Glycine Is Directly Anabolic AND Anticatabolic For The Muscle

[milkboi]

Thanks for sharing. I wonder if it would be just as effective to drink more milk for the lysine.

For me, 2l milk weren‘t enough to balance out 30g gelatin.

 

[Mossy]

For me, 2l milk weren‘t enough to balance out 30g gelatin.

Wow, so over 8 full glasses of milk couldn’t counter 30g of gelatin? And when I say counter, I’m referring to the arginine/lysine imbalance. I know nothing of this and am just going off of the previous comment about it. Are you prone to sickness with gelatin consumption? I’m prone to sickness and allergic reactions in general and am attempting to limit anything that will cause trouble. I’m testing collagen again, but may forgo it.

 

[berk]

I posted a few interesting studies about glycine in the past. Among the interesting properties are lowering cortisol, increasing DHT synthesis, improving insulin sensitivity, and serving as a biomarker of stress.
Glycine Powerfully Lowers Cortisol
Glycine Strongly Upregulates 5-alpha Reductase (5-ar) Activity
Taurine/glycine Ratio As A Biomarker Of Stress

The anticortisol and androgenic properties of glycine make it a prime candidate for building lean muscle tissue, and while the bodybuilding community is more interested in AAS, the livestock industry is constantly searching for new ways to increase muscle growth in animals without using steroids. As a result of this pursuit for anabolic substances, a group of scientists published a study a few years ago showing that a HED of 6g-7g of glycine fully restores the anabolic effects of leucine under conditions of increased inflammation for the organism.
Glycine restores the anabolic response to leucine in a mouse model of acute inflammation. - PubMed - NCBI

It is well-known that anabolic effects of protein greatly diminish an even completely disappear with aging, and inflammation is probably a large factor in that. As a result, most people over 30 have some degree of sarcopenia (muscle wasting). The above study is interesting but was considered not very relevant to people because it was assumed that glycine played only a peripheral role and the anabolic effects were actually due to leucine. In addition, a state of chronic inflammation is (wrongly) believed to affect only a small percentage of people.
This new study below goes a step further and shows that glycine is actually directly anabolic and anticatabolic itself, and at quite reasonable doses/concentrations. The human doses needed to achieve the concentrations mentioned in the study are in the range of 1.5g-6g daily. It is noteworthy that the lowest concentration (equivalent to about 1.5g daily human dose) of glycine actually had the strongest boosting effect on mTOR. So if a person is not in state of severe inflammation, it may be that this meager dose of glycine is all that is needed to restore anabolic state and prevent further catabolism. Russian studies from the 1960s, which were recently replicated in the US, found that glycine exerts an anti-inflammatory effects at any dose. So, even lower doses than 1.5g daily may be sufficient to exert this positive effect on muscle tissue.
Hey @AretnaP, @Jsaute21, @dand - you may find this very interesting.

Glycine Regulates Protein Turnover by Activating Protein Kinase B/Mammalian Target of Rapamycin and by Inhibiting MuRF1 and Atrogin-1 Gene Expression in C2C12 Myoblasts

"...The accretion of muscle protein is dependent on the balance between protein synthesis and degradation (23–25). Alterations in protein turnover are associated with the development of skeletal muscle hypertrophy or atrophy in humans and animals (26, 27). Data from clinical trials and animal models indicate that supplementation of amino acids could stimulate protein synthesis (28, 29) or decrease protein breakdown (30–32) in skeletal muscle, thus contributing to enhanced protein accretion in cells. Our recent studies (19) showed that glycine, one of the most abundant free amino acids in the plasma of pigs (33), promotes skeletal muscle growth in young pigs, suggesting a crucial role of glycine in nutrition and metabolism. However, little is known about the effects of glycine on protein turnover in skeletal muscle or the underlying mechanisms."

"...Our data presented here support the idea that PI3K/Akt is the central hub of glycine-mediated protein turnover in a C2C12 cell model. Specifically, glycine exposure resulted in mTORC1 activation, which was associated with a decreased protein level of p-AMPK, a negative regulator of mTORC1 signaling. This result is in agreement with previous studies showing that the AMPK activator AICAR inhibited the activation of mTORC1 and its downstream targets (34, 35)."

"...It should be noted that glycine activated mTORC1 and its downstream target P70S6K without affecting the protein abundance of p-4E-BP1 in C2C12 cells. This effect was unexpected, and the reason for this observation is currently unknown."

