Kasra's Q & A With Peat On A Fruitarian Diet

[Westside PUFAs]

From November 28th, 2013:

Kasra: "Dr. Peat, In one of your articles, you mention that fruits contain "carbon
skeleton" equivalents of the essential amino acids. Does this mean that the actual protein content of a fruit could be substantially greater than what a nutrition database says?"

Peat: "Yes, the way a potato's effective protein content is much higher than the chemical protein content."

Kasra: "Could this mitigate the problem of protein deficiency on an all-fruit diet?"

Peat: "Yes, but since there isn't much known about their ketoacid content, it would be best to have a wide variety of fruits. A couple of times in the last ten years I've started a project to test some fruits, but because of the new laws since 2001, I haven't able to buy the necessary reagents. It would have to be done in some government approved institution."

Kasra: "One more thing - is B12 deficiency on an all-fruit diet likely? I've read that the gut flora produce B12 but that it isn't necessarily absorbed."

Peat: "Normally the bacteria can provide enough, but it's good to have some in the food too, for example milk."

Kasra: "How serious of a problem is vitamin A deficiency on an all-fruit diet?"

Peat: "Most fruits contain some carotene, and with vitamin B12 and good thyroid function, that will be turned into vitamin A."

Kasra: "If I were to eat a diet of nothing but milk and fruit, would you recommend high-fat or low-fat milk?"

Peat: "For people who don't do hard physical labor, low-fat milk is appropriate."

http://beesandbutterflies.org/32173/con ... fruit-diet

 

[Westside PUFAs]

"but because of the new laws since 2001, I haven't able to buy the necessary reagents." - RP

In other words, 9/11 prevented Peat from doing what would have been some amazing research on the protein content and quality of many different fruits. Sigh.

 

[pboy]

yea, it is annoying it would be nice to eventually have some data

this correlates with my experience because if I just drink brewed beverages with sugar, its obvious and I can always tell usually via craving for glutamate flavor like in cheese or just that my electricity is going down, into serotonin kinda feel, when ive run low on protein or its insufficient for metabolism. With fruit or fruit juice it takes significantly longer to hit that craving or even not at all for most of the day which is a trip, because it might be like 20g or less or protein...as long as I stay tonified and enough calories. I actually noted that a while back and kinda had no explanation, but if what Peat says is true, it makes sense, then most fruits probably have in the upwards of 1-2g more protein than listed per serving...it would have to be (or protein equivalent). Awesome post btw, I think its pretty important to read. I also wonder how long this fruit effect would last...once you've soaked up significant uric acid / ammonia kinda stuff to turn the keto skeletons into amino acids, you might eventually need to start eating actual amino acids. Its makes me think my body must have a pool of ammonia, and most people, that facilitates this for a little while...but for sure, fruit does seem to prolong/prevent protein cravings up to a point so long as a little density is added and enough calories/quality.

I keep wanting to test, and keep trying like I posted in the phosphate thread, a diet of mostly fruit, but it reminds me of all the problems associated with it. To be honest many fruits have issues, not to mention the fact that most available aren't worthy quality. I bought some 'tree ripe peaches' that turned completely moldy well before they turned actually ripe, and it infected the cantaloupe I bought. You got OJ which can be juiced and is ok, but eventually the tartness catches up and its like I cant handle any more of that. Berries and figs and stuff become harsh and annoying in the gut, apples/jucie/sauce and mangos are great but after a few the gut gurling starts, gas, ect..which is pretty certainly the excess of fructose not being absorbed...that actually leads to starch or more protein cravings than anything, presumably to soak up the fructose. So its pretty difficult even when you want to, to test such a thing.

Humans apparently are a really weird animal with a weird gut, compared to like every other animal in nature. Extremely sensitive basically, the most potential, but also probably the most sensitive of any animal. Theres very few things in nature humans can eat and not have to be balanced or get issues from. I also wonder if perhaps there was a time in history when other foods were available that since have goen extinct or morphed, and left humans in a situation of having to adapt. Apes survive off of figs as a huge part of their diet, something like 50-60% +, and this makes sense in the sense that figs are one of the few fruits that's very similar to human breastmilk (besides the protein being low, but if theres the keto amino acids that could explain things), and I wonder if really humans, if somehow we got ripe sources year round as is availbale in the jungles or Africa and that area, we would be well off eating 50-60% of our diet as figs. Figs that aren't very ripe become rough and inedible, irritating, and are major allergen promoters...so the way they are handled now days makes it impossible to test this, dried figs are nearly ok but they also change in the drying process...lots of c oumpounds change and the skin gets significantly tougher. Humans also seem to, presumably because of large brains and powerful glandular system and thyroid, have more a requirement for iodine, big time, than many other land animals. So maybe a diet of like ripe figs, some other stuff a little, and some sea food kinda stuff would be approaching ideal, but who knows really...this is the kidn of thing that takes serious testing by a certain type of person that must have access and lots of resources.

