Has Anyone Ever Actually Heard Dr Peat Recommend A High Carb Diet?

[snacks]

You may not be as important as you you think.

I don't think I'm very important, hence finding your obsession weird. Just sperg at someone else or keep writing your thesis on Ray Peat's 20 inch schlong, I really do not care so long as I'm not tagged

 

[managing]

I don't think I'm very important, hence finding your obsession weird. Just sperg at someone else or keep writing your thesis on Ray Peat's 20 inch schlong, I really do not care so long as I'm not tagged

Good. I've never found lame penis jokes to be very important either.

 

[Hgreen56]

yes I have done zero fat for 2 or 3 days. Very useful for PUFA depletion.

This PUFA depletion I never really understood how that works but we're just talking about burning fat, right? what have you noticed in these 3 days?

Interesting. I'm at the very high end of fat consumption (the tl;dr is that I try to emulate the saxon trio diet with the exception of the pastries which I don't tolerate well) and never noticed much benefit from very low fat (I think I did 30g or so for about a month) but this might be because I'm young-ish and haven't had the chance for much PUFA accumulation? Or maybe just my very high vitamin E I dunno

I am now eat more like 3 a 4 months or so (stop counting) on 30 grams of fat a day and also never noticed any fat loss or something other benefits.
Only benefits was that i was losing water weight, but no fat. not even during kcal restriction for 2 weeks.
I doubt if reducing fat intake to zero will help this.

 

[ecstatichamster]

PUFA depletion is zero fat. You feel a flu like symptoms set unless your PUFAs are already depleted. I think it is very useful.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

In a recent interview I'll have to find it but I think it's with jodelle, where he said 100% carbohydrate diet would be best. I never heard him say that before, and the context was basically keeping fat and polyunsaturated fats very low in order to make your own omega-9 mead acid fats. All those carbohydrates would create carbon dioxide and oxygen use very high like in the William Brown experiment.

lol, sounds funny. Mead acid still seems unphysiologic and increases by stress of PUFA depletion and concurrent failure to reach unsaturation requirements/sufficiency of tissue need. What peeps need is at least 2pct each, 4 in total of O6 and O3 in a ratio of 1 : 1 to have proper inflammation and proper clearance/resolve. Also respect to unsaturation requirements, all Animalfats contain SAT : MONO ratio of 50 : 50, coconut oil and milkfat are skewing it towards saturation too much, CO severely so. More MONO is highly contra - inflammatory by virtue of bonding to elongation/desaturation enzymes without contributing to prostaglandins or leukotrienes.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

WestsidePUFA had a really good excerpt on his YT channel from one of Ray's interviews. Someone called in and asked him a question about saturated fat vs sugar, and which one was better for the purposes of maximizing longevity. Ray basically told him to eat "as much sugar or starch as possible, and keep fats low."

Unfortunately Westside deleted his YT channel, and I don't know which interview that was from. But I found this to be particularly interesting, because Ray is essentially saying carbohydrates, of any kind, trump dietary fats of any kind. Ray is often portrayed as a anti-starch advocate, but if we take what he says at face value here, both sugar AND starch is better then saturated fat (this is also probably why WestsidePUFA posted that clip, he was always the big pro-starch advocated in the community).

Ray's view seems to be we can make saturated fats from glucose, so there's no need to lower our CO2 retention by eating high amounts of them. Also, with the exception of making SFAs from glucose, there's no such thing as "pure saturated fat." Coconut oil, butter, beef, lamb, etc. all have some PUFA in them as well. And eating large amounts of them will result in PUFA accumulation over the subject's lifetime. He has made this point a few times as well.

I am under the inpression that lipogenesis is very stressful to the liver though.

