Protein Sources (yep, That Question Again)

[Nstocks]

Hello,

I've been following the peat approach for around 8 months now (having been strict Paleo for two years) but there are a few bumps in the road, this is mostly low protein.

I'm a lean guy, 6'2" 160lbs (15lbs heavier than when I was paleo) and do very little physical activity so my protein intake doesn't need to be 'high'.

I tracked the food I ate today (including a chicken breast) and my total protein is 50g which is very low for anyone, let along a young guy like me. (I think!)

I used to consume large quantities of goat milk when I adopted Peat style eating, but eventually gave it up because of poor digestion and bloating. I'm starting to re-introduce it back into my diet because I know I need it. (fresh goat milk, 2% fat).

I've also had a long history of acne and still get some breakouts and find that too much dairy can cause breakouts. (I supplement with Vit A and red light therapy)

For the short term (whilst I adapt to milk) where else could I get protein from? I eat oysters and chicken breast a few times a week and red meat perhaps once or twice a month but my protein is very low. I also tried both types of Great Lakes gelatine but find those incredibly hard to digest, even with sugar (gummy bears), and they are extremely expensive in the UK.

I've attached an image of today's nutritional data (I know it's not very useful without context, but it might help).

I'd appreciate any ideas and can of course add a lot more information if needed.

 

[Stilgar]

Cooked potato juice? You might get a taste for it. Potatoes are cheap here.
I add protein powders because I can't hit the protein level consistently (I am vegetarian, mostly dairy free peating - an oxymoron? so I am literally up sh*t creek without them) and feel much better using them than lacking the protein. I use rice protein, but you could try whey etc.
I know Peat disagrees, oxidising issues, but it is a matter of priority and making a rational cost/benefit decision on such things.

 

[north]

I had/have a similar experience. Used to drink tons of milk for protein but ended up to much liquid, poor digestion, bloated. I found switching to cottage cheese and increase meat makes me feel a lot better. Still drink milk for calcium/phosphorus ratio but less than before. Now I get 1-1,5L or so per day.

And yeah 50g is way to low. If u get 1L milk, 500g cottage cheese and 200-250 g meat/seafood and a little gelatin (if you can) you could easily get 140ish. I mix cottage cheese with fruit flavor lemonade concentrate. Its just sugars and natural berries or mix it with cut up fruits and honey.

The gelatin, I find it easiest to digest when mixed in coffee so it's totally melted and liquid.

 

[Nstocks]

I've come across potato juice (and powder) but I think it's something that requires mixing (like whey) and I don't want to use water (or fruit juice because it will taste gross). Whey can also cause acne which I'm avoiding! What do you mix rice protein with? Is it easy to digest? I've baked with rice flour and it made me feel as bad as gluten junk did.

Another option would be to make rice pudding but most grains bloat me and rice pudding needs milk which I'm not yet adapted to. (I can get dried sheep milk if anyone knows if that would be any good)

You're right; there are only so many elements of diet/lifestyle that can work well, and right now, protein is one that I need to address (cheaply)

---

I use to drink up to two litres of pasteurised and raw goat milk (way too expensive to do that now) and tried to ignore how I felt. (also listening to Matt stone). It just got too much for my s***** digestion and ended up not eating enough calories.

That cottage cheese sounds tasty (and easy to get in carbs which are needed with dairy)... I just can't stomach any cow's milk product.

I've been ignoring my protein for months and on the days I don't eat chicken, I probably only get 20grams!

 

[jyb]

20 grams?! Why not eat some steak, shrimp, eggs and supplementing calcium (from powdered eggshell)? While muscle meat is not perfect, the calcium/phosphorus can be corrected with suppl. calcium, the iron can be reduced with coffee, and the protein profile can be corrected with a bit of gelatin.

 

[Nstocks]

I'm going to try and eat meat (ground beef, organic grassed in the freezer) once a week, probably shepherds pie.

I eat a couple of eggs once a week but they seem to bloat me too. I use this amazing recipe: http://www.barefeetinthekitchen.com/201 ... ecipe.html

Could you explain the egg shell and calcium idea? There's virtually no protein in egg shells, but is the calcium for better absorption of other minerals etc?

 

[jyb]

Calcium is pretty crucial for a high metabolism, according to RP. So if you don't do dairy... Taking the powdered eggshell (search this forum or google for how to make it) with the meat would also make the calcium/phosphorus ratio higher, which is also important according to RP. Maybe it would also reduce iron absorption, I'm not sure, but you have coffee for that.

 

[max219]

1% cottage cheese (with gelatin, maple syrup or honey) and shrimp are my major sources. Sometimes I use low fat yogurt. I usually get the rest of my protein from fruit cause I eat a ton of it. I end up between 80-120 grams most day, over 150 if I'm aiming to get more protein from cottage cheese.