Milk is extremely unique in the sense it provides the sugar, nutrients, and iodine and abundant protein (tho too much isn't good for the brain) so its a very good tool, in the mean time.

I have huge respect for the people who developed cultures original foods and all that, I can only imagine what it took to discover what was edible and their properties and all that. In China theres a mythical although maybe based on a real person, figure, named Shen Nong who in pre agricultural times was said to have tested as many as a few hundred plants on himself every day, getting poisoned many times, to see which was edible and how they interacted (supposedly he turned green from poison, and it was said he had a transparent torso and could see what was happening inside him...which is probably a poetic metaphor similar to how the rishis of india would study themselves in meditative state, being extremely in tune with their body/mind connection). He discovered rice and tea and like kinda laid the foundation for what Chinese culture became in terms of diet and farming lifestyle. You have to keep in mind, before civilizations, people were basically nearly starved most of the time, foraging shwaggy berries and plants and hoping to get some meat each day, not really all there mentally, so to discover a staple food is a HUGE thing. Most cultures, such as the mesoamericans, and around the world, originally if you study and look at it before world wide systems of transporting things, lived on very limited diets and were very weary of foreign food, often rejecting them as poison at first, which makes sense and correlates to pre agricultural humans living on often poisonous food or whatever they could get and being kinda weary of anything that they weren't familiar with and was tested. Most cultures 'herbal' systems were the same thing as food, and it was all related...basically like what to survive on and how to use one poison to counteract another, kind of thing, and this was necessary for survival.

Theres a tradition still alive in the amazon , and you can see similar themes in other cultures such as with the rishis of india and herbalism in china, where the wise men, the leaders, were basically people who lived on very limited diets that were known to be pure, and then experimented with various other plants and foods and spoke about them and documented their findings. In the amazon as an example, the shamans basically would live on a diet without salt, spices, or anything with excess flavor, similar to how indian rishis would live on rice milk or kichari or things like that, and then basically live in the woods for months on end testing various plants and seeing how they affected them...this is how many plants were discovered such as tobacco and maany others, that are still used today. They often have lore and stories attatched to them as to how they were discovered, and considering the circumstances they probably are true, and each cultures staple food, such as rice, or corn, were said to be divinely gifted and divinely guided into certain humans the knowledge of their cultivation. Even when Cortez went into mexico, they had an extensive 'labratory' or school, that transcended generations, of botany research.

Basically, humans have always been searching for an ideal diet, or what to eat, since pre agricultural times, have always had to study and often by trial and error poisoning, figure out what was even edible enough to get them to the next day, and the few things that have got us to where we are now, tho maybe not ideal, are really all we have and know at the present and in the past. Extensive systems of herbalism/food and even modern medicine is no different...its basically no one really knows how it all works and we are trying to find out, and figure out how to counterbalance one things cons with anothers pros, ect

that's basically what we are all doing here too, albeit with supermarket foods, but still

 

[Kasper]

I don't understand why the effective protein content of fruit and potatoes is higher then the chemical content.

Can somebody elaborate on this ?

 

[Such_Saturation]

It isn't protein, it is keto-acids.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

"But the fruit, generally, is evolved to serve to distribute the seeds, so it's evolved to be safe to the animals. Potatoes are the only vegetable protein which is of quality equal to egg yolk. It's actually a little higher in quality because it contains precursors to the essential amino acids; it has more protein in effect than it actually has in substance. And people misjudge potatoes because they are given as 2 to 4%, because wet potatoes are measured, where beans are measured in the dry state and have 40% protein, but...you have to divide the bean protein by 10 to make it equivalent to potatoes." - RP

 

[jyb]

I don't understand why the effective protein content of fruit and potatoes is higher then the chemical content.

Can somebody elaborate on this ?

