What's the worst that could happen eating potatoes and milk daily?

welshwing

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"Two pounds of well-cooked mashed potato has the protein value similar to a liter of milk, about 33 grams of protein. A person would be able to live for a long time on two or three liters of either milk or 4-6 pounds of potatoes per day. The milk drinker would eventually need to supplement iron, the potato eaters would need to supplement vitamin A, possibly B12, but both of them are nearly perfect foods"

Did Ray Peat really say that? Mixing potatoes and milk to make mashed potatoes or drinking a glass of milk with potatoes is easy and cheap. I eat lots of potatoes because I can't afford and don't like eating so many fruits and juices. Is it doable as a long term diet? Of course you can add extra foods but can you survive off this?
 
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No, you need baobab powder, seaweed extract, Goji berries and Antarctic krill or you might die :ss2
 

Brian

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I ate that way for a long time. I think it can work as long as you make sure to keep your metabolism up by eating and sleeping enough. You could even add some sugar to your milk, with all that potassium and magnesium in the potatoes it should ensure you have plenty for the extra sugar.

You could probably use some extra zinc, vitamin a, and b12 though, so I would add some occasional liver, and oysters/beef.

Since the potatoes are very insulinogenic I would take up some regular anaerobic exercise to help make sure that the extra glucose will be stored as muscle glycogen. Lower fat milk should help with that too.

Also some well cooked greens go well with potatoes and would give you plenty of K1.

Eventually I got burnt out on potatoes. I wonder if I was getting excessive potassium, maybe not enough sodium? I think I also became a little insulin resistant from eating too high fat in combination with a high potato diet with not enough anaerobic exercise.
 

charlie

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Ray Peat said:
post 106868 "...both of them are nearly perfect foods."

2 nearly perfect foods. :D

I wonder if there is a 3rd? :ninja
 
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welshwing

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Brian said:
post 106873 I ate that way for a long time. I think it can work as long as you make sure to keep your metabolism up by eating and sleeping enough. You could even add some sugar to your milk, with all that potassium and magnesium in the potatoes it should ensure you have plenty for the extra sugar.

You could probably use some extra zinc, vitamin a, and b12 though, so I would add some occasional liver, and oysters/beef.

Since the potatoes are very insulinogenic I would take up some regular anaerobic exercise to help make sure that the extra glucose will be stored as muscle glycogen. Lower fat milk should help with that too.

Also some well cooked greens go well with potatoes and would give you plenty of K1.

Eventually I got burnt out on potatoes. I wonder if I was getting excessive potassium, maybe not enough sodium? I think I also became a little insulin resistant from eating too high fat in combination with a high potato diet with not enough anaerobic exercise.
Are you saying the potatoes and fat or just the fat made you insulin resistant? Scary. I've never felt bad eating 2-3 large potatoes in one sitting, but I'm kind of too young to have serious health problems. Don't eat much fat with potatoes and exercise is what you say will make the diet work?

Also sodium can be added to potatoes. Don't know how to deal with excess potassium, I'm just listening to what Ray Peat said in that quote.
 
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kiran

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The catch is, if you eat too much starch, you might get bacterial overgrowth eventually.
 
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welshwing

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kiran said:
post 106880 The catch is, if you eat too much starch, you might get bacterial overgrowth eventually.

Won't eating carrots help prevent that?
 
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Brian

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welshwing said:
Are you saying the potatoes and fat or just the fat made you insulin resistant? Scary. I've never felt bad eating 2-3 large potatoes in one sitting, but I'm kind of too young to have serious health problems. Don't eat much fat with potatoes and exercise is what you say will make the diet work?

Yeah, I think that's pretty much the key for any high carb diet, but especially one with lots of starch. If insulin resistance starts developing everything goes downhill. If digestion gets slow enough endotoxin will build up and then you're really in trouble, but in my experience endotoxin won't form with a lot of starch unless your metabolism is already low. So if you are starting from a good place you should be fine.

On the upside the high insulin after meals should help you gain muscle faster as a post workout meal and really pump them up hard with glycogen.

One more thing, I would try to eat the white sweet potatoes more than varieties such as russets. I'm not sure it's safe to pound that much daily solanine long term.
 

Nicholas

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if you reheat potatoes after letting them sit overnight (or over the week) in the fridge, you would have very little concern for insulin resistance or developing blood sugar problems. In fact, it is more likely to protect you from such using this form of retrograded starch. Insulin and blood sugar problems, while relevant to all macronutrients, is more a product of improper fat use. Unfortunately, starches taste better with fat.
Milk does seem like a very appropriate compliment to the potatoes.
 

