Ice Cream Causes Anxiety Attacks

[thebigpeatowski]

I wonder if as women the fact that we have more estrogen (doesn't estrogen promote fat oxidation?) and naturally more body fat so we can be fertile and birth children play a role in why some of us females here on the forum seem to thrive with a certain amount of saturated fat in our diets?

I don't know Blossom....but what I can definitely vouch for is that gut irritation and the ensuing endotoxin will throw hormones completely out of whack. So an old woman teetering on the edge of estrogen/serotonin driven insanity (me) cannot afford to play Russian Roulette.

Got (whole) milk?

 

[Westside PUFAs]

However, what you don't talk about is endotoxin. Peat talks A LOT about endotoxin, starch persorption and gut issues from potatoes feeding bacteria. I'm here to say that some of the choir members simply cannot eat in the manner to which you preach.

Out of 116 Peat quotes on the subject of endotoxin, only 2 mention starch. Endotoxin is a much broader issue than "starch:"

Ray Peat, PhD on Endotoxin – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

You keep bringing the discussion back to starch when we were talking about dairy fat. The OP asked me about what I eat in the title post, she asked me, I didn't preach to her.

What you're not conceding here is that Peat quote on whole milk actually applies to people who were doing the typical Peat/Roddy style diet of milk, and oj with no starch. Starch has nothing to do with someone who is gaining fat by drinking whole milk and avoiding starch everyday.

That's great that the whole goat milk works for you for your daily calories. We just have to seperate the discussion and be clear about what we're talking about.

 

[managing]

Ask almost anyone what nutrient fresh, ripe, raw fruit has. They will answer vitamin C. That is an example of common sense in nutrition.

No. That is common knowledge.

Common sense (in nutrition) would mean that its just obvious that something is good (bad) for you. That doesn't exist.

But I am beginning to get the impression that you just want to fight. Lunge. Parry. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

You keep bringing the discussion back to starch when we were talking about dairy fat. The OP asked me about what I eat in the title post, she asked me, I didn't preach to her.

The "preaching" part was a joke Westside....all in love and fun.

The OP wanted help with anxiety and what she described as some belly fat gain and perhaps unsteady blood sugar....all of which can be caused by stress hormones.

Her description sounded to me like it could possibly be related to endotoxin, I was merely speculating in an effort to try and help her.

Here's a quote from Ray Peat that I borrowed from the Functional PS website, since I know you're fond of RP quotes (bold is mine):

“If you take orange juice with some fat it will be more stabilizing to your blood sugar than the grits and potatoes. Starches increase the stress hormones, interfering with progesterone and thyroid.”

This is why Peat always recommends CHEESE & OJ FOR LOWERING STRESS.

 

[InChristAlone]

I wish I knew exactly what causes this. I do know when I eat vegetables the next day I usually have anxiety so I tend to stay away from vegetables, but it is so up and down. I ended up going back to coke and I'm back to the sorry state I was in again with anxiety, adrenaline for no apparent reason. This feels like deja vous because I always go back to what wasn't working. How do I get out of this? My body wants the caffeine after a bad night but the caffeine makes it worse after a while. When I added it back in I went nuts I had been so fatigued and then all of a sudden I had plenty of energy and I cleaned for 4 hrs. That's why it's so addicting because it feels good when you have energy to do things. What else besides low blood sugar causes anxiety? Did I deplete a neurochemical with the coke? Also I have heard inflammation can be at the root as well. Some people are having success from supps like n acetyl glycosamine. Id like to figure out root causes. Also thought I'd mention for the sake of transparency I haven't been doing low fat, i need the calories and wasn't able to get there without fat.

 

[Jennifer]

I wish I knew exactly what causes this. I do know when I eat vegetables the next day I usually have anxiety so I tend to stay away from vegetables, but it is so up and down. I ended up going back to coke and I'm back to the sorry state I was in again with anxiety, adrenaline for no apparent reason. This feels like deja vous because I always go back to what wasn't working. How do I get out of this? My body wants the caffeine after a bad night but the caffeine makes it worse after a while. When I added it back in I went nuts I had been so fatigued and then all of a sudden I had plenty of energy and I cleaned for 4 hrs. That's why it's so addicting because it feels good when you have energy to do things. What else besides low blood sugar causes anxiety? Did I deplete a neurochemical with the coke? Also I have heard inflammation can be at the root as well. Some people are having success from supps like n acetyl glycosamine. Id like to figure out root causes. Also thought I'd mention for the sake of transparency I haven't been doing low fat, i need the calories and wasn't able to get there without fat.

