How much protein do you guys eat?

taylor108

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I am just wondering what everyone's daily protein intake averages to be because I have consistently been getting pretty low protein count on cronometer...usually under 50 g. I don't eat meat and eggs every day and have been content with just fruit and dairy, but I kind of worry about protein being that low. I try to eat a couple eggs a week and smoked oysters once or twice, but I'm not very consistent with it.

What do you guys think? Is it even worth worrying about, or should I definitely try to get more protein in? FWIW-I'm not trying to build muscle here or anything, and am looking to lose a little fluff. Maybe even lose a little leg muscle because I bulk up there quick and don't really care for it.
 

marcar72

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One of the two hard rules I've come to know about Peating is getting atleast 80 g of protein/day. The other is avoid all PUFA as reasonably as possible.

80 g of protein/day is required so that your liver has what it needs to do it's job efficiently. You cheat your liver of it's required protein and everything else you may or may not be trying is pretty much a lost cause... :2cents
 

lindsay

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Personally, I think protein intake is very individual. Ray Peat says 80 grams, which is great, but for what size person? An average size male? I am smaller than an average size male and so do I really need 80 grams? I usually feel good around 60, which is hard for me to even reach - I was previously a vegetarian/vegan who ate very little protein, which was very bad, but WAY less than what I eat now. And for a female, I also gain muscle very quickly, which I hate. As a rule of thumb, I try to follow my cravings. Usually they lead me to what I need. And it's really hard to get adequate protein when so much protein is inflammatory in it's nature. I usually gravitate to hard cheeses (which are also good sources of K2), eggs, sometimes yogurt, and seafood - milk and I really only get along in my coffee or a custard. I LOVE shellfish, which I feel is more well balanced, since you eat the whole creature. Oysters are especially fantastic in their nutritional profile, but a good serving of scallops are a better source of glycine than lamb shank or beef shank, so..... I occasionally eat ham or beef too, but I don't crave anything as much as cheese these days. And occasionally, potatoes too.
 

pboy

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now days about 85 grams...the thing is, its dependent (the requirement) on how many carbs you eat, best to have it so you maintain within the ideal ratio of 1:4 - 1:6 protein to carb. And the total then is just however much calories you need with the right ratio...considering fat calories too. I consume about 2700-2800 calories a day, and that amount protein is about right at what I need, to have full metabolism. If I get too off in the ratio to carbs I notice a less up feeling, it took me years to master this...coming also ^ from vegan background. Its not just the amount of protein total you need, or protein to calorie ratio, its mostly protein to carbs, and that related to total energy needs. If you go above a 1:6 ratio, its likely some of the protein will go to energy metabolism or be converted into glucose for some other purpose. However it could be slightly beneficial to go up to 1:4 if you were looking for a slight diuretic property of the generated uric acid, but higher than that ratio is generally bad for the metabolism overall, or just not efficient rather
 

marcar72

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I eat roughly 100 - 150 g of protein/day, sometimes more. It's probably 125 - 175 g of protein/day actually, sometimes more...
 

arinryan

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lindsay said:
for a female, I also gain muscle very quickly, which I hate.

I used to be just like this! 10 years ago. Now I kind of miss it :roll: Its easy to take for granted...

I wish now I had a bit more tolerance for un-fun exercise (anything other than rollerblading and skiing). after too long being hypothyroid, I could use the muscle.
 
OP
T

taylor108

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Thank you for your advice, everyone!

I agree, lindsay-I gain muscle quickly and don't especially care for that. I'm also a smaller female so I feel that I can get away with eating a little less protein.

Lately my protein intake has dropped because I was using Knox gelatin but stopped because it isn't a good source. So, I think I will try to eat smoked oysters a couple more times a week and maybe eat some more hard cheese, I eat hardly any cheese right now. Any suggestions for good types/brands?
On a slightly unrelated note, the smoked oysters I buy only have water and salt as additional ingredients, but there is a couple grams of PUFAs listed on the label. Should I be worried about this, or is it just part of the fish and negligible?
 

marcar72

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taylor108 said:
Lately my protein intake has dropped because I was using Knox gelatin but stopped because it isn't a good source.

What do you mean that Knox gelatine isn't a good source? Because it's porcine??
 

dukez07

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marcar72 said:
I eat roughly 100 - 150 g of protein/day, sometimes more. It's probably 125 - 175 g of protein/day actually, sometimes more...

