Hair Loss: Hormones Or Genetics?

[RedStaR]

I think its pretty clear genetics determines the threshold for metabolism, scalp bloodflow and hormonal influence to cause hair loss.

My reasonable brain says its not dht either because i was a freakin hornball since puberty, tried to bang every girl i met in additon to fapping.

Now both male sides have hair loss in my family. Im not a drinker(i had my episodes on college but im not big on it), no smoking no drugs.

***A data point - i had a slowly maturing hairline at 28-29, basically just the windows peak leveling out maybe creeping back a TINY bit. 175lbs lean, vascular, chronic gym dude etc..i cared so little about nutrition only calories. Stressful(physically) job, emotional stressfrom life etc.

I turn 30, ive reduced my stress, changed careers, dumped the toxicity from my life, still on probably a bit too much caffiene daily, food no better(maybe a tiny bit). I am however having a lot of sex and still gyming 3 hours per day(tons of volume, like 30 sets per body part for like 2-3 years) I do one more short cut for the beach in summer BOOM, massive shed, up to 100 hairs a day. Thinning rapidly, im literally about to pull the trigger on fin - decide no effing way, f that horrible stuff.

Long story short, i discover DT, begin massage my hair line RECOVERS(to better than it was in my 20s) but im still shedding - the catch here is that im shedding thick hair, nothing miniaturized. So basically im regrowing hair(specifically replacing what was likely just shed), it turns terminal, then falls out at lengths of 1 to 2 inches. All of the hair has a taper, which tells me my scalp just cant keep it IN anagen phase for any extended lenth, likely hormones saying "nope"

Well i started getting cold, feeling like ***t, lots of allergy type symptoms, i quit the gym cold turkey for 6 months, ate real actual food, and while it took 6 months my hair shed cut in half, maybe 65 percent.

8 weeks ago i reintroded the gym(twice a week for an hour each)...now im shedding heavier again.

Im here for input, but certainly can say that there is no way its just one thing.

Im 14 months in this battle and i swear it feels like im "almost there" but i just cant figure it out yet. Been hybrid peating since januaryish

Inflammation.

 

[sladerunner69]

RedStar is correct. You can crash your estrogen to dangerously low levels and still lose your hair. Some steroids cause estrogen deficiency (masteron, etc.) like dht does. Still hairloss occcurs, sometimes more rapidly.

Also what about severely overweight mean? They have more aromatase and evidently more estrogen, yet they tend to have more hair than skinny men. Fat men also have more of the enzyme that breaks down dht to "inactive metabolites".

When estrogen is supressed and thyroid cannot function correctly, other stress hormones move in to compensate and the hairloss increases.

 

[REOSIRENS]

German study I read was a PDF file I read 3 years ago ... I am trying to find it

But there are some other studies that show how thyroid is so important for hair growth...

Thyroid hormones directly alter human hair follicle functions: anagen prolongation and stimulation of both hair matrix keratinocyte proliferation a... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[REOSIRENS]

Hypothalamic-pituitary-thyroid axis hormones stimulate mitochondrial function and biogenesis in human hair follicles. - PubMed - NCBI

"
Thyroid hormones regulate mitochondrial functioning. Triiodothyronine (T3) in particular is considered one of the major regulators of mitochondrial activity stimulating mitochondrial biogenesis (the birth of new mitochondria) both directly (genomic), indirectly (non-genomic) and epigenetically.
T3 is responsible for increasing cellular heat production and oxygen consumption, core activities of mitochondrial metabolism"

 

[REOSIRENS]

Thyroid hormones are direct modulators of human hair follicle ... - Universität zu Lübeck

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...LDpkQFgg8MAM&usg=AOvVaw2lwtjJ7jgjV_BESVtGLjE4

 

[REOSIRENS]

I can't find any mentions of Riboflavin stopping hairloss, is this derived from your experience?

