How much protein do you guys eat?

[dd99]

Taylor108, here are three comments by pboy I saved.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3904&p=46903

from my experience, whole milk doesn't cause weight gain. The only time fat ever causes me to feel full or heavy, which I suspect over time is what causes people to slowly gain weight, is when I eat too many free oils that are not micellated and are choline deficient. Ive researched a lot on digestion, physiology, and have compared everything to personal experience, and then have purposely tried things and seen what happened. Most studies showing people having enough choline, and fats that are preemulsifed, are easier for the person to move and utilize both from the gut but also from the liver or adipose into the cells, even if the fat was created by carbohydrate to fat synthesis...which is why it even helps alcoholics. On top of that, you couldn't drink enough milk because of the fluid volume before getting full and couldn't get fat as a result. I cant guarantee you something 100% and therefore decide what you should or shouldn't buy, but can only offer experience and knowledge based on my experience and research and sort of give insight that can allow you to maybe put something to the test on yourself. I highly doubt one could get fat from whole milk without extra added fats, and in my case it would require intended personal discomfort

Im saying milkfat can be utilized when emulsified in milk because it has choline and is preemulsified, where as extracted fats, even butter, are not preemulsified and don't have choline attatched so they are more difficult and slower for the body to move and utilize. Whole milk would be highly unlikely to cause weight gain whereas butter or isolated fats could be overdone easier

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=4574&start=60

yea you gotta be careful with adding too much free fat, even butter. It digest better with protein or better a complete meal...but ive found that just relying on preemulsified fat in food is much more gentle, doesn't put that pressure on liver area. Things like whole milk, egg yolk, are pre emulsified..these have choline in them appropriate or abundant to the fat content. Adding even a teaspoon of free fat, I feel the difference...so I think theres a lot to this. If I put a tsp free fat on a cooked potato for example, I don't notice it as much...but in excess of that or in a drink, or by the spoon, I feel it.

The gall bladder area where bile squirts on the food is really small, like an inch or two long, so if you eat a fatty meal or too much fat, even 10grams or so sometimes that isn't preemulsified already, it slows down gastric release quite a bit, and causes the gallbladder to have to go into rapid bile synthesis mode. If the fat is like in milk, already emulsified and fluid, the gallbladder doesn't really have to do anything. I don't think it even triggers fat sensors that much, cause gastric emptying is just as fast...unless you consumed a pint straight or something

 

[pboy]

well I don't wanna give recommendations exactly...I like that quote in 4peatsake comment line by Peat

The attempt to steer a person can make it hard for them to move, because it inactivates their own guidance system. - Ray Peat

I will change my diet based on cues and other stuff im noticing, but ive gotten it pretty narrowed down, and usually ill adjust ratios or tonicity. The foods I cycle through are dairy(whole milk), tubers, melons, cane sugar, and some teas and cocoa...mostly green tea and yerba mate, I don't like the fact coffee taste burnt so I don't drink it anymore. Its pretty simple the choices I guess, but it suits my lifestyle...and im more dedicated to my own conscious growth than worried about having a limited diet or what people might say or places I no longer care to go to

Ive found through just a lot of experience that added fats tend to slow down digestion, and even sometimes cause a heavy or painful feeling in liver/gallbladder area. Its not that I don't think I could handle a tsp (4-5 grams) of butter or something on occasion, but ive just realized to be optimum and never risk any kind of gastric slow down or upset, its better to just not add fat. But the fat in whole milk seems to be a unique case because its emulsified, fluid, has all the properties to be transported around the body, and doesn't require bile to digest (it appears that way). Ill often drink 12oz plus of milk at a time, and I never feel like ive eaten fat...that's like 12g of fat, yet if I add even 4-5grams of fat of butter to something I notice it. I think its the milk proteins that actually emulsify the fat

However, it might just be that im sensitive to fat for one reason or another due to past recent diet choices, so you always just have to use your intuition and senses, feeling

and as for vit E and K, I don't know...I think the RDA is way inflated and even 20% of each daily (on a low PUFA diet) is enough. Even if I scrape myself or something the blood always coagulates immediately, so I don't think I have a K issue, bones are fine also

 

[taylor108]

Thank you for the links dd99!

pboy-would you say you try to follow a diet that optimizes energy and digestion, then? Would you say it is mostly liquid?
I am wondering because I have found myself drifting more and more towards mostly liquid days-coffee milk, OJ with milk and sugar, and cocoa. Energy and digestion are good but someone on another thread said that too much liquid can cause hypothyroidism. What are your thoughts?