"...In addition, glycine repressed mRNA levels of atrogin-1 and MuRF1, 2 critical genes involved in proteasome degradation of intracellular proteins (13, 15). Our results are in agreement with a previous study that showed that BCAA administration attenuates atrogin-1 and MuRF1 mRNA levels and prevented a decrease in soleus muscle weight in growing rats (39). Importantly, we showed that the effect of glycine on mRNA expression of MuRF1 is dependent on PI3K/Akt signaling, because the repressing effect was abrogated by the PI3K/Akt inhibitor LY294002 (Figure 4). Consistent with the activation of mTORC1 signaling and inhibition of the expression of key genes involved in protein degradation, the addition of glycine to the culture medium led to an increase in the rate of protein synthesis and a decrease in the rate of protein degradation (Tables 1 and 2), which are required for cell proliferation. Considering the positive relation between the upregulated genes involved in ubiquitin-mediated protein breakdown and the development of muscle atrophy (14), our results indicate that glycine supplementation might be a potential nutritional strategy to prevent or treat the muscle wasting that is often observed in various disorders, such as metabolic diseases and severe infections. In vivo studies are warranted to test this hypothesis."

"...In conclusion, the results of the present study showed that glycine, as a functional amino acid, plays a previously unrecognized, important role in regulating protein turnover via PI3K/Akt-dependent activation of mTORC1 and inhibition of proteolysis signaling in C2C12 cells. These findings provide a biochemical mechanism for dietary glycine supplementation to promote lean tissue growth in young pigs and possibly other mammals with a deficiency of glycine."

why nobody talks in this topic about stacking glycine with leucine?
looks like these 2 together have great anabolic/muscle growth benefits.

Anyways, studys shows that taking leucine alone (with no other protein/amino's) the anabolic affects of leucine doesnt work.
Does this also count for glycine?

 

[boris]

How utilizable is the protein from white potatoes? Ray speaks favorably of potato proteins right? FWIW, the only few days in the past few months I've done well were when I got a lot of calories from potatoes (as much as 3 lbs a day) with no animal proteins. Yes, I saw that from one of your other threads on protein utilization. Unfortunately my tolerance of animal products (other than gelatin) is very, very low and even though plant proteins are less usable, overall I feel better on plant products for the bulk of my calories. 16 oz a day of beef turned out to be definitely too much, 8 oz still seems to be too much (gauged by my absolute inability to get 98.6F waking temps), perhaps I can experiment with halving it again to 4 oz instead of going to 0, that's one thing I haven't tried yet (Other than eating straight up 0 animal meat which is the only way I can ever get 98.6F waking temps thus far in 4 months of tracking intakes on chronometer and my personal database). I definitely start to feel protein deficiency at under around the 70-80 gram mark (muscle pain/soreness), but more or less feel fine as long as intake is closer to 100-125g or so. Which I believe is pretty much what Ray also said. I am also sedentary like Ray so my protein needs are similar to his.

Potato protein is special. You actually even get over 100% of the protein value from eating potatoes, because it also contains precursors to amino acids.

 

[johnwester130]

glycine has uses that gelatin doesn't

for example glycine can be used in skin care products

glycine powder is used to remove biofilm from teeth

Gelatin can't do this. Obviously use ajipure if you do this.

 

[sunny]

Glycine, anabolic, anti- catabolic.

 

[Chophouse360]

What type of glycine and how much? Pill form?

 

[milkboi]

What type of glycine and how much? Pill form?

Why would that matter? Glycine powder is more affordable than taking pills, so I'd opt for the former.

 

[Chophouse360]

Why would that matter? Glycine powder is more affordable than taking pills, so I'd opt for the former.

Geeee idk maybe because pills are more convenient

 

[Waynish]

Why is glycine so sweet?

 

[tankasnowgod]

Geeee idk maybe because pills are more convenient

Not if you are taking 5-10 grams or more of the stuff.

 

[Progress888]

Thanks for sharing. I wonder if it would be just as effective to drink more milk for the lysine.

Interesting that you share this!

I picked up a tub of gelatine powder last week due to seeing all of the positive things people say about it

I took it like an hour or two before going to bed

The very next morning I woke up with a huge cold sore underneath my nose which is a location where I never get them.

Usually always get it on the top left part of my lip if I am to get one.

I find I can mitigate ever having flare ups my being mindful of my diet and overall stress levels in life.

Needless to say I haven’t touched the gelatine since.

The thing is to my diet is geared around eating foods that have a higher ratio in lysine to argaine.

So this gelatine really acted as a trigger for me and would recommend anybody else who has similar issues to avoid using as well!

Now my question remains does glycine have argaine in it as well?

Should I begin to supplement with glycine?

I am very active and am in great athletic shape and am always looking for things that will naturally enhance my abilities without causing such detrimental side effects as I described as having experienced above due to the gelatine.

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated ?

 

[Mossy]

Interesting that you share this!

I picked up a tub of gelatine powder last week due to seeing all of the positive things people say about it

I took it like an hour or two before going to bed

The very next morning I woke up with a huge cold sore underneath my nose which is a location where I never get them.

Usually always get it on the top left part of my lip if I am to get one.

I find I can mitigate ever having flare ups my being mindful of my diet and overall stress levels in life.

Needless to say I haven’t touched the gelatine since.

The thing is to my diet is geared around eating foods that have a higher ratio in lysine to argaine.

So this gelatine really acted as a trigger for me and would recommend anybody else who has similar issues to avoid using as well!

