Has Anyone Ever Actually Heard Dr Peat Recommend A High Carb Diet?

Hgreen56

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Has anyone ever actually heard Dr Peat recommend a high carb diet?
The only time I've ever heard him questioned about optimal macro ratios, he said he doesn't know, and that 33/33/33 might be good. That's hardly high carb.
In fact, the only time I've heard him use the words "high carb," is when he mentioned that a "high carb diet can be healthy, and even a high starch diet isn't necessarily incompatible with good health." Interpret that how you may, but that doesn't sound like a recommendation to me.
I'm not implying that a high carb diet is bad or good. Just that I've never heard Ray say it was optimal, or say anything close to that. Sufficient carbs, protein, all fats from saturated sources, avoid toxins and irritating foods; that's what I see.
 

snacks

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Ray Peat is high carb relative to the other diet fads (i.e. Keto, Carnivore) that are going around currently but the VERY high carb diets you occasionally see are more so a product of this forum than Peat. You saw many more of them in this forum's nascency than you do now so that should say something about the efficacy of it
 

gaze

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He’s mentioned that he’s made an effort in the past 20 years years to increase sugars as opposed to fats because even butter and coconut oil contain 2% PUFA, he’s mentioned he gets close to 400g of carbs daily, , he’s mentioned 1% milk and orange juice as staples, and he’s mentioned having more carbs than fats increases co2 and prevents reductive stress
 

tallglass13

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In a recent interview I'll have to find it but I think it's with jodelle, where he said 100% carbohydrate diet would be best. I never heard him say that before, and the context was basically keeping fat and polyunsaturated fats very low in order to make your own omega-9 mead acid fats. All those carbohydrates would create carbon dioxide and oxygen use very high like in the William Brown experiment.
 

nomoreketones

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Has anyone ever actually heard Dr Peat recommend a high carb diet?

I have never heard him mention a high carb diet.

Here is my limited and possibly flawed understanding of Ray Peat's point of view on this:
Ray Peat does focus on the Randal Cycle which is the competition of glucose and fat as the source of energy for cells. The more FFAs that are used as fuel, the less glucose is used for fuel. According to Ray Peat carbs are the superior fuel because the use of carbs leads to a higher amount of carbon dioxide in the blood. Carbon Dioxide is anti-stress and is very important in oxidative metabolism which is when the lactate produced from glucose is turned into ATP in a cell's mitochondria. There is something about carbon dioxide that assists in oxidative metabolism which I don't understand.

Also, I have seen Ray Peat recommend lower fat milk for those who need to lose weight because full fat milk is fattening.
 

RealNeat

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I have never heard him mention a high carb diet.

Here is my limited and possibly flawed understanding of Ray Peat's point of view on this:
Ray Peat does focus on the Randal Cycle which is the competition of glucose and fat as the source of energy for cells. The more FFAs that are used as fuel, the less glucose is used for fuel. According to Ray Peat carbs are the superior fuel because the use of carbs leads to a higher amount of carbon dioxide in the blood. Carbon Dioxide is anti-stress and is very important in oxidative metabolism which is when the lactate produced from glucose is turned into ATP in a cell's mitochondria. There is something about carbon dioxide that assists in oxidative metabolism which I don't understand.

Also, I have seen Ray Peat recommend lower fat milk for those who need to lose weight because full fat milk is fattening.

the CO2 assists in not only regulating mineral balance in and out of the cell but it assists in proper oxidative metabolism by opposing lactate and preventing the cell from getting too alkaline and essentially breaking cell function.

