Is Beard Growth Androgen, Estrogen, or Nitric Oxide related? Or all the above?

[dhtsupreme]

As I learn more about androgens and estrogen I realized I have and have had friends across the spectrum of being very "androgenic" and others being very "estrogenic". By androgenic I mean good muscle structure, drive, confidence, and manly facial features indicative of high androgens and I guess even prenatal androgens(greater facial width to height).

On the other hand some of my friends are very "estrogenic". Passive personalities whether introverted or extroverted, very emotional, high body fat, sedentary, eating only fast foods and garbage packed in plastics.

The ones that are "estrogenic" have full beards yet the "androgenic" ones do not or have minimal growth. It's confusing when I read posts and articles saying total coverage of beard hair is testosterone related and speed of growth is dht related. And people here mentioning exogenous T or DHT increased their beard growth.

On the other hand, I've read posts where beard hair is unhealthy indicative of higher estrogens causing increased adrenal androgens and cortisol responsible for beard and unwanted body hair growth.

Or that it's not really the hormones themselves it's the androgen receptors and flow of nutrients and hormones that is nitric oxide related hence the success people have with minoxidil and derma roller.

What's your take on this? I'm curious if anyone else has observed the same or something else. And can better explain the relationship of these hormones and their effects on beard growth. Thank you!

 

[Ignoramus]

For what it's worth, my beard suddenly filled in once when I started using cyproheptadine. I don't have blood work, so I can only speculate as to why that is. I do feel different these days; calmer and 'slower'. I think I'm more likeable but less productive.

 

[redsun]

As I learn more about androgens and estrogen I realized I have and have had friends across the spectrum of being very "androgenic" and others being very "estrogenic". By androgenic I mean good muscle structure, drive, confidence, and manly facial features indicative of high androgens and I guess even prenatal androgens(greater facial width to height).

On the other hand some of my friends are very "estrogenic". Passive personalities whether introverted or extroverted, very emotional, high body fat, sedentary, eating only fast foods and garbage packed in plastics.

The ones that are "estrogenic" have full beards yet the "androgenic" ones do not or have minimal growth. It's confusing when I read posts and articles saying total coverage of beard hair is testosterone related and speed of growth is dht related. And people here mentioning exogenous T or DHT increased their beard growth.

On the other hand, I've read posts where beard hair is unhealthy indicative of higher estrogens causing increased adrenal androgens and cortisol responsible for beard and unwanted body hair growth.

Or that it's not really the hormones themselves it's the androgen receptors and flow of nutrients and hormones that is nitric oxide related hence the success people have with minoxidil and derma roller.

What's your take on this? I'm curious if anyone else has observed the same or something else. And can better explain the relationship of these hormones and their effects on beard growth. Thank you!

People with high levels of heat production emanating will not grow much hair, whether it is face or body to allow for loss of heat. Tend to be undermethylated types. Thyroid has to be high as well. It may have to do with the fact that high thyroid keeps SHBG high, so DHT which has the highest affinity for SHBG and is also necessary for beard growth, cannot exert its effect as strongly.

Also it may be the fact that genetically some people have less 5AR activity.

 

[dhtsupreme]

Got it! Undermethylators have trouble breaking down histamine right? That could be a reason why @Ignoramus experienced increased beard growth with cyproheptadine (antihistamine)

How can we keep SHBG from binding to DHT? @redsun

 

[redsun]

Got it! Undermethylators have trouble breaking down histamine right? That could be a reason why @Ignoramus experienced increased beard growth with cyproheptadine (antihistamine)

How can we keep SHBG from binding to DHT? @redsun

I think its about lowering total SHBG if you want more DHT effect but you can have low SHBG and low androgens. Raising androgens through dietary and supplementary means may raise DHT. B-vitamins are vital cofactors for steroid hormones for example, so is vitamin A and iron, zinc, etc... User thebeard was able to significantly raise T levels just from Thorne B complex, which I think is one of the better ones.

