How to be seen as the "alpha male" sorta guy other than with looks?

[MetabolicTrash]

Incels say it is all about looks. Naturally I'd agree since there is an inherent simplicity to it that just speaks common sense.

On the flipside I have always hated being the odd one out which is why I do not try to "fit in" with most people anymore.

I don't believe my looks are irredeemable forever but still want to explore some other social dynamics at play here.

So if not looks ONLY then status too? How do you become seen more in the same light as the alpha through having status (with some looks of course too)?

I have never seen this. All guys I see who have "status" tend to be pretty decent looking dudes even if not flawless.

I do not want to be the low status loser of every group to act as an appeaser while never moving up ranks.

I can't think of what social club or avenue or whatnot where I'd have any advantage. Like I imagine if I were to hypothetically join a group of mixed gender/sex losers to appear like the top dog said group would either already have someone in this position, or said group would not exist.

I do not want to waste anymore time trying to appease others or watch others inside have fun while I just play the pitiful or weird observer.

Someone said on an incel site that sex ratio affects things maybe -- that a lone guy or few guys around many fold more girls would be seen as more alpha-esque by default.

The problem? Only in theory does such a place or social structure exist where tons of females occupy while almost no males do -- especially where these few males also appear high status rather than just an after thought.

See since I have no hope for social success with no options now I basically focus on looks since it seems there is no other way to be successful unless you have the right social conditions and structures to be in the right "place" to be successful with women and money and whatnot.

I had also thought of moving, but if you barely get anything where you live to begin with.....

I wanted to join groups but it feels like the barrier to entry in to anything is either unclear, or your presence does not benefit others.

Like I live near a college area and see people relatively in my age group but feel everyone is locked down and closed off. Like some girls and guys hang out but there is no way to "break in" unless you are already good looking enough or popular or some mix of these two things. Also I obviously do not want to fit in to a group just for the sake of being in a group ... I want to go where I am wanted or liked and you know. I think forcing yourself where you are not wanted is not optimal. Plus even if you "share interests" I have a history of having been flat-out ignored and avoided even in the midst of social stuff -- i.e., others just stick with who they know and who benefits them. In this case I would have to depend on having phenomenal traits in some way, or the perfect "opening" or environment or social area where I would "win" by default.

I considered art kinda "circles" but they are too vague and messy -- no real "structure" but honestly that can apply or boil down to many social systems these days anyways.

I just feel that -- if people knew they could benefit from me -- then they would want to hang out around me. No point forcing someone to eat some offering they are not in the mood for, you know?

I just basically can't find where or how to "win" socially rather than just sail on by, which I do anyways.

It is like you can try more to "be social" but that does not necessarily make you attractive nor successful. If it did then what merit would a looks discrepancy show? Clearly it is not 100% about one's looks but sometimes other attributes are far too exaggerated as well (like how one acts when I have seen douchebag guys with friends and girls and sex and social respect and such, while some nice and very helpful and good natured guys are virgins with 2 friends maybe).

But this is a fine place for deep and multi-faceted, intellectual and scientific-type discussions (unlike most incel forums).

 

[LeeLemonoil]

You gain status by offering something useful or tradeable to others. It’s the long, hard road for those that aren’t born into status be it material or looks, charisma, health. Long and hard - but infallible way:

Learn a skillful trade and become good in it.
Don’t focus on looks but health, especially strength.

 

[Matestube]

By taking testosterone. Just try it, you'll know what I mean. Until you do you'll think I don't understand your problems.

 

[Bootselectric]

… By not trying to (too hard)

 

[tankasnowgod]

Incels say it is all about looks. Naturally I'd agree since there is an inherent simplicity to it that just speaks common sense.

Why are you listening to so called "Incels" if you are interested in being more social or having more success with dating women? Incels are experts at being non-social. You should only listen to them if you want to be more like them.

On the flipside I have always hated being the odd one out which is why I do not try to "fit in" with most people anymore.

I don't believe my looks are irredeemable forever but still want to explore some other social dynamics at play here.

So if not looks ONLY then status too? How do you become seen more in the same light as the alpha through having status (with some looks of course too)?

I have never seen this. All guys I see who have "status" tend to be pretty decent looking dudes even if not flawless.

Looks aren't everything. I have known some very slovenly guys who had success both socially and with dating.