People experience...they say it stops or slows down

 

[Luckytype]

One explanation for why extremely low body fat percentages can lead to hairloss is a deficiency in the enzyme that breaks down dht, as it sits in fatty tissue like aromatase. Not sure if it is relevant to women but it is a possibility. Obviously there are non-hormonal reasons for hair loss..

see and with this i assumed that it was a pure energy balance thing. I was literally stage ready(no libido, lack of occasion rise), like an onion one summer. No hair issues at all. A couple years later life itself improves tremendously and im shedding non stop

 

[Luckytype]

For whatever its worth too, ive read more than once of people increasing theirbshedding bu isolating ribo and taking it. Couldve been pure coincidence but i dont know

 

[Luckytype]

Inflammation.

Systemic?

I tried pming you by the way, if you have a moment

 

[REOSIRENS]

Some form of Temporal arteritis reduces blood flow to scalp. This erodes the epidermal soil on the mpb scalp until growing hair is like trying to grow grass on a rockpile.

Triiodothyronine restores temporal blood circulation

 

[RedStaR]

Systemic?

I tried pming you by the way, if you have a moment

I got none.

Just to be clear, this is more complicated than you think.

There are some considerations to take into account

1) I'm talking specifically about AGA
2) AGA has probably developed as a health indicator for soft tissue calcification (and therefore, heart health)
3) Only the scalp, along with systemic calcification/inflammation, are affected, this does not happen to other hair regions in the body

There is a mechanical mechanism involved in AGA, and it is a large part of how AGA develops. Now, you can always lower systemic inflammation, usually to normal levels would suffice. But in other cases, you can have perfectly normal systemic health, but high inflammation on the scalp.

Here is a good paper on the mechanical stress effects of AGA.

Involvement of Mechanical Stress in Androgenetic Alopecia

 

[GAF]

Triiodothyronine restores temporal blood circulation

Ok. I will rub T3 on my temples for a few months and see if it works. It does not work for me with oral or forearm application.

 

[REOSIRENS]

"By suppressing the thyroid and stimulating the pituitary's secretion
of prolactin, estrogen can have a variety of complex effects on hair growth;
usually, thinning of the hair on the head is a consequence of
hypothyroidism. In both men and women, loss of hair from the scalp is
associated with low thyroid, but "male pattern baldness" has been held to
be produced by a male hormone; but even the male hormones can be
turned into estrogen by enzymes in the skin, and experiments show that it
is estrogen which causes the hair follicle to become inactive, while an
estrogen-blacker can stimulate the renewal of hair. (R. C. Smart, et al.,
Proc. Nail. Acad. of Sciences, Oct. 29, 1996.)"

From pms to menopause book
Dr Raymond Peat

 

[DavePalumbo]

Why do menopausal women exhibit male sex characteristics (facial hair growth, voice, etc.) AND male pattern baldness in some cases. Menopause causes a serious deficiency of estrogen in women.


I can't remember if I've said it already but homosexual men have high estrogenic activity and they very often have hairloss and increased body hair. So this to me SUGGESTS that estrogen may potentially have such effects but it still does not make sense to me.

We know that women with complete androgen insensitivity (missing androgen receptors) have extremely high estrogen levels and sparse to no body hair (except the top of the head), no hairloss, no deepening of the voice, low to nonexistent libido, etc.

 

[REOSIRENS]

Why do menopausal women exhibit male sex characteristics (facial hair growth, voice, etc.) AND male pattern baldness in some cases. Menopause causes a serious deficiency of estrogen in women.


I can't remember if I've said it already but homosexual men have high estrogenic activity and they very often have hairloss and increased body hair. So this to me SUGGESTS that estrogen may potentially have such effects but it still does not make sense to me.

We know that women with complete androgen insensitivity (missing androgen receptors) have extremely high estrogen levels and sparse to no body hair (except the top of the head), no hairloss, no deepening of the voice, low to nonexistent libido, etc.

