Ice Cream Causes Anxiety Attacks

[lindsay]

Yeah I think weight gain is pretty much expected when you've been through the ringer. And I definitely have so I am not trying to stay thin while I recover. I was just noticing some changes in my body but all the while not really healing. I am done trying to pursue specific macro diets as the cure all. I do think I suffer from low blood sugar symptoms so carbs are very important for me, but not at the expense of everything else. I was curious how people made the low fat diet work. Fruitarianism still intrigues me and probably always will, I love fruit, and wish I lived in a tropical place, but alas I don't!

As I used to say when I first started "healing", coming down off of stress hormones sucks. They feel really good for a reason and hide a myriad of problems. That being said, if you really feel terrible eating a certain way, you should definitely question why. For instance, dairy intolerance is a real thing and worth noting. I realized that the best form of dairy protein for me was aged cheese & cream rather than milk (whole or low fat) - and I have to be very picky about what kind too. I went through some stomach issues recently and tried cutting out things that might be triggering it. Since I am unable to conquer (and don't really care to conquer) my nightly obsession with a plate of aged cheese, I simply switched to sheeps' milk cheese to see if it digests better. I think it does and I think most people would actually tolerate dairy if they found what kind worked - but should never force themselves to tolerate it. I also think that serotonin and estrogen play a much bigger roll in the bloating and weight gain than in actual fat gain. I seemed to put on like ten pounds in fluid when I started menstruating again recently and my stomach was a mess - I kept telling myself it was probably hormonal and now it's gone away when the 3 week menstrual period finally ended. I've lost an ovary, an appendix and a gallbladder over the last ten years and was in a pretty bad place when I discovered RP. It's taken me a long time to "heal" (past the three year point) and I'm sure it will be an ongoing process, but I always took a very different view from RP than most people did. The holistic view has always been more important to me than the diet itself. I derive more energy and wellbeing from activities I enjoy than from eating 1,000 calories in sugar - for instance. Engaging my creative brain was incredible for reducing serotonin for me and makes me feel instantly more energetic and happy (and it's free). Travel has also been very useful. And certain supplements have been necessary for me personally, due to my lack of the above 3 things I mentioned.

Anyhow, find what works for you and don't feel like you have to stick to some rigorous diet. That will likely never work because it just puts added stress on you when you are trying to find healing. There are basic principles of nutrition and then there are insane dietary mandates. It's up to you to find the nutrition that works for you

 

[Jennifer]

Thanks so much, I can't remember if we have talked before but I have read quite a bit of your log, I am so happy for you that you found what works. Actually I was wanting to ask more about it just wasn't sure what to ask, fruit diets really appeal to me. I love melon as well! I am growing cantaloupe this year because I find it easy and rewarding to grow. And nothing beats ripe melon! And I eat watermelon most of the season. But have found I still need salt to balance the liquid so when you talked with that guy yuraz I believe it was about sodium only from foods I was intrigued. I always wondered how fruitarians fare so well without salt! But with doing the high everything style diet I learned that eating too much salt meant my heart would pound at bedtime. So if I do salt I try to balance with fruit.

Yeah I also have WAPF in my background and actually I think I did a lot better with local raw milk but it got too expensive.

Yeah being a caregiver can be so exhausting!

Aww..thank you! Yeah, it's weird looking back at my log because my mindset is so different now. At that time I was chasing symptoms and digging myself deeper in a hole. Now when I start to overanalyze what's going on with my body, I'm quick to remind myself that I'm going to experience some uncomfortable symptoms from time to time, so I no longer panic thinking I'm doing something wrong with my diet.

But yeah, plants are full of mineral salts so I don't worry about forcing extra salt in my diet. I think forcing huge amounts of salt when we don't crave it runs the risk of throwing our other electrolytes out of balance and causing issues like you experienced. This is just me, but I feel better getting my sodium from fruits and veggies because I don't end up with a surge of adrenaline like I used to with sea salt. But I certainly have no qualms with using some if I want it. Same with bread. I crave a French bread veggie grinder every now and then. Sweet fruits are my favorite, but I also like something savory during the day. I'm currently on a cooked zucchini, dill and supersweet corn kick.

