Kasra's Q & A with Peat on a fruitarian diet.

From November 28th, 2013:

Kasra: "Dr. Peat, In one of your articles, you mention that fruits contain "carbon
skeleton" equivalents of the essential amino acids. Does this mean that the actual protein content of a fruit could be substantially greater than what a nutrition database says?"

Peat: "Yes, the way a potato's effective protein content is much higher than the chemical protein content."

Kasra: "Could this mitigate the problem of protein deficiency on an all-fruit diet?"

Peat: "Yes, but since there isn't much known about their ketoacid content, it would be best to have a wide variety of fruits. A couple of times in the last ten years I've started a project to test some fruits, but because of the new laws since 2001, I haven't able to buy the necessary reagents. It would have to be done in some government approved institution."

Kasra: "One more thing - is B12 deficiency on an all-fruit diet likely? I've read that the gut flora produce B12 but that it isn't necessarily absorbed."

Peat: "Normally the bacteria can provide enough, but it's good to have some in the food too, for example milk."

Kasra: "How serious of a problem is vitamin A deficiency on an all-fruit diet?"

Peat: "Most fruits contain some carotene, and with vitamin B12 and good thyroid function, that will be turned into vitamin A."

Kasra: "If I were to eat a diet of nothing but milk and fruit, would you recommend high-fat or low-fat milk?"

Peat: "For people who don't do hard physical labor, low-fat milk is appropriate."

http://beesandbutterflies.org/32173/con ... fruit-diet

 

"but because of the new laws since 2001, I haven't able to buy the necessary reagents." - RP

In other words, 9/11 prevented Peat from doing what would have been some amazing research on the protein content and quality of many different fruits. Sigh.

 

yea, it is annoying it would be nice to eventually have some data

this correlates with my experience because if I just drink brewed beverages with sugar, its obvious and I can always tell usually via craving for glutamate flavor like in cheese or just that my electricity is going down, into serotonin kinda feel, when ive run low on protein or its insufficient for metabolism. With fruit or fruit juice it takes significantly longer to hit that craving or even not at all for most of the day which is a trip, because it might be like 20g or less or protein...as long as I stay tonified and enough calories. I actually noted that a while back and kinda had no explanation, but if what Peat says is true, it makes sense, then most fruits probably have in the upwards of 1-2g more protein than listed per serving...it would have to be (or protein equivalent). Awesome post btw, I think its pretty important to read. I also wonder how long this fruit effect would last...once you've soaked up significant uric acid / ammonia kinda stuff to turn the keto skeletons into amino acids, you might eventually need to start eating actual amino acids. Its makes me think my body must have a pool of ammonia, and most people, that facilitates this for a little while...but for sure, fruit does seem to prolong/prevent protein cravings up to a point so long as a little density is added and enough calories/quality.

I keep wanting to test, and keep trying like I posted in the phosphate thread, a diet of mostly fruit, but it reminds me of all the problems associated with it. To be honest many fruits have issues, not to mention the fact that most available aren't worthy quality. I bought some 'tree ripe peaches' that turned completely moldy well before they turned actually ripe, and it infected the cantaloupe I bought. You got OJ which can be juiced and is ok, but eventually the tartness catches up and its like I cant handle any more of that. Berries and figs and stuff become harsh and annoying in the gut, apples/jucie/sauce and mangos are great but after a few the gut gurling starts, gas, ect..which is pretty certainly the excess of fructose not being absorbed...that actually leads to starch or more protein cravings than anything, presumably to soak up the fructose. So its pretty difficult even when you want to, to test such a thing.

Humans apparently are a really weird animal with a weird gut, compared to like every other animal in nature. Extremely sensitive basically, the most potential, but also probably the most sensitive of any animal. Theres very few things in nature humans can eat and not have to be balanced or get issues from. I also wonder if perhaps there was a time in history when other foods were available that since have goen extinct or morphed, and left humans in a situation of having to adapt. Apes survive off of figs as a huge part of their diet, something like 50-60% +, and this makes sense in the sense that figs are one of the few fruits that's very similar to human breastmilk (besides the protein being low, but if theres the keto amino acids that could explain things), and I wonder if really humans, if somehow we got ripe sources year round as is availbale in the jungles or Africa and that area, we would be well off eating 50-60% of our diet as figs. Figs that aren't very ripe become rough and inedible, irritating, and are major allergen promoters...so the way they are handled now days makes it impossible to test this, dried figs are nearly ok but they also change in the drying process...lots of c oumpounds change and the skin gets significantly tougher. Humans also seem to, presumably because of large brains and powerful glandular system and thyroid, have more a requirement for iodine, big time, than many other land animals. So maybe a diet of like ripe figs, some other stuff a little, and some sea food kinda stuff would be approaching ideal, but who knows really...this is the kidn of thing that takes serious testing by a certain type of person that must have access and lots of resources.

