High Protein Intake Increases Muscle Mass Even W/o Training

[Blinkyrocket]

I imagine that the "ideal" ratio of macro nutrients is going to be person specific and dependent on ones own physiology, energy expenditure etc. Weight gain is going to be mostly from excess calories rather than a specific macro. But some resistance exercise and a little extra protein never hurt!

I thought so, I just asked the question because I forgot the real question I wanted to ask which is what protein sources are best to get as high as 210 (I won't go that high on account of not weighing that much) without going overboard on the antimetabolic amino acids, besides milk and cheese which I can't eat much of until I can get lower fat versions.

Well why are you worried about low fat versions? If you want to gain weight you need the calories too. I eat about 180-220ish grams of protein a day. Most of it comes from cheese, milk, casein powder, beef, gelatin, shrimp, fish. Best bet is to avoid the worst offenders like chicken which are really high in methionine, limit muscle meats somewhat and use gelatin to add more anti-inflammatory protein.

If you have access to a good brand of cottage cheese that'd be a good protein source that relatively low fat. I haven't got any good brands where I live (all full of gums like carrageenan) so I'm looking into making my own which seems pretty easy.

It's not so much the calories, but the PUFA, if low fat versions ended up being too little calories I'd just use coconut oil. Also, for some reason I just don't like beef, the taste and the feeling I get of the air feeling heavier, more pressure or something, like after eating it, it for some reason becomes incredibly dense and weighs a ton, lol.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

If you are in U.S, I recently discovered a high protein 1% cottage cheese by Friendship. It has cultured milk, but no gums, carrageenan, or added whey...so pretty clean. 32grams of protein per cup. It tastes great too. First low-fat cottage cheese I've found that both agrees with me and is actually enjoyable to eat.

You could also go with the Fage 0% fat strained, greek yogurt.

Sweet! I hope they have it online on Amazon or something because anything from our local stores is very low quality.

 

[Dean]

If you are in U.S, I recently discovered a high protein 1% cottage cheese by Friendship. It has cultured milk, but no gums, carrageenan, or added whey...so pretty clean. 32grams of protein per cup. It tastes great too. First low-fat cottage cheese I've found that both agrees with me and is actually enjoyable to eat.

You could also go with the Fage 0% fat strained, greek yogurt.

Sweet! I hope they have it online on Amazon or something because anything from our local stores is very low quality.

I just came back to report on this and warn people. Don't waste your time and money on this product!

I just bought a bunch of this from the same grocery store, in the same shelf spot, in the same styled container. I've been eating it for the last few days and noticed it didn't look the same (curds were bigger), it definitely didn't taste as good, and was getting the upper back burning pain I get when food doesn't agree with me--a sensation I always got from any low-fat cottage cheese.

So anyway, lo and behold, I look at the ingredients and locust bean gum and carrageenan are listed on all the containers I bought. This must be a recent change, because their website still lists the ingredients that initially attracted me to the product. (Of course, they probably realize they can get away with fraud, given the state of our food supply and its regulation)

Absolute bait and switch. Disgustingly repugnant behavior from a food manufacturer, that is of course and unfortunately not atypical, however. Just shot off a seething comment through the website and am tempted to call tomorrow and let loose on them. Yet, the poor sap answering the phones for a non-living wage has nothing to do with it. So what's the point.

The level of corruption, of any moral scruples whatever in this country is just almost incomprehensible. You really have to be on constant guard.

So, I apologize for my previous recommendation and discourage anyone and everyone from ever buying anything produced by Friendship Dairies in NY.

 

[narouz]

There's this brand called "Daisy" that I get.
It is in the regular grocery stores--not "healthfood stores."
It doesn't have those gums,
and forefronts it simple ingredients.
It doesn't have a sour taste,
so I've hoped that it does not add back some of the lactic acidy whey,
maybe just some cream.
They have 4% and 2%....

 

[jyb]

Re: High protein intake increases muscle mass even w/o train

It might pick it up unless they separate it raw, I don't know. This is the study that is usually given: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23375414/

What do you recon about gelatin powder? Or pure glycine powder? On Great Lakes products there seems to be a heavy metals screening but can't figure how pure it is. The study you cite is for chicken. Ray said bones from old cows used for this have lots of lead. Is gelatin still worth it at the cost of heavy metals? Is lead excreted efficiently? :?

 

[Dean]

There's this brand called "Daisy" that I get.
It is in the regular grocery stores--not "healthfood stores."
It doesn't have those gums,
and forefronts it simple ingredients.
It doesn't have a sour taste,
so I've hoped that it does not add back some of the lactic acidy whey,
maybe just some cream.
They have 4% and 2%....

oh yeah, I'm familiar with the Daisy. I've eaten the full fat version for years. The low-fat variety doesn't agree with me though despite--as you say--being cleaner than most. Been restricting fats for a while now for variety of reasons. I haven't seen the Daisy cottage cheese around anyway since I moved to Florida a few months ago. Have seen the sour cream, but not the cottage cheese.