The only way somebody can comfortably get this much protein is by eating a lot of meat, or using protein powders. You certainly won't get there by using milk alone. 150g, is 4/5 quarts. 180g of protein is three blocks of 200g cheese. It's a very high amount. If going that high is such a difficulty, perhaps we shouldn't be going so high with it?
 

Curt :-)

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Do you guys pretty much only use milk and cheese as protein sources? I really struggle to put away enough protein everyday; just don't have the appetite for it.
 

pboy

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taylor108 said:
Thank you for your advice, everyone!

I agree, lindsay-I gain muscle quickly and don't especially care for that. I'm also a smaller female so I feel that I can get away with eating a little less protein.

Lately my protein intake has dropped because I was using Knox gelatin but stopped because it isn't a good source. So, I think I will try to eat smoked oysters a couple more times a week and maybe eat some more hard cheese, I eat hardly any cheese right now. Any suggestions for good types/brands?
On a slightly unrelated note, the smoked oysters I buy only have water and salt as additional ingredients, but there is a couple grams of PUFAs listed on the label. Should I be worried about this, or is it just part of the fish and negligible?

pretty negligible if its not a lot every day. Being that you are a smaller female, your calorie requirement may be about 3/4 of mine im guessing, so youd probably be ok around 60-65 grams protein...if you have the time and energy just see how your overall protein to carbohydrate (minus fiber) adds up. The best ratio for protein is 1gram to every 4-6 grams carbohydrate. 1gram protein to 6grams carbs is most ideal, and probably easier for you to do. And btw, leg muscles aren't bad! (unless theyre like...bulging) even gymnast girls have pretty muscular legs but it doesn't look bad at all
 

lindsay

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taylor108 said:
Thank you for your advice, everyone!

I agree, lindsay-I gain muscle quickly and don't especially care for that. I'm also a smaller female so I feel that I can get away with eating a little less protein.

Lately my protein intake has dropped because I was using Knox gelatin but stopped because it isn't a good source. So, I think I will try to eat smoked oysters a couple more times a week and maybe eat some more hard cheese, I eat hardly any cheese right now. Any suggestions for good types/brands?
On a slightly unrelated note, the smoked oysters I buy only have water and salt as additional ingredients, but there is a couple grams of PUFAs listed on the label. Should I be worried about this, or is it just part of the fish and negligible?

I know the gaining muscle thing is suppose to be good (RP always advocates the massive muscle), but it's very uncomfortable and unnatural for me as a female - I can totally relate. And as I said, eating inflammatory proteins never made me feel good. I did well with gelatin, but the way I tolerated it best was in my own homemade broth - I've gotten lazy with cooking, but plan to make a good soup in the future. Fish head soup is one of the ones I want to try because of the thyroid component. But I did use Great Lakes gelatin for awhile and did fine with it - the Bovine stuff. Knox gave me HORRIBLE digestive upset once and I wouldn't touch it after that.

Regarding oysters, they do have some PUFA, yes, but their nutritional profile (IMO) far outweighs their PUFA content. Do you live East or West coast? I live in Connecticut and there is actually an oyster bar down the road - they have $1 oyster Mondays and I plan to take advantage of them every week because that's super cheap for raw oysters. I like the idea of raw oysters because then the PUFA isn't oxidized at all. But I wouldn't let that stop me from eating cooked oysters. Other good protein options are scallops and shrimp and clams (all of which have very little fat). Clams are usually quite cheap. I made some the other day with tomato, garlic & white wine. 8 large clams has almost 40 grams of protein. Also, you could consider white fish like haddock - which is usually very lean and low fat. Or lobster. Honestly, because I grew up in Maine, I've always preferred fish (and especially shellfish) to ruminants. The selenium component is also important.

As for cheese, this is a strange recent love of mine. I mean, I've always loved cheese but shied away from it due to the fat content. But then I had surgery for appendicitis in September (after a good starch eating phase I went through) and I decided that I would let my body eat whatever I craved. I had no appetite for a couple of weeks, but when it came back, the only things I wanted to eat were hard cheese, mozzarella & tomato salads, and eggs. And custard became part of my mix. The woman at the hospital told me that I needed to be sure to get plenty of protein following my surgery and I just naturally gravitated to cheese and eggs. So far, I've done very well on them. Four oz. of cheese has like 32 grams of protein (and fat). I seem to like the combo of fat and protein and just make sure to get the carbs I need with it (usually juice and fruit). Lately, however, the shellfish cravings came back - they come regularly. Probably because of the selenium.
 

