and better health.

2) but do you ensure an adequate intake of all b's, vitamin c, k-1, and ALL your minerals? If you're low in every mineral there's a HUGE red flag for your androgen output. If your not representing atleast the rda through diet then that's something I suggest you rectify. I am able to represent excess levels of all vitamins and minerals even with a calorie intake as low as 1800 (when in a fat loss phase). You can do the same.

3) I reccomend switching to gelatin instead of isolated glycine. Don't get me wrong, I think glycine is good, but gelatin also has other important inhibitory aminos that I think are good to represent as well. Getting in 24g of gelatin is what I aim for.

4) Dude light exposure is imperative for your circadian rhythm. Laying in a high uvb tanning bed fixed my horrid insomnia within an hour after usage. Most of us don't have access to adequate sunlight, and if you're one of them, I'd highly reccomend either getting a uvb light for your house, going to the tanning bed, or look at low level orange or rednloght decices.

5) again I think you need to do some work here.

I don't think that much liver is healthy. That's ALOT of copper, and though you need some, too much will raise estrogen. This is my personal opinion, but coming from someone who had major digestive issues, I think you need more starch in your diet. Specifically white potatoes. Well cooked They pretty much cured my digestion along with some adjunct interventions I used to what I believe was chelate any excess iron I had and also kill off pathogenic bugs/ foster bifido growth. I also think you're getting in way too much fructose and liquid.

 

[tara]

Would it be wise to return to training after I get my resting pulse and morning temps up ? Or is this something that can take a very long time?

I predict it will take a while to get your heart rate and temps up to normal by reasonable means, and I don't think it's wise to do it quickly by extreme measures.
Whether/when it's wise to return to training might depend a bit on your history and the effects it has on you.

Does Cold hands feet or teeth clenching(minor) signal a stress response ...

Probably

... hence the need for more calories or is that not always the case

Quite possibly, but there can be other causes of stress too that just supplying calories won't solve. All the nutritional (macro and micro) and other needs - sleep, sunlight, movement, infections, trauma, life issues, etc.

It's a mixed bag as far as an answer goes though. Imo (as you know I'm in the side of caution and minimalism) it would be best to just use diet to ameliorate your hypo/over stressed symptoms to see where you stand with just diet as your aid. Journal all of your protocols and experiences, and once you've established a status quo of health with a consistent steady diet regiment, then assess if you need further intervention from one or all of those surrogates. If you muddy the waters too much by throwing in substances that "act" as thyroid then you may never actually know what your weaknesses are, let alone the depth of how bad they actually are. You need to first collect those data points friend.

+1

1.) Digestion sucks...won't poo for days unless I bump up my caffiene intake or magensium

Slow transit is a common adaptation to chronic under-eating - it's a way to get more out of the food before it's lost to the system. If this is the main cause, it apparently usually improves after a while with more food.

Carbs - OJ milk fruit sugar honey

Have you established that you personally do better with carbs like this? Not everyone seems to. Despite Peat favouring fruit and milk etc, some seem to do better including some more starchy carbs like potatoes etc as well.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

Ok so then I think there's a lot you should address and can rectify before you start throwing in supplements.

1) diegestion is integral for all of this to work. Fixing my digestion was the key to building momentum to better and better health.

2) but do you ensure an adequate intake of all b's, vitamin c, k-1, and ALL your minerals? If you're low in every mineral there's a HUGE red flag for your androgen output. If your not representing atleast the rda through diet then that's something I suggest you rectify. I am able to represent excess levels of all vitamins and minerals even with a calorie intake as low as 1800 (when in a fat loss phase). You can do the same.

3) I reccomend switching to gelatin instead of isolated glycine. Don't get me wrong, I think glycine is good, but gelatin also has other important inhibitory aminos that I think are good to represent as well. Getting in 24g of gelatin is what I aim for.

4) Dude light exposure is imperative for your circadian rhythm. Laying in a high uvb tanning bed fixed my horrid insomnia within an hour after usage. Most of us don't have access to adequate sunlight, and if you're one of them, I'd highly reccomend either getting a uvb light for your house, going to the tanning bed, or look at low level orange or rednloght decices.

5) again I think you need to do some work here.

I don't think that much liver is healthy. That's ALOT of copper, and though you need some, too much will raise estrogen. This is my personal opinion, but coming from someone who had major digestive issues, I think you need more starch in your diet. Specifically white potatoes. Well cooked They pretty much cured my digestion along with some adjunct interventions I used to what I believe was chelate any excess iron I had and also kill off pathogenic bugs/ foster bifido growth. I also think you're getting in way too much fructose and liquid.