IMO and it seems Rays insinuation the higher carb you want to be the higher the quality of the carbs need to be. This is why you see 80/10/10 fruitarians heading to the tropics. Good environment conducive to oxidative metabolism and ripe high sugar, mineral, vitamin, amino acid, keto acid fruit. (they are still skinny with low muscle mass though, so the protein is not enough IMO but with less stress and environmental toxins, if you are ok with looking wimpy, no prob)

Try doing that in most of the US and youll get rotten teeth from unripe fruit, mineral and vitamin deficiencies, burnout from low variation of diet, winter. Unless you start incorporating starches, cooked fruit "spiced" up with processed sugar, which still would be subpar.
 

mrchibbs

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No in fact I've always heard Ray being careful about this. He speaks of small snacks emphasizing easy to digest carbs or simple sugars.
Emphasis on small portions because our ability to extract energy from food is rate-limited when we're sick. A glass of milk, juice as a convenient option in place of unripe fruits, frequent snacks to provide enough energy frequently, instead of large meals which we can't metabolize when we're sick and therefore it goes to fat storage.

I think many people try to emulate Ray's already high rate of metabolism and drink 2 quarts of store-bought OJ, or potatoes etc. When we're sick we need to eat easy to digest carbs and simple and keep the most difficult, starchy carbs to the time of day when metabolism peaks (because digestion is better at that point), typically late afternoon. Or avoiding starches altogether when you're sick.

In theory, if stress is extremely low, and the physiological structure is not already damaged, simple sugars, and the minerals, vitamins and amino acids of fruits would be enough to sustain health. And a truly oxidative metabolism would necessarily rely on ripe fruits and simple carbs. Animal proteins are truly therapeutic for chronic stress, but wouldn't be nearly as necessary if there wasn't this chronic stress from our deficient environments.

Dietary fat itself shouldn't be the core component of the diet, but it clearly plays a crucial role in slowing down the absorption and breakdown of the carbs and protein, and even caffeine, hence why he recommends taking coffee with good heavy cream.

After years of dieting, fasting and stress, it's easy to gain so much fat trying to jump straight into 2 quarts of milk, butter on everything and an overload of sugar.

At the core sickness manifests when we can't extract sufficient energy from our foods (or we don't get enough food at all). The idea is to rebuild this oxidative metabolism, with small frequent meals, protein (for the liver function), fat (to sustain and facilitate absorption), and adaptogens like caffeine, extra vitamins, cypropheptadine, vitamin e, along with environmental interventions.

I'm repeating myself but I think the main reason why some people get worst on a "Ray Peat Diet" is that they often eat too much, and too big portions, and they get fat, which increases estrogen load and other negative factors, driven by the circulating free fatty acids.
 

gaze

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No in fact I've always heard Ray being careful about this. He speaks of small snacks emphasizing easy to digest carbs or simple sugars.
Emphasis on small portions because our ability to extract energy from food is rate-limited when we're sick. A glass of milk, juice as a convenient option in place of unripe fruits, frequent snacks to provide enough energy frequently, instead of large meals which we can't metabolize when we're sick and therefore it goes to fat storage.

I think many people try to emulate Ray's already high rate of metabolism and drink 2 quarts of store-bought OJ, or potatoes etc. When we're sick we need to eat easy to digest carbs and simple and keep the most difficult, starchy carbs to the time of day when metabolism peaks (because digestion is better at that point), typically late afternoon. Or avoiding starches altogether when you're sick.

In theory, if stress is extremely low, and the physiological structure is not already damaged, simple sugars, and the minerals, vitamins and amino acids of fruits would be enough to sustain health. And a truly oxidative metabolism would necessarily rely on ripe fruits and simple carbs. Animal proteins are truly therapeutic for chronic stress, but wouldn't be nearly as necessary if there wasn't this chronic stress from our deficient environments.

Dietary fat itself shouldn't be the core component of the diet, but it clearly plays a crucial role in slowing down the absorption and breakdown of the carbs and protein, and even caffeine, hence why he recommends taking coffee with good heavy cream.

After years of dieting, fasting and stress, it's easy to gain so much fat trying to jump straight into 2 quarts of milk, butter on everything and an overload of sugar.

At the core sickness manifests when we can't extract sufficient energy from our foods (or we don't get enough food at all). The idea is to rebuild this oxidative metabolism, with small frequent meals, protein (for the liver function), fat (to sustain and facilitate absorption), and adaptogens like caffeine, extra vitamins, cypropheptadine, vitamin e, along with environmental interventions.

