Ice Cream Causes Anxiety Attacks

InChristAlone

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I have been struggling with anxiety for over 2 years now, I find things that help like keeping my blood sugar up, decreasing stimulants, getting enough sleep, managing stress, but it seems I can't go a week without it coming back. I noticed that fat and protein are particularly good at turning on stress for me. And Ray Peat has spoken about this as well via CCK peptide. For those susceptible to panic attacks this peptide released to digest fat and protein can trigger it. I know there are plenty more triggers for anxiety, just having a blood sugar crash can trigger it, but I have monitored my blood sugar and I have only ever seen it low a few times, I mean low as in 70, usually when I test it its above 90, and I usually settle around 100 in between meals even if I'm anxious. The anxiety does get better after a meal if it goes to 125-135. That seems to be the sweet spot. But ice cream doesn't get me there, I think the fat slows digestion down so much that it's not giving me the carbs fast enough. So many times I have experienced an adrenaline rush after ice cream. It feels exactly like a loss of energy, I will start feeling cold even if its a hot day, maybe yawn a few times, and then I know the adrenaline is coming I will usually get some sugar in my mouth. It helps but if it goes too far it takes a while to feel back to normal.

I have been trying to experiment with going lower fat higher carb after reading @Westside PUFAs and @tyw experience with higher carb and it was remarkable, the first day I did 100 g of carbs for breakfast, very little fat and protein. And I didn't get my post breakfast crash! So I tried keeping this up but the rice was leaving me feeling full so slowly I had started adding back in more fats and using ice cream in the evening to top up calories. So then I switched to doing more OJ and watermelon instead of rice and that really helped! I had been doing coke in the morning and that wasn't making me feel good, so trying out higher fruit diet has been good!

The problem for me is sticking to something that works. I always fall off track. I got sick this past weekend and have gone back to my usual higher fat diet and it has left me feeling very bad again. Just had another adrenaline rush after eating ice cream. Taking the sugar took a while to work this time. I'm ready to make some serious changes. So maybe the people who understand what I'm saying with fat 'clogging up the system' could chime in and help me be consistent with this :).

Also I'd like @Westside PUFAs to help with what he actually eats, and if he is concerned with calcium and protein intake. I really want to make the lower fat work because I'm sick of being ill! He's not lieing when he says fat can put on fat, particularly with slow metabolisms!! I have cellulite for the first time in my life after eating 100 g of fat a day for several months.
 
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You can try gelato because it has a bit less fat in it. Other than that, sometimes there's really no way to feel full without some fat. The key is to keep it moderate. You can use macadamia nuts for this, or just a plain old tablespoon of coconut oil with salt on top.

I had been doing coke in the morning and that wasn't making me feel good

Hard to believe :cool :whistle
 
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InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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You can try gelato because it has a bit less fat in it. Other than that, sometimes there's really no way to feel full without some fat. The key is to keep it moderate. You can use macadamia nuts for this, or just a plain old tablespoon of coconut oil with salt on top.



Hard to believe :cool :whistle
:shame: yes I finally quit my one soda a day habit!! I think I also have low potassium so craving it in the morning is not good and means I'm not eating juicy things with potassium :joyful:.

It's not that I use fat to feel full, I use it for the calorie density. I have trouble eating enough and ice cream was helping get calories up as I had lost too much weight over the winter. I don't think I have ever had gelato! I will have to try it.
 

Luann

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Peat said that if your body's tendency is to turn protein into serotonin, then yeah you're going to have problems with protein in your diet. If I were you I'd be eating cultured dairy instead, because it has the whey, which contains high tryptophan, strained out of it. Just look around the forum here for protein sources that are less prone to turn into serotonin while your body is in its current condition.
 
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InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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Peat said that if your body's tendency is to turn protein into serotonin, then yeah you're going to have problems with protein in your diet. If I were you I'd be eating cultured dairy instead, because it has the whey, which contains high tryptophan, strained out of it. Just look around the forum here for protein sources that are less prone to turn into serotonin while your body is in its current condition.
Thanks, I have looked into the serotonin angle and I do think it is part of the problem, but I wasn't getting much relief by doing lower tryptophan. Also I've had adrenaline rushes after a big serving of aged cheese and OJ as well, so it would seem like there is more going on than serotonin. Cyproheptadine has helped me feel more calm, but isn't a cureall by any means. Also niacinamide has caused a feeling of adrenaline as well, actually I had taken a little bit today and was anxious ever since. I really feel like my body needs the carbs and when I'm running low stress turns on.
 

tara

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I will start feeling cold even if its a hot day
Just to consider the simplest possible explanation first, icecream can cool core temps. Does sweet cream at close to body temp have a similar effect?
 