Anyway, I bought the Friendship brand at a regular grocery store. Didn't mean to imply they were marketing themselves as a super premium healthy brand. It's not expensive either. I was foolish enough to believe their ingredient list and that they would change the labeling or something if they were going to change the recipe...yeah know, big bold lettering "NOW INCLUDING YUMMY CARRAGEENAN AND LOCUST BEAN GUM". They could at least change the ingredients on their website. But hey, they are just trying to make a buck. whatever they have to do, they have to do. surely I can't begrudge them that. It is the only thing we are put here on this earth to do after all.

 

[Dutchie]

I imagine that the "ideal" ratio of macro nutrients is going to be person specific and dependent on ones own physiology, energy expenditure etc. Weight gain is going to be mostly from excess calories rather than a specific macro. But some resistance exercise and a little extra protein never hurt!

I thought so, I just asked the question because I forgot the real question I wanted to ask which is what protein sources are best to get as high as 210 (I won't go that high on account of not weighing that much) without going overboard on the antimetabolic amino acids, besides milk and cheese which I can't eat much of until I can get lower fat versions.

Well why are you worried about low fat versions? If you want to gain weight you need the calories too. I eat about 180-220ish grams of protein a day. Most of it comes from cheese, milk, casein powder, beef, gelatin, shrimp, fish. Best bet is to avoid the worst offenders like chicken which are really high in methionine, limit muscle meats somewhat and use gelatin to add more anti-inflammatory protein.

If you have access to a good brand of cottage cheese that'd be a good protein source that relatively low fat. I haven't got any good brands where I live (all full of gums like carrageenan) so I'm looking into making my own which seems pretty easy.

It's not so much the calories, but the PUFA, if low fat versions ended up being too little calories I'd just use coconut oil. Also, for some reason I just don't like beef, the taste and the feeling I get of the air feeling heavier, more pressure or something, like after eating it, it for some reason becomes incredibly dense and weighs a ton, lol.

Another option If you insist on wanting most of your proteins from milk(products) and there is no good quality skim milk available to you,is maybe you could look online and buy quality skim milk/fatfree milk powder? (you can use it to make milk,but also in making other things like icecream,milkchocolate etc.)

 

[narouz]

But hey, they are just trying to make a buck. whatever they have to do, they have to do. surely I can't begrudge them that. It is the only thing we are put here on this earth to do after all.

Come awn, mayan!

 

[Such_Saturation]

Re: High protein intake increases muscle mass even w/o train

It might pick it up unless they separate it raw, I don't know. This is the study that is usually given: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23375414/

What do you recon about gelatin powder? Or pure glycine powder? On Great Lakes products there seems to be a heavy metals screening but can't figure how pure it is. The study you cite is for chicken. Ray said bones from old cows used for this have lots of lead. Is gelatin still worth it at the cost of heavy metals? Is lead excreted efficiently? :?

I don't know I stopped buying gelatin because it just makes the stomach bloated. I need some glycine but the budget is tight.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

I imagine that the "ideal" ratio of macro nutrients is going to be person specific and dependent on ones own physiology, energy expenditure etc. Weight gain is going to be mostly from excess calories rather than a specific macro. But some resistance exercise and a little extra protein never hurt!

I thought so, I just asked the question because I forgot the real question I wanted to ask which is what protein sources are best to get as high as 210 (I won't go that high on account of not weighing that much) without going overboard on the antimetabolic amino acids, besides milk and cheese which I can't eat much of until I can get lower fat versions.

Well why are you worried about low fat versions? If you want to gain weight you need the calories too. I eat about 180-220ish grams of protein a day. Most of it comes from cheese, milk, casein powder, beef, gelatin, shrimp, fish. Best bet is to avoid the worst offenders like chicken which are really high in methionine, limit muscle meats somewhat and use gelatin to add more anti-inflammatory protein.

If you have access to a good brand of cottage cheese that'd be a good protein source that relatively low fat. I haven't got any good brands where I live (all full of gums like carrageenan) so I'm looking into making my own which seems pretty easy.

It's not so much the calories, but the PUFA, if low fat versions ended up being too little calories I'd just use coconut oil. Also, for some reason I just don't like beef, the taste and the feeling I get of the air feeling heavier, more pressure or something, like after eating it, it for some reason becomes incredibly dense and weighs a ton, lol.

Another option If you insist on wanting most of your proteins from milk(products) and there is no good quality skim milk available to you,is maybe you could look online and buy quality skim milk/fatfree milk powder? (you can use it to make milk,but also in making other things like icecream,milkchocolate etc.)

I was thinking about that, but then I thought about the oxidized cholesterol, I guess for awhile it wouldn't hurt that bad.