I'm repeating myself but I think the main reason why some people get worst on a "Ray Peat Diet" is that they often eat too much, and too big portions, and they get fat, which increases estrogen load and other negative factors, driven by the circulating free fatty acids.

Yea, most people don't understand that the Ray Peat "diet" is really a ray peat lifestyle which involves a 180 turnaround in mindset, activities, thoughts, etc.. It is a semi problem however for people who work crummy jobs (most people) who cant drink café con leche every hour while nibbling on OJ and reggiano as they please. Anyone trying to eat meals will have a hard time eating enough calories without starch, so then they eat starch and have a lot of problems with it. but trying to "make up" calories at the end of a long work day with a quart of OJ and a quart of milk is a definite no go, at least for me
 

tallglass13

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So none of you guys have heard his recent interviews? Not surprised being that he's been doing so many. Please try to find all of them they are becoming more intriguing and surprising. For 1, someone had posted that he recommended up to 30% fat. However in one of the interviews recently he stated 15% fat or less is best. So the Op that asked that question via email, got the answer he was looking for ...which was what is the "most" fat a person should eat. But optimally, it seems Ray thinks under 15%.
 

RealNeat

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So none of you guys have heard his recent interviews? Not surprised being that he's been doing so many. Please try to find all of them they are becoming more intriguing and surprising. For 1, someone had posted that he recommended up to 30% fat. However in one of the interviews recently he stated 15% fat or less is best. So the Op that asked that question via email, got the answer he was looking for ...which was what is the "most" fat a person should eat. But optimally, it seems Ray thinks under 15%.
Context matters. I listen to every one of his interviews, depending on the situation he recommends more or less. Optimally he does consider lower fat to be better.
 

gaze

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Eating a 15% fat low starch diet in America is basically impossible , which is why Ray doesn’t actively recommend the “optimal” especially if your juicing oranges as the main source of carbs. Finding 20-30 ripe oranges to juice everyday is basically impossible, expensive, and unsustainable. Of course store bought OJ isn’t the worst thing in the world
If only we had fruit stands on every corner with ripe fruit like most other countries...
 

Maljam

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So none of you guys have heard his recent interviews? Not surprised being that he's been doing so many. Please try to find all of them they are becoming more intriguing and surprising. For 1, someone had posted that he recommended up to 30% fat. However in one of the interviews recently he stated 15% fat or less is best. So the Op that asked that question via email, got the answer he was looking for ...which was what is the "most" fat a person should eat. But optimally, it seems Ray thinks under 15%.

Except I wasn't asking what was the most fat to eat at all.

What I asked was:
I wondered roughly what percentage of your daily calories come from fat, do you know? Or what percentage would you recommend most people consume coming from the common saturated fat sources?

Ray has no idea if I "wanted" him to say low fat, high fat, zero fat.

If you are new to Peat you should know he often has contradictory answers when being asked the same questions, this isn't something new and results is never ending arguments.

What was the context of the question asked when he said 15%?
 

tallglass13

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It is a new Patrick timpone interview streamed 2 weeks ago. It's called Freedom and play , part 2. At 25:42, is where he states to keep fat as low as possible around 15%. And at around 25:00, is where he's talking about getting all your energy from 100% carbohydrate. The context is how to get pufa of out of your body and to make your brain make more mead acid to increase the metabolic rate like a baby's brain.
 

Maljam

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It is a new Patrick timpone interview streamed 2 weeks ago. It's called Freedom and play , part 2. At 25:42, is where he states to keep fat as low as possible around 15%. And at around 25:00, is where he's talking about getting all your energy from 100% carbohydrate. The context is how to get pufa of out of your body and to make your brain make more mead acid to increase the metabolic rate like a baby's brain.