Ooh...I love cantaloupe! Have you ever tried a Charentais melon? They're a French melon and IMHO, heavenly!

 

[Jennifer]

I started menstruating again recently

Aww...that's great, Lindsay! Are you still high dosing progest-e or have you been able to reduce your dose?

Anyhow, find what works for you and don't feel like you have to stick to some rigorous diet. That will likely never work because it just puts added stress on you when you are trying to find healing. There are basic principles of nutrition and then there are insane dietary mandates. It's up to you to find the nutrition that works for you :)

Couldn't agree more! :)

 

[lollipop]

I want to circle back to what @lindsay wrote above and I responded to with "This."

I just saw this research that confirms bias against people who are "rounder" by "leaner" men - especially in low blood sugar moments. This is a true concern in our society and is not receiving adequate discussion:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160803111802.htm

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I have been a few days without coffee/caffeine and i have a feeling that this is what i need to do..

I haven't had major anxiety issues for a while but still i haven't been totally happy with my mood. And i've been really tired all the time no matter what i eat.

Now my mood and energy level have started to feel more normal. Better concentration, better imagination, more motivation. Normal and care-free. :)

I do love coffee. Used to drink 5-10 cups a day. It's been surprisingly easy though to be without it.

 

[InChristAlone]

As I used to say when I first started "healing", coming down off of stress hormones sucks. They feel really good for a reason and hide a myriad of problems. That being said, if you really feel terrible eating a certain way, you should definitely question why. For instance, dairy intolerance is a real thing and worth noting. I realized that the best form of dairy protein for me was aged cheese & cream rather than milk (whole or low fat) - and I have to be very picky about what kind too. I went through some stomach issues recently and tried cutting out things that might be triggering it. Since I am unable to conquer (and don't really care to conquer) my nightly obsession with a plate of aged cheese, I simply switched to sheeps' milk cheese to see if it digests better. I think it does and I think most people would actually tolerate dairy if they found what kind worked - but should never force themselves to tolerate it. I also think that serotonin and estrogen play a much bigger roll in the bloating and weight gain than in actual fat gain. I seemed to put on like ten pounds in fluid when I started menstruating again recently and my stomach was a mess - I kept telling myself it was probably hormonal and now it's gone away when the 3 week menstrual period finally ended. I've lost an ovary, an appendix and a gallbladder over the last ten years and was in a pretty bad place when I discovered RP. It's taken me a long time to "heal" (past the three year point) and I'm sure it will be an ongoing process, but I always took a very different view from RP than most people did. The holistic view has always been more important to me than the diet itself. I derive more energy and wellbeing from activities I enjoy than from eating 1,000 calories in sugar - for instance. Engaging my creative brain was incredible for reducing serotonin for me and makes me feel instantly more energetic and happy (and it's free). Travel has also been very useful. And certain supplements have been necessary for me personally, due to my lack of the above 3 things I mentioned.

Anyhow, find what works for you and don't feel like you have to stick to some rigorous diet. That will likely never work because it just puts added stress on you when you are trying to find healing. There are basic principles of nutrition and then there are insane dietary mandates. It's up to you to find the nutrition that works for you :)

Thanks again for your thoughts Lindsay. I'm definitely not going to try the strict low fat diet when I do have orthorexic tendencies as it is and fear food. I need to engage my brain in better ways than online chatting too, its been my crutch since getting ill. I even got my first DSLR camera back over the winter so I could try to get out of my head and have a hobby, but I have barely used it I love photography by the way :)

 

[InChristAlone]

Aww..thank you! Yeah, it's weird looking back at my log because my mindset is so different now. At that time I was chasing symptoms and digging myself deeper in a hole. Now when I start to overanalyze what's going on with my body, I'm quick to remind myself that I'm going to experience some uncomfortable symptoms from time to time, so I no longer panic thinking I'm doing something wrong with my diet.