 

[jyb]

Re: High protein intake increases muscle mass even w/o train

I don't know I stopped buying gelatin because it just makes the stomach bloated. I need some glycine but the budget is tight.

I swear the (expensive) hydrolysed green of Great Lakes never caused me problem, I only stopped using it because I read it wasn't as effective as a non-hydro powder. Still unsure about lead in that one too.

 

[nullredvector]

So casein seems to be a good candidate. Like mentioned earlier, collagen/gelatin does nothing for me as a food. I'm just trying to limit tryptophan as much as possible, but I think I need the extra protein for my liver. What's the daily recommended upper limit for tryptophan?

Comparing casein and grassfed beef on cronometer (77g of protein - ~1g tryptophan), the amino acid profile looks very similar.

Also, should hypothyroid be considered? I've read that hypo can waste protein, but i;ve also read you need protein to increase thyroid...

 

[Agent207]

What foods should be ideal for hitting 200gr protein minimizing methionine intake?

 

[Joocy_J]

post 49442 How do we apply this? Going over three quarts of milk gets expensive, and I don't know if I'm comfortable eating tens of grams of protein concentrates, whether they have soy lecithin or not. Gelatin has an unbalanced profile (no muscle synthesis) and has lots of lead.

How much do you pay for milk? Four quarts of milk is like 3 dollars where I am in the US....

 

[answersfound]

post 49442 How do we apply this? Going over three quarts of milk gets expensive, and I don't know if I'm comfortable eating tens of grams of protein concentrates, whether they have soy lecithin or not. Gelatin has an unbalanced profile (no muscle synthesis) and has lots of lead.

How much do you pay for milk? Four quarts of milk is like 3 dollars where I am in the US....

Wow. Where are you. I need milk without added vitamins. I pay 6 for half a gallon. In California it's like 18 for a gallon of raw milk. Crazy. And plenty of people pay it.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I pay $2.43 for a liter of a milk that doesn't try to kill me. And 23 cents are credited for the empty bottle.

 

[Joocy_J]

post 105616

post 49442 How do we apply this? Going over three quarts of milk gets expensive, and I don't know if I'm comfortable eating tens of grams of protein concentrates, whether they have soy lecithin or not. Gelatin has an unbalanced profile (no muscle synthesis) and has lots of lead.

How much do you pay for milk? Four quarts of milk is like 3 dollars where I am in the US....

Wow. Where are you. I need milk without added vitamins. I pay 6 for half a gallon. In California it's like 18 for a gallon of raw milk. Crazy. And plenty of people pay it.

NY but I drink regular milk with added vitamins

 

[Giraffe]

post 49438 The high protein group lost fat mass and built muscle mass WITHOUT doing any training.

Where do you see that in the study? What I see is that they compared the the HP with the NP group, but they did not compare with the data at the end of the wash-in period.

"Body weight did not differ significantly between dietary groups (P = 0.30), but a trend toward an increase in time was observed (P = 0.09) due to a slight expected increase in the HD groups (Supplemental Table 1)."

Traditional threshold values are 5% (= 0.05) or below. A p-value that high is an indicator that the data are not sufficient to support a hypothesis.

Having said that... I do think that a high protein diet can promote increased lean mass while losing fat mass (contrary to what most body builders believe), but I have not found a study yet which supports this. Not yet... :)
_________

Edit: I found such a study.

 

[haidut]

post 105630

post 49438 The high protein group lost fat mass and built muscle mass WITHOUT doing any training.

Where do you see that in the study? What I see is that they compared the the HP with the NP group, but they did not compare with the data at the end of the wash-in period.

"Body weight did not differ significantly between dietary groups (P = 0.30), but a trend toward an increase in time was observed (P = 0.09) due to a slight expected increase in the HD groups (Supplemental Table 1)."

Traditional threshold values are 5% (= 0.05) or below. A p-value that high is an indicator that the data are not sufficient to support a hypothesis.

Having said that... I do think that a high protein diet can promote increased lean mass while losing fat mass (contrary to what most body builders believe), but I have not found a study yet which supports this. Not yet... :)

OK, I will look at the study again, but I thought the abstract said it as well. Why do you care about the wash out period? The study was about whether high protein diet will be beneficial while taken and concomitantly with high fat. If after washout the muscle gains retracted then it still does not invalidate the findings high protein intake increased muscle mass while it was administered.

 

[Giraffe]

post 105632 Why do you care about the wash out period?

I did not mean a wash-out period, but the lack of a baseline. If you look at the figure with the study design, you see that both groups on hypercaloric diets were two weeks on HP conditions and two weeks on the NP conditions. Only the order was different (HP-NP vs NP-HP). At the end of each two-weeks period the body composition was measured. All data were pooled (table 3). The higher lean mass on HP conditions compared to NP conditions could be the result of a loss of lean mass during NP conditions.