So the context for your posts was the removal of PUFA from the body (which can mean temporary restrictions of certain things and more extreme methods) and the creation of the fabled mead acid. All I simply asked was what would he recommend most people eat, yours was talking about more specialised conditions.

Ironically, you are the one taking his words out of context. Your post on here you said he said 100% carbohydrate was best. Best for what? For removing PUFA and creating mead acid. You know Peat himself doesnt eat 100% carbohydrate diet?
 
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Maljam

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Holy ***t @tallglass13 so I just listened to the Timpone clip, at 26 minutes after Peat says your quote, he asks Peat, that would be for someone with a PUFA overload right? For someone with not much PUFAs they could eat more fat? Peat agrees... did you deliberately not include this important clarification when posting your proof of what Peat says? You are taking his words out of context to, for some reason, push your low fat diet, which is exactly what you accused me of doing.
 

Jessie

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WestsidePUFA had a really good excerpt on his YT channel from one of Ray's interviews. Someone called in and asked him a question about saturated fat vs sugar, and which one was better for the purposes of maximizing longevity. Ray basically told him to eat "as much sugar or starch as possible, and keep fats low."

Unfortunately Westside deleted his YT channel, and I don't know which interview that was from. But I found this to be particularly interesting, because Ray is essentially saying carbohydrates, of any kind, trump dietary fats of any kind. Ray is often portrayed as a anti-starch advocate, but if we take what he says at face value here, both sugar AND starch is better then saturated fat (this is also probably why WestsidePUFA posted that clip, he was always the big pro-starch advocated in the community).

Ray's view seems to be we can make saturated fats from glucose, so there's no need to lower our CO2 retention by eating high amounts of them. Also, with the exception of making SFAs from glucose, there's no such thing as "pure saturated fat." Coconut oil, butter, beef, lamb, etc. all have some PUFA in them as well. And eating large amounts of them will result in PUFA accumulation over the subject's lifetime. He has made this point a few times as well.
 

tallglass13

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Holy ***t @tallglass13 so I just listened to the Timpone clip, at 26 minutes after Peat says your quote, he asks Peat, that would be for someone with a PUFA overload right? For someone with not much PUFAs they could eat more fat? Peat agrees... did you deliberately not include this important clarification when posting your proof of what Peat says? You are taking his words out of context to, for some reason, push your low fat diet, which is exactly what you accused me of doing.
Hey man, watch your tone. I was only trying to add information to this thread, not trying to prove anybody wrong. But you got to watch your tone with me.
 

tallglass13

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Anybody could eat more fat if they want to. This is about being optimal, and who doesn't have a pufa overload. Almost everyone does unless you're perfect. Every food has pufa even coconut oil.
 

tallglass13

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WestsidePUFA had a really good excerpt on his YT channel from one of Ray's interviews. Someone called in and asked him a question about saturated fat vs sugar, and which one was better for the purposes of maximizing longevity. Ray basically told him to eat "as much sugar or starch as possible, and keep fats low."

Unfortunately Westside deleted his YT channel, and I don't know which interview that was from. But I found this to be particularly interesting, because Ray is essentially saying carbohydrates, of any kind, trump dietary fats of any kind. Ray is often portrayed as a anti-starch advocate, but if we take what he says at face value here, both sugar AND starch is better then saturated fat (this is also probably why WestsidePUFA posted that clip, he was always the big pro-starch advocated in the community).

Ray's view seems to be we can make saturated fats from glucose, so there's no need to lower our CO2 retention by eating high amounts of them. Also, with the exception of making SFAs from glucose, there's no such thing as "pure saturated fat." Coconut oil, butter, beef, lamb, etc. all have some PUFA in them as well. And eating large amounts of them will result in PUFA accumulation over the subject's lifetime. He has made this point a few times as well.
Exactly the point I was trying to make.
 

tallglass13

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@Maljam, also I never quoted Peat. You did not see quotation marks in my post , nor did I say it was verbatim . I just paraphrased and then I sent you guys the information to figure it out.
 
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