Protein Sources (yep, That Question Again)

jyb

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Nstocks said:
Do you mean store bought orange juice instead of squeezing them myself? I get oranges at 10pence each which usually ends up being cheaper than store bought (unless it's on offer).

I've just found this: https://www.pinterest.com/milkmaplesiru ... ired-eats/ Some good ideas to get more dairy in!

Yes but it takes effort to make it too. I can tolerate making 1-2L daily, but that's insufficient energy so I need to complement. Commercial OJ is not necessarily bad, though far inferior to the fresh juice in my opinion. The more expensive commercial OJ is not necessarily better than the cheap from concentrate. There's hardly any dairy in those recipees, I would need to be cooking all day long to get any significant amount of dairy from those - why not just open the fridge and eat a block of cheese?
 
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Nstocks

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aquaman said:
Nstocks said:
Do you mean store bought orange juice instead of squeezing them myself? I get oranges at 10pence each which usually ends up being cheaper than store bought (unless it's on offer).

I've just found this: https://www.pinterest.com/milkmaplesiru ... ired-eats/ Some good ideas to get more dairy in!

Where do you get 10p oranges in England??

Check Aldi and Lidl because they sometimes have offers with 6-7 oranges for 69pence! Morrisons have just ended a promotion for 3 bags (6 in each bag) for £2. When the supermarkets don't have good promotions, I go to the wholesaler where I get 100 oranges for £11. It does take some effort to find a good deal, but when I do, I buy around 200 at a time and store them in the cold greenhouse.

Where did you get the rennet to make dairy products from? I'm looking at more ways to consume goat milk with fruit.
 

jyb

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Nstocks said:
Where did you get the rennet to make dairy products from? I'm looking at more ways to consume goat milk with fruit.

I buy cheese, though I get most of my dairy from milk. There are animal rennet cheese available in stores, just have to look for those that don't have a Vegetarian sign. There's always Parmesan. But if you're only looking at goat then I understand its a whole lot more tricky...
 
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Nstocks

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I've been reading about coffee and how good it can be for the thyroid, and having drunk only a few sips in my life, I think I'm going to give it a shot.

When, if any is the best time to drink coffee? I usually drink liquids (OJ) for the first 2-3 hours of my day (waking at 11am). How much sugar and gelatine is usually needed in addition to milk?

I've been constipated/bloated for days and have 'gained' 4 lbs in less than a week, eating less than 2,000 calories a day! Clearly something is wrong and the irritating thing is that 5 weeks ago I was mostly OK; 100% clear skin, no major digestive issues but still generally low energy. After 2 weeks of very stressful work I seem to have taken a huge step backwards, which I guess is normal for most people, but I'm young and work part time so it's like even a small period of stress completely messes me up!
 

aquaman

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I wouldn't recommend coffee. I don't think it's essential at all, and can have a negative affect on stress hormone production if you're Hypothyroid. Plus it encourages extra fluid consumption. I know coffee drops my temps and increases my heart rate, probably meaning adrenaline, so it isn't good for me.

I think the single biggest mistake everyone makes on this forum is consuming too many liquids, which brings me onto my next point: you need more calorie dense, solid foods in the morning. Also you need to mix fat, carbs and protein in all your meals. So if you're just drinking OJ then this wont' cut it. It won't help you get over Hypo, possibly make it worse.

Also, you need to get up earlier, and probably go to bed earlier. I had an email exchange with Rob at FunctionalPS a while ago who said this was essential for me, and I'm sleeping midnight-9am generally. I' trying to move to 10.30/10.45pm and awake by 7.45am. It's TOUGH!

You gotta be up earlier to get more light in your eyes early in the day (especially now spring is coming in UK), get more solid foods (read:calories) in before 9/10am, and shift your body clock. It won't be easy, and will feel bad for a bit, but it's essential. Set your alarm for 9am every day and get up and out, eat solid foods early with high calorie density.

Re:constipation, it's a way of conserving energy. Also it can be caused by any change in diet. Not necessarily meaning your diet is "bad' for you.