Having said that, I also notice that people who have charisma or good attitudes in general tend to "look" better as you get to know them. I have also seen the opposite, a stunning looking woman seem to get uglier the more I got to know her, as she had a foul personality, at the time.

And beyond that, there's obviously lots you can change about your own looks, from a different haircut, to a different beard style (growing it out, or shaving it off), getting different clothes, working on yourself though diet/gym/supplements/hormones. Some of these can be done quickly, like a haircut in the afternoon, others can take some time and effort. Neil Strauss is a good example of a guy who radically changed his look, through different clothing, haircut, beard style, and getting Lasik. You could do some of the same types of things yourself (I wouldn't mess with lasik personally, but hairstyles and clothes are easy).

If you ever watched the show "The Americans," you can see how dramatically hair (often fake), makeup, and clothes can change the looks of a person-

Keri Russell’s Spy Disguises Have Been the Best Part of The Americans

All the inspiration and ’80s research that went into the many, many costumes.

www.racked.com

The Americans: the best and worst disguises from the cold war thriller

From frumpy 80s housewives to a janitor who bears a resemblance to a certain Mr Rust Cohle, the disguises on FX’s spy series have gone from the sublime to the ridiculous

www.theguardian.com

 

[MetabolicTrash]

Why are you listening to so called "Incels" if you are interested in being more social or having more success with dating women? Incels are experts at being non-social. You should only listen to them if you want to be more like them.

By that logic, shouldn't I only listen to demonstrable alpha males if I wanted advice on being more of an alpha?

Just saying that both can be right and wrong somewhat. Incels say some stupidly wrong things sometimes, but the opposite of being incel doesn't by virtue make one an expert on being a non-incel or more successful or whatnot.

 

[MetabolicTrash]

By taking testosterone. Just try it, you'll know what I mean. Until you do you'll think I don't understand your problems.

No, I'm pretty sure I get what you mean somewhat.

The only rebuttal is that I don't have low testostetone and do not see any benefit in joining the ranks of experimental megadosing just on a whim of advice possibly given under the assumption that my testosterone levels are far from sufficient to achieve some particular end you might be alluding towards.

Plus I see plenty of "soy boys" who are stereotyped as being very low T who are socially successful or happy-ish at least, although usually not sexually successful (beyond a single woman).

I don't think testosterone past a certain good point is all that some in the bodybuilding scene make it up to be. Yeah higher is better for most guys these days but you might've mistaken me for being one of the worst off in the bunch. If you have levels similar to young guys back in the 40s and 50s and 60s then you are sufficient -- anymore might be reaching for some guys at least.

 

[tankasnowgod]

By that logic, shouldn't I only listen to demonstrable alpha males if I wanted advice on being more of an alpha?

Yeah. Duh.

Although, I don't know why you said "only." Incel, by definition, are guys who have zero success with romance or finding a sexual partner. How are they going to give you any good advice in this area of your life?

This doesn't mean you have to start listening to rakish pickup artists, and them alone. You could also find some guys who have been in a relationship a long time, maybe even got married, and listen to and/or befriend them. Maybe also get some female friends who could give you insight, advice or help you update your look and wardrobe. Maybe they would even try to fix you up with their single friends.

Just saying that both can be right and wrong somewhat.

If they have ever been "right," why would they have zero success?

Incels say some stupidly wrong things sometimes, but the opposite of being incel doesn't by virtue make one an expert on being a non-incel or more successful or whatnot.

I don't know what you are even trying to say here. But again, by definition, Incels have zero success with women. If you wanted to become an airline pilot, would you try to learn from someone who has never even seen a plane?

So why, if you are trying to become more successful in the dating world, would you listen to guys who have had no success now or in the past?

 

[Gânico]

You can always improve your social tact with better metabolism and pro-dopamine and anti-serotonin substances, but to be seem as "alpha male", unfortunately you will have to look like one, lol.

 

[JamesGatz]

The biggest issue I find with YouTubers and influencers downplaying the importance of looks is that:

They treat it as a 1-dimensional problem

Looks are not just about getting women

As a man - your problems will not all of a sudden go away if you smash a 9/10 or 10/10 chick.