It could be related to digestive efficiency. If you read last month's haidut thread about protein powders as replacement for people with weak digestion, it seems like a surprisingly small amount of the protein we eat is used. So if you eat something more bioavailable, you might not need much.

 

[schultz]

I don't understand why the effective protein content of fruit and potatoes is higher then the chemical content.

Can somebody elaborate on this ?

They contain keto acids. With the addition of an ammonia group, these keto acids can be turned into amino acids in the body. I think I calculated that if 1000g of potatoes has 21g of protein, the keto acids add an additional 14.5g of protein. So 1000g of potatoes would actually have 35.5g of protein. This is according to what Ray said on the subject IE comparing it to milk.



I've always been interested in the keto acid content of fruit. It sucks that Ray wasn't able to do that research. I'm guessing on an all fruit diet you'd be fine for protein. For one thing, eating a high sugar diet spares protein by preventing your body from using it as fuel. Doing a sample diet in cronometer, I would be getting 60g of protein if I ate only fruit @ 3,500 calories. This is a little low, but it's possible the keto acids could bring it up to 80g or something, who knows? Also on this diet I'd be getting 750mg calcium, which is not too bad considering it's all fruit. 1250mg of phosphorus, which makes a bad ratio, however fructose lowers phosphorus, so the calcium:phosphorus might not be too bad. Every other nutrient is accounted for other than B12 and only 80% or so of zinc. Even vitamin K is 125% and selenium is 250% (from cherimoya). I am putting a lot of faith in the food database though.

Add in milk and you've got yourself a nice little diet.

 

[Travis]

There is a surprising paucity of data on this subject but I managed to find two papers on the keto-acid content of fruits and vegetables. The first one that I found, Organic Acids in the Ripening Banana Fruit', determined the presence of eight keto-acids in bananas.

Eight keto acids were detected in an extract of 40 g of ripe pulp. Pyruvic, a-ketoglutaric, oxaloacetic and glyoxylic acids were tentatively identified by chromatography of the phenylhydrazones and the identities were then confirmed by hydrogenation of the hydrazones and chromatographic identification of the resulting amino acids. Beta-hydroxypyruvic, a-ketoisocaproic and/or a-keto-,8-methylvaleric acids and 2 unknown compounds were detected only as amino acid derivatives.

But other people have found more:

Steward et al. (20) have recently reported the presence of 30 organic acids in alcoholic extracts of the banana fruit. Malic and citric acids were predominant; the other acids occurred in trace amounts. These workers also detected 22 keto acids by extraction of the phenylhydrazonies.

But unforunately, this paper does not tell us what we need to to know: namely, the mass of the keto-acids per mass of fruit. They state:

No attempt was made to obtain quantitative data on the keto acids.

So we know that they are there, but we don't know how much is really present. Some indication of this is present in Estimation of a-Keto Acids in Plant Tissue: a Critical Study of Various Methods of Extraction as Applied to Strawberry Leaves, Washed Potato Slices and Peas. What they found was that the keto-acid content varied greatly depending on what extraction procedure was used. Apparently when the cell walls are broken in a blender at room temperature, the enzymes present destroy some keto-acids and create others. For this reason, the most accurate data is found in Table 7, where they flash-froze the specimens in dry ice and methanol and carried out the extraction in an ice bath. But this study doesn't really tell us what we want to know either, since only 3 keto-acids out of perhaps 22 were actually measured. The strawberry leaves measured the highest at 27.9mg per 100g. This equates to 1.27g of keto-acids per pound of leaves.

But remember that they only measured 3 separate keto-acids, so this should be considered the absolute minimum.

The amount of protein in one pound of kale is 15g, so we can perhaps safely add 1.27 grams of keto-acids to that figure. The exact amount in fruit and vegetables remains elusive, but I will keep looking.

 

[Jennifer]

@Travis - Dr. Robert Morse has mentioned a few times in his videos about his friend, a three doctorate professor in Canada who studied food and chemistry for the greater part of his life, who found the banana and blueberry to be nutritionally complete for humans or as he stated "nature's perfect food." I've thought about writing Dr. Morse to see if there were a way to contact his friend and/or read up on his work to get more details about his fruit findings, specifically. I've had a fascination with the fruit-based diet ever since coming across Arnold Ehret's work and my subsequent two year stint with 80/10/10 almost a decade ago. It's what attracted me to Ray's work, initially. I was bummed when I learned that Ray had tried but was unable to acquire the necessary reagents to test fruit so it would be really exciting for me (I seriously need a life ) to see what Dr. Morse's friend discovered.