Nicholas

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Brian said:
post 106882
welshwing said:
Are you saying the potatoes and fat or just the fat made you insulin resistant? Scary. I've never felt bad eating 2-3 large potatoes in one sitting, but I'm kind of too young to have serious health problems. Don't eat much fat with potatoes and exercise is what you say will make the diet work?

Yeah, I think that's pretty much the key for any high carb diet, but especially one with lots of starch. If insulin resistance starts developing everything goes downhill. If digestion gets slow enough endotoxin will build up and then you're really in trouble, but in my experience endotoxin won't form with a lot of starch unless your metabolism is already low. So if you are starting from a good place you should be fine.

On the upside the high insulin after meals should help you gain muscle faster as a post workout meal.

exactly: endotoxin as a result of motility issues rather than the food itself.
 
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Nicholas said:
post 106884 if you reheat potatoes after letting them sit overnight (or over the week) in the fridge, you would have very little concern for insulin resistance or developing blood sugar problems.

Yeah because you would absorb nothing from them :ss
 
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Nicholas

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Such_Saturation said:
post 106886
Nicholas said:
post 106884 if you reheat potatoes after letting them sit overnight (or over the week) in the fridge, you would have very little concern for insulin resistance or developing blood sugar problems.

Yeah because you would absorb nothing from them :ss

you do absorb some of the carbs (about half). the effect on blood glucose is not limited only to the RS meal but also subsequent meals and insulin sensitivity overall regardless of whether you're eating a RS meal or starch meal.
 
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Nicholas said:
post 106906 you do absorb some of the carbs (about half). the effect on blood glucose is not limited only to the RS meal but also subsequent meals and insulin sensitivity overall regardless of whether you're eating a RS meal or starch meal.

This is not true. The concept of "resistant" starch in the way people talk about it is pure paleo propaganda because they are so afraid of carbohydrate. The amount of "resistant" starch is so small that it means nothing.

Your body temp is almost 100 degrees. Even if a starch food had been cooled down its still going into your near 100 degree body.

What do you think happens to the non resistant starch because it is cooled? Nothing. The starch is still there whether it has been cooled or not.

Jeff Novick dunked this topic:

"There is a lot of hype out there about resistant starch, most of it has nothing to do with someone who is following the guidelines and principles recommended here.

A cooked baked potato has about 1 gram of RS per 100 grams. Increase that by 10% and you have 1.1

Cooked Brown Rice has 1.7 per 100 grams. increasing that by 10% and you have 1.87.

You said above that this is important to you in regard to, "someone who wants to lose weight." Well, the impact of this 10% would be miniscule and not relevant.

Let's take a closer look.

RS is still absorbed and yields calories but instead of the it yielding 4 cal/gram, it yields about 2 cal/gram.

Even if you consumed nothing but hot potatoes, 2000 grams would be 1860 calories. The 2000 grams would yield 20 grams of resistant starch. If you cooled the potatoes and increased the yield of RS 10%, you now have 22 grams of RS, not 20. You have 2 more grams. And those 2 grams would now yield 2 calories each and not 4. So, 2 grams x 2 calories each is 4 calories, so you would have reduced the total caloric load of the diet by 4 calories.

If you run the numbers on a 2200 calorie diet consuming nothing but brown rice, the difference will be 3.4 grams of resistant starch, and the calories saved would be 6.8

As you can see, the reduction in total calories of the food is miniscule, even if you ate nothing but cooked potatoes or brown rice.

However, understanding the principles and guidelines of calorie density, would be more important.

The average calorie density of brown rice and potatoes is about 500 cal/lb. Now, all you are talking about is increasing the amount of RS by 10% and thus, reducing a small portion of the calories absorbed.

In regard to calorie density, even if you could reduce the absorption of "all" the calories in the brown rice and the potatoes by 10%, they would now be 450 cal/lb, which is still in the exact same "range" of calorie density as before and would not have an impact to anyone following the guidelines and principles of calorie density.

Therefore, again, the impact of temperature on the RS is miniscule to anyone following this WOE..

omeone PM'd me and asked if I would comment on beans. They said beans are being touted as the food highest in RS, making up about 30% of the calories and so using beans would make a larger difference as you would only get about 70% of the calories listed.

Let's take a closer look at beans and RS.

First, most all my previous comments above apply, as you will see.

Second, to be accurate, as there are many numbers circulating on the internet about the amount of RS in foods, we will use the the current Standard Reference for Resistant Starch, which comes from this study.