 

[Nstocks]

I suppose my very dry skin and lower back pain isn't helped by my very low protein intake either. I didn't realise quite how low I had gone! Has anyone made goat milk cottage cheese? Apparently it's possible to make it using vinegar and no cultures/rennet. With the egg shells, does it matter if they are not organic? I don't eat much, but my brother (bobby builder) eats a LOT of eggs from caged hens.

 

[aquaman]

You're at 37% cals from fat. I'd say 20-25% is optimal. Aim for 15g per meal over 4 meals, eat more fruit carbs, and see how you feel.

[EDIT --> actually, 85 grams fat is OK if you're eating more. If you're 160lbs and lean then you should be eating more like 3000 calories a day, if you increase the protein and carbs and keep fat the same this absolute gram amount will be fine. I'm 6 foot 2, 206 pounds]. Carbs and protein increase will help you put on a bit, and increase metabolism. I'd be aiming for 350g carbs per day.

PROTEIN:
Can you tolerate strained Greek yogurt? 2% FAGE in the UK is nutritionally great - it's 20g of protein in 200g small serving, 4 g fat.. add in some cooked fruits and you have a great small meal.

Other sources: white fish, squid, shellfish, organ meats, bone broth. Crab I have come to love... buy whole cooked or fresh crabs (I get them 2 for £5 from a market in London).

Waitrose sell a great organic cottage cheese that tastes amazing - from Holy Cow. Try this for digestion.

I order really good organic, grass-fed meat from Green Pasture Farms, as well as bones for Broths. Individually freeze portions of liver, heart etc so you can pull out 2 from the freezer per week.

 

[aquaman]

I suppose my very dry skin and lower back pain isn't helped by my very low protein intake either. I didn't realise quite how low I had gone! Has anyone made goat milk cottage cheese? Apparently it's possible to make it using vinegar and no cultures/rennet. With the egg shells, does it matter if they are not organic? I don't eat much, but my brother (bobby builder) eats a LOT of eggs from caged hens.

I ordered animal rennet for like £3 from an online store in the UK - super easy, I got the cheese cloth from them too, and home-make cottage cheese/Ricotta

You basically just warm milk to body temp-ish (around 100F) (i test by dipping finger into it), add rennet, stir, leave for an hour, *slightly* heat to separate the curds and why and strain. If you don't re-heat you get more ricotta consistency. Use semi-skimmed milk I'd suggest.

 

[Nstocks]

I think some of the fat is from junk food (chocolate) and some would be from coconut oil used in the chicken, but usually I don't eat more than 100g fat.

My calories are always low - I'm not and never have been a big eater. I think when I eventually move home (with a new career) I will make some effort in going to the gym to help me bulk up a little and get things moving.

Yogurt isn't good either - I discovered that most of my Paleo problems were from eating far too much fermented food. Sadly I still don't do well with yogurt. There are some good recipes out there with fruit, so II'll give it a go.

I usually get my meat from Well Hung Meat Company or Graig Farm, but Green Pasture Farms seem cheaper. (I don't think they use to deliver to my area when I looked at them before).

Have you experimented with goat milk to make cottage cheese? (If that's even possible)

 

[aquaman]

My calories are always low - I'm not and never have been a big eater. I think when I eventually move home (with a new career) I will make some effort in going to the gym to help me bulk up a little and get things moving.

What are you trying to achieve with this way of eating? If it's an energy/metabolism/thyroid fixing, it goes hand-in-hand with upping your calorie intake.

RP talks about having eaten 6000-8000 cals a day as a younger man.

 

[Nstocks]

My calories are always low - I'm not and never have been a big eater. I think when I eventually move home (with a new career) I will make some effort in going to the gym to help me bulk up a little and get things moving.

What are you trying to achieve with this way of eating? If it's an energy/metabolism/thyroid fixing, it goes hand-in-hand with upping your calorie intake.

RP talks about having eaten 6000-8000 cals a day as a younger man.

Energy and warmer feet mainly. My feet don't get quite as cold but I never have much energy. (I work part time, currently between careers and spend most of my week at home and around 11 hours in bed) I know there is way more to diet, which I won't get right until the other parts of my life improve. Hopefully that will be within the next two months.

 

[aquaman]

My calories are always low - I'm not and never have been a big eater. I think when I eventually move home (with a new career) I will make some effort in going to the gym to help me bulk up a little and get things moving.

What are you trying to achieve with this way of eating? If it's an energy/metabolism/thyroid fixing, it goes hand-in-hand with upping your calorie intake.