Now my question remains does glycine have argaine in it as well?

Should I begin to supplement with glycine?

I am very active and am in great athletic shape and am always looking for things that will naturally enhance my abilities without causing such detrimental side effects as I described as having experienced above due to the gelatine.

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated ?

At the top of this page you'll see that @milkboi noted not even 2l of milk a day was enough to counter the negative effects from 30g of gelatin.

 

[DonLore]

Interesting that you share this!

I picked up a tub of gelatine powder last week due to seeing all of the positive things people say about it

I took it like an hour or two before going to bed

The very next morning I woke up with a huge cold sore underneath my nose which is a location where I never get them.

Usually always get it on the top left part of my lip if I am to get one.

I find I can mitigate ever having flare ups my being mindful of my diet and overall stress levels in life.

Needless to say I haven’t touched the gelatine since.

The thing is to my diet is geared around eating foods that have a higher ratio in lysine to argaine.

So this gelatine really acted as a trigger for me and would recommend anybody else who has similar issues to avoid using as well!

Now my question remains does glycine have argaine in it as well?

Should I begin to supplement with glycine?

I am very active and am in great athletic shape and am always looking for things that will naturally enhance my abilities without causing such detrimental side effects as I described as having experienced above due to the gelatine.

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated ?

Gelatin has miniscule amount of arginine? Shouldnt have no effect on lysine/arginine ratio..

 

[DonLore]

At the top of this page you'll see that @milkboi noted not even 2l of milk a day was enough to counter the negative effects from 30g of gelatin.

How would that make sense. Gelatin has VERY little arginine, and also has some lysine..

 

[Jonnie]

Should I buy Glycine, Gelatin or Collagen hydrolysate?

 

[Mossy]

How would that make sense. Gelatin has VERY little arginine, and also has some lysine..

I'm not certain how to "make sense" of it, but people on this thread are noting they're having side effects from gelatin which are consistent with low lysine: cold sores and being "susceptible to viruses".

 

[David PS]

Interesting that you share this!

I picked up a tub of gelatine powder last week due to seeing all of the positive things people say about it

I took it like an hour or two before going to bed

The very next morning I woke up with a huge cold sore underneath my nose which is a location where I never get them.

Usually always get it on the top left part of my lip if I am to get one.

I find I can mitigate ever having flare ups my being mindful of my diet and overall stress levels in life.

Needless to say I haven’t touched the gelatine since.

The thing is to my diet is geared around eating foods that have a higher ratio in lysine to argaine.

So this gelatine really acted as a trigger for me and would recommend anybody else who has similar issues to avoid using as well!

Now my question remains does glycine have argaine in it as well?

Should I begin to supplement with glycine?

I am very active and am in great athletic shape and am always looking for things that will naturally enhance my abilities without causing such detrimental side effects as I described as having experienced above due to the gelatine.

Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated ?

It is my understanding that to avoid cold sores you want to keep the lysine to arginine ratio of your above 1.0. Gelatin has a ratio of about 0.5. Too much gelatin will disrupt the ratio and put you into an undesirable range.

gelatine composition at DuckDuckGo

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In contrast to gelatin, collagen has a ratio of lysine to arginine of about 1.7. It has a better lysine to arginine ratio but much less glycine.

collagen composition at DuckDuckGo

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Taking glycine by itself will not cause cold sore problems. Some people find that glycine upsets their stomach.

 

[DonLore]

It is my understanding that to avoid cold sores you want to keep the lysine to arginine ratio of your above 1.0. Gelatin has a ratio of about 0.5. Too much gelatin will disrupt the ratio and put you into an undesirable range.

gelatine composition at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

In contrast to gelatin, collagen has a ratio of lysine to arginine of about 1.7. It has a better lysine to arginine ratio but much less glycine.

collagen composition at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Taking glycine by itself will not cause cold sore problems. Some people find that glycine upsets their stomach.

The amounts of both lysine and arginine in collagen/gelatin are so small that even a bite of beef/sip of milk has more of those. So it cant be the lysine/arginine ratio that causes some people problems

 

[David PS]

The amounts of both lysine and arginine in collagen/gelatin are so small that even a bite of beef/sip of milk has more of those. So it cant be the lysine/arginine ratio that causes some people problems

He stated that he was taking gelatin as a supplement before bed (on an otherwise empty stomach?). A large enough bolus of manufactured gelatin could create an environment overnight favorable to the creation of a cold sore overnight.

Heretofore, I thought that the the daily ratio of lysine to arginine would protect against cold sores. I now believe that a cold sore could in fact materialize after a single bolus of manufactured gelatin at the end of the day followed by the normal nightly fast.

The lysine to arginine ratio is well known in the cold sore community. His daily ratio may not be as high as he thought. There are large number of foods that he might have been eating that had too much arginine.

https://getvirafend.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Table-of-L-lysine-to-L-arginine-Ratio-in-Common-Foods.pdf