Do you mind posting a sample days diet so I can get some ideas? I doubt I'm getting 100 RDA with everything I'm eating. Naturally pre peat I would eat tons of veggies eggs meat and felt that I got a good amount of vitamins and minerals

Now moving towards a more peat friendly diet I'm unsure if I'm meeting certain requirements. I never ate liver before I switched over to peating and I've dropped alot of my fat intake again most fats come from eggs trace fats from meat or coco oil

I might have to do more research with red light therapy. My sleep has already improved alot since eating more carbs so its something I must look into. I'm sure theres an endless amount of benefits not just sleep correction

I dropped potatoes from my diet I wont lie since I've been peating. Maybe lack of research but I've read peats against starch but I've seen posts with people saying to really cook the potato vs how I normally bake it.

Protein intake has dropped since starting . I've always been body weight in protein and even more when dieting but now since this peat diet I'm down to 140 ish a day and taking time off gym.

I agree too much liquid but I've been adding salt to my diet and my pee is never really clear before it was just white non stop. The last time I've had q pee that was dark yellow I cant remember (drinking alcohol aside)

I'll back off supplements for now.

With regard to gelatin whats the best source I live in Canada. I've looked up great lakes gelatin I dont think I was able to get it to come to Hamilton Ontario

 

[tara]

Naturally pre peat I would eat tons of veggies eggs meat and felt that I got a good amount of vitamins and minerals

Eating some veges, eggs and meat might still work for you, along with more carbs than you were eating before? Seems your metabolism was running better while you were eating those things?

Now moving towards a more peat friendly diet I'm unsure if I'm meeting certain requirements.

My reading of Peat is that he doesn't have a set of requirements. He has said it's a good idea to eat for a high metabolism, not to a specific protocol. Or that the only protocol might be something like 'think, perceive, act'. Which in the case of your own health, includes paying attention to the effects of what you are doing, and seeing what works for you.

I dropped potatoes from my diet I wont lie since I've been peating. Maybe lack of research but I've read peats against starch but I've seen posts with people saying to really cook the potato vs how I normally bake it.

I'd suggest trying them and seeing how they work for you. Boiling seems good to me, but I like baked sometimes too, or chipped in coconut oil or beef fat. There's at least one poster here who rebuilt her health with a lot of potatoes.
Peat has said that people who have particular difficulties with gut microbes should probably avoid starch, and tends to favour fruit, but he has also poken very favourably of the good nutrition in potatoes otherwise.
Now that you've tried leaving out the spuds, and your metabolism seems to have gone down hill, maybe it's time to enjoy them again?

Have you been reading any of Peat's writing? If you just read advice from members, you'll get a bit of a mnixture of ideas -. If you want to know what Peat says, I'd recommend reading or listening to his interviews yourself.

 

[Jon]

Do you mind posting a sample days diet so I can get some ideas? I doubt I'm getting 100 RDA with everything I'm eating. Naturally pre peat I would eat tons of veggies eggs meat and felt that I got a good amount of vitamins and minerals

Now moving towards a more peat friendly diet I'm unsure if I'm meeting certain requirements. I never ate liver before I switched over to peating and I've dropped alot of my fat intake again most fats come from eggs trace fats from meat or coco oil

I might have to do more research with red light therapy. My sleep has already improved alot since eating more carbs so its something I must look into. I'm sure theres an endless amount of benefits not just sleep correction

I dropped potatoes from my diet I wont lie since I've been peating. Maybe lack of research but I've read peats against starch but I've seen posts with people saying to really cook the potato vs how I normally bake it.

Protein intake has dropped since starting . I've always been body weight in protein and even more when dieting but now since this peat diet I'm down to 140 ish a day and taking time off gym.

I agree too much liquid but I've been adding salt to my diet and my pee is never really clear before it was just white non stop. The last time I've had q pee that was dark yellow I cant remember (drinking alcohol aside)

I'll back off supplements for now.

With regard to gelatin whats the best source I live in Canada. I've looked up great lakes gelatin I dont think I was able to get it to come to Hamilton Ontario

So this is an example of a normal day I give out to people lol:


"Here ya go :) also note that I am no longer supplementing calcium. Started to have an aversion to high calcium foods in the form of nausea and pretty immediate diarrhea lol tmi. Even though I've kept my ratios 1:1 most days with Phosphorous to Calcium, I'm guessing I just don't need to be that exact and actually having alittle more Phosphorous in my diet compared to calcium is fine for me.