I just had this conversation with my mum yesterday. She gets this burst of energy and takes advantage of it, only to be left exhausted days later. This is what I tried explaining to her...

I hate to keep going back to the adrenals, and this is probably not going to be a popular response given it's the RP forum and coffee/caffeine are relative staples here, but from what I understand, caffeine stimulates the adrenals which feels good at first to someone whose adrenals and/or thyroid are weak. It forces the adrenals to produce adrenaline (emergency energy) and gives you a false sense of healthy energy at the expense of weakening your glandular tissues even more (think, a runner's high). What happens is you feel energized and so you do more. The problem is, your adrenals are weak and need you to rest so they can regenerate. Heck, so your thyroid and every other tissue can regenerate.

Your anxiety attacks and a lack of energy are sure signs you need rest. IMHO, there is no supplement or food that can replace rest. It's just like when a child is sick and needs to sleep, do we give them a Red Bull so that they can get up and be more productive in society? I hope for most the answer is no. It would be like whipping a dying horse to pull a cart. It's cruel. I get that most don't have the luxury of lying in bed all day, so maybe a compromise is to take it easy as best we can, when we can? If you start to feel this sudden burst of energy, don't feed into it. Continue to take things slow and easy. Your adrenals' energy stores are like your savings account which has been in the negative. As soon you put a check in the account, keep yourself from spending it. Let it build up so that you can get that shiny new car (a.k.a body) at the end of the year.

Sorry if this is of no help to you, Janelle. I really do hope you can get this sorted out. I know what if feels like and it's no way to live.

 

[InChristAlone]

I just had this conversation with my mum yesterday. She gets this burst of energy and takes advantage of it, only to be left exhausted days later. This is what I tried explaining to her...

I hate to keep going back to the adrenals, and this is probably not going to be a popular response given it's the RP forum and coffee/caffeine are relative staples here, but from what I understand, caffeine stimulates the adrenals which feels good at first to someone whose adrenals and/or thyroid are weak. It forces the adrenals to produce adrenaline (emergency energy) and gives you a false sense of healthy energy at the expense of weakening your glandular tissues even more (think, a runner's high). What happens is you feel energized and so you do more. The problem is, your adrenals are weak and need you to rest so they can regenerate. Heck, so your thyroid and every other tissue can regenerate.

Your anxiety attacks and a lack of energy are sure signs you need rest. IMHO, there is no supplement or food that can replace rest. It's just like when a child is sick and needs to sleep, do we give them a Red Bull so that they can get up and be more productive in society? I hope for most the answer is no. It would be like whipping a dying horse to pull a cart. It's cruel. I get that most don't have the luxury of lying in bed all day, so maybe a compromise is to take it easy as best we can, when we can? If you start to feel this sudden burst of energy, don't feed into it. Continue to take things slow and easy. Your adrenals' energy stores are like your savings account which has been in the negative. As soon you put a check in the account, keep yourself from spending it. Let it build up so that you can get that shiny new car (a.k.a body) at the end of the year.

Sorry if this is of no help to you, Janelle. I really do hope you can get this sorted out. I know what if feels like and it's no way to live.

I think you may be absolutely right. I had hoped I could get by with a bit more energy, but it has become clear that I can't especially since I can't seem to eat enough for the energy I am using. Also I had gotten sick off caffeine and it was taking a while to feel better, I wondered if I just didn't have the energy to get better and that's when I added in the coke again and it's like my body said oh hey I'm fine now! But now I'm wondering if me getting sick was more like a healing crisis? And maybe had I just rested for a week I would have come out the other side better ??? Sucks because I'll never be able to just lay around as a Mom but I need time off for sure.

