If You Don't Want Low Testosterone DO NOT FAST

[gbolduev]

It is amazing how many people feel bad at 29, 25, 26. Crazy. I remember at 26 I could digest nails, fast, eat , not eat, drink milk , drink 1.5 liter of rum daily for a year. . Oh well. It must be something in the air. or may be too many young people follow trends too much these days. with all these stupid diets. I think at 25-26 I never even thought about what to eat, what not to eat. I just ate what I felt. And here you meet people at 24 with problems. at 29 with problems. Wow. I thought problems start at 50 or something.

 

[Tarmander]

Okay I have to ask, what is fast oxidizer/slow oxidizer? It has suddenly popped up in every thread recently. I'm not being funny, I actually don't know what it is.

I found some sort of definition using google but the definitions given seem vague and I can't find any papers discussing it. Is there some other term used for it that I can type into pubmed?

The whole slow/fast oxidizer thing is tough because adrenal hormones are involved. Generally Gbold is talking about sodium/potassium, or CA/P ratios. Peat makes an interesting distinction between them and thyroid which gbold really does not make.

I remember flipping back and forth between fast and slow while doing ARL for a couple years. When I was living in an EMF hot zone, I was definitely a fast oxidizer as not eating was extremely stressful, and I was constantly going going going. I read through a lot of EMF studies and one in particular stood out that showed an increased metabolism on the side of the brain that the person used their phone on (increased glucose consumption I believe). From that I determined that EMF and wifi are basically blue light that you cannot see, they speed up your metabolism, they tell your body it is time to be awake! Under that pressure full time you get loaded up with the adrenal hormones.

After moving to an EMF dead spot, I had a mini collapse before getting on thyroid. This was back in March. Exhausted and sagging. Now I would bet, especially from the high Co2 blood work, that I am a slow oxidizer. I can go longer without eating, less adrenaline, less exercise intolerance.

 

[gbolduev]

@gbolduev ,

Hi, whats your height and weight, have decent muscle mass?

I am 6' 3. 90kg or 200 lb. I am lean, I swim. so muscles are good for swimming.

When I was sick , I gained crazy amount of weight to over 270lb. First time in my life, I was always lean.

 

[Ledo]

It is amazing how many people feel bad at 29, 25, 26. Crazy. I remember at 26 I could digest nails, fast, eat , not eat, drink milk , drink 1.5 liter of rum daily for a year. . Oh well. It must be something in the air. or may be too many young people follow trends too much these days. with all these stupid diets. I think at 25-26 I never even thought about what to eat, what not to eat. I just ate what I felt. And here you meet people at 24 with problems. at 29 with problems. Wow. I thought problems start at 50 or something.

Well you said you got hit relatively young, asbestos exposure, a toxin causing a disease, I made it to 48 then the SHTF.

The 3 causes of disease, toxins, infection, mal nutrition, throw in lifestyle but Jamanet lumps that in the toxin category. Its really good and he has a protocal to go after the infection and toxins, and diet. He intermittent fasts

 

[tca300]

*Edit I'm staying out of this... I have bigger fish to swim

 

[Ledo]

I am 6' 3. 90kg or 200 lb. I am lean, I swim. so muscles are good for swimming.

When I was sick , I gained crazy amount of weight to over 270lb. First time in my life, I was always lean.

Wow, that is fantastic, you have to understand people are skeptical, gurus look like ***t. With all the fasting we thought you looked like skeletor. Is your bone mass, your frame solid with the fasting too?

 

[gbolduev]

Belittling sick people is very kind of you. Also demonstrating you are very healthy and can get away with torturing yourself more than others without experiencing the same consequences. Taking advice from someone who is very healthy and never had to or successfully recovered from sickness seems pointless.. especially when they give no evidence for their claims.

