How To Keep Protein From Spiking Adrenaline

[Arctic Fire]

one more thing, be very careful with b7. It’s easy to crash blood sugar. Low doses are best

Yes, thanks. Relative only takes 1 mg doses, which he tolerates well.

 

[oldfriend]

Yes, thanks. Relative only takes 1 mg doses, which he tolerates well.

Good. I don't have a thread, no. I take Doctor's Best Quali-C, 3g a day. You have to make sodium acetate with baking soda and vinegar. Instructions are here The Cure for SIBO (and other conditions)

 

[Arctic Fire]

Good. I don't have a thread, no. I take Doctor's Best Quali-C, 3g a day. You have to make sodium acetate with baking soda and vinegar. Instructions are here The Cure for SIBO (and other conditions)

Thanks, man.

 

[Travis]

Would value your thoughts on how to avoid high stress hormones after eating protein.

A relative of mine gets crazy surges of stress hormones after minor stresses, including eating meals with more than roughly 15 g of protein. He's likely already protein deficient, so these surges are a big problem.

The adrenaline surges can come shortly after eating or (more often) 1-3 hours later. Typically, among other symptoms, he gets anxious/agitated and somewhat short of breath, he feels sensations of cranial pressure, and his blood pressure rises. Sometimes also gets chills or dry mouth. The surges last for hours.

We try to make sure that at each meal he gets gelatin if necessary to balance inflammatory amino acids as well as enough carbs and sat fat to balance the protein. He begins each meal with a few spoonfuls of ice cream and often ends a meal with a tablespoon of coconut oil. He shoots for at least 3X as much carbs as protein at each meal.

It seems like the surges are worse with liver and eggs than other proteins, but as far as we can tell, all proteins cause the surges if he eats enough of them.

Once a surge has started, even large amounts of sugar, sat fat, and salt don't usually do much.

The adrenaline surges tend to be worst (and most common) after lunch, but that pattern might reflect the timing of his clonidine doses.

Questions for you:
- Anyone with similar experiences?
- Any ideas about what's causing this reaction to protein? If just hypoglycemia, why doesn't sugar shut it down?
- Roughly what ratios of carbs to protein and sat fat to protein at each meal would you recommend for someone with high stress hormones?
- Any thoughts about how to prevent/avoid these reactions and get my relative more protein? Long shots are welcome.

Thanks for your help and insights.

Background on my relative:
- Eats mostly fruit, fruit juice, cheese, ice cream, gelatin, oysters, other shellfish, raw carrot, cooked mushrooms, and to extent he can tolerate them, eggs and liver. Experiments with starch have gone badly.
- He has low vitamin D, high TSH, high serum lactic acid.
- We think he may be deficient in several B vitamins and want to give him plenty of liver but...adrenaline.
- Appetite is poor.
- Generally can't take pro-metabolic supps like thyroid, aspirin, caffeine, pregnenolone, or adrenaline gets much worse.
- To improve his balance of CO2 to lactic acid, he takes B1, B7 (biotin), and low doses of acetazolamide. Also tapes his mouth at night.
- Takes clonidine for the adrenaline spikes. It helps, but not enough.
- Because of the adrenaline problem he is sedentary and has to avoid bright sunlight (adrenaline trigger).

I have felt this with eating egg white, and think it occurs from the high tyrosine levels. This could have more to do with speed of absorption than total protein content, so eating a time-release protein could be ideal. I thinking mixing egg white with cheese may slow down the tyrosine spike, and also that adding vegetables could help.

Eggs are cheap, versatile, and habit-forming, but commercial varieties sold in America do have between about 20–25% linoleic acid (18∶2ω−6). I had stopped eating the yolks for this reason, and had stopped eating the whites due to the aforementioned catecholamine spike.

 

[Arctic Fire]

Thank you, @Travis. Interesting point about tyrosine. Liver, another protein source that gives my relative a lot of trouble, is also fairly high in tyrosine. Off the top of my head, not sure how quickly the proteins in liver absorb. We can experiment with combining proteins and adding some well-cooked vegetables.

I have felt this with eating egg white, and think it occurs from the high tyrosine levels. This could have more to do with speed of absorption than total protein content, so eating a time-release protein could be ideal. I thinking mixing egg white with cheese may slow down the tyrosine spike, and also that adding vegetables could help.

Eggs are cheap, versatile, and habit-forming, but commercial varieties sold in America do have between about 20–25% linoleic acid (18∶2ω−6). I had stopped eating the yolks for this reason, and had stopped eating the whites due to the aforementioned catecholamine spike.

 

[Arctic Fire]

Updates...

(1) Increased relative's B1 dose. Result: Significantly increased tolerance for all proteins except liver, other cuts of beef, and oysters.

(2) Increased his salt intake. Result: Less "dry mouth."

(3) Relative experimented with haidut's magnoil supplement (only 5-10 drops at a time). Result: Sometimes magnoil made him feel relaxed, other times it seemed to make him agitated (perhaps because it stimulated bowel movement?). He hasn't experimented enough yet to reach any firm conclusions.

(4) He now seems to tolerate energin (B1, B2, B3, B6, B7 supplement) OK, at least in low doses. He's up to 6 drops 2X/day. Have not seen big benefits yet, but we hope energin will eventually fix lingering B deficiencies.

(5) He still reacts very badly to liver and beef, and sometimes oysters. These foods can give him symptoms (anxiety, shortness of breath, small GI spasms and other strange GI sensations) for hours after he eats them, often resulting in insomnia. Any ideas/guesses about why these foods are causing problems?

Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

 

[ebs]

stop the coconut oil...its a medium chain fatty acid that goes straight to the liver and can cause adrenaline spikes or energy bursts and not always in a positive way. some people have an allergic reaction to it and this could definitely trigger adrenaline or ketone allergy

the problem is mixing protein, carb, and fat can elevate insulin for about 4-6 hours and if he is hypoglycemic then this is 4-6 hours of low blood sugar and adreanline spikes. combinging protein,fat, carb/starch at a meal for long term can lead to insulin resistance also.

this video talks about insulin spikes with various food combincations starting at the 35 minute mark



he may be better off simply eating carbs like salad or just rice with no or very low protein and skip the fat. adding fat to any meal will increase the length of insuline spike and this will be how long his hypoglycemic attack will be...

if he has msucle wasting then adding some weight lifting excercises will help and will also give the sugar a place to go. if he is insulin resistance then his body is reacting to the high blood glucose and dumping a lot of insulin to take care of it.

So are you suggesting to eat protein without carbs or just very low protein? If so, that goes against the general advice on the forum. What are you saying exactly?

 

[fradon]

So are you suggesting to eat protein without carbs or just very low protein? If so, that goes against the general advice on the forum. What are you saying exactly?

you eat as you see fit.

the comment was meant to show how food combining can spike insulin and lead to low blood sugar in some poeple which could trigger a stress responsie with adrealine. if you wanna know more watch the video

 

[DavidGardner]

(5) He still reacts very badly to liver and beef, and sometimes oysters. These foods can give him symptoms (anxiety, shortness of breath, small GI spasms and other strange GI sensations) for hours after he eats them, often resulting in insomnia. Any ideas/guesses about why these foods are causing problems?

Liver contains 418 - 426 mg of choline per 100 g cooked, which is second only to egg yolk. Choline rich foods are very stimulating, to me at least. Maybe also they are just more difficult for him to digest.

 

[Arctic Fire]

Liver contains 418 - 426 mg of choline per 100 g cooked, which is second only to egg yolk. Choline rich foods are very stimulating, to me at least. Maybe also they are just more difficult for him to digest.

Thanks for this insight, @DavidGardner. He now seems to tolerate egg yolks (without the egg whites) just fine. We have given up on liver for the moment, but will have to try a small portion again some time when he has one of his good days.

 

[Dezertfox]

Updates...

(1) Increased relative's B1 dose. Result: Significantly increased tolerance for all proteins except liver, other cuts of beef, and oysters.

(2) Increased his salt intake. Result: Less "dry mouth."

(3) Relative experimented with haidut's magnoil supplement (only 5-10 drops at a time). Result: Sometimes magnoil made him feel relaxed, other times it seemed to make him agitated (perhaps because it stimulated bowel movement?). He hasn't experimented enough yet to reach any firm conclusions.

(4) He now seems to tolerate energin (B1, B2, B3, B6, B7 supplement) OK, at least in low doses. He's up to 6 drops 2X/day. Have not seen big benefits yet, but we hope energin will eventually fix lingering B deficiencies.

(5) He still reacts very badly to liver and beef, and sometimes oysters. These foods can give him symptoms (anxiety, shortness of breath, small GI spasms and other strange GI sensations) for hours after he eats them, often resulting in insomnia. Any ideas/guesses about why these foods are causing problems?

Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

did he take magnoil orally?

 

[Arctic Fire]

did he take magnoil orally?

He took it topically, on wrists/arms.

 

[jet9]

Updates...

(1) Increased relative's B1 dose. Result: Significantly increased tolerance for all proteins except liver, other cuts of beef, and oysters.

(2) Increased his salt intake. Result: Less "dry mouth."

(3) Relative experimented with haidut's magnoil supplement (only 5-10 drops at a time). Result: Sometimes magnoil made him feel relaxed, other times it seemed to make him agitated (perhaps because it stimulated bowel movement?). He hasn't experimented enough yet to reach any firm conclusions.

(4) He now seems to tolerate energin (B1, B2, B3, B6, B7 supplement) OK, at least in low doses. He's up to 6 drops 2X/day. Have not seen big benefits yet, but we hope energin will eventually fix lingering B deficiencies.

(5) He still reacts very badly to liver and beef, and sometimes oysters. These foods can give him symptoms (anxiety, shortness of breath, small GI spasms and other strange GI sensations) for hours after he eats them, often resulting in insomnia. Any ideas/guesses about why these foods are causing problems?

Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

Hi there, any new updates?

 

[Antonello]

Updates...

(1) Increased relative's B1 dose. Result: Significantly increased tolerance for all proteins except liver, other cuts of beef, and oysters.

(2) Increased his salt intake. Result: Less "dry mouth."

(3) Relative experimented with haidut's magnoil supplement (only 5-10 drops at a time). Result: Sometimes magnoil made him feel relaxed, other times it seemed to make him agitated (perhaps because it stimulated bowel movement?). He hasn't experimented enough yet to reach any firm conclusions.

(4) He now seems to tolerate energin (B1, B2, B3, B6, B7 supplement) OK, at least in low doses. He's up to 6 drops 2X/day. Have not seen big benefits yet, but we hope energin will eventually fix lingering B deficiencies.

(5) He still reacts very badly to liver and beef, and sometimes oysters. These foods can give him symptoms (anxiety, shortness of breath, small GI spasms and other strange GI sensations) for hours after he eats them, often resulting in insomnia. Any ideas/guesses about why these foods are causing problems?

Thanks to everyone who has contributed.

I think is the sugar that creates acidity. Switch to starch and see if helps

 

[Gone Peating]

I know RP said once in an interview that it could be a good idea to eat carbs 15 minutes prior to a heavy protein meal so that the liver has adequate glycogen stores before taking in all that protein.

He mentioned specifically eating a piece of fruit, but I think bread/starch would be fine too. I'm not as opposed to starch as Peat seems to be