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InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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Just to consider the simplest possible explanation first, icecream can cool core temps. Does sweet cream at close to body temp have a similar effect?
Yes I have considered that it's just the temp of the food, but like I said my adrenaline rushes aren't just triggered by ice cream. And I can typically drink cold juice or cold fruit and be okay with that. I do think the coldness is a factor though. Last time it happened I drank a bit of baking soda in water after and that warmed me back up. But it doesn't always work. I have pretty much given up on ice cream as a staple though.
 

StrongMom

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Hi Janelle,

I have a lot anxiety issues, not fully figured out but from my own experience I don't get full with sugar itself. If I eat a little bit of starch with my meals, it helps a lot. Protein, fat and sugar combination is not working well for me, it is raising my adrenaline I think, but I eat some starch with them I am fine. Also, if I eat a lot at once, I get heart palpitations as I guess too much work that needs to be done, i.e., digestion, raises stress hormones. And, besides, fat helps me to feel full; without fat I have hard time feeling and staying full. If you have a cortisol problem, RP said many times that not just sugar, but in combination with fat and salt, reduces cortisol.

The other thing is that I am sure you are careful about it but do you check the ingredients? Many ice cream brands have a lot of additives, like gums, that might be irritating.
 
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InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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Hi Janelle,

I have a lot anxiety issues, not fully figured out but from my own experience I don't get full with sugar itself. If I eat a little bit of starch with my meals, it helps a lot. Protein, fat and sugar combination is not working well for me, it is raising my adrenaline I think, but I eat some starch with them I am fine. Also, if I eat a lot at once, I get heart palpitations as I guess too much work that needs to be done, i.e., digestion, raises stress hormones. And, besides, fat helps me to feel full; without fat I have hard time feeling and staying full. If you have a cortisol problem, RP said many times that not just sugar, but in combination with fat and salt, reduces cortisol.

The other thing is that I am sure you are careful about it but do you check the ingredients? Many ice cream brands have a lot of additives, like gums, that might be irritating.
Yeah I do well with starch it helps keep my blood sugar up. I have been eating haagen dazs plain vanilla so very few ingredients. I used to do blue bunny vanilla and would get similar feelings from that. I should also mention Ive had this happen from milk so I don't do much milk. Unless I sipped it all day that was the only way to keep adrenaline down and felt it was too hard to keep doing as my tongue was super coated and felt gross. Yeah I am not so sure it's just the fat causing anxiety, as it is supposed to be stress reducing.
 

lvysaur

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If I were you I'd be eating cultured dairy instead, because it has the whey, which contains high tryptophan, strained out of it.

That's not true, cultured dairy is simply dairy that has been fermented by bacteria. The notable difference is higher lactic acid and lower lactose. Solid dairy will have less whey.

I tend to do fine eating up to a pint of ice cream per day, but I've noticed that I don't feel the same sense of calm that I do with sugared milk. I'm not sure if this is due to the high fat content, or the lower sugar content, or both.
 

Koveras

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Yes I have considered that it's just the temp of the food, but like I said my adrenaline rushes aren't just triggered by ice cream. And I can typically drink cold juice or cold fruit and be okay with that. I do think the coldness is a factor though. Last time it happened I drank a bit of baking soda in water after and that warmed me back up. But it doesn't always work. I have pretty much given up on ice cream as a staple though.

Hi Janelle,

I have a lot anxiety issues, not fully figured out but from my own experience I don't get full with sugar itself. If I eat a little bit of starch with my meals, it helps a lot. Protein, fat and sugar combination is not working well for me, it is raising my adrenaline I think, but I eat some starch with them I am fine. Also, if I eat a lot at once, I get heart palpitations as I guess too much work that needs to be done, i.e., digestion, raises stress hormones. And, besides, fat helps me to feel full; without fat I have hard time feeling and staying full. If you have a cortisol problem, RP said many times that not just sugar, but in combination with fat and salt, reduces cortisol.