Looks are about a higher quality of life

- Your face is a status symbol in itself (attractive men are automatically perceived as higher status)

- You will get greater success in school and your workplace due to lookism

- Both men and women treat you better throughout your life in general

- Your airways and foodways are much larger so in general you are a lot less stressed than an unattractive person. You have a much easier time breathing through your nose and eating.

Given how important breathing through the nose is to metabolism, it's metabolic benefits cannot be understated as well

- As a good looking man - women chase you rather than you having to put the effort in to the other way around.

Dating coaches act like "receipts" mean anything - it's a joke. Even if they are sexually successful they had to put in significant amounts of effort rather than just laying back and letting the girl come to you

These men might get with a decent chick, but at the end of the day she LET the dude smash, she wasn't chasing after him

They will never know the feeling of a chick truly desiring and chasing after them so it's a coping mechanism

The only thing a "Life Coach/Dating Coach/PUA scammer" should be teaching is Jaw and Skull Expansion.

Status and confidence CANNOT be faked - your hormonal profile, metabolism and subsequently your looks all play factors.

 

[Gânico]

I don't know what you are even trying to say here. But again, by definition, Incels have zero success with women. If you wanted to become an airline pilot, would you try to learn from someone who has never even seen a plane?

So why, if you are trying to become more successful in the dating world, would you listen to guys who have had no success now or in the past?

Seeking advices from sucessful males will be worthless as they will regurgitate things like: "just be yourself, bro", "just get a haircut", "just take a shower", etc. Incels understand the root causes of one person being unable to get "laid"

Just think about it, many people in this forum have extensive health knowledge because their health were or are in shambles, we learned what we learned because health issues, incels learned from relationship issues.

 

[ecstatichamster]

To answer the question, I couldn’t care less.

And that is the essence of it.

 

[Aad]

Fix your teeth and jaw

 

[tankasnowgod]

Seeking advices from sucessful males will be worthless as they will regurgitate things like: "just be yourself, bro", "just get a haircut", "just take a shower", etc. Incels understand the root causes of one person being unable to get "laid"

Well, if your hair is a disaster and you don't shower, that would be solid advice. At least those last two actions would be a taking some sort of action to solve your problem.

And how many "sucessful males" have you really gotten to know? After you showered and got that haircut, did you bother to go back to them and say "Okay, I took your advice. What's the next step?"

Just think about it, many people in this forum have extensive health knowledge because their health were or are in shambles, we learned what we learned because health issues, incels learned from relationship issues.

I don't buy this comparison. Sure, someone who has a problem and then DOES something to overcome it is an excellent person to listen to. And it would be good to have a friendship with someone who has a similar issue who is also dedicated to overcome it or solve the problem.

But, obviously, if an "incel" learned from his relationship issues and then overcame them, he, by definition, wouldn't be an "incel" anymore, and I doubt he would go to "incel" forums. Sure, most of the people here had (or still have) some sort of health issue, but this is forum focused on improving your health and learning about it, not just complaining about whatever issues you have.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Dating coaches act like "receipts" mean anything - it's a joke. Even if they are sexually successful they had to put in significant amounts of effort rather than just laying back and letting the girl come to you

This is silly, too. If the lazy approach of just laying around at home in your boxers worked with any regularity, then no man would ever need to put any effort into doing anything. I don't know of anyone who ever had a relationship built on this.

Obviously you have to put some sort of effort into it. If not into building your social skills or social circle, then building your wealth or your looks. Sure, there has to be some mutual attraction, and at some point, a girl should come to you, but to expect to do this with no effort is just a recipe for failure.

Status and confidence CANNOT be faked

This is like saying that "driving a car CANNOT be faked." True, but that doesn't mean it can't be learned (or earned). Either one of those is going to take effort.

 

[Gânico]

Well, if your hair is a disaster and you don't shower, that would be solid advice. At least those last two actions would be a taking some sort of action to solve your problem.

And how many "sucessful males" have you really gotten to know? After you showered and got that haircut, did you bother to go back to them and say "Okay, I took your advice. What's the next step?"

I don't think you got it, incels usually are below average dudes, in a world where even average guys struggle to get laid due to hypergamy, which social media significantly boosted

The archetype of the guy who is popular with females usually is a very good looking one and never had to put any significant effort to get girls, that's why many of his "advices" would be worthless to incels, because their naturally bad facial/body composition due to bad genetics and/or environment, which "haircuts" or "showers" won't fix at all.