Stay away from laptops, movies, any blue light sources in the evenings. Do you watch TV/movies/read about Ray Peat online late at night? Get your body used to feeling sleepy by 9.30om, part of this comes from being awake earlier and turning off the stress hormones through diet early in the day. If you're only turning those stress hormones off at say 11am/midday, then you won't be sleepy until midnight-2am.
 
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Nstocks

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Interesting thoughts there.

I've always believed that 3+litres or liquid is way too much but I think part of the reason for getting calories through liquids is for easier digestion (in most cases). After almost one week on 1.6% fat goat milk (semi-skimmed) I feel like I'm digesting it quite well so I'll keep that up. I personally don't add salt/sugar to it but is that a problem?

I know that my sleep needs work which is directly related to my overall lifestyle of working only on weekends for the past year. (I graduated from Uni 2 years ago where I was always tired, very thin and looked very ill. Not normal for a 21 year old male at that time.. Yep - very strict Paleo diet with impotency.)

Other than lack of energy, one reason for not seeing much of the day, which I'm sure is understandable is that I have nothing to do all day, other than chores. I mean, I read about my hobbies and interests (design) and just recently started to read about Peat again (yes before bed too). I'm always asleep by 12.30pm and wake after 11am. It's funny, now that the sun is rising earlier in the morning, I bought a sleep mask so I'm not woken up by sunlight at 8am!

Food: It's going to be very, very hard to have anything earlier in the day, especially solid foods. What would you suggest I eat, assuming grapes and orange juice aren't dense enough for the AM.

Yep, I watch TV and eat (junk) before bed. It's just become a habit after university and I'm mildly depressed about my life right now. (it's taking a long time to get the job I want).

I've started tracking calories with my fitness pal... So far I've eaten 361 calories. (OJ, milk, grapes)
 

Filip1993

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If you tolerate coffee, drink it and be happy. If I drink coffee too late it messes up my sleep, I usually have a cup in the morning and one with lunch.
 

Filip1993

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Also, extra salt can be helpful if you're consuming a lot of liquids. But I agree with aquaman that too much liquids can make problems worse if your metabolism is very low.
 

jyb

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I disagree with some of aquaman's recommendation, but we each have a different experience. In my experience, it is always preferable to drink more (even if its a lot - but I never forget to supplement salt), rather than eat some solid but endotoxin causing food. When I eat starches, even well cooked, I often get "flu" like symptoms and feel brain fogged, meaning I can't cope with the endotoxin. With fluids, maybe I get to pee often but at least I digest it without any pain and feel satisfied.

Coffee should never be taken on empty stomach, or too much at once, otherwise you get stress symptoms which is due to adrenalin. For example I would never drink coffee in my first hour of waking up. Also note that you can do drip coffee home, as opposed to expressos/coffee made by applying pressure like those in restaurants, and drip coffee contains a lot less caffeine and a bit more nutrients. It might be that you can't handle an expresso, but you can handle drip coffee fine. I always have a bit of fat and sugar with coffee, for example a pint of milk and 5 sugar cubes, and that's only if I was well nourished to start with. Just having 2 sugar cubes in an expresso can be grossly insufficient.

In the UK it's dark in winter, hence the use of light therapy. I always have it shine on my before going to work and when I'm home after.

I was also very thin. Then I read about RP, I began eating a lot of protein, calcium, sugar, gelatin... which helped my body to grow in the first few weeks to an athletic shape (without exercising nor taking any supplements) which has remained stable ever since.
 

Filip1993

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@jyb Do you get "flu" like symptoms from whole fruits with fiber like dates? Or is it just starches?
 

jyb

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Filip1993 said:
@jyb Do you get "flu" like symptoms from whole fruits with fiber like dates? Or is it just starches?

I haven't eaten dates significantly, though I'm tempted to try. In theory some of the dates fibre could feed bacteria, just like orange fibre (I always strain the pulp). From the testimonials I've seen, some people get windy with dates, which indeed indicates bacterial fermentation. But I'd have to test it to see if its a problem.
 
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aquaman said:
you need more calorie dense, solid foods in the morning.