But yeah, plants are full of mineral salts so I don't worry about forcing extra salt in my diet. I think forcing huge amounts of salt when we don't crave it runs the risk of throwing our other electrolytes out of balance and causing issues like you experienced. This is just me, but I feel better getting my sodium from fruits and veggies because I don't end up with a surge of adrenaline like I used to with sea salt. But I certainly have no qualms with using some if I want it. Same with bread. I crave a French bread veggie grinder every now and then. Sweet fruits are my favorite, but I also like something savory during the day. I'm currently on a cooked zucchini, dill and supersweet corn kick.

Ooh...I love cantaloupe! Have you ever tried a Charentais melon? They're a French melon and IMHO, heavenly!

I'm done chasing symptoms too! I have looked into Robert Morse, I might check him out again. I am intrigued again by your info about kidneys. I really believe without healthy kidneys everything suffers. Also I want to know more about salt causing adrenaline like symptoms, do you know why this is? People say salt helps adrenaline. I have not tried many different kinds of melon. So far only the typical ones, and musk melons... I LOVE musk melons. I want to grow those in the future, but since I know Hale's best grow well I chose those.

 

[InChristAlone]

I have been a few days without coffee/caffeine and i have a feeling that this is what i need to do..

I haven't had major anxiety issues for a while but still i haven't been totally happy with my mood. And i've been really tired all the time no matter what i eat.

Now my mood and energy level have started to feel more normal. Better concentration, better imagination, more motivation. Normal and care-free. :)

I do love coffee. Used to drink 5-10 cups a day. It's been surprisingly easy though to be without it.

Yeah I have have positives and negatives from caffeine, it usually helps mood, but can trigger anxiety for me.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I'm a little disturbed by W&P's obsession with thin-ness and find it really unhealthy

I personally don't mind that you call it an "obsession" but I'm pretty sure if I called something you're passionate about an obsession, you wouldn't like it.

I'm also surprised to learn that for years you "ate" a low fat starch based diet to which you blame everything on but if we go back to peatarian.com and look at some of your old posts, it seems like you weren't eating that at all.

Do you think Peat is "obsessed" with thin-ness because 11 out of 14 women in his paintings are all thin?

 

[lindsay]

I personally don't mind that you call it an "obsession" but I'm pretty sure if I called something you're passionate about an obsession, you wouldn't like it.

I'm also surprised to learn that for years you "ate" a low fat starch based diet to which you blame everything on but if we go back to peatarian.com and look at some of your old posts, it seems like you weren't eating that at all.

Do you think Peat is "obsessed" with thin-ness because 11 out of 14 women in his paintings are all thin?

I remember Peatarian better than you...... And obsessions can be deadly. I once had an obsession with becoming super thin - I now try to channel it to creativity and eating what I crave, which I find much healthier. You didn't know me prior to Peatarian and I didn't post a lot of my past publicly with people there. I ate starch based and low fat for all of two or three weeks and got appendicitis (over a year into dietary experimentation). Before I discovered RP (so two years prior to the high starch thing), I had been pretty much low calorie and anorexic (and bulimic - which was a bi-product of my stomach problems, which made me fear food and how I would react to it). So I had troubles adapting to eating pretty much anything because everything bothers someone who has eaten very little for years.

It took me two weeks of a high starch and almost zero fat diet to get a massive infection and 103 F fever which landed me in the ER with appendicitis - which is incredibly deadly and terrifying, in case you didn't know that. For those of us who come from a history of high serotonin stomach problems, not eating enough fat with starch can be highly problematic. And in fact, eating anything can be highly problematic. Actually, it was probably my posts on Peatarian that got you interested in the high starch diet, but you probably don't remember that far - you were so dogmatic back then...... I went down that path and it ended terribly. And I admit that wholeheartedly and share my story so other people who are similar to me don't follow suit.