Milk is extremely unique in the sense it provides the sugar, nutrients, and iodine and abundant protein (tho too much isn't good for the brain) so its a very good tool, in the mean time.

I have huge respect for the people who developed cultures original foods and all that, I can only imagine what it took to discover what was edible and their properties and all that. In China theres a mythical although maybe based on a real person, figure, named Shen Nong who in pre agricultural times was said to have tested as many as a few hundred plants on himself every day, getting poisoned many times, to see which was edible and how they interacted (supposedly he turned green from poison, and it was said he had a transparent torso and could see what was happening inside him...which is probably a poetic metaphor similar to how the rishis of india would study themselves in meditative state, being extremely in tune with their body/mind connection). He discovered rice and tea and like kinda laid the foundation for what Chinese culture became in terms of diet and farming lifestyle. You have to keep in mind, before civilizations, people were basically nearly starved most of the time, foraging shwaggy berries and plants and hoping to get some meat each day, not really all there mentally, so to discover a staple food is a HUGE thing. Most cultures, such as the mesoamericans, and around the world, originally if you study and look at it before world wide systems of transporting things, lived on very limited diets and were very weary of foreign food, often rejecting them as poison at first, which makes sense and correlates to pre agricultural humans living on often poisonous food or whatever they could get and being kinda weary of anything that they weren't familiar with and was tested. Most cultures 'herbal' systems were the same thing as food, and it was all related...basically like what to survive on and how to use one poison to counteract another, kind of thing, and this was necessary for survival.

Theres a tradition still alive in the amazon , and you can see similar themes in other cultures such as with the rishis of india and herbalism in china, where the wise men, the leaders, were basically people who lived on very limited diets that were known to be pure, and then experimented with various other plants and foods and spoke about them and documented their findings. In the amazon as an example, the shamans basically would live on a diet without salt, spices, or anything with excess flavor, similar to how indian rishis would live on rice milk or kichari or things like that, and then basically live in the woods for months on end testing various plants and seeing how they affected them...this is how many plants were discovered such as tobacco and maany others, that are still used today. They often have lore and stories attatched to them as to how they were discovered, and considering the circumstances they probably are true, and each cultures staple food, such as rice, or corn, were said to be divinely gifted and divinely guided into certain humans the knowledge of their cultivation. Even when Cortez went into mexico, they had an extensive 'labratory' or school, that transcended generations, of botany research.

Basically, humans have always been searching for an ideal diet, or what to eat, since pre agricultural times, have always had to study and often by trial and error poisoning, figure out what was even edible enough to get them to the next day, and the few things that have got us to where we are now, tho maybe not ideal, are really all we have and know at the present and in the past. Extensive systems of herbalism/food and even modern medicine is no different...its basically no one really knows how it all works and we are trying to find out, and figure out how to counterbalance one things cons with anothers pros, ect

that's basically what we are all doing here too, albeit with supermarket foods, but still

 

I don't understand why the effective protein content of fruit and potatoes is higher then the chemical content.

Can somebody elaborate on this ?

 

It isn't protein, it is keto-acids.

 

"But the fruit, generally, is evolved to serve to distribute the seeds, so it's evolved to be safe to the animals. Potatoes are the only vegetable protein which is of quality equal to egg yolk. It's actually a little higher in quality because it contains precursors to the essential amino acids; it has more protein in effect than it actually has in substance. And people misjudge potatoes because they are given as 2 to 4%, because wet potatoes are measured, where beans are measured in the dry state and have 40% protein, but...you have to divide the bean protein by 10 to make it equivalent to potatoes." - RP

 

It could be related to digestive efficiency. If you read last month's haidut thread about protein powders as replacement for people with weak digestion, it seems like a surprisingly small amount of the protein we eat is used. So if you eat something more bioavailable, you might not need much.

 

They contain keto acids. With the addition of an ammonia group, these keto acids can be turned into amino acids in the body. I think I calculated that if 1000g of potatoes has 21g of protein, the keto acids add an additional 14.5g of protein. So 1000g of potatoes would actually have 35.5g of protein. This is according to what Ray said on the subject IE comparing it to milk.



I've always been interested in the keto acid content of fruit. It sucks that Ray wasn't able to do that research. I'm guessing on an all fruit diet you'd be fine for protein. For one thing, eating a high sugar diet spares protein by preventing your body from using it as fuel. Doing a sample diet in cronometer, I would be getting 60g of protein if I ate only fruit @ 3,500 calories. This is a little low, but it's possible the keto acids could bring it up to 80g or something, who knows? Also on this diet I'd be getting 750mg calcium, which is not too bad considering it's all fruit. 1250mg of phosphorus, which makes a bad ratio, however fructose lowers phosphorus, so the calciumhosphorus might not be too bad. Every other nutrient is accounted for other than B12 and only 80% or so of zinc. Even vitamin K is 125% and selenium is 250% (from cherimoya). I am putting a lot of faith in the food database though.

Add in milk and you've got yourself a nice little diet.