The other thing is that I am sure you are careful about it but do you check the ingredients? Many ice cream brands have a lot of additives, like gums, that might be irritating.

Matt Stone talks about hypoglycemia / adrenaline issues often being an issue of not enough sodium - and as Peat mentions, people who are hypothyroid or prone to a stress metabolism may have trouble retaining sodium.

Sometimes plain table salt / sodium chloride may be the most therapeutic in that regard.

Hypoglycemia: What It Is, What It Isn't, and How to Fix the Root Problem: Matt Stone: 9781500209445: Books - Amazon.ca
 

natedawggh

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I have been struggling with anxiety for over 2 years now, I find things that help like keeping my blood sugar up, decreasing stimulants, getting enough sleep, managing stress, but it seems I can't go a week without it coming back. I noticed that fat and protein are particularly good at turning on stress for me. And Ray Peat has spoken about this as well via CCK peptide. For those susceptible to panic attacks this peptide released to digest fat and protein can trigger it. I know there are plenty more triggers for anxiety, just having a blood sugar crash can trigger it, but I have monitored my blood sugar and I have only ever seen it low a few times, I mean low as in 70, usually when I test it its above 90, and I usually settle around 100 in between meals even if I'm anxious. The anxiety does get better after a meal if it goes to 125-135. That seems to be the sweet spot. But ice cream doesn't get me there, I think the fat slows digestion down so much that it's not giving me the carbs fast enough. So many times I have experienced an adrenaline rush after ice cream. It feels exactly like a loss of energy, I will start feeling cold even if its a hot day, maybe yawn a few times, and then I know the adrenaline is coming I will usually get some sugar in my mouth. It helps but if it goes too far it takes a while to feel back to normal.

I have been trying to experiment with going lower fat higher carb after reading @Westside PUFAs and @tyw experience with higher carb and it was remarkable, the first day I did 100 g of carbs for breakfast, very little fat and protein. And I didn't get my post breakfast crash! So I tried keeping this up but the rice was leaving me feeling full so slowly I had started adding back in more fats and using ice cream in the evening to top up calories. So then I switched to doing more OJ and watermelon instead of rice and that really helped! I had been doing coke in the morning and that wasn't making me feel good, so trying out higher fruit diet has been good!

The problem for me is sticking to something that works. I always fall off track. I got sick this past weekend and have gone back to my usual higher fat diet and it has left me feeling very bad again. Just had another adrenaline rush after eating ice cream. Taking the sugar took a while to work this time. I'm ready to make some serious changes. So maybe the people who understand what I'm saying with fat 'clogging up the system' could chime in and help me be consistent with this :).

Also I'd like @Westside PUFAs to help with what he actually eats, and if he is concerned with calcium and protein intake. I really want to make the lower fat work because I'm sick of being ill! He's not lieing when he says fat can put on fat, particularly with slow metabolisms!! I have cellulite for the first time in my life after eating 100 g of fat a day for several months.

Does this reaction occur when you eat comparable fat sources such as butter? If not it's not the fat causing the reaction. If it is do you take any b vitamins besides niacinamide? b6 is involved in fat metabolism and you might have a deficiency. It can also improve blood sugar but watch out at first for severe drops in blood sugar if you take it in high doses. (I do 5k mg twice a day).

Taurine is very effective at helping to redirect tryptophan away from conversion to serotonin. I often take it with protein meals for this purpose. It also increases metabolism and some other helpful hormones.

I second the advice on sodium.
 
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What about sorbet? It has no fat, but not as many calories either. Have you considered a dairy allergy/intolerance?
 

HDD

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Do you use progesterone and/or thyroid? Peat has said that progesterone helps stabilize blood sugar. It has worked for me when I have felt "off" and can't seem to get rid of my stress symptoms with food or drink.