RP talks about having eaten 6000-8000 cals a day as a younger man.

Energy and warmer feet mainly. My feet don't get quite as cold but I never have much energy. (I work part time, currently between careers and spend most of my week at home and around 11 hours in bed) I know there is way more to diet, which I won't get right until the other parts of my life improve. Hopefully that will be within the next two months.

THen I would say eating 50% more calories (eventually) would be essential. Don't just pile them on overnight, put work up 200 cals every couple of weeks. The fact that you have never been a big eater doesn't mean it's optimal, as your sleep shows. You're semi-hibernating at the moment... ie saving energy production.

 

[Nstocks]

Hibernating - that sounds exactly how I feel most of the time! I just put it down to over-sleeping and not doing much with my time (between careers right now). Now that I think about it, I probably haven't exceeded 2000 calories since last summer when I did Matt Stone's approach. (Under eating could also be why I have horrible dark under eye circles too)

I'm going stock up on semi skimmed goat milk and gradually consume at least 1 litre per day. I'll see if I can make something with it, like cottage cheese (shop-bought goat cheese makes me bloat and isn't something I can eat by the spoonful). Is rice pudding with fruit preserve a good choice for a meal?

Having mild acne is my biggest worry and I'm supplementing with the following. Advice on dosage amount and time of day will be appreciated:

BioCare Liquid Vitamin A 10,000 iu per day. I usually take it orally but don't pay attention to the foods I take it with i.e. orange juice. (since it's fat soluble, shouldn't it be taken with fat?). (http://www.biocare.co.uk/default.aspx?G ... Guid=16515)

Red Palm oil concentrate 50mg whenever I remember to take them which is probably once per week.

Natural sources RAW Thyroid, one capsule per week. I used to take one a day (as recommended) but I came off it because I didn't want to become reliant.

Thorne Vitamin D/K2. (mixed in one jar it contains Vit D3: 1,000 IU and Vit K2 200mg). I take two drops in the morning.

Solgar Nicotinamide 550mg perhaps 3-4 times a week usually before bed.

Just recently purchased a infrared light and sit under that for 15 minutes a day. I might try the aspirin face mask I've seen mentioned before too.

For the past 6 months I've been drinking freshly squeezed orange juice without pulp, 500ml-1Litre per day

I think I have all the supplements I need and the focus needs to be on food now.

Thanks for all of your help.

 

[jyb]

If I were you I'd ditch all those supps and start over from scratch with the diet thinking about where to get protein, very high calcium, carrot salad, etc. You mentioned you went through paleo, so you have supplements as a reflex, but really food should be first priority. You can get vit A from beef liver, you can get B3 from coffee (without the nasty microcryst. cellulose in the supp you listed), etc.

Also I'm not sure if that thyroid thing you're taking is of any use, it's an over the counter supplement in the UK so it can't be good quality and might not contain any of the hormones for legal reasons. But you'd need a good diet before considering thyroid hormones.

 

[j.]

Your supplement comes with olive oil, so it already has some fat, but eating some other fat at the same time might enhance absorption even more.

 

[Nstocks]

If I were you I'd ditch all those supps and start over from scratch with the diet thinking about where to get protein, very high calcium, carrot salad, etc. You mentioned you went through paleo, so you have supplements as a reflex, but really food should be first priority. You can get vit A from beef liver, you can get B3 from coffee (without the nasty microcryst. cellulose in the supp you listed), etc.

Also I'm not sure if that thyroid thing you're taking is of any use, it's an over the counter supplement in the UK so it can't be good quality and might not contain any of the hormones for legal reasons. But you'd need a good diet before considering thyroid hormones.

I understand your point entirely and don't like taking supplements (apart from K - I'm in the North of the UK). I use to eat raw frozen liver but it was in such small and infrequent quantities that I just gave up and bought a supplement. I can't stand coffee either .

I was quite desperate when I realised I'm probably hypo which is why I bought the supplement but because it's 'natural', like you said the dose probably isn't helpful. I think dairy could be the key to a lot of my problems and I'm going to make more effort with that right now.

Is pudding rice (white) OK a few times a week? I don't eat much starch anyway so this could be a good way of carbs/protein/calcium.

Does anybody know where to buy uncoated aspirin in the UK?

 

[jyb]

Why not if its very well cooked and helps you get the energy you need every day. In my opinion very fresh orange juice is ideal, but it can take time and money to make it, so I do about 1-2L daily and I complement it with white sugar, milk (which contains sugar as lactose), occasionally starch and commercial orange juice, whatever it takes to reach 300g sugar which is the bare minimum I need daily. It's negligible protein calcium, if you can't do dairy I'd seriously consider eggshell powder because calcium is crucial.