 

[Peata]

If it were me, I'd stop caffeine until I felt better. I love some coffee, but I can't have it if I don't have actual food in my stomach first. It sets off adrenaline. And sometimes when I'm sick or don't feel well for whatever reason (when I was having gastritis) I instinctively couldn't stomach the coffee so I didn't force it. I haven't caught up on the thread, so I don't know what you've been using/trying. I would rest as much as I could and eat well, whatever appealed (trying to avoid pufa though).

 

[InChristAlone]

If it were me, I'd stop caffeine until I felt better. I love some coffee, but I can't have it if I don't have actual food in my stomach first. It sets off adrenaline. And sometimes when I'm sick or don't feel well for whatever reason (when I was having gastritis) I instinctively couldn't stomach the coffee so I didn't force it. I haven't caught up on the thread, so I don't know what you've been using/trying. I would rest as much as I could and eat well, whatever appealed (trying to avoid pufa though).

I agree, I can't tolerate even a little caffeine directly in the morning, need some good glycogen going to tolerate it. So even though coke comes with sugar it's not enough to prevent a crash. I can't believe I was fooled again thinking I could handle it. Does this qualify as destructive behavior? I convinced myself I can't have coffee now for several months that but I can't stop my daily coke for long. Fatigue sets in.

 

[Peata]

I agree, I can't tolerate even a little caffeine directly in the morning, need some good glycogen going to tolerate it. So even though coke comes with sugar it's not enough to prevent a crash. I can't believe I was fooled again thinking I could handle it. Does this qualify as destructive behavior? I convinced myself I can't have coffee now for several months that but I can't stop my daily coke for long. Fatigue sets in.

I've done that too. I lowered my coffee for a while but took up a real Coke addiction. It started to decay my teeth, and I'm sure wasn't doing wonders for my waist. I think when you're low energy/some hypothyroid stuff, your body sometimes out of desperation goes for what will give it that kick it needs. A trade off of energy now for a crash later. It might not even be caffeine, it might be alcohol or something. I have to stay on top of the food intake and then I'm okay with some stimulants like caffeine, but if I try to go without proper food, my body doesn't forgive for long: adrenaline, anger, restlessness, headache, etc.
Don't be too hard on yourself. You haven't done anything that many other humans haven't done (including this one). You'll get it worked out.

 

[InChristAlone]

I've done that too. I lowered my coffee for a while but took up a real Coke addiction. It started to decay my teeth, and I'm sure wasn't doing wonders for my waist. I think when you're low energy/some hypothyroid stuff, your body sometimes out of desperation goes for what will give it that kick it needs. A trade off of energy now for a crash later. It might not even be caffeine, it might be alcohol or something. I have to stay on top of the food intake and then I'm okay with some stimulants like caffeine, but if I try to go without proper food, my body doesn't forgive for long: adrenaline, anger, restlessness, headache, etc.
Don't be too hard on yourself. You haven't done anything that many other humans haven't done (including this one). You'll get it worked out.

Thanks, yes seems most people are using stimulants to get by just weird how some suffer from anxiety and the jitters if they overdo it and others maybe just bad moods and poor sleep. I know someone who drinks it black in the morning and doesn't eat til lunch and even then barely anything. But she always is really moody until she eats that big meal in the evening. You'd think we humans would change destructive habits!! And yeah my teeth are sensitive again. Ugh stupid coke!!

 

[Jennifer]

I agree, I can't tolerate even a little caffeine directly in the morning, need some good glycogen going to tolerate it. So even though coke comes with sugar it's not enough to prevent a crash. I can't believe I was fooled again thinking I could handle it. Does this qualify as destructive behavior? I convinced myself I can't have coffee now for several months that but I can't stop my daily coke for long. Fatigue sets in.

Don't be too hard on yourself. You haven't done anything that many other humans haven't done (including this one). You'll get it worked out.

This.

I spent 7 years forcing dairy on myself despite getting immediate rashes that eventually led to puss filled blisters and a swelling throat every time I had any. And then there was my hiking in -40 temps and getting banged into bolders from the 60 mile an hour winds when I was 90 pounds soaking wet. Most of us have forced things on ourselves at one point or another. But hey, we're still alive to talk about it, right? Can't keep good women down.