We are all different and high starch and pursuit of thin has seemingly worked great for you. But for me, it hasn't gone well EVER. I'm still thin and lean and strong and I have found that eating fat & sugar as fuel (with very little starch and adequate protein - probably less than what RP would recommend, but I just can't stomach more than 80 grams) works best for ME - it's not what I would like, but I have a difficult history, so I take what works. And I only post what I post because I don't want others to follow anyone else's path if it doesn't work - if higher fat intake is bad for some, then they shouldn't follow it. What works for ME won't necessarily work for YOU or OTHERS and vise versa. And, it's not about being thin - it's about being healthy. You should consider that more often. I had to gain weight to find equilibrium and it took a lot of pain for me to realize that and learn (and continue to learn) to be happy with myself. And RP's paintings of women are not thin - they are really what society in our day would call "fat" and "curvy", which is horrid. So if women here are listening to your ideas of being thin, they are not RP's paintings of women (those would be like Kate Winslet in the Titanic, when everyone was saying how fat she is) - women often associate thin and proper weight with emaciated. Because that's what we often think of as proper weight. So I wouldn't go encouraging women to pursue thin-ness if it will hinder her need for nutrition.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I went down that path and it ended terribly. And I admit that wholeheartedly and share my story so other people who are similar to me don't follow suit.

We are all different and high starch and pursuit of thin has seemingly worked great for you. But for me, it hasn't gone well EVER.

AMEN, BRAVO and ALL THAT!!!

p.s. Chef AJ really doesn't look that healthy to me.

 

[Atalanta]

I remember Peatarian better than you...... And obsessions can be deadly. I once had an obsession with becoming super thin - I now try to channel it to creativity and eating what I crave, which I find much healthier. You didn't know me prior to Peatarian and I didn't post a lot of my past publicly with people there. I ate starch based and low fat for all of two or three weeks and got appendicitis (over a year into dietary experimentation). Before I discovered RP (so two years prior to the high starch thing), I had been pretty much low calorie and anorexic (and bulimic - which was a bi-product of my stomach problems, which made me fear food and how I would react to it). So I had troubles adapting to eating pretty much anything because everything bothers someone who has eaten very little for years.

It took me two weeks of a high starch and almost zero fat diet to get a massive infection and 103 F fever which landed me in the ER with appendicitis - which is incredibly deadly and terrifying, in case you didn't know that. For those of us who come from a history of high serotonin stomach problems, not eating enough fat with starch can be highly problematic. And in fact, eating anything can be highly problematic. Actually, it was probably my posts on Peatarian that got you interested in the high starch diet, but you probably don't remember that far - you were so dogmatic back then...... I went down that path and it ended terribly. And I admit that wholeheartedly and share my story so other people who are similar to me don't follow suit.

We are all different and high starch and pursuit of thin has seemingly worked great for you. But for me, it hasn't gone well EVER. I'm still thin and lean and strong and I have found that eating fat & sugar as fuel (with very little starch and adequate protein - probably less than what RP would recommend, but I just can't stomach more than 80 grams) works best for ME - it's not what I would like, but I have a difficult history, so I take what works. And I only post what I post because I don't want others to follow anyone else's path if it doesn't work - if higher fat intake is bad for some, then they shouldn't follow it. What works for ME won't necessarily work for YOU or OTHERS and vise versa. And, it's not about being thin - it's about being healthy. You should consider that more often. I had to gain weight to find equilibrium and it took a lot of pain for me to realize that and learn (and continue to learn) to be happy with myself. And RP's paintings of women are not thin - they are really what society in our day would call "fat" and "curvy", which is horrid. So if women here are listening to your ideas of being thin, they are not RP's paintings of women (those would be like Kate Winslet in the Titanic, when everyone was saying how fat she is) - women often associate thin and proper weight with emaciated. Because that's what we often think of as proper weight. So I wouldn't go encouraging women to pursue thin-ness if it will hinder her need for nutrition.

