How much protein do you guys eat?

[gretchen]

I'm short; 50-80 grams a day. 25 grams per meal to feel good, but it depends.

My main staples are milk, cheese, egg yolks, oysters, small amounts of meat, and lately, lentils, for the glycine-to-methionine ratio. It's an experiment. :--)

 

[superhuman]

200-250g a day

 

[nikotrope]

Peat said it takes nearly a quart of OJ to properly balance 1 large egg

I'm not sure if he intended that for everyone or if he just meant you need to eat sufficiently with that egg in an amount which depends on you. I'm also not sure what would be worse if I had to drink 2 quarts of OJ just after eating a small snack of 2 eggs: the price and time it takes to make that orange juice just for 1 snack, or the effect on my metabolism.

RP said a lot of things for this. 2 eggs with one glass of milk and one glass of OJ is fine. 1 egg with 10 ounces of OJ is fine (carbs:protein ratio is 6:1 on this one) and he said that he takes a pint of OJ for an egg.

http://peatarian.com/peatexchanges#eggs

viewtopic.php?t=3491#p41262

 

[tara]

RP has said a MINIMUM 2:1 ratio so for people that want to loose fat and stuff that is the ratio you use.

This is the impression I had too - ~ 2c:1p minimum.
(No need to be rude.)

 

[tara]

Peat said it takes nearly a quart of OJ to properly balance 1 large egg

I'm not sure if he intended that for everyone or if he just meant you need to eat sufficiently with that egg in an amount which depends on you. I'm also not sure what would be worse if I had to drink 2 quarts of OJ just after eating a small snack of 2 eggs: the price and time it takes to make that orange juice just for 1 snack, or the effect on my metabolism.

RP said a lot of things for this. 2 eggs with one glass of milk and one glass of OJ is fine. 1 egg with 10 ounces of OJ is fine (carbs:protein ratio is 6:1 on this one) and he said that he takes a pint of OJ for an egg.

http://peatarian.com/peatexchanges#eggs

viewtopic.php?t=3491#p41262

I too got the impression he thought it was variable per person. But I thought the idea was to drink the OJ first (or at least together with) the egg, not egg first, as that could set up a quick stress response that can be avoided if the sugar is in the system first? This is what I usually do, and if I start a meal with protein and follow it with carbs, it doesn't feel as good.

 

[jyb]

I too got the impression he thought it was variable per person. But I thought the idea was to drink the OJ first (or at least together with) the egg, not egg first, as that could set up a quick stress response that can be avoided if the sugar is in the system first? This is what I usually do, and if I start a meal with protein and follow it with carbs, it doesn't feel as good.

Stress response because you're starting to be hungry or hypoglycaemic? I only get hypoglycaemic when I go too low on fat. I tried low fat and *very* frequent dose of OJ for years, but there was always unpredictable times when it wasn't enough and got a stress from low energy.

 

[tara]

I too got the impression he thought it was variable per person. But I thought the idea was to drink the OJ first (or at least together with) the egg, not egg first, as that could set up a quick stress response that can be avoided if the sugar is in the system first? This is what I usually do, and if I start a meal with protein and follow it with carbs, it doesn't feel as good.

Stress response because you're starting to be hungry or hypoglycaemic? I only get hypoglycaemic when I go too low on fat. I tried low fat and *very* frequent dose of OJ for years, but there was always unpredictable times when it wasn't enough and got a stress from low energy.

Yes, hungry, eg breaking fast. This is common for some of us - needing to eat frequently.

Isn't Peat's point that eating eggs particularly stimulates a strong insulin response, which can then drive blood sugar down too low, which then increases stress hormones adrenaline and/or cortisol to raise the blood sugar again. If that happens before we've drunk our OJ or whatever, that's an unfortunate and avoidable blood sugar and stress hormone wobble. If we take in the sugar before or at the same time as the egg, the blood sugar is less likely to go down enough to set off the stress hormones.

My understanding is that if we've got plenty of glycogen stored, a bit of adrenaline will release it without too much cortisol, and it's not too catabolic. For those of us who don't yet have strong glycogen storage, there may not be enough of it, especially first thing in the morning, so there is potential for unnecessarily catabolic cortisol response. It could also potentially mean that blood sugars go a bit high when we do eat the sugar, because we're adding it onto the glucose just released by the stress hormones. Also not great, esp. for people who have been getting worryingly high blood glucose readings. If I've misunderstood this, I hope someone will corerct me on the theory.

Sure you might be able to reduce this fluctuation by eating more fat, but unless you go for really high fat (which has another set of problems), it doesn't necessarily completely solve this problem. Some of us are trying to improve our sugar metabolism by not relying so much on fat (since it suppresses sugar oxidation), and haven't yet got strong enough liver glycogen storage to to cope with long breaks between meals. Personally, I'm by no means eating low fat compared with some people here. I eat meat and eggs, coconut oil and butter, and some 3+% milk and chocolate (can't put a number on it at the moment), and still can't go long between fueling, and do better if I have sugar before or with protein, esp. eggs.

 

[jyb]

My understanding is that if we've got plenty of glycogen stored, a bit of adrenaline will release it without too much cortisol, and it's not too catabolic. For those of us who don't yet have strong glycogen storage, there may not be enough of it, especially first thing in the morning, so there is potential for unnecessarily catabolic cortisol response. It could also potentially mean that blood sugars go a bit high when we do eat the sugar, because we're adding it onto the glucose just released by the stress hormones. Also not great, esp. for people who have been getting worryingly high blood glucose readings. If I've misunderstood this, I hope someone will corerct me on the theory.