 

[tallglass13]

lol, sounds funny. Mead acid still seems unphysiologic and increases by stress of PUFA depletion and concurrent failure to reach unsaturation requirements/sufficiency of tissue need. What peeps need is at least 2pct each, 4 in total of O6 and O3 in a ratio of 1 : 1 to have proper inflammation and proper clearance/resolve. Also respect to unsaturation requirements, all Animalfats contain SAT : MONO ratio of 50 : 50, coconut oil and milkfat are skewing it towards saturation too much, CO severely so. More MONO is highly contra - inflammatory by virtue of bonding to elongation/desaturation enzymes without contributing to prostaglandins or leukotrienes.

You're probably right dude, the mythical mead acid only seen in babies as far as Ray peat says. And only made when were zero poofa which no one is. I love Ray peat. But something's missing and it might be something obvious .However somebody over on the low vitamin A forum got tested for parathyroid and was low. So something's going on with that low vitamin A too. If we can get perfect numbers without doing Ray peat diet then Ray should be happy. Since according to some there is no Ray peat diet, haha

 

[Tristan Loscha]

You're probably right dude, the mythical mead acid only seen in babies as far as Ray peat says. And only made when were zero poofa which no one is. I love Ray peat. But something's missing and it might be something obvious .However somebody over on the low vitamin A forum got tested for parathyroid and was low. So something's going on with that low vitamin A too. If we can get perfect numbers without doing Ray peat diet then Ray should be happy. Since according to some there is no Ray peat diet, haha

I am not a Vitamin A - denier lol, i share Peat's concern for fragility of polyunsaturated Fat, but that mead acid could be a physiological replacement of the other pufas seems so improbable, given the ubiquity of them in the entire foodchain, and rather proven adverse effects of severe withdrawal and even just by high glucose and insulin levels and concomitant inhibition of lipolysis. Many members have seborrheic dermatitis/dandruff after onset of Peat - like dieting, which could be GH/igf - mediated or by inhibition of lipolysis, and onset of symptomatology reminescent of mild efad - syndrome.

 

[Jessie]

I am under the inpression that lipogenesis is very stressful to the liver though.

It's not ideal, but from my understanding lipogenesis is a very insufficient pathway (in humans). From the studies that I've seen cited by Haidut, you would need to consume upwards of 500+ grams of carbohydrate a day just to generate a couple grams of fat. So, in theory, for every 1,000 gram of carbs you would make roughly a teaspoon of fat. And it's saturated, so it wouldn't adversely effect the liver as much as unsaturated fats present in dietary sources of fat.

You would also be bypassing the possible intestinal issues from eating large amounts of dietary fat. Which, I realize is somewhat controversial to certain members here, but from everything I've seen dietary fat increases the chance of endotoxemia. This is irrespective of if it's saturated or unsaturated. In fact most studies I've seen concluded saturated fat is worse at pulling LPS into the bloodstream. Bear in mind most these studies consider lard to be a "saturated" fat, when in reality it's far more monounsaturated.

But even if you're not convinced high saturated fat diets will increase LPS absorption, the fact it lowers CO2 and pushes us closer to that reductive state is enough to prioritize carbohydrate over fat imo.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

-

 

[Tristan Loscha]

It's not ideal, but from my understanding lipogenesis is a very insufficient pathway (in humans). From the studies that I've seen cited by Haidut, you would need to consume upwards of 500+ grams of carbohydrate a day just to generate a couple grams of fat. So, in theory, for every 1,000 gram of carbs you would make roughly a teaspoon of fat. And it's saturated, so it wouldn't adversely effect the liver as much as unsaturated fats present in dietary sources of fat.

You would also be bypassing the possible intestinal issues from eating large amounts of dietary fat. Which, I realize is somewhat controversial to certain members here, but from everything I've seen dietary fat increases the chance of endotoxemia. This is irrespective of if it's saturated or unsaturated. In fact most studies I've seen concluded saturated fat is worse at pulling LPS into the bloodstream. Bear in mind most these studies consider lard to be a "saturated" fat, when in reality it's far more monounsaturated.

But even if you're not convinced high saturated fat diets will increase LPS absorption, the fact it lowers CO2 and pushes us closer to that reductive state is enough to prioritize carbohydrate over fat imo.