Resistant starch intakes in the United States. J Am Diet Assoc. 2008 Jan;108(1):67-78.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18155991

It compiled the data on RS from many studies. It also pointed out how earlier methods of calculating RS were not accurate and used animal models, test tube analysis, etc etc and how they have tried to correct for all of this. That is why there may be varying numbers out there and why we will use the Standard Reference.

So, knowing there are some limitations on the numbers and how they are analyzed and calculated, here is the info on beans and the amount of RS per 100 grams.

Legumes - Amount of RS per 100 grams

Beans, black/brown, cooked/canned - 1.7
Beans, kidney, cooked/canned -2.0
Beans, mung, cooked- 1.6
Beans, pinto, cooked- 1.9
Beans, white, cooked/canned -4.2
Chickpeas, cooked/canned- 2.6
Cowpeas, cooked - 0.6
Lentils, cooked- 3.4
Lima beans, cooked/canned- 1.2
Peas, mature, cooked/canned - 2.6

The average of these is 2.2 grams of RS per 100 grams.

However, lets use a "best case" scenario and use one of the higher foods tested, lentils, so we really see how big the impact of RS is and how the numbers work out.

Lentils are 3.4 grams of RS per 100 grams, which is about 1/2 cup and about 116 calories. The 3.4 grams would yield about 13.6 calories if it was totally digestible. That means 12% of their calories are RS, which they say you do not absorb. Subtracting that amount from the total would lower the calorie value from 116 to 102.4

However, RS yields about 2 calories per gram so using the 2 calories per gram, instead of lowering the calories value 12%, it would only lower it 6% and the calories would go from 116 to 109.

Some actual studies have shown that RS actually yields 2.2 to 2.8 calories per gram.

("Resistant starch averaged 2.8 kcal/g for all 24 subjects but only 2.2 kcal/g in the hyperinsulinemic subjects" Resistant starch as energy. J Am Coll Nutr. 1996 Jun;15(3):248-54.)

So, if we used the 2.8 cal/gram, the calorie yield would only be lowered from 116 to 111.9, which is only 3.6%

And, that is a "best case scenario" using one of the higher legumes tests. However, according to the Standard Reference, the actual average amount of RS in beans is only about 2.2 grams per 100 grams, or about 2.2 grams per 1/2 cup cooked. So, the impact would be much lower.

On average, 100 grams of cooked beans is about 1/2 cup and about 115 calories and contains 2.2 grams of RS. The 2.2 grams of RS would yield 4.4 calories instead of 8.8 and so lower the total calories from 115 to 110.6, or about 3.8%.

At 2.8 calories per gram of RS, the 2.2 grams of RS would yield 6.16 calories instead of 8, lowering the total from 115 to 113.16 or about 1.6%

In Health
Jeff


PS From the SR Database, here is the RS in 100 grams of other recommend foods

Potatoes, baked -1.0
Potatoes, boiled -1.3
Pasta, whole-wheat, cooked- 1.4
Rice, brown, cooked- 1.7
Barley, pearled, cooked -2.4
Buckwheat groats, cooked- 1.8
Millet, cooked- 1.7
Pita, wheat- 1.3
Whole-wheat bread -1.0
Tortillas, corn- 3.0
Sweet potatoes, cooked- 0.7
Yam, cooked -1.5"


https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/view ... 0958d98d28
 
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frankfranks

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I've at times found it surprisingly tricky to get good potatoes. When you don't douse them in fat and seasoning you can taste that they're often "off" a bit. I guess it's mostly the solanine from the potato being stressed.
 
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frankfranks said:
post 106934 I've at times found it surprisingly tricky to get good potatoes. When you don't douse them in fat and seasoning you can taste that they're often "off" a bit. I guess it's mostly the solanine from the potato being stressed.

I've noticed this with beef. It can be "off" a bit too if I don't douse it in A1 Sauce/seasoning. It's hard to find a good grass fed beef and when you do it's pricey. Cheap beef is from a stressed cow too. Solanine is only if the potato is green under the skin.
 
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Mittir

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Green potato has a lot of solanine and it is toxic.
But, potato can have large amount of solanine without getting green.
Taste is the best indicator, it tastes bitter.
It is better to avoid potato that tastes off.
Naturally most of the solanine
is stored under the skin, so thick peeling is helpful.
In addition to starch, Potato has large amount of pectin,
which can increase endotoxin depending on gut bacteria composition..
I think shredded potato cooked in saturated fat
causes less problem than baked or boiled one.
 

YuraCZ

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cooked and then refrigerated parboiled rice is the best resistant starch I think. It gives me INSANE gas every time I eat that ***t. :D
 

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