How Do You Restrict Methionine?

Encai

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Nov 19, 2020
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I'm (26M, 190lbs, 6ft1, weight-trained) interested in trying out MRD and have a question how you guys would restrict methionine.

I'm eating about 300-400g of carbs from mainly fruit, juice, milk products, chocolate and some occasional grain (oats, sometimes pasta, have to eat some normal stuff with my SO too),
Protein is around 120-170g from eggs, dairy (milk, quark, cheese, protein blend of whey and casein), 10g of glycine and fish/meat (sometimes liver) every 2 days.
Fat is between 70g from dairy, coconut oil, chocolate or olive oil.

I generally don't eat that much meat, but I don't know how I could restrict my influx of methionine more. I can lower meat intake, excluding the weekly or biweekly liver. Apart from that, lets say i got 120g of protein from milk (~2.4% M) and Egg (~2% M) and 30g from gelatine, i get around 3g of methionine, which is still around double of my recommended minimal intake (15mg/kg/day).

How would you guys proceed?
 

tankasnowgod

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Jan 25, 2014
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I'm (26M, 190lbs, 6ft1, weight-trained) interested in trying out MRD and have a question how you guys would restrict methionine.

I'm eating about 300-400g of carbs from mainly fruit, juice, milk products, chocolate and some occasional grain (oats, sometimes pasta, have to eat some normal stuff with my SO too),
Protein is around 120-170g from eggs, dairy (milk, quark, cheese, protein blend of whey and casein), 10g of glycine and fish/meat (sometimes liver) every 2 days.
Fat is between 70g from dairy, coconut oil, chocolate or olive oil.

I generally don't eat that much meat, but I don't know how I could restrict my influx of methionine more. I can lower meat intake, excluding the weekly or biweekly liver. Apart from that, lets say i got 120g of protein from milk (~2.4% M) and Egg (~2% M) and 30g from gelatine, i get around 3g of methionine, which is still around double of my recommended minimal intake (15mg/kg/day).

How would you guys proceed?

The simplest way would probably be to ditch the whey protein for a blend of casein and gelatin/collagen protein. Not only does this lower Methionine, but Tryptophan, too. High glycine helps to rid excess methionine from the body, Niacinamide is supposed to do the same thing. So, you are probably on this right track with what you're doing.

Protein restriction or outright caloric restriction can restrict methionine, but there are serious negatives that go along with either approach. Upping gelatin and/or glycine is easier, and probably more beneficial.

You also might be able to swap out some of your protein from the Modified MAP Amino Profile Haidut wrote about a while ago-

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

There's the Impower supplement based on this, or you can make your own. I have all the listed aminos from that protocol, and usually make my own 10g supplement once or twice a day.
 

DennisX

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I mean, when you are too lazy to look up the amino acid breakdown that's printed on most collagen bottles.......
You will also notice from the table from @homo above that Leucine is substantially reduced in collagen. Leucine is the main muscle building amino acid.
 

DrJ

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Jun 16, 2015
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You also recommend Casein. If you're young prostate cancer is not problem but if you are older than:
A milk protein, casein, as a proliferation promoting factor in prostate cancer cells
A milk protein, casein, as a proliferation promoting factor in prostate cancer cells - PubMed

That's an ex vivo study on cell lines. Pretty much meaningless. How exactly does casein escape the digestion and reach prostate cells intact? Or does the author think people rub casein powder on their chode? Lmao

I think casein is a good way to restrict methionine and still get plenty of protein.
 

tankasnowgod

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You also recommend Casein. If you're young prostate cancer is not problem but if you are older than:
A milk protein, casein, as a proliferation promoting factor in prostate cancer cells
A milk protein, casein, as a proliferation promoting factor in prostate cancer cells - PubMed

Not worried about a single in vitro experiment. But to be on the safe side, I suggest not dumping casein powder on directly on your prostate.

You will also notice from the table from @homo above that Leucine is substantially reduced in collagen. Leucine is the main muscle building amino acid.

So what? I didn't suggest eating only gelatin. I very clearly said "BLEND OF casein and gelatin/collagen"

I also suggested Modified MAP, which features Leucine as the most prominent amino acid.
 

DennisX

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That's an ex vivo study on cell lines. Pretty much meaningless. How exactly does casein escape the digestion and reach prostate cells intact? Or does the author think people rub casein powder on their chode? Lmao

I think casein is a good way to restrict methionine and still get plenty of protein.
So you are worried that methionine causes cancer but not casein which has more methionine than beef or whey as shown in the spreadsheet above presented by @homo
 

tankasnowgod

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The easiest way is to go vegan.

Soy protein still has a lot of methionine. Brazil nuts have a lot, as do other beans and seeds. Vegans can still get lots of methionine while causing other problems, so this isn't the "easiest way" at all.
 

DrJ

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So you are worried that methionine causes cancer but not casein which has more methionine than beef or whey as shown in the spreadsheet above presented by @homo

Yeah, it's not clear where those data come from or what the units are. But if I take 30g of "Naked" casein it's 0.7g of methionine for 30g of protein (from the label). If I take, say, beef skirt steak and eat 85g which gives 24g of protein, I get 0.77g methionine per 24g of protein or 0.96g methionine per 30g protein (see Nutrition Facts for Skirt Steak). So about 30% less methionine per g of protein from casein than beef.
 

dukesbobby777

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Sep 22, 2020
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Soy protein still has a lot of methionine. Brazil nuts have a lot, as do other beans and seeds. Vegans can still get lots of methionine while causing other problems, so this isn't the "easiest way" at all.

Peat has spoken about the initial benefits of veganism possibly being down to the reduced intake of inflammatory aminos. Some reporting feelings of elation. Vegans don’t just eat Brazil nuts and soy. You can bulk the calories up with many sources low in the inflammatory AAs. And many do, filling their bellies with starches, vegetables and fruits.

Whereas the people who frequent this forum, who believe that eating enough ’high quality protein’ is important, bring up issues like the one the OP has thought about. Whether it’s milk, cheese, meat or seafood (or whatever folk here base their diet around), the restriction of methionine is relevant when the diet is based around those things.

I don’t believe in veganism (nor do I eat that way). It’s just most likely easier to restrict the bad AAs on that diet.
 

Encai

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Thread starter
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Nov 19, 2020
Messages
25
The simplest way would probably be to ditch the whey protein for a blend of casein and gelatin/collagen protein. Not only does this lower Methionine, but Tryptophan, too. High glycine helps to rid excess methionine from the body, Niacinamide is supposed to do the same thing. So, you are probably on this right track with what you're doing.

Protein restriction or outright caloric restriction can restrict methionine, but there are serious negatives that go along with either approach. Upping gelatin and/or glycine is easier, and probably more beneficial.

You also might be able to swap out some of your protein from the Modified MAP Amino Profile Haidut wrote about a while ago-

Amino Acid Supplementation For People With Poor Digestion

There's the Impower supplement based on this, or you can make your own. I have all the listed aminos from that protocol, and usually make my own 10g supplement once or twice a day.

Actually, it seems to me that if you only look at the methionine content, whey would be lower. Of course, if you take cysteine and tryptophan into account, it looks different.
 

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