Do you have any research or evidence that a low-fat, starch-based, whole foods diet causes appendicitis? Because if you don't it is irresponsible to keep blaming your appendicitis on starches. Two or three weeks is not a long time. Your appendicitis may have been developing before you began eating starches and the connection is merely coincidental. Are you willing to consider that?

If eating anything can be problematic, why do you keep denouncing only starches?

Why do you equate thinness with poor health? Why do you assume that slender people who eat lots of starch are somehow unhealthy and "pursuing" thinness?

The hatred for starches is just ridiculous. American women are not obese because they are eating a starch-based, low-fat, plant-based, whole foods diet. They are fat because they eat a lot of fat and junk food.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

My appendix ruptured when my diet consisted of mostly low fat healthy whole grains and un-buttered sourdough bread in particular. Granted, I was also under treated for hypothyroidism and struggled with constipation, but the more fiber I tried to throw at my situation the worse things got.

They are fat because they eat a lot of fat and junk food.

I wasn't eating a lot of fat and junk food and yet I was obese....so that statement isn't quite true either.

I definitely eat more fat now and less fiber than I did back then, but I'm considered a very healthy weight (lost 75 pounds).

Other factors that surely played a role in my appendicitis:

• Insane history of antibiotic use
• I was experiencing severe life stressors
• AND had been spraying Round Up for days while wearing shorts/flip-flops and believe I poisoned myself with glyphosate.

 

[lindsay]

Do you have any research or evidence that a low-fat, starch-based, whole foods diet causes appendicitis? Because if you don't it is irresponsible to keep blaming your appendicitis on starches. Two or three weeks is not a long time. Your appendicitis may have been developing before you began eating starches and the connection is merely coincidental. Are you willing to consider that?

If eating anything can be problematic, why do you keep denouncing only starches?

Why do you equate thinness with poor health? Why do you assume that slender people who eat lots of starch are somehow unhealthy and "pursuing" thinness?

The hatred for starches is just ridiculous. American women are not obese because they are eating a starch-based, low-fat, plant-based, whole foods diet. They are fat because they eat a lot of fat and junk food.

No. I have no research and frankly don't need any for ME personally. The fact that I cannot tolerate large amount of starches has proven evident for ME personally numerous times. It probably dates back to childhood, as I had asthma and eczema since I was little. Both got worse in college when I was eating a lot of bread products and starchy carbs. So I started avoiding eating too much of them and it helped.

My appendicitis was probably caused by a myriad of factors - I won't deny that (extended Zelnorm usage in college set me on a negative trajectory). I had previous endotoxemia episodes prior to my appendicitis, but none of them got that bad quickly until I started eating a lot of starch. It began with making my own bread, which I noticed I didn't tolerate in anything more than tiny doses, so I tried soaking oats, cooking rice and eating mashed potatoes - all while eating very little fat/protein. After a couple of weeks of eating these things, I ended up in the ER with a 103 F fever (after 3 days of trying to tell myself it was nothing) and appendicitis. The weather was also very hot and conditions for infection were prime, but I had the same symptoms as in college eating lots of starch - getting an eczema outbreak on my face (the stomach symptoms then were severe constipation). So, forgive me for deducing that I was overloading my system with starch, but when the crap hit the fan, it hit the fan.

Personally, I can have weird reactions to many foods. Some days it starch, some days it's certain proteins. Some days it's something else, like certain fruits. Again, this is me personally. Which leads to why I have these problems even worse in the first place - I probably never would have become hypothyroid if I didn't struggle with eating disorders. It's a long story, but I struggled for many years on and off with eating disorders. Only in hindsight do I realize how messed up it was and that most of it was due to my digestive issues and depression (the brain-gut link).