lindsay

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pboy said:
And btw, leg muscles aren't bad! (unless theyre like...bulging) even gymnast girls have pretty muscular legs but it doesn't look bad at all

Lol, pboy. Since I was a little girl, I have had extremely muscular legs. My doctor told my mom he'd never seen a 4 year old with such developed thigh muscles. The only way I can keep slender is on a vegetarian diet with very little protein and very few calories - then my muscles lean out, but of course that's not healthy. Even doing yoga makes me gain muscle very fast. So, I decided to just stick with walking, as I like to stay fitting into my clothing. However, I do think that part of the bulging muscle thing with females is due to muscle swelling - like, I went jogging (breathing through my nose) recently and my leg muscles hurt and were swollen for a few days. So I partially think it's a stress response, which means I probably shouldn't be trying to build that muscle until it stops responding that way. So, walking.
 

pboy

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good idea...im surprised even yoga makes a difference! It seems like a good practice nonetheless. Id think swelling does play a factor in muscle bulge, when I think about it though...ive almost never seen a girl with 'too big muscles' unless she was a bodybuilder or on T or steroids or something. I think that's how it is naturally, muscle built naturally almost always looks good...its only when people use hormones and steroids does it look gross. If there is swelling its mostly water weight which is probably a burden on the muscles cause they are having to move extra weight and sugar isn't getting to them as efficiently. As long as you don't make yourself sore its likely all good. Also, thighs are where the majority of stem cells are produced, its usually a sign of good genetic expression and good nourishment in the womb if youre born with stronger thighs
 

marcar72

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dukez07 said:
marcar72 said:
I eat roughly 100 - 150 g of protein/day, sometimes more. It's probably 125 - 175 g of protein/day actually, sometimes more...

The only way somebody can comfortably get this much protein is by eating a lot of meat, or using protein powders. You certainly won't get there by using milk alone. 150g, is 4/5 quarts. 180g of protein is three blocks of 200g cheese. It's a very high amount. If going that high is such a difficulty, perhaps we shouldn't be going so high with it?

I hit the upper end on days where I have 3 quarts of milk and Hamburger Hash with roughly 1/2 pound of hamburger. It's not that difficult to do really. I've been adding some gelatin to the Hamburger Hash here lately, too. Ray Peat has eaten this much protein daily before, not sure if he still does though.

Currently my job involves walking throughout my entire 8 hour shift dust mopping floors and running an auto-scrubber on them. So I feel I can use all the protein I consume. If it was causing me any trouble, well then I wouldn't be consuming that much.

Who's this "we" you speak of? You got a mouse in your pocket? :lol:
 

pboy

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150 grams is overkill, and some will certainly be turned into sugar anyways, unless you are eating like a 5000 calorie diet and are a 200 pound man with all muscle to be that heavy
 

lindsay

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pboy said:
good idea...im surprised even yoga makes a difference! It seems like a good practice nonetheless. Id think swelling does play a factor in muscle bulge, when I think about it though...ive almost never seen a girl with 'too big muscles' unless she was a bodybuilder or on T or steroids or something. I think that's how it is naturally, muscle built naturally almost always looks good...its only when people use hormones and steroids does it look gross. If there is swelling its mostly water weight which is probably a burden on the muscles cause they are having to move extra weight and sugar isn't getting to them as efficiently. As long as you don't make yourself sore its likely all good. Also, thighs are where the majority of stem cells are produced, its usually a sign of good genetic expression and good nourishment in the womb if youre born with stronger thighs

Good to keep in mind :) Yeah - yoga is a huge muscle building practice if you follow a program involving warrior and high lunge/low lunge poses. I really love yoga, but I just started doing it again post-surgery and my knees have been hurting (another sign of inflammation). I eat sugar to craving, so I'm not sure why this happens (muscle soreness & knee pain). I'm guessing my stress hormones are still a little elevated from surgery because I haven't experienced knee pain in years.
 

superhuman

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pboy said:
now days about 85 grams...the thing is, its dependent (the requirement) on how many carbs you eat, best to have it so you maintain within the ideal ratio of 1:4 - 1:6 protein to carb. And the total then is just however much calories you need with the right ratio...considering fat calories too. I consume about 2700-2800 calories a day, and that amount protein is about right at what I need, to have full metabolism. If I get too off in the ratio to carbs I notice a less up feeling, it took me years to master this...coming also ^ from vegan background. Its not just the amount of protein total you need, or protein to calorie ratio, its mostly protein to carbs, and that related to total energy needs. If you go above a 1:6 ratio, its likely some of the protein will go to energy metabolism or be converted into glucose for some other purpose. However it could be slightly beneficial to go up to 1:4 if you were looking for a slight diuretic property of the generated uric acid, but higher than that ratio is generally bad for the metabolism overall, or just not efficient rather