 

[InChristAlone]

This.

I spent 7 years forcing dairy on myself despite getting immediate rashes that eventually led to puss filled blisters and a swelling throat every time I had any. And then there was my hiking in -40 temps and getting banged into bolders from the 60 mile an hour winds when I was 90 pounds soaking wet. Most of us have forced things on ourselves at one point or another. But hey, we're still alive to talk about it, right? Can't keep good women down.

Wow you give me hope!! Some days I think I'll never get healthy, but then there are people like you that say that it's totally possible. Yeah I had got down to 92 lbs at my lowest from stress. And I was still eating whatever I wanted to then I just was pushing so hard for too long. Skinniest I've ever been. And then I wanted a garden and I loaded up on coffee and went out digging up a plot by hand!!!! Lol strong willed I guess. Now I just sink down when I get too stressed. But this truly has taught me I can't abuse myself.

 

[thebigpeatowski]

.....Lol strong willed I guess. Now I just sink down when I get too stressed. But this truly has taught me I can't abuse myself.

This is one of the most difficult aspects of being a mother, cuz ya can't really ever rest. I'm strong willed also (more like Stubborn As Hell)...to the point of self abuse. Not a trait I proud of at all.

I wish I had better advice for you, but I'm the gal that just HAD to finish painting the garage while having acute appendicitis and let it rupture before seeking medical help. Major Lesson Learned.

I went the Blues Festival at Chateau Ste. Michelle yesterday and spent the entire day eating and relaxing on the lawn chatting with the happy shiny people.

Mavis Staples (and the Staple Singers) was one of several bands that played and man she can still put on a great show. She played this song, it was quite timely....RESPECT YOURSELF!!!



I'm overjoyed that you recognize this pattern so much earlier than I ever did Janelle...xoxo.

 

[lindsay]

A higher fat diet coupled with fruit sugars is soothing and provides stable even energy for me. There are others (@lindsay ) on this forum that have found eating a higher fat diet works better for them too....both of us have gut issues that go back many years and we each lack our appendix. Coincidence?

Personal Context is everything.

Yes I have and I think it makes sense for people like us who have royally allowed our guts to go raw at some point. All my stomach problems began in college when I was eating high amounts of starch (specifically gluten) and under stress. This also coincided with my worst eczema outbreak ever. Granted, I was also probably consuming more PUFA than I should have been, but I wasn't overweight and have never been fat (except in my own mind, which is a whole other story).

Anyhoo, I now find that I am happier eating less calories than most people try to pound down on here, but trying to get ample nutrition. This is how I feel best and I'm fine with that. I think the dairy fat is kind of important when you don't have an appendix because it probably helps with the microbe imbalance which regularly happens. I don't eat tons of fat, but probably 65 grams or so per day, predominantly from aged cheese ( I don't really log my food intake regularly as I find it a major bore and it just stresses me out) and I like to ride my bike and do yoga and be moderately active. I'm not fat, my weight is right where it should be and I am very strong. If I find myself putting on weight, it's almost always hormonal and fluid. Part of the joys of being female and dealing with estrogen/serotonin.

I'm a little disturbed by W&P's obsession with thin-ness and find it really unhealthy as a fixation for many people (such as myself) who come from a long history of eating disorders. I've been extremely underweight in my past and being thin did not equal healthy; I'm now infertile and have lost a lot of youth in the pursuit of thin. The fact of the matter is, it IS natural to gain fat after having starving yourself or abusing the body because it's trying to protect itself from the next famine. When I was young, I could bounce right back, but at age 30 when the sh*t hit the fan and I had been eating like a 1,000 calories per day and exercising like a crazy person, gaining fat was inevitable when I discovered RP and it happened eating very little dietary fat at that.

I will say that personally, if there is one thing that makes me feel not-so-great and gain weight, it's not dietary fat so much as dietary protein (or excess sugar). I tried to push my protein intake a couple months ago and it didn't feel good. I'm quite happy at somewhere between 50 & 70 grams per day and I agree to just disagree with RP that I need at least 70 grams of protein every day. Somedays I reach that and somedays I don't, but the stress of trying to get all my macros in order - well who can deal with that and still lead a normal happy life. Certainly not me.