We are overthinking it way too hard and put too much irrational trust in contemporary cartoons of energyproduction.

 

[Hgreen56]

i see conflicting things here.

Blood sugar spikes arent good accoring to Peat - they lead to obesity.

and:

Although it has nothing to do with insulin, this is something to consider:
"Int: We notice the same part in France. You go to France and they all eat cheese and they’re all very slender. , so what you’re saying is 400 calories from orange juice is not comparative to 400 calories from baked potatoes and rice?

RP: Definitely not. It stimulates the metabolism and supresses the stress hormones.

Int: Where as 400 calories from baked potatoes and rice would increase your stress hormones and suppress your metabolism?

RP: Yeah and then there is the matter of the starch particles. If you don’t have some saturated fat with them the starch particles can set up a whole pattern of stress and entry by entering your blood stream, which people taking supplements should be careful to avoid anything with particles such as titanium dioxide or silica.
Those are very allergenic particles that are in all supplements practically.
Those things getting into the blood stream and trigger the stress hormones. Obesity is the least of the things they contribute to… "
Weight Loss, KMUD Herb Doctors, 2013
Sugar it is.
​

Ron J, May 24, 2017 ReportBookmark

So ray wants to decrease insulin levels much as possible becease this lead to obesity. i can understand that.
That people in France are very slender be-cease they all eat cheese (high fat) that inhibit insulin makes lot of sense to.

But then he says that he eat 400 gr sugar and tons of skim milk???
sugars and protein always trigger insulin, especially if you put them together.
so his insulin much be skyrocking all over the place, day in day out.
if his goal really to lower insulin much as possible he need to add fat to it. this will lower the spikes, but looks like he doesn't care.

I understand he want to avoid PUFA and the reasons behind it.
But saying that high insuline spikes lead to obesity and than spiking his insulin all over the place consuming skim milk and sugar makes no sense to me...

Confusing.

he’s mentioned 1% milk and orange juice as staples, and he’s mentioned having more carbs than fats increases co2 and prevents reductive stress

more carbs = more bloodsugar go's up and down. looks very stressfull to me.

 

[Recoen]

i see conflicting things here.

Blood sugar spikes arent good accoring to Peat - they lead to obesity.

and:


So ray wants to decrease insulin levels much as possible becease this lead to obesity. i can understand that.
That people in France are very slender be-cease they all eat cheese (high fat) that inhibit insulin makes lot of sense to.

But then he says that he eat 400 gr sugar and tons of skim milk???
sugars and protein always trigger insulin, especially if you put them together.
so his insulin much be skyrocking all over the place, day in day out.
if his goal really to lower insulin much as possible he need to add fat to it. this will lower the spikes, but looks like he doesn't care.

I understand he want to avoid PUFA and the reasons behind it.
But saying that high insuline spikes lead to obesity and than spiking his insulin all over the place consuming skim milk and sugar makes no sense to me...

Confusing.


more carbs = more bloodsugar go's up and down. looks very stressfull to me.

Insulin only does ~10% transport of “sugar/carbs/ glucose” (“” because people use them interchangeably) through “GLUT4” (“” because receptors...). Potassium handles, or is supposed to, the majority.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

Insulin only does ~10% transport of “sugar/carbs/ glucose” (“” because people use them interchangeably) through “GLUT4” (“” because receptors...). Potassium handles, or is supposed to, the majority.

GLUT1 and GLUT4 are the major ones induced by insulin. Has Peat ever referenced the potassium thing?

 

[Tristan Loscha]

i see conflicting things here.

Blood sugar spikes arent good accoring to Peat - they lead to obesity.

and:


So ray wants to decrease insulin levels much as possible becease this lead to obesity. i can understand that.
That people in France are very slender be-cease they all eat cheese (high fat) that inhibit insulin makes lot of sense to.