 

[pboy]

yea definitely, optimizing digestion usually is what leads to optimizing energy. Too much liquid only causes problems if its hypotonic, meaning...theres no grip in it from solutes...like plain water, or plain coffee, or something like that, if you overdid it. If its liquid but full, like milk or OJ, its fine cause they are at minimum isotonic (neutral)

 

[tca300]

I don't feel right if I don't get at least 743 Grams per day, paired with 1515 mg of caffeine from my daily Gallon of coffee.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I don't feel right if I don't get at least 743 Grams per day, paired with 1515 mg of caffeine from my daily Gallon of coffee.

I take baths in ground beef and gelatin. Works well.

 

[tca300]

I don't feel right if I don't get at least 743 Grams per day, paired with 1515 mg of caffeine from my daily Gallon of coffee.

I take baths in ground beef and gelatin. Works well.

Very good idea!!! I knew I was on to something when I felt and instant jump in Testosterone while wearing underwear I fashioned out of cow skin and steak strips.

 

[championmath]

Probably ~150 g daily

 

[tca300]

In all seriousness about 180 grams per day total including fruits etc..

 

[superhuman]

In all seriousness about 180 grams per day total including fruits etc..

whats your stats and activity level? how much of the protein is from the more protein source rich foods(animal based etc) have you tried going lower or higher? what effects did that have? how much carbs or carb to protein ratio do you usually do?

 

[tca300]

I'm Five foot nine, and weigh 160 lbs, 8-9% bodyfat. I walk as much as possible 3-12 miles per day, and lift weights ( heavy ) about 2-3 times per week. I use to eat mostly potatoes but before that for over a year and now again for the past few months I eat about 24 oz ( Raw not cooked weight ) of grass fed organic beef, and maybe a few eggs, plus quite a bit of gelatin. If I go below 120 grams of COMPLETE animal protein ( not including gelatin ) I feel like i'm gonna die, I feel weak, have no patience, temp drops a bunch, and my muscles start to tear very easily.
I never really go much higher than that, I don't need to, So i've never tried, I just know for me personally if I don't get enough all hell breaks loose.
I eat as many carbs as I can, usually between 400-900 grams per day mostly Orange Juice/sugar in coffee, sometimes potatoes and or white rice. So no ratio really, I just make sure I get my 24 oz of beef/gelatin and stuff the carbs down..

 

[marcar72]

Ray Peat seems to think protein as 25% of daily caloric intake a good rule of thumb.

"Four ounces of meat contains about 25 grams of protein, so having that three times a day would meet the basic (low) requirement. A quart of milk contains 33 grams of protein, so 3 quarts a day would be close to the optimal amount of protein. A dozen eggs per day would do it, but this would provide too much PUFA (omega-3 and -6 fats).
For the average slightly hypothyroid person, I've seen very sick people suddenly get well when they increased their protein to 70 grams, but it isn't the amount I recommend for good sustained health.

Muscle meats and liver contain too much tryptophan for an adult if those are the main protein source, and will contribute to hypothyroidism, etc., but when the metabolic rate is optimal, most adults who aren't completely sedentary probably should have around 130 to 150 grams. If their calorie consumption is around 3000 kcal per day, that's about 25% of the calories as protein. Great Lakes Gelatin (cooked collagen), a prothyroid protein is recommended to balance the anti-thyroid amino acids in muscle meats."

Taken from the link I provided earlier in this thread...

http://www.litalee.com/shopexd.asp?id=402

 

[koganmj]

pboy, how do you feel about cream?

