Hair Loss: Hormones Or Genetics?

[Deleted member 5487]

Yes. But I think that other factors are very important; for me gelatin makes a big difference as well. At the time I started K2 I was already consuming gelatin semi regularly.

Alright thanks for the reply

I Will order some, do you apply the thorne one to the scalp?

Both my father and I have massive skulls his is receeded like 4 inchs but has kept his widows peak somehow it connects to the crown at age 55. Mine is back two inchs or so. I don't want it to progress any further, my widows peak is robust so there is no diffusion.

Any other recommendations.

 

[nbznj]

Just read the whole thread. Everyone has theory's. I woud need two shopping carts at the local vitamin shop to follow everyones opinions.

Has anyone cut through the bull**** and actually know what works.

I am thinking about Biotin, and then a niacinamide/aspirin/caffeine topical+ Massage

Anything else I should add?

yeah that's funny, just as my "random quote of the day" on the side of the website is:
For many years, I have been seeing more symptoms relieved by stopping all the chemical supplements, than by using them - Ray Peat

Whole food:
If you're trying to keep things minimal, avoid sources of prostaglandins (arachidonic acid is the main precursor) and any inflammatory food. The most obvious ones being additives, chemicals, and so on. I'd limit muscle meat, I would avoid allergenic proteins such as pasteurized dairy, grains. Keep in mind hair follicles require a lot of energy so don't eat a deficit, stay warm and eat plenty of easily absorbed sources of glucose. Give the liver a break eating typically liver-friendly foods. Eat the whole animal, fruits, veggies, roots/tubers. That's the "supplement-free" part

Vitamins/Minerals:
Seems to me that in the context of low to no PUFA no vitamin E is needed. If you eat your liver no vitamin A is needed. This leaves D3 and K2; they often come together which is nice. A solid option is to get pure emu oil and nizoral, apply on the scalp for an hour or so before doing a shampoo with either H&S or Selsun. Lukewarm water, no hot blow drying, gentle combing. There again, I think no conditioner full of chemicals should be used.

I'd use magnesium oil which is sometimes presented as a deodorant. Why not, that's less chemicals on one side, critical well absorbed boost of a mineral on another side.

The only true supplement I view as useful after all of this being done is Taurine, 2-3g a day seems sufficient. I'd consider biotin too from the Nourishhair multi, when I'm in the US

so TLDR; clean Peaty diet, emu oil, nizoral, lukewarm water, magnesium oil, taurine, biotin. Discard anything full of chemicals

 

[lvysaur]

I just take thorne's by mouth. I've never applied anything to my skin yet, but according to most here, it should still be effective.

 

[LukeL]

I just take thorne's by mouth. I've never applied anything to my skin yet, but according to most here, it should still be effective.

What dose of K are you using currently?

 

[lvysaur]

What dose of K are you using currently?

2 mg every couple days.

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

Then why do the famous 5-ar-deficient Guevedoces from the Dominican Republic keep their hair completely (while also suffering higher rates of prostate cancer)? And why don't women experience anywhere near the same degree of male pattern hair loss as men?

I'm not trying to say that "DHT is bad", or that serum levels of DHT are indicative of hair loss, or that estrogen doesn't cause hair loss downstream, but the evidence is quite good that DHT is a necessary but not sufficient condition to experience hair loss, at least in some people.

The 5-ar deficient also had no testosterone, and hence no estrogen so again you prove the point, estrogen is a part of hair loss.

Women produce progesterone which is protective against hair loss. In addition, I believe they have lower cortisol levels compared to males.

 

[lvysaur]

The 5-ar deficient also had no testosterone, and hence no estrogen

Both of those statements are false.

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

Both of those statements are false.

..Their balls were chopped off but OK..

 

[lampofred]

I think the biggest culprit in male hair loss is DHEA. I'm not sure if it's DHEA turning into androgens in the skin or if its DHEA turning into estrogens that causes the problem, but I pretty strongly think the root cause is excess DHEA, which is promoted mainly by estrogen, and anything that increases prolactin (listening to music, orgasming, basically all pleasure increases prolactin) increases estrogen and DHEA even though it lowers cortisol. This might be why people in less developed countries and homeless people without access to much luxury have much less hair loss. Estrogen increases DHEA production and DHEA turns into estrogen in a positive feedback loop. Caffeine works because it strongly opposes DHEA and increases cortisol, which breaks the estrogen-DHEA feedback loop, as does keeping dopamine high/serotonin low. Progesterone also breaks this loop. Peat even says DHEA is not good to take if you have low progesterone or are under stress.