Hmm thats cool. I thought 2:1 carb:protein ratio was the minimum and aiming for at least 2:1 and up was idea. What have you noticed since you are saying 1:4 ratio and up ? When you say above you really mean down ? :p you say going up from 1:6 to 1:4 that is going down ? :p

Anyway could you tell me more about your experience with difference ratios of carbs to protein and why you think one should at least have 4:1 and up aka 5:1, 6:1+++ etc. Since RP and others say 2:1 is the minimum and acceptable?

Im 180 cm and 80kg male, and i exersice everyday with weights and stuff. I want to loose a little more fat so i can get really lean and athletic.
So then i need some amount of protein so i dont loose muscles, but how much ? 80-100g is RP talking about but he also mention that active people needs more. But say if i eat 120g protein and need 4x or more carbs that will be to many calories and i will not loose weight. So how do i fit this together then?
 

pboy

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1:6 to 1:4 is up...cause think like 17% to 25%, I know what you mean though it was trippin me out for a second writing it. You could get by with 1:2 ratio, but most of the protein will be turned into sugar and its kind of a waste of energy, when you could just use a carb. It sends your body a better signal. Also, don't go below 1:6 ratio, or youll be out of balance in the opposite way, and have blood sugar problems or mood lowering, I think it provokes serotonin when carbs are so high without enough protein. Its better and cleaner, youll probably be happier and more energetic if you change the ratio from 1:2 to more 1:4...- 1.6. If you know your calorie range, just adjust the protein down to match it. You wont suffer any consequences. Also, youll probably loose weight faster that way, because your body will me more likely to create immune, lubricating, and detox factors out of the carbohydrates
 

tara

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marcar72 said:
One of the two hard rules I've come to know about Peating is getting atleast 80 g of protein/day. The other is avoid all PUFA as reasonably as possible.

80 g of protein/day is required so that your liver has what it needs to do it's job efficiently. You cheat your liver of it's required protein and everything else you may or may not be trying is pretty much a lost cause... :2cents

This was my take too. I understood Peat to say 80-100 grams for hypothyroid folks, and likely more once the metabolism is up to normal. Ie 80 g minimum even for small sedentary adults, to meet the needs of the liver. He has said that at times he needed 150g himself to feel good. Don't know if he still does.

(Not from Peat:)
Just putting together an arbitrary combination of numbers that meet Peat's suggested protein requirement, pboy's suggested p:c ratio, and Gwyneth's suggested calorie ranges to meet the needs of the body without running an energy deficit:
100g protein + 400g carbs probably still leaves room for a bit of fat to meet the calorie needs of even small sedentary post-menopausal women.
150g protein + 600g carbs + 50g fat would be getting there for a healthy young active male.
I'm not recommending these ratios particularly - I think optimal probably varies from person to person and for the same person in different times/circumstances, and that we probably have a bit of flexibility with it, at least when we are reasonably well.

Lindsay said:
Since I was a little girl, I have had extremely muscular legs. My doctor told my mom he'd never seen a 4 year old with such developed thigh muscles.

Ray Peat said:
Hypothyroid muscles typically retain excess water, and fatigue easily, taking up more water than normal during exertion. In childhood, mild hypothyroidism often causes the leg muscles to swell and ache in the evenings, with what have been called "growing pains." When the problem is more extreme, all the skeletal muscles can become very large (Hoffman syndrome), because of the anabolic effect of over-hydration. Enlargement of any muscle can result from the excessive hydration produced by thyroid deficiency, but when it happens to the muscles behind the eyes (Itabashi, et al., 1988), it often leads to a diagnosis of hyperthyroidism, rather than hypothyroidism.

The little kids with the Hoffman syndrome don't have the bloated myxedematous appearance that's often associated with hypothyroidism. They look athletic to a ridiculous degree, like miniature body-builders. But after a few weeks of treatment with thyroid, they regain the slender appearance that's normal for their age. The swollen state actually supports enlargement of the muscle, and the cellular processes are probably closely related to the muscle swelling and growth produced by exercise. The growth of the muscle cell during swelling seems to be the result of normal repair processes, in a context of reduced turnover of cellular proteins.
 

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