I had 2 cancers my friend. I almost died. I had melanoma and lymphoma. I would not wish it to anyone. My wife died that year from the poisoning that we got at the construction site.. I got carried away over to Cyprus by my business partner on tranquilizers since I could not walk , I had constant panic attacks. This was 5 years ago

Doctors killed my wife in front of my eyes. the cut her open and a huge fountain of green bile was pouring out of her like a whale. I promised that I will never see those imbeciles again, and started to learn how to help myself. I tried everything .
So I suffered plenty

I was joking around about sick people here.. Just making a conversation.
No clue why you took this so personal.

 

[haidut]

Feel like there is a strawman floating around.

Who said Haidut is not a great guy and that fasting is good in all cases. Nobody around here I think not even Gbol. He is arguing FOR BALANCE not against.

This board has a myopia where it can't see what already makes sense if it doesn't say so in a bogus study or said by Peat. Infection, take a drug or supp, studies say beneficial. Peat says it will go away with high metabolism take thyroid. Toxic metals, same thing just ignore it will go away. Eat fructose get bad digestive problem its ok, blue pill peat and bunch of lying studies its ok.

Come on this is rediculous, peat can't fix these he maybe gets 2 out of 3 on Jamanet list (Jamanet adds lifestyle too so don't go there). Peat might have big problem with nutrition so maybe he wiffs on all three.

This is not good enough. Peat didn't get there himself, his teeth fell out. I love the guy but his teeth fell out, comeon.

This alt health BS needs a way to quantify these 3 things, infection, toxins, mal nutrition and it cure. Gbol is stepping up to the plate, Peat is benched, studies are benched, must keep it simple because as Shultz says the quest is bad for health. Hormones are benched too...the masters degree in making you crazy.

Gbold up to the plate, 2 ball, 2 strikes...

I don't have a problem with balance. I have a problem with chasing balance that is different for "metabolic types", which may turn out to be just maladapted metabolic states. My main point (which did not come across clearly I guess) was that we ALL come from a fast oxidizer past as children. Even @gbolduev stated that in one of his older posts. Restoring that fast oxidation all of us had as children is all Peat is about, at least as far as I understand it. It is hard to argue that children are much healthier than adults. Yes, people have different lifestyles and will end up with different imbalances and metabolic states. But the point is they were optimal at some point, and Peat points out what he thinks is/are the causes to get into these suboptimal states and how to try and reverse it. He even said that long distance runners can adapt and even (temporarily) thrive on a very low calorie high fat diet. Same with fasting - good for some young/healthy people but probably not something most adults over 30 can endure for a long time. Again, I know I am a fast oxidizer according to Eck so it is probably a biased opinion. But that is what Peat is all about (according to me).
I guess the big discrepancy is one camp is saying these metabolic types are set in stone and people should learn to live with them while the other camp is saying they can be changed.

 

[gbolduev]

Well you said you got hit relatively young, asbestos exposure, a toxin causing a disease, I made it to 48 then the SHTF.

The 3 causes of disease, toxins, infection, mal nutrition, throw in lifestyle but Jamanet lumps that in the toxin category. Its really good and he has a protocal to go after the infection and toxins, and diet. He intermittent fasts

I got hit by asbestos and lead from a construction site . It was a nightmare. It completely screwed up all my systems. My wife got mesothelioma from it and died within a year, I got lymphoma and a melanoma. Since my copper was just not working at all from lead toxicity. Panic attacks, I felt like my head was disconnected from my body. can you imagine that feeling you walk on the street and your head is 1 foot away fro your neck feeling. It was the weirdest things that i have ever experienced. I had fatique like crazy, I lost most of my hair. It was just the END

 

[haidut]

I am 6' 3. 90kg or 200 lb. I am lean, I swim. so muscles are good for swimming.

When I was sick , I gained crazy amount of weight to over 270lb. First time in my life, I was always lean.

What about the adrenal adenoma that gave you Cushing? Didn't that give you some fat around midsection and back? Did you get the adenoma cut out?