 

[pboy]

its nutritious but slow or even difficult to digest, or at least it slows down GI emptying unless you eat it with something like a potato or maybe fruit or something with bulk and a hint protein and choline. A little is fine, but just like in coffee or something ill feel it and don't think its ideal...again tho, this could just be me. The best thing is to experiment consciously. I don't think it would cause weight gain however, it might just slow down peristalsis and GI emptying, or even cause upset feelings if you overdo it or eat it without something that can actually move it along. Cause you gotta keep in mind...like put some cream in a glass jar with water, or melted butter or something...and youll see that water alone wont get it all out....the water sort of just beads off the fat. Same thing if on your skin. So its like that in the stomach initially too, and its mostly just an aqueous environment, there isn't really any emulsifying action at all. I think that's why fat produces heavy feeling and sometimes even kills appetite or compels a sit down or lay down. If theres some bulk with it it can help soak and move along the fat, if its just a little. Milk proteins (and probably egg yolk) seem to be able to emulsify fat really well and keep it all in fluid, which is why I just prefer whole milk

 

[tomisonbottom]

now days about 85 grams...the thing is, its dependent (the requirement) on how many carbs you eat, best to have it so you maintain within the ideal ratio of 1:4 - 1:6 protein to carb. And the total then is just however much calories you need with the right ratio...considering fat calories too. If I get too off in the ratio to carbs I notice a less up feeling, it took me years to master this...coming also ^ from vegan background. Its not just the amount of protein total you need, or protein to calorie ratio, its mostly protein to carbs, and that related to total energy needs. If you go above a 1:6 ratio, its likely some of the protein will go to energy metabolism or be converted into glucose for some other purpose. However it could be slightly beneficial to go up to 1:4 if you were looking for a slight diuretic property of the generated uric acid, but higher than that ratio is generally bad for the metabolism overall, or just not efficient rather

I've never heard this before. I thought it was supposed to be a two to one ratio!
Does Peat suggest 6:1?

 

[Sea]

125-175 grams mainly from greek yogurt, cottage cheese, and some gelatin.

 

[marcar72]

now days about 85 grams...the thing is, its dependent (the requirement) on how many carbs you eat, best to have it so you maintain within the ideal ratio of 1:4 - 1:6 protein to carb. And the total then is just however much calories you need with the right ratio...considering fat calories too. If I get too off in the ratio to carbs I notice a less up feeling, it took me years to master this...coming also ^ from vegan background. Its not just the amount of protein total you need, or protein to calorie ratio, its mostly protein to carbs, and that related to total energy needs. If you go above a 1:6 ratio, its likely some of the protein will go to energy metabolism or be converted into glucose for some other purpose. However it could be slightly beneficial to go up to 1:4 if you were looking for a slight diuretic property of the generated uric acid, but higher than that ratio is generally bad for the metabolism overall, or just not efficient rather

I've never heard this before. I thought it was supposed to be a two to one ratio!
Does Peat suggest 6:1?

Good observation! Peat does suggest a 2:1 carb/protein ratio. I'm not sure where pboy comes up with his info. Personal experience I would guess... :2cents

 

[pboy]

im fairly certain peat has never said a 2:1 ratio. Now I know from experience, but also that's the ratio of breast milk which is clearly meant to be optimal for metabolism of a human, and the baby can grow rapidly on it. I don't know if you guys realize how ridiculous a 2:1 ratio is. Peat said it takes nearly a quart of OJ to properly balance 1 large egg

 

[superhuman]

RP has said a MINIMUM 2:1 ratio so for people that want to loose fat and stuff that is the ratio you use. I cant believe people dont ******* listen to what the brilliant man says or just think you know what he says.

 

[jyb]

Peat said it takes nearly a quart of OJ to properly balance 1 large egg

I'm not sure if he intended that for everyone or if he just meant you need to eat sufficiently with that egg in an amount which depends on you. I'm also not sure what would be worse if I had to drink 2 quarts of OJ just after eating a small snack of 2 eggs: the price and time it takes to make that orange juice just for 1 snack, or the effect on my metabolism.