I don't buy this comparison. Sure, someone who has a problem and then DOES something to overcome it is an excellent person to listen to. And it would be good to have a friendship with someone who has a similar issue who is also dedicated to overcome it or solve the problem.

But, obviously, if an "incel" learned from his relationship issues and then overcame them, he, by definition, wouldn't be an "incel" anymore, and I doubt he would go to "incel" forums. Sure, most of the people here had (or still have) some sort of health issue, but this is forum focused on improving your health and learning about it, not just complaining about whatever issues you have.

Well, there two sects, those who just give up after realizing the bitter truth, and those trying to improve themselves both physically and mentally.

And it's important to note that because many of them are screwed due to bad environmennt / epigenetics most have mental issues like autism, which just contribute to destabilize them further.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I don't think you got it, incels usually are below average dudes, in a world where even average guys struggle to get laid due to hypergamy, which social media significantly boosted

No, I totally get that they might be "below average." Obviously, they should try and work on themselves.

Plus, if those guys have a focus on just "getting laid," I can understand why women and even more successful guys wouldn't want to be around them.

The archetype of the guy who is popular with females usually is a very good looking one and never had to put any significant effort to get girls, that's why many of his "advices" would be worthless to incels, because their naturally bad facial/body composition due to bad genetics and/or environment, which "haircuts" or "showers" won't fix at all.

First off.... did I make any claim that a haircut or shower would fix all their problems? No. But clearly, you have to take SOME steps towards any goal you want to achieve.

When a teen is learning to drive, they are usually taken to an empty parking lot or low traffic side street to get familiar with how a car works. Now, does that mean they are ready to drive at top speed cross country on Interstate 10 for a road trip? Of course not. But if they don't ever learn how the gas, brake, or steering wheel works, they will never get there in the first place.

And second, why are you using the word "archetype?" People generally don't use that word when they are talking about a real world conversation or encounter they had with a real person. This suggests that you never really asked any successful guy for advice in this area, and are instead just reporting what you assume they would say when asked, or asked other unsuccessful guys what advice they imagined a successful guy would give them. Since you posted a 4chan image with those exact quotes, I'm guessing you never actually heard any successful guy utter any of the advice that you claimed.

Well, there two sects, those who just give up after realizing the bitter truth, and those trying to improve themselves both physically and mentally.

And obviously, the ones who work on themselves will do far better.

And it's important to note that because many of them are screwed due to bad environmennt / epigenetics most have mental issues like autism, which just contribute to destabilize them further.

Important to note.... for what? The only question really is if they are going to try to work to improve themselves, or

 

[OccamzRazer]

It's a mindset broooo!

Just be 100% comfortable in your own skin and stay in touch with God along the way.

Thinking is often the enemy of being. And I say that as a chronic overthinker myself.

 

[baccheion]

Hormones, reading/learning, and practice. Looks and status are strongly correlated. Status can be bought, especially as it is mostly online nowadays. If wanting to be at the helm of a group, create your own group.

50/50 shot at likemindedness match. Same with minimum mutual core romantic match. 1 out of 2 people are at least not unattractive, 1 out of 3 people are outright attractive or hot, and 1 out of 5 are hot.

Assimilating into a group is hit or miss, unless willing to compromise self by adopting an engineered persona. Such an approach is rarely sustainable, but can be good at certain times.

People underestimate the power of aesthetics. Women care most about looks, interests, and "fun" (guessing that means heat/spark/chemistry). Spend time improving aesthetics. A ranking of personality types by attractiveness left almost all extroverts in the top 8 (out of 16). That is, extroverts tend to mind their appearance more. Gym, dressing, grooming, diet, sleep, nutrition, vitamin C serum (???), hormones, etc. Would've been good to learn about that when younger.

There are supplements/nootropics to aid socialization also. Aniracetam. Etc.

Most celebrities live in isolation, have to make scheduled/prepared appearances, and are wary of being around people. Life is an illusion. Same with being rich and famous, yet having to pay top dollar for prostitutes anyway.

So then realism also. Curate and build a group. Learn how to make such a thing happen.

As for getting along with others, most groups aren't trying to be rude. That is, basic etiquette (ie, blending in) is usually enough.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Contribute. People want people who make their lives better.