Since January of this year, I've been living off of just fruit and fruit veggies supplemented with fresh herbs and the occasional salad of baby lettuces. So far, I've maintained my weight and though it's been slow going, I've continued to see steady improvements in health. I've managed this while consuming the same amount of calories I was consuming on my previous animal-based Peaty diet. I've only lost about two pounds total since cutting out all animal products back in August of 2015. After the initial switch to 100% plant-based, I tried keeping my protein intake at Ray's recommended amount by including pounds of immature potatoes daily to my existing fruit diet, but eventually had to switch to potato juice when the starch caused some previous bacterial overgrowth symptoms to return. Eventually, the potato juice became unpalatable and quite honestly, a pain to make in the volume needed to get the required amount of protein everyday so I decided to test out if my current diet could maintain my weight.

Anyhow, thank you for your post. I'm excited to see if you come across anything else. I'll be sure to update this thread if I do manage to get in contact with Dr. Morse's friend or read up on his studies.

 

[Richiebogie]

Apes survive off of figs as a huge part of their diet, something like 50-60%

Wow, Thanks Pboy, I didn't know this...

Figs are pretty high in calcium - raw figs have 8 times more calcium than raw bananas. I will put them in my daily routine!

Hi @schultz, it sounds like Ray would prefer certain fruits to potatoes if he found the same amount of keto acids in them.

Hi @Jennifer, have you tried adding a 300g serving of fish, shrimp or oysters to your raw vegan diet once a week to see if you feel fitter for it...?

It would be interesting to know if fruit is missing some trace minerals. Dr Joel Wallach is keen on supplements to obtain these (he points out how a lot of athletes die in their 50's and younger because they sweat out the trace elements and don't replace them!) but Wallach's own high cholesterol foods + supplement diet does not seem optimal for him!

 

[Jennifer]

@Richiebogie - I experimented with a high fruit diet, supplemented with shellfish (mostly scallops and crab) and eggs, before finding Ray's work and for a brief time after I stopped Peating with dairy. I was eating smaller amounts of the shellfish and eggs daily, not just once a week, so maybe my experience would of been different, but I lived with this painful burning sensation in my spine, particularly where the worst of my compression fractures are, until I dropped all animal protein from my diet. Now I only get it mildly if I've been on my feet all day and even then, having some fruit when the pain hits gets rid of it within 5 minutes or so.

I also no longer get heart palpitations, anxiety attacks, a burning face/ears after eating and disturbing dreams. I fall asleep within minutes of my head hitting the pillow each night and sleep soundly until morning, at least 7 hours straight. However, my parathyroid and adrenal glands are still on the weaker side so I've been taking herbs to help support their regeneration, while the fruit clears out acids and metabolic waste. It's definitely working because my kidneys are finally filtering well on a daily basis, but it took me almost 8 months to achieve this. It's all good, though, because my energy and clarity of mind are incredible on this diet and I've gained so many improvements that keep me motivated. I finally feel like I have a solid foundation to apply some of the more organic Peaty tools without my body revolting against me. lol

 

[Richiebogie]

@Richiebogie - I experimented with a high fruit diet, supplemented with shellfish (mostly scallops and crab) and eggs, before finding Ray's work and for a brief time after I stopped Peating with dairy. I was eating smaller amounts of the shellfish and eggs daily, not just once a week, so maybe my experience would of been different, but I lived with this painful burning sensation in my spine, particularly where the worst of my compression fractures are, until I dropped all animal protein from my diet.

Thanks Jennifer. Sounds like you are better off without any animal foods! Perhaps by eating a range of fruits and greens you will get all your trace minerals. Do you get any fruit cravings which might suggest your body is telling you what to eat to balance your nutrients?

I love eating OJ, bananas, mango, berries, papaya, dates and dried figs but I have been eating a few hundred grams of animal foods too each day.

I feel good during the day but am very tired in the mornings. I might try cutting meat, dairy, eggs and seafood out for a week - maybe next week!

For years I ate about 60g of dark chocolate each day but giving that up seems to have improved my skin somewhat! Perhaps the MUFA, iron and peculiar vegetable matter is not so healthy. It is a highly processed food compared to fruit or oysters!

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks Jennifer. Sounds like you are better off without any animal foods! Perhaps by eating a range of fruits and greens you will get all your trace minerals. Do you get any fruit cravings which might suggest your body is telling you what to eat to balance your nutrients?