Meal 1:
-fresh squeezed Orange Juice 8oz
-Cappuccino;2 shots espresso, 8oz Skim Milk
-2 Whole Eggs cooked in 1-2g butter
-1-2tbsp Annie's Ketchup
-300g potatoes fried in coconut oil
-200mg calcium (via calcium carbonate)
- Carlson K2

Meal 2:
-3oz low fat string cheese
-1 large green Apple or 8oz Apple juice

Meal 3:
-Cappuccino; 3 shots, 10oz milk
-3oz Pork tenderloin ( raw weight pressure cooked)
-100g (raw weight) white basmati rice
-40g raw shredded carrot or whole carrot making sure to chew well


Meal 4: (pre workout meal on training days)
-Orange Juice 8oz
- 1 cup non fat Greek yogurt w/pinch of baking soda OR 150g Strained 1% Cottage Cheese (for natural source of Taurine)

-14g maple syrup
-300g potatoes fried in coco oil
-Cappuccino; 2 shots, 6-8oz skim milk

Workout:
-28 to 56oz of Gerolsteiner mineral water

Meal 5:
-93% Ground Beef 4oz (raw weight)
-100g (raw weight) basmati white rice
-8 oz Apple juice
-150g (raw weight) quick Boiled spinach
-60 grams (raw weight) pre boiled white button mushroom, thawed in microwave and sauteed in 2g coco oil.
-possibly more calcium carbonate to keep phosphorous ratio 1:1 if needed.
-Carlsons K2

Dessert: (if not all calories were reached)
-Papaya, mango, or watermelon or Strauss Vanilla Ice Cream (I always have each of these on hand because I usually have to fill calories with them)

This is pretty much what everyday looks like. I used to supplement more but I had some adverse effects and realized for the most part I just don't need to supplement. I also lay in a high uvb tanning bed 2-3x a week and use coco oil as a tanning oil to get vitamin D as I'm usually sequestered inside most of the week and could never get enough natural vitamin d if not for the tanning bed. Also have seen an old study that showed upper chest/back, and testicle exposure to uvb increased testosterone quite a bit.

My diet focuses are calcium:phosphate ratio, calcium:magnesium ratio, zinc:copper ratio, glucose:fructose(starch:sugar) ratio, saturated:pufa ratio, and potassium:sodium ratio, a vitamin C intake of 300-400mg, a cholesterol intake of 500-1000mg, also I make sure to get in the mineral water and some baking soda to get in bicarbonate. I also usually get in around 24g of plain gelatin in a day but I was transitioning out of a fat loss phase when I wrote this so I wasn't ingesting any gelatin as it can cause a protein deficit during under eating even if protein intake is adequate in grams per lb of lean mass."

These are examples of how this dietary regiment stacks up in Cronometer:



And this is how the calories add up; I use a separate tracking app for calories and macros as I find though Cronometer does it's homework in micronutrients per weight of food, they really suck at getting calories and macros accurate:




I always forget to mention I also eat 1 cup of blueberries a day to get in manganese. I did include this for my tracking input in the picture examples. Also something to note is that when I put in all my food I did NOT include calcium supplementation with that nor vitamin k2 and as you can see I was only about 600mg low in calcium compared to Phosphorous which I think Ray would find permissible.

 

[Jon]

@Nick Borcic any organic brand of gelatin that sources from pasture raised cows is good imo

 

[Jon]

Eating some veges, eggs and meat might still work for you, along with more carbs than you were eating before? Seems your metabolism was running better while you were eating those things?


My reading of Peat is that he doesn't have a set of requirements. He has said it's a good idea to eat for a high metabolism, not to a specific protocol. Or that the only protocol might be something like 'think, perceive, act'. Which in the case of your own health, includes paying attention to the effects of what you are doing, and seeing what works for you.


I'd suggest trying them and seeing how they work for you. Boiling seems good to me, but I like baked sometimes too, or chipped in coconut oil or beef fat. There's at least one poster here who rebuilt her health with a lot of potatoes.
Peat has said that people who have particular difficulties with gut microbes should probably avoid starch, and tends to favour fruit, but he has also poken very favourably of the good nutrition in potatoes otherwise.
Now that you've tried leaving out the spuds, and your metabolism seems to have gone down hill, maybe it's time to enjoy them again?