Eating nutrition and eating junk food are not equal. I don't eat junk food - okay, occasionally I eat gummy and sugary candy, but try to avoid non natural sugars as much as possible. I try to eat nutritious foods that are dense in nutrients because that's what I tend to crave. I eat more fat now than I used to - in the form of aged cheese and cream (in my coffee). And sometimes I eat eggs and beef, but not always daily.

Listen, I'm not trying to steer anyone in any direction - it's up to each to choose their own nutrition path. But for me personally, eating a starch based diet DID NOT work. I still eat starches occasionally in moderation and with fat, but the rice or potato diet is not on my radar anymore. After I had appendicitis, I began listening to my body's cravings and it just so happens that I crave high fat cheese dairy and some eggs, fruits (always oranges and OJ) and other nutrients, which vary from time to time. My situation is different from others - I don't have a gallbladder, only have one ovary and somewhat more recently am without an appendix. It sucks, but I gave up on achieving thin because achieving thin and being stressed led to infertility, depression, mental fatigue and the myriad of problems I have been trying to fix now for a few years.

I've been underweight, but never really over weight. And now I seek to choose being me and being happy, content and in tune with my body as best I can. It's a struggle, but I much appreciate it in comparison to trying to whip my body into "thin" submission. I've been in the thin agonistic state, and well, I wish the best for all of you. I'm much happier being the weight my body should be. And with that, I sign off and get some rest. I really don't want to argue with anyone - it's not worth the mental stress. I just feel sad for anyone who thinks they need to be super thin and uber fit to be happy. It didn't work that well for me. That's all.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

I remember Peatarian better than you...... And obsessions can be deadly. I once had an obsession with becoming super thin - I now try to channel it to creativity and eating what I crave, which I find much healthier. You didn't know me prior to Peatarian and I didn't post a lot of my past publicly with people there. I ate starch based and low fat for all of two or three weeks and got appendicitis (over a year into dietary experimentation). Before I discovered RP (so two years prior to the high starch thing), I had been pretty much low calorie and anorexic (and bulimic - which was a bi-product of my stomach problems, which made me fear food and how I would react to it). So I had troubles adapting to eating pretty much anything because everything bothers someone who has eaten very little for years.

It took me two weeks of a high starch and almost zero fat diet to get a massive infection and 103 F fever which landed me in the ER with appendicitis - which is incredibly deadly and terrifying, in case you didn't know that. For those of us who come from a history of high serotonin stomach problems, not eating enough fat with starch can be highly problematic. And in fact, eating anything can be highly problematic. Actually, it was probably my posts on Peatarian that got you interested in the high starch diet, but you probably don't remember that far - you were so dogmatic back then...... I went down that path and it ended terribly. And I admit that wholeheartedly and share my story so other people who are similar to me don't follow suit.

We are all different and high starch and pursuit of thin has seemingly worked great for you. But for me, it hasn't gone well EVER. I'm still thin and lean and strong and I have found that eating fat & sugar as fuel (with very little starch and adequate protein - probably less than what RP would recommend, but I just can't stomach more than 80 grams) works best for ME - it's not what I would like, but I have a difficult history, so I take what works. And I only post what I post because I don't want others to follow anyone else's path if it doesn't work - if higher fat intake is bad for some, then they shouldn't follow it. What works for ME won't necessarily work for YOU or OTHERS and vise versa. And, it's not about being thin - it's about being healthy. You should consider that more often. I had to gain weight to find equilibrium and it took a lot of pain for me to realize that and learn (and continue to learn) to be happy with myself. And RP's paintings of women are not thin - they are really what society in our day would call "fat" and "curvy", which is horrid. So if women here are listening to your ideas of being thin, they are not RP's paintings of women (those would be like Kate Winslet in the Titanic, when everyone was saying how fat she is) - women often associate thin and proper weight with emaciated. Because that's what we often think of as proper weight. So I wouldn't go encouraging women to pursue thin-ness if it will hinder her need for nutrition.