Women have high Progesterone and Progesterone is one of the most powerful aromatase inhibitors... Men have more testosterone available for aromatization... In menopause women have an increase of estrogen but still has more Progesterone than men to protect them against estrogen...men mechanism of protection(only when thyroid is not available or working properly) against/estrogen is by increasing dht...but high blood levels of dht without Triiodothyronine can increase hair loss... transgender people save hair by using drugs that increase estrogen but at same time they mimic some of Progesterone actions...so again Progesterone plays a role


PS: menopause means very high estrogen not deficient... menopause means lower levels of Progesterone

Progesterone have some of t3 actions


Progesterone/Triiodothyronine/C02 they are all anti estrogen and they all help with hair growth and work in synergy

 

[DavePalumbo]

Women have high Progesterone and Progesterone is one of the most powerful aromatase inhibitors... Men have more testosterone available for aromatization... In menopause women have an increase of estrogen but still has more Progesterone than men to protect them against estrogen...men mechanism of protection(only when thyroid is not available or working properly) against/estrogen is by increasing dht...but high blood levels of dht without Triiodothyronine can increase hair loss... transgender people save hair by using drugs that increase estrogen but at same time they mimic some of Progesterone actions...so again Progesterone plays a role


PS: menopause means very high estrogen not deficient... menopause means lower levels of Progesterone

Progesterone have some of t3 actions


Progesterone/Triiodothyronine/C02 they are all anti estrogen and they all help with hair growth and work in synergy

Nonsense! Menopause is 100% an estrogen deficiency. It is not much an issue of lacking progesterone. The progesterone is mainly prescribed to reduce the potential risks of estrogen.

All the symptoms of menopause 100% match an estrogen deficiency. Taking an aromatase inhibitor as a man can CAUSE all menopause symptoms (except of course the dry vagina and such).
Hot flashes, anxiety, insomnia and poor sleep quality, depression, etc., is exactly what happens when you lack estrogen whether you are a man or a woman.

 

[REOSIRENS]

Nonsense! Menopause is 100% an estrogen deficiency. It is not much an issue of lacking progesterone. The progesterone is mainly prescribed to reduce the potential risks of estrogen.

All the symptoms of menopause 100% match an estrogen deficiency. Taking an aromatase inhibitor as a man can CAUSE all menopause symptoms (except of course the dry vagina and such).
Hot flashes, anxiety, insomnia and poor sleep quality, depression, etc., is exactly what happens when you lack estrogen whether you are a man or a woman.

Man who take aromatase inhibitors have low testosterone...and most aromatase inhibitors people take are estrogenic at same time(herbs and drugs)...not Progesterone...that's why most people suffer severe side effects ...

Second if you have low levels of testosterone and dhea and use Progesterone/Triiodothyronine then you will have some side effects because they work by using testosterone/dhea to promote physiological healthy stability

Estrogen clearly causes depression even mainstream pharmaceutical media are now admitting ... And aging is related to estrogen...

Even women are starting to run away from estrogenic contraceptives and other estrogenic drugs ...

Have you checked news of estrogenic drugs increasing suicide risk?

Do you really study Dr Raymond Peat work?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Vitamin K2 was the saving grace for my hair and general health, and I've assumed that hair loss was largely dependent on some type of soft tissue calcification. Even before taking K, whenever I saw short-lived increases in hair, I also experienced recession of the occipital bun.

If you have male pattern baldness AND a narrow jaw/large gonial jaw angle/prominent occipital protuberance, I think occasional vitamin K2 supplementation is likely to be the most important and immediately beneficial therapy you can administer.

Interesting. Do you still stand by this?

 

[Deleted member 5487]

Just read the whole thread. Everyone has theory's. I woud need two shopping carts at the local vitamin shop to follow everyones opinions.

Has anyone cut through the theories and actually know what works.

I am thinking about Biotin, and then a niacinamide/aspirin/caffeine topical+ Massage

Anything else I should add?

 

[lvysaur]

Interesting. Do you still stand by this?

Yes. But I think that other factors are very important; for me gelatin makes a big difference as well. At the time I started K2 I was already consuming gelatin semi regularly.