 

[gbolduev]

I don't have a problem with balance. I have a problem with chasing balance that is different for "metabolic types", which may turn out to be just maladapted metabolic states. My main point (which did not come across clearly I guess) was that we ALL come from a fast oxidizer past as children. Even @gbolduev stated that in one of his older posts. Restoring that fast oxidation all of us had as children is all Peat is about, at least as far as I understand it. It is hard to argue that children are much healthier than adults. Yes, people have different lifestyles and will end up with different imbalances and metabolic states. But the point is they were optimal at some point, and Peat points out what he thinks is/are the causes to get into these suboptimal states and how to try and reverse it. He even said that long distance runners can adapt and even (temporarily) thrive on a very low calorie high fat diet. Same with fasting - good for some young/healthy people but probably not something most adults over 30 can endure for a long time. Again, I know I am a fast oxidizer according to Eck so it is probably a biased opinion. But that is what Peat is all about (according to me).

no they did not , I tested many children, all dif oxidation rates. Wilson stated lies about it and I might have repeated them 5 years ago. I tested some kids at 4-8, at 16-18 . All different metabolic rates. From very slow oxidizers to very fast oxidizers. It could not be different Their organs are created differently. You understand that if you adrenal output is faster than your thyroid output lets say , boom you are a fast oxidizer. Kids could not be created as fast oxidizers. that is not valid.

That is why all people different, and oxidation rate rarely changes. Only if you were toxic with something, and you chelate it or you were difficent in something and you add it. but oxidation rate will not change if you take stuff.

It will always snap back after you finish your supplements.

As you get older, your oxidation rate can change, if some of the organs stop functioning and change their regime. lets say you had adrenal gland stronger output, but slower thyroid, and boom your adrenal gland got slower, then you will change the oxidation rate when you age.

And this oxidation change as you age can change from slow to fast and from fast to slow. depending on the speed of aging of certain organs. like if your kidney is getting weak, you can go into really fast oxidation.

 

[tca300]

I had 2 cancers my friend. I almost died. I had melanoma and lymphoma. I would not wish it to anyone. My wife died that year from the poisoning that we got at the construction site.. I got carried away over to Cyprus by my business partner on tranquilizers since I could not walk , I had constant panic attacks. This was 5 years ago

Doctors killed my wife in front of my eyes. the cut her open and a huge fountain of green bile was pouring out of her like a whale. I promised that I will never see those imbeciles again, and started to learn how to help myself. I tried everything .
So I suffered plenty

I was joking around about sick people here.. Just making a conversation.
No clue why you took this so personal.

If you had mentioned being sick ( cancer etc ) earlier I didnt see it. All I saw was you gloating about being super healthy at a young age. I was a very sick child and it reached a peak at my teen years, I took it personal because your acting like young people who are sick is a self inflicted thing or not true.
I think you need to work on your conversational skills if you see that as an appropriate approach to starting a conversation.

 

[haidut]

no they did not , I tested many children, all dif oxidation rates. Wilson stated lies about it and I might have repeated them 5 years ago. I tested some kids at 4-8, at 16-18 . All different metabolic rates. From very slow oxidizers to very fast oxidizers. It could not be different Their organs are created differently. You understand that if you adrenal output is faster than your thyroid output lets say , boom you are a fast oxidizer. Kids could not be created as fast oxidizers. that is not valid.

That is why all people different, and oxidation rate rarely changes. Only if you were toxic with something, and you chelate it or you were difficent in something and you add it. but oxidation rate will not change if you take stuff.

It will always snap back after you finish your supplements.

As you get older, your oxidation rate can change, if some of the organs stop functioning and change their regime. lets say you had adrenal gland stronger output, but slower thyroid, and boom your adrenal gland got slower, then you will change the oxidation rate when you age.

What do you think determines the innate oxidation rate at birth? Genes, pregnancy environment, etc?

 

[gbolduev]

What about the adrenal adenoma that gave you Cushing? Didn't that give you some fat around midsection and back? Did you get the adenoma cut out?

got rid of it . I am perfect now. All lean, no bloat. nothing

 

[gbolduev]

What do you think determines the innate oxidation rate at birth? Genes, pregnancy environment, etc?

minerals from mother, genetic build of every organ. size of the organ. toxicities at birth. Many things.

that is why you see fat little kids , skinny little kids, red little kids ( acidosis) pale kids alkalosis. they are all different.