Sure you might be able to reduce this fluctuation by eating more fat, but unless you go for really high fat (which has another set of problems), it doesn't necessarily completely solve this problem. Some of us are trying to improve our sugar metabolism by not relying so much on fat (since it suppresses sugar oxidation), and haven't yet got strong enough liver glycogen storage to to cope with long breaks between meals. Personally, I'm by no means eating low fat compared with some people here. I eat meat and eggs, coconut oil and butter, and some 3+% milk and chocolate (can't put a number on it at the moment), and still can't go long between fueling, and do better if I have sugar before or with protein, esp. eggs.

I'll give you my opinion.

A "bit of adrenaline" release? That's basically the core of Peat's principles destroyed. Imagine the stress hormones, spiking on a daily basis or whenever you get a sudden hunger. I don't get those anymore, ever, unless I under eat or eat crappy food. Not even when I wake up in the morning. Sure I'll get hungry, but not as stressful and not as often. More like a gradual reminder that I need to eat when I haven't for too long, while remaining stable and in a good mood. Not sudden hypoglycaemia.

"glycogen storage" is low but may improve in years? Mine didn't in years. But I don't think my liver had anything wrong, now I don't have any glycemic problems whatsoever. Even during the night, I can now sleep uninterrupted without waking up hungry (i.e., huge spike in stress causing damage). If a diet doesn't give energy, then I think the very core of Peat's ideas are violated.

"suppresses sugar oxidation"? Well in general you have a choice, you can use sugar and/or fat. Fat oxidatively can also promote T3/T4 production, produce CO2, uncouple, etc. Peat seems to prefer sugar because he mentions the danger of pufa's in the fatty acids. So although his articles are never explicit about sugar / fat ratio, I think they are biased towards sugar because he recommends niacinamide a lot for example, which means using energy from sugar and ignore fat. It seems it works for some, though far from everyone. So the question is, if one tries some diet that is low pufa but it yields low energy and high stress hormones, is anything good going to happen? Other than pufa, Peat has mentioned other problems: lack of energy, nutrients, endotoxins, UV, lack of light etc. Energy is one.

The diet you described is for me low-ish fat. If I eat a bit of ice cream or cream, and whole milk (4-6% I think), that's already a lot more. But I eat more nutrients than that in a day. I don't eat more pufa percentage than what's in dairy products though, rarely eggs, and I only eat quality products (more important with fats). Whatever I do now with the diet has helped with a number of things that had been left unresolved: hunger/stress issues (typically hypoglycaemia sort of symptoms), sleep, acne (I supplement retinol a lot less), muscle soreness, body temperature and more importantly mood and social skills. Some of those are improved but not solved, but others are fixed for good I think.

 

[tara]

Mittir at least said he became able to sleep longer and go longer between meals without stress after a while of Peating, and put it down to much improved liver health, IIRC.

I would like to understand these mechanisms. How do you get glycogen out of the liver and available as glucose in the blood stream? If it's got nothing to do with adrenaline, that would be good to know - I could have misunderstood this.

I thought that apart from the PUFA issue with high fat, sugar oxidation provided significantly more CO2 than fat oxidation? Also Randle 'cycle' suppression of glucose oxidation by higher fat is concern for people with insulin resistance or diabetes type issues?

I don't know how you can judge that you eat a lot more fat than me, since I didn't give any numbers? I forgot to mention I sometimes eat a bit of cream and icecream, though not daily. My fat intake varies, but some days I think it goes up to or over 100g, which I think is a bit high for me at this stage, based on how I feel after. Other days not so much. Since I am female and sedentary, I would expect you to need more fuel than me.

 

[tara]

PS. Yes, lack of energy is obviously an important problem - in fact the key problem I and many of us are trying to solve. I doubt that high fat is going to be the solution for all of us.

 

[jyb]

I don't know how you can judge that you eat a lot more fat than me, since I didn't give any numbers? I forgot to mention I sometimes eat a bit of cream and icecream, though not daily. My fat intake varies, but some days I think it goes up to or over 100g, which I think is a bit high for me at this stage, based on how I feel after. Other days not so much. Since I am female and sedentary, I would expect you to need more fuel than me.

Well I can't know, but you mentioned milk "only" 3% i.e. processed, so that was my first reaction. I don't think butter contributes a lot, because its not something one usually eats by the spoonful I am a male and sort of tall, but sedentary (I don't exercise every month) unless you count a moderate walking/biking to work as exercise.

 

[tara]

LOL, I guess i love butter more than you do. I confess I hold myself back from eating spoonfuls. :) I don't usually feel good the next day if I've overdone it.
I'm still having trouble with milk (protein, I suspect), and keep trying different things to see what I can get away with.

Unfortunately, walking or biking to work regularly would be a massive jump in regular exercise for me, this last year or two.

I'm certainly not going to try to persuade you to change what you are doing, since it seems to be working for you. I do believe that what works best for different people can vary.
Peat does recommend eating a little fat with meals, to aid digestion and absorption of nutrients, and to slow the absorption on sugars. On the other hand, I've never heard him propose that people use whole milk in order to keep blood sugars stable. Doesn't he more often just suggest sipping OJ or milk or sth more frequently? Do you see yourself as in disagreement with Peat on this, or do you think I've misinterpreted him?

I seems adrenaline is sometimes involved in releasing liver glycogen, but is not the only thing. Maybe it only comes into play if there is a sudden drop in blood sugar levels, rather than just needing constant gradual replenishment? Can anyone explain how this works?