The liver is sluggish in this function among thyroid-deficient individuals…Since a sluggish liver is the most common cause of hypoglycemia, it should follow that the hypothyroid patient is highly susceptible to low blood sugar.” -Broda Barnes, MD, PhD and Charlotte Barnes


RP: The main thing that keeps blood sugar stable is the ability of your liver to store sugar, wherever it got it, it needs Thyroid hormone to store sugar, it also makes you use your sugar more sparingly, producing many more times of ATP molecules per unit of food, you get if you metabolise it into lactic acid which you do when you don’t have enough Thyroid. Thyroid makes you spare your glucose, not waste it, and store it in the liver, so it’s the basic thing for stabilizing your blood sugar. If you have cholesterol, which is only produced if the liver is in good condition, low cholesterol is behind serious adrenal failure, because raw cholesterol is raw material all of Pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, and cortisol. If your cholesterol is low and thyroid is low, you can’t make any of these. If you don’t make enough of these other steroids, then you will turn any trace of cholesterol into Adrenaline or Cortisol and get ecess cortisol, so you can get either adrenal failure or adrenal over activity, as a result of having a sick liver or any underactive thyroid.

This last part I emphasized.

Have you had your cholesterol measured recently?

Another thought. A revelation with my son in regards to his symptoms of cortisol. He takes t3 so his cholesterol is being used for protective hormones very quickly. His cortisol symptoms then return. He consumes quite a bit of oj and other sugars but he also has added coconut oil to his diet. In the East West interview on cholesterol, they mention saturated fat, particularly coconut oil as being effective at lowering cholesterol. This just came to mind while making this post.
 
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I have been struggling with anxiety for over 2 years now, I find things that help like keeping my blood sugar up, decreasing stimulants, getting enough sleep, managing stress, but it seems I can't go a week without it coming back. I noticed that fat and protein are particularly good at turning on stress for me. And Ray Peat has spoken about this as well via CCK peptide. For those susceptible to panic attacks this peptide released to digest fat and protein can trigger it. I know there are plenty more triggers for anxiety, just having a blood sugar crash can trigger it, but I have monitored my blood sugar and I have only ever seen it low a few times, I mean low as in 70, usually when I test it its above 90, and I usually settle around 100 in between meals even if I'm anxious. The anxiety does get better after a meal if it goes to 125-135. That seems to be the sweet spot. But ice cream doesn't get me there, I think the fat slows digestion down so much that it's not giving me the carbs fast enough. So many times I have experienced an adrenaline rush after ice cream. It feels exactly like a loss of energy, I will start feeling cold even if its a hot day, maybe yawn a few times, and then I know the adrenaline is coming I will usually get some sugar in my mouth. It helps but if it goes too far it takes a while to feel back to normal.

I have been trying to experiment with going lower fat higher carb after reading @Westside PUFAs and @tyw experience with higher carb and it was remarkable, the first day I did 100 g of carbs for breakfast, very little fat and protein. And I didn't get my post breakfast crash! So I tried keeping this up but the rice was leaving me feeling full so slowly I had started adding back in more fats and using ice cream in the evening to top up calories. So then I switched to doing more OJ and watermelon instead of rice and that really helped! I had been doing coke in the morning and that wasn't making me feel good, so trying out higher fruit diet has been good!

The problem for me is sticking to something that works. I always fall off track. I got sick this past weekend and have gone back to my usual higher fat diet and it has left me feeling very bad again. Just had another adrenaline rush after eating ice cream. Taking the sugar took a while to work this time. I'm ready to make some serious changes. So maybe the people who understand what I'm saying with fat 'clogging up the system' could chime in and help me be consistent with this :).

Also I'd like @Westside PUFAs to help with what he actually eats, and if he is concerned with calcium and protein intake. I really want to make the lower fat work because I'm sick of being ill! He's not lieing when he says fat can put on fat, particularly with slow metabolisms!! I have cellulite for the first time in my life after eating 100 g of fat a day for several months.

I have similar issues and recently thought I would have to stop eating ice cream. At one stage I was told my insulin levels were too high and that causes anxiety. I'm not sure whether this means insulin resistance or hypoglycaemia.Ive since read here somewhere that a high insulin response is good.I would like to stop the anxiety attacks. I noticed tonight after having a balanced meal ( meat and.veg) it settled.Ice cream might give an insulin spike do you think?
 
