How to be seen as the "alpha male" sorta guy other than with looks?

[Eberhardt]

This. As a youngish female in her breeding age years (?) every post the OP makes reeks of self doubt/self criticism/uncertainty/blaming society-others for his lack of "social status".

Nothing, not a single thing, about this makes me feel safe, secure, confident, that I or any potential offspring would be provided for on any level...

It also sure as hell doesn't get me excited down below LOL

You have to work on your self confidence, game plan for your life, & actually become someone who can be seen as a potential provider beyond the concept of how much $ you earn.(although that never hurts)

I know plenty of men who aren't handsome in the traditional sense that are quickly viewed as attractive once interacted with because their body language screams it.

Get out of your head OP.

P.S~ Your social awkwardness is super apparent, might be worth looking into how this correlates with sky high serotonin.

While Im in no position to argue whats doing it for you, and generally symphatize with your reaction - I imagine it to be quite offputting - I cant help but wonder about the content.. Being provided for sounds extremelybunattractive and something only worth it in a postapocalyptic setting. Wouldnt a sexy confident and respectful (in thebright ways)man with humour beat being provided for? That sounds so alien an authoritharian to me - though I have a very welldeveloped sense of protection to any woman Im with.

Genuinely wanting an answer to whybyoubwould want that

 

[Nomane Euger]

While Im in no position to argue whats doing it for you, and generally symphatize with your reaction - I imagine it to be quite offputting - I cant help but wonder about the content.. Being provided for sounds extremelybunattractive and something only worth it in a postapocalyptic setting. Wouldnt a sexy confident and respectful (in thebright ways)man with humour beat being provided for? That sounds so alien an authoritharian to me - though I have a very welldeveloped sense of protection to any woman Im with.

Genuinely wanting an answer to whybyoubwould want that

hi,why do most men like boobs and booty?do we choose our tendencies?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Being provided for sounds extremelybunattractive and something only worth it in a postapocalyptic setting.

Really?

Were the 1950's (and pretty much all of recorded human history) a "post apocalyptic setting?"

She's basically describing traditional roles, with the man going out to work (or hunt) and having the brute force necessary to protect his wife, children, and property from intruders, mostly men, maybe also animal.

In return, the wife usually took care of the house and the children and tasks like cooking and such. Maybe the wife was more "provided for" in the monetary sense, but there was really a division of labor, and it tended to be a mutually beneficial relationship.

 

[ecstatichamster]

hi,why do most men like boobs and booty?do we choose our tendencies?

Don’t forget legs…don’t ever forget legs, LOL.

I think we pick up our tendencies very early in life somewhat randomly as pleasure gets anchored to a particular experience or fantasy. Thus begins the wiring process.

 

[golder]

Don’t forget the female foot either!

 

[Sphagnum]

As someone who can personally relate to some (but not all) of your issues, and learned to overcome a lot of it, I'll offer some personal advice.

First, let me relate a metaphor. Last weekend I took my daughter out for the first time to learn to ride her bike without training wheels. There were little pieces of advice I was able to give her as I observed her mistakes, such as starting with a pedal in the top position to get a better push off, or to keep her hands even spaced on the handlebars to steer correctly. There's one thing I couldn't teach her though, and its the hardest part of riding a bike: Keeping her balance. No matter how much I analyzed what she did right or wrong, I couldn't teach her balance, and she can't 'learn' balance. The only way to become accustomed to balancing on a bike it to get going and see how it feels. When you first try, you fail, fall, and it hurts. When you try again, you fail, fall, and it hurts. She skinned her elbow, her hands, and crashed into a few walls. But she kept trying, and within a surprisingly short time, she had the hang of it. Eventually riding a bike becomes so easy that you wonder how you ever struggled, and the thoughts and fears of skinning a knee are long gone.

Here's my personal advice from experience: You need to put yourself out there. If you're going to make excuses about "barriers to entry" or whatever other excuses YOU made up in YOUR OWN MIND then you'll never get anywhere socially. It doesn't matter if you've tried before and it didn't work out how you would have wanted. TRY AGAIN! And keep trying, immediately, over and over.
Stop analyzing and start doing. If you're not willing to take the plunge and make the first moves, then I can promise you that nothing is ever going to change and you shouldn't bother reading the rest of my post, or anyone else's for that matter. It starts with you BEING SOCIAL over and over and over until you get where you want to be. If you aren't willing to go out and DO then you may as well resign being one of those "incels" and talking/analyzing your days away. Not saying there's anything wrong with that, but its where you're headed with your current mindset.