Sorry - don't know where that rant came from. There is no formula that fits every person and I've really realized this. Also, I think personal enjoyment in life is a huge part of the equation of good health. There is nothing more serotonin promoting for me than sitting in front of my computer and thinking about nutrition and my health 24/7. I'm better off taking engaging my creative or other part of my brain, rather than draining the life out of it and thinking I will die if I eat certain things. Speaking of which, I ate pizza this weekend for the first time in awhile - smothered in cheese & lots of veggies (because I actually LOVE veggies). And I didn't die or have massive digestive upset. Yay!!! That doesn't mean I will eat pizza daily (I took cypro beforehand), but it was nice to be "normal" with friends for a day

 

[lollipop]

I'm a little disturbed by W&P's obsession with thin-ness and find it really unhealthy as a fixation for many people (such as myself) who come from a long history of eating disorders. I've been extremely underweight in my past and being thin did not equal healthy; I'm now infertile and have lost a lot of youth in the pursuit of thin. The fact of the matter is, it IS natural to gain fat after having starving yourself or abusing the body because it's trying to protect itself from the next famine. When I was young, I could bounce right back, but at age 30 when the sh*t hit the fan and I had been eating like a 1,000 calories per day and exercising like a crazy person, gaining fat was inevitable when I discovered RP and it happened eating very little dietary fat at that.

This.

 

[InChristAlone]

Yeah I think weight gain is pretty much expected when you've been through the ringer. And I definitely have so I am not trying to stay thin while I recover. I was just noticing some changes in my body but all the while not really healing. I am done trying to pursue specific macro diets as the cure all. I do think I suffer from low blood sugar symptoms so carbs are very important for me, but not at the expense of everything else. I was curious how people made the low fat diet work. Fruitarianism still intrigues me and probably always will, I love fruit, and wish I lived in a tropical place, but alas I don't!

 

[InChristAlone]

This is one of the most difficult aspects of being a mother, cuz ya can't really ever rest. I'm strong willed also (more like Stubborn As Hell)...to the point of self abuse. Not a trait I proud of at all.

I wish I had better advice for you, but I'm the gal that just HAD to finish painting the garage while having acute appendicitis and let it rupture before seeking medical help. Major Lesson Learned.

I went the Blues Festival at Chateau Ste. Michelle yesterday and spent the entire day eating and relaxing on the lawn chatting with the happy shiny people.

Mavis Staples (and the Staple Singers) was one of several bands that played and man she can still put on a great show. She played this song, it was quite timely....RESPECT YOURSELF!!!



I'm overjoyed that you recognize this pattern so much earlier than I ever did Janelle...xoxo.

I love that you are strong willed, because it also means you won't stop trying to figure things out and get better! I loved that song, very timely! And thank-you, yes I think anxiety was my body's way of saying life is too much, take time out for you. xoxo

 

[Jennifer]

Wow you give me hope!! Some days I think I'll never get healthy, but then there are people like you that say that it's totally possible. Yeah I had got down to 92 lbs at my lowest from stress. And I was still eating whatever I wanted to then I just was pushing so hard for too long. Skinniest I've ever been. And then I wanted a garden and I loaded up on coffee and went out digging up a plot by hand!!!! Lol strong willed I guess. Now I just sink down when I get too stressed. But this truly has taught me I can't abuse myself.

Oh, yes! There is always hope. I too have times where I think I will never get better, but then I remember where I came from and realize I'm not doing so bad. I just wanted my health back yesterday, you know? But the reality is, I was in really bad shape. At my lowest I was 69 pounds. I fractured half my spine at 27 and became disabled. I'm around your age, 35. Actually, you and I have talked in the past, I think? You had asked me how I had figured out the diet I'm on and I went on to describe the importance of knowing yourself and loving yourself and how that will help you to discern what is right for you.