I dont personally think its worth chasing beard growth. You can look good without one. What is more important is having high testosterone, which should naturally convert to DHT and E2 in the right amounts. T is primarily responsible for deep voice, muscular development, sex drive and function which are the main classical male attributes you need imo.

If T is good, your DHT should be in a good place as well (not high or low). Get lean to improve facial appearance, get some muscle, be hygienic and look clean. Those massively improve appearance and self-confidence, no need for a beard.

 

[dhtsupreme]

I think its about lowering total SHBG if you want more DHT effect but you can have low SHBG and low androgens. Raising androgens through dietary and supplementary means may raise DHT. B-vitamins are vital cofactors for steroid hormones for example, so is vitamin A and iron, zinc, etc... User thebeard was able to significantly raise T levels just from Thorne B complex, which I think is one of the better ones.

I dont personally think its worth chasing beard growth. You can look good without one. What is more important is having high testosterone, which should naturally convert to DHT and E2 in the right amounts. T is primarily responsible for deep voice, muscular development, sex drive and function which are the main classical male attributes you need imo.

If T is good, your DHT should be in a good place as well (not high or low). Get lean to improve facial appearance, get some muscle, be hygienic and look clean. Those massively improve appearance and self-confidence, no need for a beard.

I agree. When you have it together, you won't be in your head as much

I'm pretty young and have been fortunate to come across Dr. Peat's work and use Haidut's idealabs products. I'm not concerned about beard growth for looking good, more so curious as to how it works and why there's contradictions as to what causes/promotes beard growth like using minoxidil vs raising T/DHT. Thanks for the recommendations

 

[equipoise]

In my experience it's definitely correlated with masculinity hence T.

 

[Hans]

As I learn more about androgens and estrogen I realized I have and have had friends across the spectrum of being very "androgenic" and others being very "estrogenic". By androgenic I mean good muscle structure, drive, confidence, and manly facial features indicative of high androgens and I guess even prenatal androgens(greater facial width to height).

On the other hand some of my friends are very "estrogenic". Passive personalities whether introverted or extroverted, very emotional, high body fat, sedentary, eating only fast foods and garbage packed in plastics.

The ones that are "estrogenic" have full beards yet the "androgenic" ones do not or have minimal growth. It's confusing when I read posts and articles saying total coverage of beard hair is testosterone related and speed of growth is dht related. And people here mentioning exogenous T or DHT increased their beard growth.

On the other hand, I've read posts where beard hair is unhealthy indicative of higher estrogens causing increased adrenal androgens and cortisol responsible for beard and unwanted body hair growth.

Or that it's not really the hormones themselves it's the androgen receptors and flow of nutrients and hormones that is nitric oxide related hence the success people have with minoxidil and derma roller.

What's your take on this? I'm curious if anyone else has observed the same or something else. And can better explain the relationship of these hormones and their effects on beard growth. Thank you!

Much of the driven personality is due to dopamine and histamine. Sometimes it's also linked to excess glutamate. Testosterone is known to increase dopamine. Bread growth depends on IGF-1, which also increases DHT. IGF-1 also boosts head hair growth.

 

[theantagonist]

Thyroid and ray peat diet sped up beard growth about 3x.
Adding prog, preg, DHEA, andro increased that another 3x: So in total 9x.
I would suspect most effects coming from Androsterone

T levels have not changed om my blood labs during that time. However, blood levels don't necessarily reflect tissue levels.

* increases in head, arm and chest hair as well.

 

[dhtsupreme]

Would high T and DHT increase IGF-1 or is it only through high IGF-1 DHT increases? @Hans

For motivation/drive I've have had success with increasing dopamine and T/DHT production. Just tried L-histidine a few days ago with B vitamins (B3,B6,B9). Very potent

I have a question about the excess glutamate problem. I think I might have too much gaba and low glutamate. I have used compounds to raise gaba (L-theanine, androsterone, taurine etc.