So the sooner a kid learns how to balance himself, the better.

 

[dalejxen]

I got hit by asbestos and lead from a construction site . It was a nightmare. It completely screwed up all my systems. My wife got mesothelioma from it and died within a year, I got lymphoma and a melanoma. Since my copper was just not working at all from lead toxicity. Panic attacks, I felt like my head was disconnected from my body. can you imagine that feeling you walk on the street and your head is 1 foot away fro your neck feeling. It was the weirdest things that i have ever experienced. I had fatique like crazy, I lost most of my hair. It was just the END

What you describe after the panic attack is "depersonilization disorder " (I pm'd you about this) i suffered from this feeling after a severe bunch of panic attacks for over a year but made a full recovery. great you're doing better!

 

[haidut]

got rid of it . I am perfect now. All lean, no bloat. nothing

Surgery or did it disappear as a result of RU 486 treatment?

 

[Ledo]

Gbold, if a person has a high metabolic rate determined by pulse and temp, say 85 bpm resting and 98.6f, 37c, with normal or low adrenal hormone output are they automatically going to be a fast oxidizer?

 

[DuggaDugga]

Yes, in obese men which already have a poor hormone profile, poor insulin sensitivity and metabolic profile prior to even going into the fast. I wouldn't fast if I was obsese as you have many many other issues to get in order first.

From the study I showed earlier healthy and non obese men had a significant improvement in hormone profile with no issues.

Effects of eight weeks of time-restricted feeding (16/8) on basal metabolism, maximal strength, body composition, inflammation, and cardiovascular risk factors in resistance-trained males

After 8 weeks, the 2 Way ANOVA (Time * Diet interaction) showed a decrease in fat mass in TRF compared to ND (p = 0.0448), while fat-free mass, muscle area of the arm and thigh, and maximal strength were maintained in both groups. Testosterone and insulin-like growth factor 1 decreased significantly in TRF, with no changes in ND (p = 0.0476; p = 0.0397). Adiponectin increased (p = 0.0000) in TRF while total leptin decreased (p = 0.0001), although not when adjusted for fat mass. Triiodothyronine decreased in TRF, but no significant changes were detected in thyroid-stimulating hormone, total cholesterol, high-density lipoprotein, low-density lipoprotein, or triglycerides. Resting energy expenditure was unchanged, but a significant decrease in respiratory ratio was observed in the TRF group.

The fasted groups had lower testosterone, lower T3, and overall lower respiration than the controls.
I don't find this surprising given what 16-hours of no food is communicating to your body about energy availability. Depleted glycogen stores lowers the conversion of T4 to T3, and T3 is involved in testosterone synthesis. Down-regulated respiration isn't surprising either. If you're not eating, your body would logically down-regulate metabolism to go longer on less while down-regulating non-essential functions like libido, anabolic metabolism of sex and muscle cells, etc.

Interestingly, the fasting group lost more fat mass (started lower at baseline). These were weight-lifters who likely had substantial muscle mass going into the study and they continued to lift throughout the course of the study, so the demands of their muscles. Myocytes primarily burn fat rest, so it stands to reason they burned through their fat faster than the non-fasters. So a trained athlete can fast to cut weight, something wrestlers, fighters, competitive body builders exploit for their respective sports.

I wish they had reported other hormones: cortisol, estrogen, and prolactin particularly.
There are lots of studies on fasting increasing cortisol, but it would have been interesting to see how resilient athletes would be to one of the common repercussions of fasting.

What are your thoughts on this study?

 

[jaa]

SAY IT ISN'T SO!!!!!

I'd bet against it. Maybe in his pre UFC USADA days, but he's the most tested fighter on the roster, works like a mofo and has crazy body awareness and control, and has cardio issues that PEDs could solve. If he's using, he's both very good and very bad at it.