Your experience and realization with the Coke is what I experienced these past 8 years trying out an insane number of health modalities in a desperate attempt to build back my collapsed spine. The reason I kept pushing the dairy was because milk does a body good, right? Not so in my case, but I was too afraid to let it go. Not only did I come from some WAPF brainwashing, but I kept seeing people on here doing so well on dairy, and we all know what Ray has to say about it, that I felt it was my body that was defective so I kept trying to beat it into submission until it got onboard the dairy train. I learned a valuable lesson to trust what my body is telling me even if it goes against everyone else.

So here I am on my version of a Peaty diet (I call it Plant Peaty ) and I'm feeling better all the time. It's a slow process, but there have been more steps forward than back so I know I'm finally on the right track. I sympathize with you being a mother while dealing with illness. I'm not a mom but I've spent most of my life taking care of children and ailing family members so I can understand how hard it is to put some of your own needs first. I was never good at it myself and that's partly what got me into this pickle. Anyhow, there are a lot of us on here who have turned our health around (A few on this thread alone) so I know there is hope for you, too. You'll find your groove. :)

Oh, and I'm a gardener, too. It sucked when I got hurt. Gardening and landscaping took a backseat. I did join a high Brix gardening group during my RBTI days. I figured while I was benched, I would learn all I could so that when I finally did get back out there, I would grow nothing short of the Garden of Eden. I currently have over 100 different types of fruit seeds sitting in the cellar. The majority of them are melons. I just love melons. LOL

 

[InChristAlone]

Oh, yes! There is always hope. I too have times where I think I will never get better, but then I remember where I came from and realize I'm not doing so bad. I just wanted my health back yesterday, you know? But the reality is, I was in really bad shape. At my lowest I was 69 pounds. I fractured half my spine at 27 and became disabled. I'm around your age, 35. Actually, you and I have talked in the past, I think? You had asked me how I had figured out the diet I'm on and I went on to describe the importance of knowing yourself and loving yourself and how that will help you to discern what is right for you.

Your experience and realization with the Coke is what I experienced these past 8 years trying out an insane number of health modalities in a desperate attempt to build back my collapsed spine. The reason I kept pushing the dairy was because milk does a body good, right? Not so in my case, but I was too afraid to let it go. Not only did I come from some WAPF brainwashing, but I kept seeing people on here doing so well on dairy, and we all know what Ray has to say about it, that I felt it was my body that was defective so I kept trying to beat it into submission until it got onboard the dairy train. I learned a valuable lesson to trust what my body is telling me even if it goes against everyone else.

So here I am on my version of a Peaty diet (I call it Plant Peaty ) and I'm feeling better all the time. It's a slow process, but there have been more steps forward than back so I know I'm finally on the right track. I sympathize with you being a mother while dealing with illness. I'm not a mom but I've spent most of my life taking care of children and ailing family members so I can understand how hard it is to put some of your own needs first. I was never good at it myself and that's partly what got me into this pickle. Anyhow, there are a lot of us on here who have turned our health around (A few on this thread alone) so I know there is hope for you, too. You'll find your groove. :)

Oh, and I'm a gardener, too. It sucked when I got hurt. Gardening and landscaping took a backseat. I did join a high Brix gardening group during my RBTI days. I figured while I was benched, I would learn all I could so that when I finally did get back out there, I would grow nothing short of the Garden of Eden. I currently have over 100 different types of fruit seeds sitting in the cellar. The majority of them are melons. I just love melons. LOL

Thanks so much, I can't remember if we have talked before but I have read quite a bit of your log, I am so happy for you that you found what works. Actually I was wanting to ask more about it just wasn't sure what to ask, fruit diets really appeal to me. I love melon as well! I am growing cantaloupe this year because I find it easy and rewarding to grow. And nothing beats ripe melon! And I eat watermelon most of the season. But have found I still need salt to balance the liquid so when you talked with that guy yuraz I believe it was about sodium only from foods I was intrigued. I always wondered how fruitarians fare so well without salt! But with doing the high everything style diet I learned that eating too much salt meant my heart would pound at bedtime. So if I do salt I try to balance with fruit.

Yeah I also have WAPF in my background and actually I think I did a lot better with local raw milk but it got too expensive.

Yeah being a caregiver can be so exhausting!