Yes, being proactively social will feel awkward and you won't like that. Yeah, you might get that same cold shoulder that you're currently hiding from, and it will feel shitty. But these aren't the only people left on Earth. Nor is the next group. Nor are any of the people anywhere you go privy to any social failures you've had before.

Yeah, people often already have their cliques. So what? Do you think that group of 3 students down your street only talk to each other and no one else??? Go take a class, join a team, or anything else where no one really knows each other anyway. Those college students down the street from you didn't know each other ahead of time. They met, socialized, and now they're a group. One of many in each of their lives.

Now here are a few 'tips' to make it work better. They may sound cliché, but they hold true today as they have since the beginning of civilization:
-Stand up straight.
-Speak to be heard.
-Make eye contact.
You can't fake confidence, but you can avoid broadcasting your lack thereof. You don't need to strut around like you own the place, you just need to carry yourself like you belong. By the way, you DO belong there, just as much as anyone else. So remember that, and carry yourself as such.

It won't be easy, it will be work.
It won't start off feeling good, it will be awkward.
It won't come right away, it will take some time.
But I can guarantee you that you're going to be miles ahead of wherever you'd be trying to analyze and strategize some hypothetical optimal entry.

Oh, and drop the whole "alpha" concept of socialization. It doesn't apply to you, and it won't do anything but keep you stuck in analysis paralysis.

 

[TobyBjorn]

Looks and maximizing ones appearance is well-discussed in lots of places. Tanner Guzy's book Appearance of Power makes a good argument for dressing well. Always smell good.
But even with some mediocre looks and ratty clothing I got a lot of female attention when I was younger. (I get more now, but I have improved the factors.) The best way to be interesting is to be interested, preferably in valued or more universal topics. If you can be curious and have a basic conversant level of knowledge about history, science, mythology, religion, art, athletics, and psychology you will be fascinating to many people. If you can push that farther with well-tuned social skills the world is yours.

 

[Nomane Euger]

Don’t forget legs…don’t ever forget legs, LOL.

I think we pick up our tendencies very early in life somewhat randomly as pleasure gets anchored to a particular experience or fantasy. Thus begins the wiring process.

certains desires including certains sexual ones are inherent and are not caused by particular experiences

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Reckon with the fact that men are born evil, and must undergo tremendous refining fire to be good and worthy of leading a woman.

 

[Jinzo]

Incels say it is all about looks. Naturally I'd agree since there is an inherent simplicity to it that just speaks common sense.

On the flipside I have always hated being the odd one out which is why I do not try to "fit in" with most people anymore.

I don't believe my looks are irredeemable forever but still want to explore some other social dynamics at play here.

So if not looks ONLY then status too? How do you become seen more in the same light as the alpha through having status (with some looks of course too)?

I have never seen this. All guys I see who have "status" tend to be pretty decent looking dudes even if not flawless.

I do not want to be the low status loser of every group to act as an appeaser while never moving up ranks.

I can't think of what social club or avenue or whatnot where I'd have any advantage. Like I imagine if I were to hypothetically join a group of mixed gender/sex losers to appear like the top dog said group would either already have someone in this position, or said group would not exist.

I do not want to waste anymore time trying to appease others or watch others inside have fun while I just play the pitiful or weird observer.

Someone said on an incel site that sex ratio affects things maybe -- that a lone guy or few guys around many fold more girls would be seen as more alpha-esque by default.

The problem? Only in theory does such a place or social structure exist where tons of females occupy while almost no males do -- especially where these few males also appear high status rather than just an after thought.

See since I have no hope for social success with no options now I basically focus on looks since it seems there is no other way to be successful unless you have the right social conditions and structures to be in the right "place" to be successful with women and money and whatnot.

I had also thought of moving, but if you barely get anything where you live to begin with.....

I wanted to join groups but it feels like the barrier to entry in to anything is either unclear, or your presence does not benefit others.

Like I live near a college area and see people relatively in my age group but feel everyone is locked down and closed off. Like some girls and guys hang out but there is no way to "break in" unless you are already good looking enough or popular or some mix of these two things. Also I obviously do not want to fit in to a group just for the sake of being in a group ... I want to go where I am wanted or liked and you know. I think forcing yourself where you are not wanted is not optimal. Plus even if you "share interests" I have a history of having been flat-out ignored and avoided even in the midst of social stuff -- i.e., others just stick with who they know and who benefits them. In this case I would have to depend on having phenomenal traits in some way, or the perfect "opening" or environment or social area where I would "win" by default.

I considered art kinda "circles" but they are too vague and messy -- no real "structure" but honestly that can apply or boil down to many social systems these days anyways.

I just feel that -- if people knew they could benefit from me -- then they would want to hang out around me. No point forcing someone to eat some offering they are not in the mood for, you know?