I'm not going to spend time responding to that because I know I'll look back at it six months from now and think to myself "Why did I spend so much time and energy responding to that?" But I will respond to one thing real quick and that is your sentence: "And RP's paintings of women are not thin - they are really what society in our day would call "fat" and "curvy", which is horrid."

Really?

Paintings by Ray Peat:

 

[Westside PUFAs]

p.s. Chef AJ really doesn't look that healthy to me.

Of course you would say that because you don't think being lean means one looks healthy. But to those that do, they look at her and her history and they "get it." She looks incredible for a 57 year old woman. That's almost 60 years old. And she's not on any meds and doesn't suffer with depression and blood sugar problems. In the photo on the right, she's so lean for a "white" woman that it's odd to look at first. If you photoshopped her head with an Asian woman's head it would look more fitting. That is because we are so used to seeing overweight white people in the west. So many people like to say "Asians are lean because of their genetics." That is such a weird thing to actually believe because 1. There are obese Asians. And 2. There are examples of non-Asians who are as lean as them. In her before photo she still looks "healthy" but she just has excess fat.

 

[Atalanta]

Of course you would say that because you don't think being lean means one looks healthy. But to those that do, they look at her and her history and they "get it." She looks incredible for a 57 year old woman. That's almost 60 years old. And she's not on any meds and doesn't suffer with depression and blood sugar problems. In the photo on the right, she's so lean for a "white" woman that it's odd to look at first. If you photoshopped her head with an Asian woman's head it would look more fitting. That is because we are so used to seeing overweight white people in the west. So many people like to say "Asians are lean because of their genetics." That is such a weird thing to actually believe because 1. There are obese Asians. And 2. There are examples of non-Asians who are as lean as them. In her before photo she still looks "healthy" but she just has excess fat.

View attachment 3376

Oh my goodness, is she really 57 years old? She looks great.

 

[lindsay]

I'm not going to spend time responding to that because I know I'll look back at it six months from now and think to myself "Why did I spend so much time and energy responding to that?" But I will respond to one thing real quick and that is your sentence: "And RP's paintings of women are not thin - they are really what society in our day would call "fat" and "curvy", which is horrid."

Really?

Paintings by Ray Peat:

View attachment 3375

I'm also not going to waste time, because I am leaving to go abroad tomorrow and it would be stupid. You obviously don't understand the mindset of a woman with true body hatred...... and your comments could be fostering it. That's all I'm saying. I have struggled with eating issues for years and know many women who have also been in my same position. We are all unique and have different histories and body types. Ray Peat's images are of lovely feminine women who are VERY curvy (and you left out the more curvy images). But women are often shunned for having curves and body fat in our society (I have dealt with this issue personally with my doctors in the past - shaming me for gaining needed weight and telling me I am healthy when super thin and underweight, even though I was infertile and unhealthy when thin). Until you are a woman in society, you probably won't get it and that's fine - just please don't go telling women or people how they should be. I'm not saying obesity is fine - that's not my position. But hating body fat of any kind is stupid. I'd rather be the weight I should and carry a bit of fat for security and be able to do real things (like travel and explore and work the mind and handle stress) than be thin, miserable and unable to handle life's stresses. I have had two major surgeries in the past 4 years and (while I wish they hadn't happened) I did WAY better on the second one because I had some padding to carry me through with the stress.

 

[Westside PUFAs]

You were the one who attacked me first by calling my views an "obsession." You could have easily stated your opinion on body fat without attacking me and just left me out of it. As I've said, the OP asked for my opinion and tagged my name twice at the top of this thread. And now you're still conflating things and your statements are refuting things that I've never said. Also, men have body image issues too. Not only can a man be shamed for having moobs and a beer belly, but men also have the hee-man ripped chiseled 8 pack muscle body to live up to. It's not a gender thing. It's an everyone thing. Do an image search for "Rich Piana" to see a man who suffers from a body disorder. It's called "bigorexia."

 

[Ahanu]

But women are often shunned for having curves and body fat in our society

It asks " too skinny?"