Is it safer to use L-glutamine to raise glutamate naturally while providing all vitamins/minerals/amino acids (ex. B6, zinc, mag, taurine) to let the brain/body convert what's necessary to gaba instead of only raising gaba? @Hans

 

[dhtsupreme]

That's a lot of estrogen antagonism. How many mgs of prog, preg, dhea, andro were you using? @theantagonist

 

[theantagonist]

That's a lot of estrogen antagonism.

You would think... Estrogen still was "high". Prolactin was 10.5, knowing that it has a correlation of 0.87. Estrogen probably still elevated.
Interesting to see what will happen next few weeks. Adding 1,5 grams of niacinamide and 1 gram of aspirin, to lower estrogen.
+ I had a vit D deficiency, not entirely sure how that would influence all of that. But correcting that as well.

Cortinon 8::1 3 drops/ forehead, navel, oral
Pansterone 3 drops/ gonads
Androsterone 1-2 drops/ navel, oral

24mg pro, 3mg preg, 6mg DHEA, 3 mg andro

* PUFA depleted, that might be a factor as well

 

[dhtsupreme]

You would think... Estrogen still was "high". Prolactin was 10.5, knowing that it has a correlation of 0.87. Estrogen probably still elevated.
Interesting to see what will happen next few weeks. Adding 1,5 grams of niacinamide and 1 gram of aspirin, to lower estrogen.
+ I had a vit D deficiency, not entirely sure how that would influence all of that. But correcting that as well.

Cortinon 8::1 3 drops/ forehead, navel, oral
Pansterone 3 drops/ gonads
Androsterone 1-2 drops/ navel, oral

24mg pro, 3mg preg, 6mg DHEA, 3 mg andro

* PUFA depleted, that might be a factor as well

Maybe tissue estrogen is getting released? 10.5 prolactin isn't too bad, I think Dr. Peat recommended around 7 but it varies throughout the day. 24mg is a lot of progesterone. Please keep us updated


Vitamin D is a big deal and easy to overlook. Below is a URL to Mr. Amato's article on vitamin D. It's a steroid more than anything

Vitamin D, the steroid vitamin » TESTONATION

Vitamin D is actually a hormone (steroid) and not a vitamin, as our bodies can synthesize vitamin D from UVB rays from the sun and convert it into its active form which then acts as a hormone in the body. It’s very difficult to get all our vitamin D from food sources alone, and we ... Read more

men-elite.com

"Vitamin D is positively associated with total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (fT) and lower SHBG (5, 6, 7). Increases seen for TT are between 17.8% to 25% and 20% to 22% for fT depending on BMI, nutrition status, vitamin D level and supplemental dose. (8, 9)"

 

[theantagonist]

Maybe tissue estrogen is getting released? 10.5 prolactin isn't too bad, I think Dr. Peat recommended around 7 but it varies throughout the day. 24mg is a lot of progesterone. Please keep us updated


Vitamin D is a big deal and easy to overlook. Below is a URL to Mr. Amato's article on vitamin D. It's a steroid more than anything

Vitamin D, the steroid vitamin » TESTONATION

Vitamin D is actually a hormone (steroid) and not a vitamin, as our bodies can synthesize vitamin D from UVB rays from the sun and convert it into its active form which then acts as a hormone in the body. It’s very difficult to get all our vitamin D from food sources alone, and we ... Read more

men-elite.com

"Vitamin D is positively associated with total testosterone (TT), free testosterone (fT) and lower SHBG (5, 6, 7). Increases seen for TT are between 17.8% to 25% and 20% to 22% for fT depending on BMI, nutrition status, vitamin D level and supplemental dose. (8, 9)"

Thanks. I thought I was good with 2 drops of calcirol. But I'm getting minimal sun exposure, winter & Corona. So I added 6000 iu oral Vitamin D.

Probably get new bloodlabs in a month.

 

[Hans]

Would high T and DHT increase IGF-1 or is it only through high IGF-1 DHT increases? @Hans

For motivation/drive I've have had success with increasing dopamine and T/DHT production. Just tried L-histidine a few days ago with B vitamins (B3,B6,B9). Very potent

I have a question about the excess glutamate problem. I think I might have too much gaba and low glutamate. I have used compounds to raise gaba (L-theanine, androsterone, taurine etc.