Peat mentioned that because blood is thicker in the morning, it's good to drink something.

I would warn people from taking the advice in aquaman's post. A lot of it seems wrong to me. You don't need solid foods in the morning. It's ok and beneficial to drink OJ even without fat at some moments. You don't have to mix fat, carbs, and proteins in every single meal.
 

Filip1993

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Haha yeah, I get a little windy with dates but they are so calorie dense. Do you get all your carbs from orange juice, milk and white sugar?
 

Mittir

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j. said:
aquaman said:
you need more calorie dense, solid foods in the morning.

Peat mentioned that because blood is thicker in the morning, it's good to drink something.

I would warn people from taking the advice in aquaman's post. A lot of it seems wrong to me. You don't need solid foods in the morning. It's ok and beneficial to drink OJ even without fat at some moments. You don't have to mix fat, carbs, and proteins in every single meal.

He also recommends OJ ( meaning most kind of fruit juices) or milk before bed.

Ray Peat said:
That’s because darkness is very stressful and cortisol protects against all the inflammatory stress processes that develop during the night. It is beneficial if you can keep cortisol and adrenaline levels lower by what you eat at bedtime or even snack on during the night, and also having fluid at night to help keep blood thin and circulating so you are less likely to have a stroke from the high cortisol and thickened blood when you wake up, which can be fairly dangerous. It’s good to start with OJ when you wake up to get the fluid and minerals in your blood and the cortisol down. If having trouble sleeping during the night, it’s best to have juice or sugared milk, tropical fruit, or chicken consumme with plenty of salt to lower adrenaline.
The high potassium in juice helps dispose of the sugars in OJ safely. OJ also has magnesium and calcium.
Source: http://oneradionetwork.com/health-artic ... ry-1-2014/
 

aquaman

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j. said:
aquaman said:
you need more calorie dense, solid foods in the morning.

Peat mentioned that because blood is thicker in the morning, it's good to drink something.

"something" is not the same as a quart of orange juice. I agree with using OJ in the morning, not a quart of it as your only source of calories before midday
 

aquaman

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These 3 quotes from Haidut match 100% to my situation. All from this thread: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=971&start=140

haidut said:
Btw, I have discovered that stomach issues can be controlled to a great degree by limiting liquid intake. When metabolism is not working properly, even small amount of extra liquid can bring really bad symptoms.

and

haidut said:
I found that at least for me, drinking liquids in the amounts I used to in my younger years brings about bowel noises, the feeling of shaking water in the gut, drop in temperature, confusion, eye floaters, etc.

and

haidut said:
P.S. I almost forgot - I try to eat foods that have as high as possible calories/weight ratio since this controls the amount of liquids I am consuming. I find that strained "Greek" yogurt, low fat icecream, cheese, eggs, meat, shrimp fit that ratio pretty well. If I eat gelatin I just take the powder and ingest with as little liquid as possible (but plenty of sugar). And make sure that you eat enough sugar with all the protein you ingest. Otherwise, cortisol rises pretty quickly and the feeling is just not good.
 
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Nstocks

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Would a good quality powdered milk be any good for a 'dry' source of protein?

I've found that ice cream causes weight gain as fat extremely fast. I've also realised that drinking so much liquid adds inches to my stomach and is very uncomfortable.

I'm probably going to drop all milk (apart from in coffee which I love to drink - 1 cup with honey, collagen, salt, cocoa). I will be using powdered egg shell for calcium but my protein is by far my biggest problem. I have no problems with collagen (Great lakes green tin) but it's very expensive for the amount I need. (£30 a tin!)

I also tried cottage cheese (including making my own) but it does not sit well with me. Ice cream is the only cow dairy product that I can tolerate.

I'm thinking some kind of protein bar or some other way to get in more protein in a dry form - milk powder seems the least harmful, in front of brown rice powder.

I've also started to exercise - intense workout I found on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOPJhZKa40g). After just 10 minutes of this, my entire body aches for 3 days and I was warm for once! I think exercise is crucial for me now... just need to be consistent.
 

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