I love eating OJ, bananas, mango, berries, papaya, dates and dried figs but I have been eating a few hundred grams of animal foods too each day.

I feel good during the day but am very tired in the mornings. I might try cutting meat, dairy, eggs and seafood out for a week - maybe next week!

For years I ate about 60g of dark chocolate each day but giving that up seems to have improved my skin somewhat! Perhaps the MUFA, iron and peculiar vegetable matter is not so healthy. It is a highly processed food compared to fruit or oysters!

You're welcome, Richie! :)

I've noticed a few specific cravings. When my adrenals have been taxed from a stressful week, I start craving tomatoes, which I'm assuming is for the sodium. And since the weather turned cool here, I've been craving small amounts of fat from coconut, raw olives and avocado. During the summer, I only crave juicy fruits so my diet ends up being extremely low in fat.

I love all the same fruits as you. I always have 2 liters of fresh OJ daily and the rest depends on what's in season or ripest. Besides the OJ, my current staples are galia melons, semi-dried figs, mangos, grapes and dates. I love papaya, but it's hit or miss here. I've only managed to get two that didn't have that horrible vomit smell.

Have you always felt tired in the morning? Maybe one of your protein sources isn't agreeing with you? Before I dropped animal protein completely, I transitioned with eggs and then the potatoes, all while gauging my body's reaction. I think had I not, the switch would of been too much of a shock to my system, forcing me to go back to eating animal protein before I had a chance to feel the benefits I'm feeling now.

Hmm...that's a good question about your skin's reaction to chocolate. Do you normally do okay with starch, fat and fermented foods?

I'd be interested to hear how you do with dropping the meat. Are you logging your dietary experiments? I thought about logging mine again, now that I finally have a solid foundation to work off of.

 

[Richiebogie]

Have you always felt tired in the morning? Maybe one of your protein sources isn't agreeing with you?

Hi Jennifer, I have only felt tired since discovering Peat in March 2015, dropping grains and seeds and greatly increasing my fruit consumption.

I have been wanting 10 hours sleep a day! I have been much less stressed and grumpy since Peating though, so maybe there is not enough stress!

I have been watching Andrew Perlot's raw vegan channel each week also since March 2015 so I suspect raw veganism could be optimal.

But the 80 : 10 : 10 ratio may be more important than Peat thinks. Maybe fruit digestion interferes with animal protein digestion... Alkaline versus Acid or Fructose versus Fat+Protein or something, so I will trial the raw vegan diet starting today. My parents who cook for me once a week are going away so it is a good opportunity to trial it, but it will interfere with my daily cafe trips with my friend and his dog! I will have to order juice!

Recently I have been wondering why a number of raw vegans have thin and grey hair. I first thought it was low zinc to copper ratio but now I wonder if it is low sulfur... Apparently rubbing onion on your head or eating raw garlic can help your hair, so maybe raw vegans are wrongly avoiding these foods...?

Sulfur, Silicon and Iodine are all missing from the NutritionData Self Tracking website (and possibly from Cronometer too) so it is easy to forget these nutrients.

Anyway I will let you know how my experiment goes. I fasted until 2pm today before my first fruit meal. It will take another day for the last 48 hours of milk, lobster, eggs, feta and veal to have cleared my system!!!

Keto acids, start your engines!

 

[Travis]

The papaya vomit smell only occurs with Asian papayas. I have yet to get that with a Caribbean papaya; and I have bought hundreds of them in my life.

Buy New World papayas, but not the ones from Hawaii. You are running into GMO territory with those.

I like to make papaya noodles with the Ultra Sharp Stainless Steel Dual Julienne & Vegetable Peeler with Cleaning Brush & Blade Guard from Amazon.com.

I am not an amazon shill, I swear!

 

[Jennifer]

Hi Jennifer, I have only felt tired since discovering Peat in March 2015, dropping grains and seeds and greatly increasing my fruit consumption.

I have been wanting 10 hours sleep a day! I have been much less stressed and grumpy since Peating though, so maybe there is not enough stress!

I have been watching Andrew Perlot's raw vegan channel each week also since March 2015 so I suspect raw veganism could be optimal.

