If You Don't Want Low Testosterone DO NOT FAST

Discussion in 'Male Issues' started by AretnaP, Sep 25, 2017.

  1. AretnaP

    AretnaP Member

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    There is a particular user on this forum who had been proposing fasting as a way of "resetting the receptors".

    The idea of course being that if you have low levels of a hormone you will experience an increased number of the proteins that the hormone interacts with. I am highly skeptical of this idea, and think it's dangerous advice. One area that this almost certainly isn't true in is the androgenic hormones.

    As somebody who has spent a few years posting on bodybuilding/fitness forums I can tell you that when this comes to androgen this is absolutely not the case. When the good fellas over at the misc, getbig, anabolicminds, and steroidology forums look in to this topic they usually find the same, consistent results: the more androgens you have the more ARs you have.

    This article perfectly sums up what you need to know.

    In summary: Very high (bodybuilder doses) amounts of androgens increase the density of androgen receptors, without question. There have been some studies where going from zero to normal levels of testosterone have shown a decrease in androgen receptors, this could very well be because of estrogen (estrogen downregulates AR receptors itself).

    The most important information is below:

    -very high levels of testosterone/androgen increases AR density, this is almost 100% certain

    -this has been confirmed in many actual humans (because there are many men who use steroids) and consistent increases in AR density is observed

    -we have had very few chances to observe the effects of going from low to normal testosterone on male AR density, since lowering T so much would be bad for the subject's health

    -given high level androgen use's effect on ARs it would seem likely that the decease in estrogen could explain the increase of ARs in extremely low testosterone environment

    The idea that the decrease in testosterone seen in people who fast for long periods will be made up for by increased AR density rests on very little evidence, in fact the evidence points to receptors liking high testosterone, and proliferating in a high-androgen environment.

    If you care about having optimal hormones DO NOT FAST.
     
  2. Drareg

    Drareg Member

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    Good post
    Basically you have to use it to build function,body adapts to functional needs.

    there problem in that thread is having all the hormones but insensitivity to them but weirdly sensitive to the hormones of stress?
    It’s the post finasteride and post Ssri issue.
     
  3. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Great post, thanks!
    And yes, in clinical studies they often use the potent androgens R1881 and DHT to increase AR density, not decrease it.
     
  4. Dhair

    Dhair Member

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    During fasting, the body goes into a state of chronic metabolic stress, and it begins to essentially eat itself alive for energy. According to Ray Peat, this process will begin with dissolving the thymus gland and then move on to the vital organs.
    I suspect people feel good after fasting because their cortisol is high but doesn't fluctuate too much in that state, which is well known to cause a feeling of euphoria in some people. As far as the "resetting" of the "receptors" is concerned, I will not even consider it as a valid theory until it is confirmed by before and after blood tests in multiple subjects.
    I think this thread is necessary as a warning to those who are desperate and considering this approach. My health is in shambles right now, but I would not embark on a 10 day fast if you put a gun to my head.
     
  5. cyclops

    cyclops Member

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    I'm not about to fast for 40 days and lose all my gains.
     
  6. charlie

    charlie The Law & Order Admin

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    Great post!!
     
  7. DuggaDugga

    DuggaDugga Member

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    I've tried explaining this in multiple threads, but for whatever reason many members of this forum refuse to observe the evidence that cortisol is a stress hormone. Anything that drives up your cortisol will lead to general insulin resistance, decreased conversion of thyroxine to T3, decreased testosterone production, and many outcomes we wouldn't desire outside of a truly stressful situation. It's an intelligent response by the body to stressful stimuli. The things that testosterone promote in man are not things that your body perceives itself to be able to afford when enduring stress like fasting, low-carbing, intense "exercise", etc.
     
  8. cyclops

    cyclops Member

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    Why does super high levels of stress hormones cause euphoria? Seems like a crazy way for things to be.
     
  9. Drareg

    Drareg Member

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    It’s ok they have all the hormones just insensitive to the "good" hormones but sensitive to the bad,stuck in this mode.
    Black and white,black and white solution.
     
  10. DuggaDugga

    DuggaDugga Member

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    Promote resilience in the face of an enduring stress
     
  11. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Which makes it all the more important to note that fasting is not for everybody. When somebody asked Peat about it, he said only young and healthy people MAY benefit from fasting. Sick people should not fast he said.
     
  12. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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    Why body reacts to androgens like that and increases ARs density?
     
  13. Drareg

    Drareg Member

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    To signal to other healthy humans to slowly back away.......
     
  14. haidut

    haidut Member

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    Also beta-endorphins. If you are running from a lion and tripping and breaking joints on the way it helps if you do not feel much pain. Cortisol increases endorphins and this is why people get the runner's high after a few minutes.
     
  15. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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    First time I hear ray has said fasting can be beneficial for some people!
     
  16. haidut

    haidut Member

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    One proposed explanation is that the steroids that the body likes have a positive feedback/sensitization mechanism. So, androgens are in that group and I think so it thyroid. Estrogen and cortisol are NOT.
     
  17. alywest

    alywest Member

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    I mean, isn't it similar to the idea that doing something risky creates an "adrenaline rush" that people come to crave? Does that make it good? Obviously even Peat will say that all the hormones, even estrogen and serotonin have their uses. But what are the ramifications of having those hormones flood your system until you start to actually crave them and think of those feelings as normal and positive? Runner's high comes to mind.
     
  18. paymanz

    paymanz Member

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    Maybe increased glucose and free fatty acid , and in the same time antiinflammatory effect of cortisol makes you feel good for a while.
     
  19. haidut

    haidut Member

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    It was on one of the KMUD interviews. Some guy asked him about intermittent fasting. He said only intermittent and only in young/healthy people can there be a benefit.
     
  20. alywest

    alywest Member

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    Once you start to associate those feelings as positive because they are meant to balance out a highly stressful situation, they become the norm by design as people will intentionally create stressful situations in order to induce the hormones. But the body is not meant to have those highly stressful situations all the time, which is why things like war are so incredibly destructive, particularly to the everyday people who have to endure all of the loss and trauma.
     
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