Have you been reading any of Peat's writing? If you just read advice from members, you'll get a bit of a mnixture of ideas -. If you want to know what Peat says, I'd recommend reading or listening to his interviews yourself.

I'm another member who fixed their health with potatoes :)

Listen to Tara @Nick Borcic cause if there's one poster here who's sharp as a tac and won't bs you, it's her!

 

[tara]

Listen to Tara @Nick Borcic cause if there's one poster here who's sharp as a tac and won't bs you, it's her!

Thanks for kind words. :)

Nick
I'm still just one poster, lay person not expert, and guessing about your situation from what you tell. You have key access to information about yourself that no-one else has, and you are the one that gets to figure out what works for you. Remember to listen to your body amongst all the theory.

 

[Sagitarrius90]

A week and a day have past...

Weight has gone up I'm sure mostly increased glyocten but my sleeps have been great I usually wake up once max twice so something as simple as a week off gym has a big benefit in that department

My tempe and pulse havent budged.... my resting pulse is around 49 compared to 47-48 last week but then again I'm literally having one or two coffees down from 5-6.

Temps are still low 97 when I wake up and low 98 mid 98 during day.

This upcoming Tuesday will be 2 weeks off the gym but I havent seen big improvements with temp and pulse even though I've been eating alot of salt oj potatoes milk liver gelatin and some coconut oil.

Calories are up to around 2600 2700 so I'm over maintenance in my estimation forsure I literally dont do anything since I sit for the majority of my day.

If I DO return to working out I think I'll do less frequency less volume whilst trying to lose weight . I think it I wait it out it will take me months if not a year to feel optimal.

I feel as if my cortisol is low rather than go to my doctor and end up being prescribed cortisone is there anything I could take or eat to get my cortisol levels higher? I know there low because a year or two ago I had a reverse cortisol curve (low morning high at night) and if anything I think it has gotten worse. I need coffee to wake up or else my day goes to crap

Thanks guys

 

[Jon]

A week and a day have past...

Weight has gone up I'm sure mostly increased glyocten but my sleeps have been great I usually wake up once max twice so something as simple as a week off gym has a big benefit in that department

My tempe and pulse havent budged.... my resting pulse is around 49 compared to 47-48 last week but then again I'm literally having one or two coffees down from 5-6.

Temps are still low 97 when I wake up and low 98 mid 98 during day.

This upcoming Tuesday will be 2 weeks off the gym but I havent seen big improvements with temp and pulse even though I've been eating alot of salt oj potatoes milk liver gelatin and some coconut oil.

Calories are up to around 2600 2700 so I'm over maintenance in my estimation forsure I literally dont do anything since I sit for the majority of my day.

If I DO return to working out I think I'll do less frequency less volume whilst trying to lose weight . I think it I wait it out it will take me months if not a year to feel optimal.

I feel as if my cortisol is low rather than go to my doctor and end up being prescribed cortisone is there anything I could take or eat to get my cortisol levels higher? I know there low because a year or two ago I had a reverse cortisol curve (low morning high at night) and if anything I think it has gotten worse. I need coffee to wake up or else my day goes to crap

Thanks guys

Dude this is GREAT news for you. Seeing this much improvement (as minor as it may seem) is awesome. You do realize there are people around here that would kill to alleviate there sleep issues by just doing less, right?

Temps and heart rate take awhile man. In my experience they are the last thing to go up. But it makes sense if you really think about it. You have so much systemic damage that your body has a lot of work to do to rectify all of it and since it took you years to get this way, you have to expect bat LEAST a couple months to fix it.

Losing weight is not the answer right now. If anything, a good maintenance phase with the intention of gaining muscle is permissible. Losing weight will require more cortisol secretion.

Black licorice is proven to increase cortisol but in not sure if it's just increasing adrenal outputbinstead of actually helping to provide materials for more cortisol synthesis. In that department your only option may in fact be hormonal replacement.

Even so, I'd say with more rest you will feel better and better. Usually by day 7-8 quality of life improvements are better everyday.

Like I said before, you don't have to overreat a TON (like 150-300 cals) and only have to for 3-4 days. After that you should have a largely improved satiety, and you will notice most likely you are easily satisfied with food and really don't have to pay much mind to it. Keep up the good work man!