But then he says that he eat 400 gr sugar and tons of skim milk???
sugars and protein always trigger insulin, especially if you put them together.
so his insulin much be skyrocking all over the place, day in day out.
if his goal really to lower insulin much as possible he need to add fat to it. this will lower the spikes, but looks like he doesn't care.

I understand he want to avoid PUFA and the reasons behind it.
But saying that high insuline spikes lead to obesity and than spiking his insulin all over the place consuming skim milk and sugar makes no sense to me...

Confusing.


more carbs = more bloodsugar go's up and down. looks very stressfull to me.

Peat is not immune to bias and he is adjusting factors and to comply with his CHO - centric view of production of cellular energy. The inefficient trafficking of carbohydrate is a major issue, and kills many. People are pre - diabetic with a Hi CHO type of diet + sedentary lifestyling.

 

[schultz]

I doubt the said that since a diet consisting of 100% carbohydrates would lead to certain death within several months.

I believe he said 100% of energy, not 100% of the diet.

You're probably right dude, the mythical mead acid only seen in babies as far as Ray peat says.

We make small amounts of it depending on our PUFA intake. It's not an on/off switch but more of a gradient. We make more as the PUFA drops. You don't have to be EFAD to make it. They define EFAD as a certain ratio between triene/tetraene but before that ratio is achieved you are still making Mead acid. So I assume many forum members are making it. Also it could vary during the day. You'd probably make less at night when you're not eating and releasing FFA but perhaps more during the day when you're suppressing FFA and eating a lot of carbohydrates.

But then he says that he eat 400 gr sugar and tons of skim milk???

Fruit is low GI relative to something like white rice. He drinks 1% milk I believe.

Actually I was just looking and skim is listed as a lower GI than full-fat milk. 37 is pretty low GI. Orange juice is 50 and a boiled potato is 78.

 

[Recoen]

GLUT1 and GLUT4 are the major ones induced by insulin. Has Peat ever referenced the potassium thing?

Glut1 is insulin independent but goes with glut4 into insulin sensitive cells
Insulin-independent glucose transport regulates insulin sensitivity - PubMed

Yes, Peat has mentioned potassium and said this is one of the many reasons fruit is an important component of the diet, in many interviews.

 

[James IV]

Nice copy/paste OP.

 

[Wagner83]

Indeed, an other striking example of synchronicity :

Has anyone ever actually heard Dr Peat reccomemd a high carb diet? The only time I've ever heard him questioned about optimal macro ratios, he said he doesn't know, and that 33/33/33 might be good. That's hardly high carb.
In fact, the only time I've heard him use the words "high carb," is when he mentioned that a "high carb diet can be healthy, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health." Interpret that how you may, but that doesn't sound like a recommendation to me.

I'm not implying that a high carb diet is bad or good. Just that I've never heard Ray say it was optimal, or say anything close to that. Sufficient carbs, protein, all fats from saturated sources, avoid toxins and irritating foods; that's what I see.

Has anyone ever actually heard Dr Peat recommend a high carb diet?
The only time I've ever heard him questioned about optimal macro ratios, he said he doesn't know, and that 33/33/33 might be good. That's hardly high carb.
In fact, the only time I've heard him use the words "high carb," is when he mentioned that a "high carb diet can be healthy, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health." Interpret that how you may, but that doesn't sound like a recommendation to me.
I'm not implying that a high carb diet is bad or good. Just that I've never heard Ray say it was optimal, or say anything close to that. Sufficient carbs, protein, all fats from saturated sources, avoid toxins and irritating foods; that's what I see.

 

[Hgreen56]

Did you search the forum? This question must have come up 100 times before and keeps coming up. There is probably no ideal ratio and thus no perfect diet aside from avoiding PUFA and making good choices at every meal subject to limitations on what is available. Peat said in healthy people fat/protein/sugar could be equal (33/33/33 percent of calories). In hypo people the fat intake should probably be below 20% to support thyroid synthesis and conversion.

Think the context is makes us confused and this is what peat really means.
Healthy people vs not healthy..