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HDD

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Quote from Peat on salt-

RP: One of the interesting effects of increasing your sodium intake is that it tends to stabilize your blood sugar, partly because it works with thyroid to improve energy efficiency, but it lowers adrenaline, and that makes your whole system work more efficiently, and it prevents hyperventilation, which is another way that people tend to lose carbon dioxide and shift over to lactic acid.
Blood Pressure Regulation, Heart Failure And Muscle Atrophy - Kmud, 2012-07-20
 
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InChristAlone

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Matt Stone talks about hypoglycemia / adrenaline issues often being an issue of not enough sodium - and as Peat mentions, people who are hypothyroid or prone to a stress metabolism may have trouble retaining sodium.

Sometimes plain table salt / sodium chloride may be the most therapeutic in that regard.

Hypoglycemia: What It Is, What It Isn't, and How to Fix the Root Problem: Matt Stone: 9781500209445: Books - Amazon.ca
Thank you, yes sodium is very helpful for me, but definitely not the only factor.
 
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InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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Does this reaction occur when you eat comparable fat sources such as butter? If not it's not the fat causing the reaction. If it is do you take any b vitamins besides niacinamide? b6 is involved in fat metabolism and you might have a deficiency. It can also improve blood sugar but watch out at first for severe drops in blood sugar if you take it in high doses. (I do 5k mg twice a day).

Taurine is very effective at helping to redirect tryptophan away from conversion to serotonin. I often take it with protein meals for this purpose. It also increases metabolism and some other helpful hormones.

I second the advice on sodium.
I think it really depends on the kind of meal, I have really had digestion slow down from a fatty meal and then lead to nausea and things like that, but like I said ive been eating a lot of fat for several months and don't always get this reaction so you may be right. I don't take many other vitamins because I seem to react to all of them in some way. I have P5P and if I take only a few mg by the 2 nd day I get nightmares so it seems like yes it does cause low blood sugar. I need to try the taurine more, the last time I tried again by the 2nd day I had a big increase in bile or something , maybe I need to learn how to persist?
 
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InChristAlone

InChristAlone

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Do you use progesterone and/or thyroid? Peat has said that progesterone helps stabilize blood sugar. It has worked for me when I have felt "off" and can't seem to get rid of my stress symptoms with food or drink.

The liver is sluggish in this function among thyroid-deficient individuals…Since a sluggish liver is the most common cause of hypoglycemia, it should follow that the hypothyroid patient is highly susceptible to low blood sugar.” -Broda Barnes, MD, PhD and Charlotte Barnes


RP: The main thing that keeps blood sugar stable is the ability of your liver to store sugar, wherever it got it, it needs Thyroid hormone to store sugar, it also makes you use your sugar more sparingly, producing many more times of ATP molecules per unit of food, you get if you metabolise it into lactic acid which you do when you don’t have enough Thyroid. Thyroid makes you spare your glucose, not waste it, and store it in the liver, so it’s the basic thing for stabilizing your blood sugar. If you have cholesterol, which is only produced if the liver is in good condition, low cholesterol is behind serious adrenal failure, because raw cholesterol is raw material all of Pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA, and cortisol. If your cholesterol is low and thyroid is low, you can’t make any of these. If you don’t make enough of these other steroids, then you will turn any trace of cholesterol into Adrenaline or Cortisol and get ecess cortisol, so you can get either adrenal failure or adrenal over activity, as a result of having a sick liver or any underactive thyroid.

This last part I emphasized.

Have you had your cholesterol measured recently?

Another thought. A revelation with my son in regards to his symptoms of cortisol. He takes t3 so his cholesterol is being used for protective hormones very quickly. His cortisol symptoms then return. He consumes quite a bit of oj and other sugars but he also has added coconut oil to his diet. In the East West interview on cholesterol, they mention saturated fat, particularly coconut oil as being effective at lowering cholesterol. This just came to mind while making this post.
I used to take thyroid, I was on it for 1.5 yrs and it got my temp and pulse up to normal but then I got my postpartum menstrual cycle 2 yrs ago and never been the same since, went off the thyroid because I was scared. Felt like I was dieing at times. Went to the ER with a panic attack once. Hormones all turned out to be low (and dr didn't test cholesterol!!!!!!!!!!!) TSH 2.2, but I've only been using progest-e, my cycles are pretty regular. But I have bad bulging veins on my hands particularly when I'm warm. My temp and pulse are still fine, pulse tends to be 90 or above though. I will get my cholesterol checked. Been avoiding getting that done for too long.
 

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