I just basically can't find where or how to "win" socially rather than just sail on by, which I do anyways.

It is like you can try more to "be social" but that does not necessarily make you attractive nor successful. If it did then what merit would a looks discrepancy show? Clearly it is not 100% about one's looks but sometimes other attributes are far too exaggerated as well (like how one acts when I have seen douchebag guys with friends and girls and sex and social respect and such, while some nice and very helpful and good natured guys are virgins with 2 friends maybe).

But this is a fine place for deep and multi-faceted, intellectual and scientific-type discussions (unlike most incel forums).

You're getting bad advice on this thread man. I will chime in but first, how old are you?

 

[Eberhardt]

hi,why do most men like boobs and booty?do we choose our tendencies?

Nope, that was my initial point, I wasnt just polite. Guess I wondered because there is no loss of autonomy on part of the man by liking boobs. Im not saying u are stupid and its easier for me to wrap my head around say , you like beards or big muscles, even money if its interpreted as the guy having drive and will. Bit those doesnt take anything away from the womans autonomy. Im not distressed just interested.

I get how it might be interesting down there with powermismatch, but not the rest. Anyways just trying to explain why I wonder. What you like is not my business, per se

 

[JamesGatz]

Not to derail from all the other points, which are actually more important and more actionable, but I’ve been looking into jaw/skull expansion recently and was wondering if you wouldn’t mind sharing some resources you found valuable in this area. Cheers.​

The most useful resource is probably TGW -

Whole Body Breathing – Complete Healing

the-great-work.org

this site has people a lot more knowledgable than I when it comes to linking everything together. Breathing Correctly, Posture and so on:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFpdrpX8a7k


Besides this, I placed more of the more important information I learned in this thread:

Such as the connection of your pelvis and jaws (sticking out your pelvis will subsequently support forward growth of the jaws) and using your buccinator muscles for support (making a kiss/duck face will leverage your jaws forward using your buccinator muscles)

How to BREATHE while mewing and why some people have no mewing results

Yep! I notice that Native Americans in general have great bone structure - many of the cribs they constructed for their children for example seemed to encourage skull development (this is hinted in the video @emac posted) There's another thing that helps that I forgot to attach to the thread...

raypeatforum.com

Overall - I think it's 100% possible to grow your jaws significantly in adulthood in a short amount of time as long as you remain low-stress and consistently metabolically healthy (I think the main issue is that modern people in modern societies are chronically stressed) - a list of other methods that I think are helpful are:

- Chewing (at least 30 minutes a day I think is extremely important)
- Avoiding sitting in chairs as its a stressful position on the spine and subsequently jaws- standing and squatting especially are a lot better
- Growing hair out - I think longer hair is extremely important for both sexes and is a major reason why males seem to be so much more chronically stressed than females
- Avoiding mask-wearing​

- Wearing conductive metals (jewelry)
- Spending a lot more time outside especially around many trees/nature I think is hugely metabolically supporting and supporting of jaw growth.
- Head insulation and thyroid insulation (wearing a hat and/or scarf)

- The Right clothing and footwear (from all my experimentation - I think Wool is probably one of the best clothing materials if you are looking for DHT-supported skull growth or Cashmere if you are looking for Progesterone supported forward growth. For shoes I think leather is by far the best especially with soles that are leather as well - rubber soles prevent grounding)
- The Right Lighting (incandescent and red lighting to counter stress from Blue Light Exposure)
- Air filters and ionizers (if you can find one that doesn't output ozone)

that's all that comes to my mind currently, but I know I definitely have more that will come to me.
​

I believe looks should not be treated as a vanity problem - it has major effects on your breathing, stress, and lifestyle in general. I think in general many on this forum would see major differences in their metabolic health once they focus on breathing correctly and restoring their faces and spines to their full potential

 

[Nomane Euger]

Nope, that was my initial point, I wasnt just polite. Guess I wondered because there is no loss of autonomy on part of the man by liking boobs. Im not saying u are stupid and its easier for me to wrap my head around say , you like beards or big muscles, even money if its interpreted as the guy having drive and will. Bit those doesnt take anything away from the womans autonomy. Im not distressed just interested.

I get how it might be interesting down there with powermismatch, but not the rest. Anyways just trying to explain why I wonder. What you like is not my business, per se

do you consider autonomy as the ultimate metric of value/interest for women?are you a man or a woman?

 

[Eberhardt]

Really?

Were the 1950's (and pretty much all of recorded human history) a "post apocalyptic setting?"

She's basically describing traditional roles, with the man going out to work (or hunt) and having the brute force necessary to protect his wife, children, and property from intruders, mostly men, maybe also animal.