Is it safer to use L-glutamine to raise glutamate naturally while providing all vitamins/minerals/amino acids (ex. B6, zinc, mag, taurine) to let the brain/body convert what's necessary to gaba instead of only raising gaba? @Hans

Protein, milk, carbs, insulin, zinc, magnesium, DHEA, exercise, etc., can increase IGF-1. But it depends on tissue expression of IGF-1 and I haven't looked into anything that can increase IGF-1 locally with a topical.

Why would you say you have low glutamate?

 

[golder]

Thanks. I thought I was good with 2 drops of calcirol. But I'm getting minimal sun exposure, winter & Corona. So I added 6000 iu oral Vitamin D.

Probably get new bloodlabs in a month.

Can you let us know tbe updated blood labs with your oral 6000iu vitD daily? Fingers crossed it improves for you.

 

[dhtsupreme]

Protein, milk, carbs, insulin, zinc, magnesium, DHEA, exercise, etc., can increase IGF-1. But it depends on tissue expression of IGF-1 and I haven't looked into anything that can increase IGF-1 locally with a topical.

Why would you say you have low glutamate?

So through these methods we can raise IGF-1 and indirectly increase DHT. Both can increase beard growth. Many thanks! Would be interesting if there's a topical way to increase it locally

I say that because of lack of motivation/focus at times. I remember glutamate can raise/inhibit dopamine as needed and everything I've ever taken or done is anti-glutamate. I'm too relaxed/chill for certain situations where a little more oomph would significantly add to my productivity

 

[dhtsupreme]

Thanks. I thought I was good with 2 drops of calcirol. But I'm getting minimal sun exposure, winter & Corona. So I added 6000 iu oral Vitamin D.

Probably get new bloodlabs in a month.

Np like what @James b said. If you can, keep us updated. Good luck

 

[Hans]

So through these methods we can raise IGF-1 and indirectly increase DHT. Both can increase beard growth. Many thanks! Would be interesting if there's a topical way to increase it locally

I say that because of lack of motivation/focus at times. I remember glutamate can raise/inhibit dopamine as needed and everything I've ever taken or done is anti-glutamate. I'm too relaxed/chill for certain situations where a little more oomph would significantly add to my productivity

Try to avoid any pro-GABA supplements then and use only those that can increase dopamine. Cordyceps might actually be a good option as it can increase glutamate, dopamine and GABA, so it's well balanced.

Improvement of Learning and Memory Induced by Cordyceps Polypeptide Treatment and the Underlying Mechanism

Our previous research revealed that Cordyceps militaris can improve the learning and memory, and although the main active ingredient should be its polypeptide complexes, the underlying mechanism of its activity remains poorly understood. In this study, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The results showed that Cordyceps polypeptide could improve the learning and memory in these mice, increase the serum SOD activity, decrease the serum MDA content, reduce AChE activity, increase Na+-k+-ATPase and eNOS activity, and increase GABA and Glu levels in the brain tissue of the mice."

 

[dhtsupreme]

Try to avoid any pro-GABA supplements then and use only those that can increase dopamine. Cordyceps might actually be a good option as it can increase glutamate, dopamine and GABA, so it's well balanced.

Improvement of Learning and Memory Induced by Cordyceps Polypeptide Treatment and the Underlying Mechanism

Our previous research revealed that Cordyceps militaris can improve the learning and memory, and although the main active ingredient should be its polypeptide complexes, the underlying mechanism of its activity remains poorly understood. In this study, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"The results showed that Cordyceps polypeptide could improve the learning and memory in these mice, increase the serum SOD activity, decrease the serum MDA content, reduce AChE activity, increase Na+-k+-ATPase and eNOS activity, and increase GABA and Glu levels in the brain tissue of the mice."

Awesome I will definitely try cordyceps. Could be just what I need. Thank you