But the 80 : 10 : 10 ratio may be more important than Peat thinks. Maybe fruit digestion interferes with animal protein digestion... Alkaline versus Acid or Fructose versus Fat+Protein or something, so I will trial the raw vegan diet starting today. My parents who cook for me once a week are going away so it is a good opportunity to trial it, but it will interfere with my daily cafe trips with my friend and his dog! I will have to order juice!

Recently I have been wondering why a number of raw vegans have thin and grey hair. I first thought it was low zinc to copper ratio but now I wonder if it is low sulfur... Apparently rubbing onion on your head or eating raw garlic can help your hair, so maybe raw vegans are wrongly avoiding these foods...?

Sulfur, Silicon and Iodine are all missing from the NutritionData Self Tracking website (and possibly from Cronometer too) so it is easy to forget these nutrients.

Anyway I will let you know how my experiment goes. I fasted until 2pm today before my first fruit meal. It will take another day for the last 48 hours of milk, lobster, eggs, feta and veal to have cleared my system!!!

Keto acids, start your engines!

Oh, yeah! I've seen some of Andrew's videos.

I personally notice a difference with how I combine my foods, but my gut is probably more finicky than the average person's given the mess it became while consuming all that dairy and then taking antibiotics to counter the negative effects.

Yeah, eating out can be tough on this diet. Since most places have salads, I usually end up having that and then making up the calories when I get home. I really only dine out to enjoy the company, anyway.

Hmm...I know from a Dr. Morse's perspective the possible reasons for greying and thinning hair on a raw vegan diet. Well, even from a Peat perspective. We'd have to know the type of raw vegan diet being consumed, any organ/gland weaknesses, lifestyle stressors including excess exercising etc. I personally wouldn't base my raw diet around too many nuts and seeds or other fatty and harder to digest foods.

For iodine and other trace minerals, I see a lot of raw vegans consuming nori and kelp, as well as Himalayan sea salt. For silicon, I consume a tincture that includes horsetail, but supposedly bell peppers, apples, oranges, raisins, grapes, cucumbers, spinach, radishes, romaine lettuce, tomato, almonds and flaxseeds are also high in silicon.

Haha! Sounds like you're well on your way! Good luck!

 

[Jennifer]

The papaya vomit smell only occurs with Asian papayas. I have yet to get that with a Caribbean papaya; and I have bought hundreds of them in my life.

Buy New World papayas, but not the ones from Hawaii. You are running into GMO territory with those.

I like to make papaya noodles with the Ultra Sharp Stainless Steel Dual Julienne & Vegetable Peeler with Cleaning Brush & Blade Guard from Amazon.com.

I am not an amazon shill, I swear!

Haha! No worries! I appreciate you mentioning the peeler, and the papaya noodles. I bought a Kuhn Rikon julienne peeler a couple months ago and love it! I make cucumber noodles with it, but was trying to think of other foods I could make noodles out of. I was making zoodles, but came to the conclusion that I only like zucchini cooked.

Do you live in a warmer climate? I ask because the only papayas I go for are the Caribbean reds, and very rarely do I find one that has enough yellow on it so that it semi ripens. Usually, they grow mold before they have a chance to soften, let alone turn orange, so I'm thinking that part of the reason for the vomit smell is they're actually rotting?

 

[Travis]

Weird. I have never had a Caribbean Red display the papaya vomit smell. It has always been the ones that I had got from the Asian supermarkets.

Yes, I live in Wisconsin. I found that the ones they sell at Wal-Mart to be good. Wal-Mart is certainly not my favourite store, but they have very cheap Papayas ($1.30/lb) and Costa Rican Pineapples ($2.70) [Del Monte Gold to be precise. These are consistently good].

Zucchini noodles have a nice texture IMO, but the are not flavorful. The only way that I enjoy eating them is with mushed avocado; as sort of guacamole salad akin to pasta [eaten with wooden chopstix].

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks for telling me about the papaya and pineapple at Wal-Mart, Travis. I went and got some today. :)

And of all things, they had rambutans. Go Wal-Mart!

I think where I went wrong with the zucchini noodles was marinating them in lemon juice. I was trying to soften them to a more pasta like texture and though it worked extremely well, the lemon was too much. I made one dish with an heirloom tomato, mango and basil sauce and it was surprisingly good, but then there was that overpowering lemon.

My other sauce I made from avocado and chive and that combo mixed with the lemon made me sick and I haven't wanted the zoodles since. I'll probably give them another try, but instead of using lemon juice, I'll let the zoodles marinate in the sauce.