In return, the wife usually took care of the house and the children and tasks like cooking and such. Maybe the wife was more "provided for" in the monetary sense, but there was really a division of labor, and it tended to be a mutually beneficial relationship.

I dont think that's relevant.(50's) All kind of weird arrangements has been around. If you look at surely modern, but still more archaic societiws like hunter gatherers most have a fairly communal way of living and the women are not that dependent on the men though theybsure benefit, but the women alsonprovide as much food. Even furtjer back both sexea hunted suggested by paleanthropology. So while I do belive there to be a certain biological component to being protected and I think that sexual attraction is a seperate area, as a whole I see no proof or even indication why being provided for is more then a peculiar modern quirk.

Im not about to meddle in what otjer people prefer bit I must say I find a woman thay cant take care of her self and is docile and dependent extremely offputting . It feels degrading and weak

 

[Eberhardt]

do you consider autonomy as the ultimate metric of value/interest for women?are you a man or a woman?

Not the ultimate but absolutly important. I guess theres no such thinh as one ultimate trait for most people but a mix.

I am male

 

[Nomane Euger]

Not the ultimate but absolutly important. I guess theres no such thinh as one ultimate trait for most people but a mix.

I am male

how do you feel?i have noticed that when i feel great,high degree of energy/power/masculinity i manifest the tendancie to do things/give to others,men and women,but specifically women,and it feel great,not off putting at all,when i have less energy and felt worst,the ideas and actions about making things giving things to others isnt as pleasing and it can reach a state when its displeasing,in this case when my sister ask me to do things for her,it cause me bad feelings to varying degrees

 

[I'm.No.One]

While Im in no position to argue whats doing it for you, and generally symphatize with your reaction - I imagine it to be quite offputting - I cant help but wonder about the content.. Being provided for sounds extremelybunattractive and something only worth it in a postapocalyptic setting. Wouldnt a sexy confident and respectful (in thebright ways)man with humour beat being provided for? That sounds so alien an authoritharian to me - though I have a very welldeveloped sense of protection to any woman Im with.

Genuinely wanting an answer to whybyoubwould want that

Here I'll put what you said into layman's terms:

"I don't have any desire to provide any sort of physical well-being/security for a female, she should be so lucky to bare witness to my awesome physique and witty sense of humor."

Seriously the issue here is you don't comprehend what being a provider means.

So you're going off of what apocalyptic movies you have watched.

You have also clearly ostracized yourself from the way humans have functioned for thousands of years & in doing so view a functional family unit as "alien".

This mindset typically (albeit, subconsciously) usually plays out in the female taking on a mother role because that's what happens when men think it's antiquated to provide for their female partner.

Yep, that sh!t turns me on?

 

[Herbie]

Yea,freedom in language ,that’s why I asked what your self mean by alpha,the commun sense of alpha a powerfull(not necessary perceived as someone trying to dominate others)influential,pleasing to the most women is a real phenomenon.most desirable traits for men are the ones that make you feel the best as a man relative to your environnement,having a good ratio ressources accumulated/ressources expended by your body while cultivating feeling your best in term of power/well being/plénitude will give you such characteristics,mostly drastic behavior changes on short mid term with some more subtil physical changes short/mid term and potentially significant physical changes on long term

Would you describe Ray Peat as an Alpha male?

 

[Nomane Euger]

Would you describe Ray Peat as an Alpha male?

it is relative to wich peoples you spend your time with,even an insecure dude can be the most powerfull person of his group,so anyone can be the most powerfull person of their group depending on who they spend time with,ray would be perceive as the most powerfull male in some group and not in others.the higher your degree of the characteristics i mentionned(there is some that i didnt mentionned,and some that i might have not realised),the most groups you will be perceived as the most powerfull person

 

[ww3not4me]

You can not get anywhere with anyone if your always the victim! Victim's get more hate than villain's often.

Passive aggressive has never gotten anything for anyone other than frustration which it delivers in abundance and salience!

You could easily see a therapist that could put you track to achieve some of this.

You have to have some goals and those skills need to be skills like being more outgoing, engaging in more random conversations with strangers, participating in social events etc.......Then you have to brake those down into smaller skills learn them and practice them in chunks then put them together and do them until you get comfortable and it just becomes part of you!

As you gain confidence in one area apply that to a new area and collect skills and use them. Engage with people just to engage with people expecting nothing from anyone. It will be awkward at first but who cares! Like Nike Just Do It!

Join a group you have interest in. Does not matter if it is an Anime Club or a Bible Study group or a Accounting Club if you have interest and attend you will slowly open up to people you did not know before but in a semi-safe place. Do this over and over again until it get's easier.