Also, I suspect a lot of middle aged guys have more estrogen than women honestly...

 

[lvysaur]

..Their balls were chopped off but OK..

Also a false statement.

 

[Deleted member 5487]

I think the biggest culprit in male hair loss is DHEA. I'm not sure if it's DHEA turning into androgens in the skin or if its DHEA turning into estrogens that causes the problem, but I pretty strongly think the root cause is excess DHEA, which is promoted mainly by estrogen, and anything that increases prolactin (listening to music, orgasming, basically all pleasure increases prolactin) increases estrogen and DHEA even though it lowers cortisol. This might be why people in less developed countries and homeless people without access to much luxury have much less hair loss. Estrogen increases DHEA production and DHEA turns into estrogen in a positive feedback loop. Caffeine works because it strongly opposes DHEA and increases cortisol, which breaks the estrogen-DHEA feedback loop, as does keeping dopamine high/serotonin low. Progesterone also breaks this loop. Peat even says DHEA is not good to take if you have low progesterone or are under stress.

Also, I suspect a lot of middle aged guys have more estrogen than women honestly...

Intresting. So caffeine and progesterone?
Can preg convert to DHEA as it gives me hair loss, as does niacinamide, cypro, aspirin. Pretty much all the things that lower stress hormones. Nasty cycle.

 

[Hairlosssucks]

I think the biggest culprit in male hair loss is DHEA. I'm not sure if it's DHEA turning into androgens in the skin or if its DHEA turning into estrogens that causes the problem, but I pretty strongly think the root cause is excess DHEA, which is promoted mainly by estrogen, and anything that increases prolactin (listening to music, orgasming, basically all pleasure increases prolactin) increases estrogen and DHEA even though it lowers cortisol. This might be why people in less developed countries and homeless people without access to much luxury have much less hair loss. Estrogen increases DHEA production and DHEA turns into estrogen in a positive feedback loop. Caffeine works because it strongly opposes DHEA and increases cortisol, which breaks the estrogen-DHEA feedback loop, as does keeping dopamine high/serotonin low. Progesterone also breaks this loop. Peat even says DHEA is not good to take if you have low progesterone or are under stress.

Also, I suspect a lot of middle aged guys have more estrogen than women honestly...

I think you’re 100% correct here, i just read an article about this, western society is full of xeno-estrogens, stressors and oestrogen dominance is occurring much earlier than it should as an old man. Hence why diseases like metabolic syndrome and diabetes are much more common and baldness etc. My hair loss definitely coincided with weight gain and extreme hairy ness basically old man look.

This basically leads to a decrease in progesterone in males. I also read to overcome oestrogen dominance you need to supplement progesterone but not low amounts otherwise it just turns into oestrogen consistently, that’s probably why the cream worked for you.

Progesterone the youth “mother” hormone needs to become dominant again instead of oestrogen.

 

[BestSinceDAYONE]

I think you’re 100% correct here, i just read an article about this, western society is full of xeno-estrogens, stressors and oestrogen dominance is occurring much earlier than it should as an old man. Hence why diseases like metabolic syndrome and diabetes are much more common and baldness etc. My hair loss definitely coincided with weight gain and extreme hairy ness basically old man look.

This basically leads to a decrease in progesterone in males. I also read to overcome oestrogen dominance you need to supplement progesterone but not low amounts otherwise it just turns into oestrogen consistently, that’s probably why the cream worked for you.

Progesterone the youth “mother” hormone needs to become dominant again instead of oestrogen.

I disagree. I still think cortisol is the main factor and this leads to all the downstream effects that lead to hair loss (estrogen, and DHT). They have always said stress causes hair loss.

Cortisol triggers estrogen production through increased activity of the aromatase enzyme.

Comparison of the effect of cortisol on aromatase activity and androgen metabolism in two human fibroblast cell lines derived from the same individ... - PubMed - NCBI
Cortisol induces aromatase expression in human placental syncytiotrophoblasts through the cAMP/Sp1 pathway. - PubMed - NCBI

Males have higher cortisol levels than females.

Consistent sex differences in cortisol responses to psychological stress. - PubMed - NCBI

My theory is then, the male body produces DHT to antagonize estrogen. Which causes hair loss...

The question is why don't women lose hair? They only really do in post menopause when their progesterone levels are in the same range as males.

Progesterone antagonizes 5-AR

GID.info | Gender Identity Disorder Information

 

[Iron Man]

I also wonder about high estrogen in men... I have the natural progesterone cream and rub it on, but how much is the recommended amount?

 

[Motif]

[QUOTE="Iron Man, post: 341573, member: 2636"I have the natural progesterone cream and rub it on, but how much is the recommended amount?[/QUOTE]



I wonder about that too

 

[golder]

This was a great thread with some sound ideas - lets get it started up again

 

[Deleted member 5487]

My Hair is the best it's been in 5 years with Ray peat. No thinning, just a normal 1.5NW

It's entirely based on cortisol. Everyone with good hair has low cortisol.

Cortisol=>Aromatization=> T converts to estrogen, DHT raises to counteract estrogen. Prolactin etc.

Cortsol is the king of all.

Cortisol goes up with age, directly. This is the ultimate cause of hairloss. Cortisol mainly raises due to metabolic acidosis since the kidney cannot keep up after 22-25. It also goes up to a lack of glucose, from simple boiled starchs.

First you need to be net alkaline. I use cooked Spinach and Organic greens powders. These are very alkaline
Then you need glucose
Then you need calcium/Phophorus ratio in check
Then you need protein

I actually put in a order last week to check my AC, since it was on 68 and I was boiling with heat. AC was perfectly fine.

First time I've actually felt HOT and my body is leaning down as well,

Alkaline Baseline Diet with plenty of glucose and lowered Anti-Thyroid Amminos Like trytophan. I use glycine and cheese to fight the amminos in Meat/eggs.

Breakfast.
Greens Powder 1 Scoop
Golden Potatos Boiled
Eggs 3
Glycine 2G taken about 30mins after.
Cheese 2-3oz

Lunch
Ground Beef 90/10. 30g
Wilted Spinach
White Rice
Glycine 2G
Cheese 2-3 OZ

Dinner, Similar to Lunch.

Essentially

Glucose
Calcium
Protein

Like a bodybuilder diet with more carbs, less meat, and more Vegtables/Greens/Calcium.

Give this a shot, report back.

@Elphanto used Peas and broccli to get protein and keep net alkaline. However most his recovery he got while eating lean protein.
You have to counteract the acid breakdown of meat with greens.

 

[thisoldtown1978]

My Hair is the best it's been in 5 years with Ray peat. No thinning, just a normal 1.5NW

It's entirely based on cortisol. Everyone with good hair has low cortisol.

Cortisol=>Aromatization=> T converts to estrogen, DHT raises to counteract estrogen. Prolactin etc.

Cortsol is the king of all.

Cortisol goes up with age, directly. This is the ultimate cause of hairloss. Cortisol mainly raises due to metabolic acidosis since the kidney cannot keep up after 22-25. It also goes up to a lack of glucose, from simple boiled starchs.

First you need to be net alkaline. I use cooked Spinach and Organic greens powders. These are very alkaline
Then you need glucose
Then you need calcium/Phophorus ratio in check
Then you need protein

I actually put in a order last week to check my AC, since it was on 68 and I was boiling with heat. AC was perfectly fine.

First time I've actually felt HOT and my body is leaning down as well,

Alkaline Baseline Diet with plenty of glucose and lowered Anti-Thyroid Amminos Like trytophan. I use glycine and cheese to fight the amminos in Meat/eggs.

Breakfast.
Greens Powder 1 Scoop
Golden Potatos Boiled
Eggs 3
Glycine 2G taken about 30mins after.
Cheese 2-3oz

Lunch
Ground Beef 90/10. 30g
Wilted Spinach
White Rice
Glycine 2G
Cheese 2-3 OZ

Dinner, Similar to Lunch.

Essentially

Glucose
Calcium
Protein

Like a bodybuilder diet with more carbs, less meat, and more Vegtables/Greens/Calcium.

Give this a shot, report back.

@Elphanto used Peas and broccli to get protein and keep net alkaline. However most his recovery he got while eating lean protein.
You have to counteract the acid breakdown of meat with greens.

Thanks Amarsh. Are you still exercising?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Thanks Amarsh. Are you still exercising?

Yeah. Very important for blood/lympth flow. The physical appearance of those of who don't exercise and those who do is significant due to autophagy and blood flow.

The stereotypical "white washed" or "washed up" look that hits both sexes around 25-30 can be almost reversed by net alkalinity Alkaline Diets(fruits/vegtables), and working out. Saunas are great to.

Seen here. You must EAT Alkaline, but also Exhale Excess CO2 so the body can create more CO2 through Proper Oxidation=High Metabolism

Fruit, Vegtables, Diary, potatos are all better than Grains, Rice, Meats.


Walking/Sprints>Jogging
Heavy Low Rep Lifts>High rep.

We want either very low impact. Walking/Hiking
Or short and Intense. Sprinting.

I walk alot, and keep my rep range between 2-4.