Hair Loss: Hormones Or Genetics?

[sladerunner69]

Balding is caused by Hair Elves who visit you in the middle of the night and cause your growth cycles to terminate.

Could i ask you for a study to support this assertion???

 

[Scenes]

Is masturbation and sex not the same?

The nofap crowd aren't sure. The Taoist theory is that males lose life force or energy every time they ejaculate. Females don't have this problem but they are capable of balancing out our energy loss through sexual intercourse.

As long as ejaculation always occurs with some sort of trade off with female energy, we are ok...or so the theory goes.

Nofap has a fairly large following online with loads of anecdotal evidence but scientifically they fumble around (like we do I suppose) trying to explain it with testosterone increase/prolactin or dht decrease.

There's also plenty of guys who say they stopped fapping and haven't seen regrowth, but you'd think there must be something going on to have gained so much momentum.

 

[Thoushant]

About the MK-4: It inhibits BMP-2 synthesized from fat cells, which have hair inhibiting effects.

But I also believe there is something to calicfication. This might be intersting for @Ivysaur and others who've noticed bone changes following peat.
Comprehensive Review Cranial Mechanics Darlene Myles D.O. Block ppt download
I think it's related somehow to osteopathy theory, which ofcourse is completely false(according to wikipedia anyways , )
Anyways: the skull is breathable, duramater links sacrum bone to skull bones. Spine flex/ext affects SBS joint. SBS flexion: flared temporalis, protruding frontal sinuses, flat parietal bones
SBS extension(If you think about it, this is a fall of posture): temporal arcs internaly rotate, less visible frontal sinuses, sharp parietal sutures.

So, not that I perscribe completely to osteopathy, but a few years of different pressure (stuck in extension) on the skull sutures might give rise to bad inflammation. THe sutures are supposedely fused, but even mainstream medicine acknowledges there is still joint activity, on the inner side of the skull, right where duramater attaches.
So either the excessive alternated forces on the sutures cuases growth of bones which create irritation on periostium or galea, or metabolic factors from joint loading is affecting growth of hair.
Intersting is: Temporal bone is in a sliding joint with parital, so exsessive forces would just move them further away / not affect growth of area.
Occipital and parital suture is also in a place, where forces(torsion I think) aren't that great either.
Personal experience: I have tried for a long time to work on this, what finally solved in my posture is flexing my sacrum back(through the legs) and then while laying in bed, just a slight(barely mms, it's so faint, that it would fall in emotional body tone, than anything else) tilt back/up of head: gives me a breezy sensation and heartbeat at the temporal artery.

 

[johnwester130]

I have developed that "skull ridge". Is it hard calcium stuck to the top of my skull? It doesn't seem to be attached to the skin. I liked the idea of topical magnesium.

I was going to try topical progesterone in vodka. That was going to be my 2x/daily 6 month routine but apparently it's illegal to sell progesterone powder to individuals for personal use. *************. I'd still like to get my hands on some, I just can't find it.

Simply Progesterone Clear serum

 

[Scenes]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but I was PM'ing @Benjamin Button (the guy who posted the best regrowth I've ever seen a few pages back) about his phenomenal hair regrowth and how much of it he attributed to peat based principles.

He initially said that the majority of his regrowth came while on thyroid and heaps of sugar, but now he has retracted that and doesn't believe the classic peat diet is worthwhile. I asked him to do this himself as it's completely unfair to have that overwhelmingly positive 'you can regrow hair just follow peat' message being broadcast if it's not true - he told me to feel free to share it.

He's now attributing his regrowth to loads of supplements (minerals/vitamins/efa) and scalp massage to break down calcification...stuff that guys have been doing for years.

The most poignant thing he said though for me was that he tried Haidut's Androsterone for 3 weeks and lost all his hair again.

I understand that the process of hair regrowth is tumultuous and that newly grown hair is fragile, but I think we need to stop denying the obvious connection between DHT or DHT promoting substances and hair loss for the majority of guys.

There seems to clearly be something genetic going on that makes DHT/Androgens affect hair negatively for some people whilst potentially helping others. What that is we have no idea...

I know this isn't news to the majority of hair loss sufferers, but this forum is so pro-DHT which makes no sense from a hair loss/regrowth perspective. Too bad the stuff makes us feel so good otherwise!

 

[tallglass13]

As Haidut wrote before, that he believes it is delta 5a androstandiol, that causes balding...and finasteride blocks this hormone just as it does DHT. ..so it may not be DHT ,but androstandiol that is more of the culprit. . Effect of Finasteride on Serum Androstenedione and Risk of Prostate Cancer within the Prostate Cancer Prevention Trial: Differential Effect on High and Low Grade Disease

 

[Pet Peeve]

I was working in a horrible office environment with tube lighting and insane amounts of stress. I tried to limit sugar to be healthier. I had been smoking a pack of cigarettes for years and my hair was ok in this office job until I stopped nicotine. I stopped smoking for six months while using electronic cigarettes before I quit nicotine completely. A couple of months after quitting nicotine my hairline visibly receded and I started to get a lot of comments that I was going bald on the crown. I was constantly drunk because I was so stressed out without the cigarettes. This was two and a half years ago. I quit my job and started smoking again and eating lots of sugar. The hairloss didnt progress further and even though my hairline hasnt recovered completely it's also much better, like not as bad as before. I don't get any balding comments anymore. Would like to know exactly what happened chemically there.

 

[brix]

Nicotine increases Co2 which helps with blood flow to the scalp. Could be that. Try bag breathing if you don't want to smoke.

 

[Sheik]

Could i ask you for a study to support this assertion???

I seent it.

 

[sladerunner69]

I seent it.

Sorry, I did not recieve any PM's.

 

[Sheik]

Sorry, I did not recieve any PM's.

Seent! I seent it!

 

[REOSIRENS]

It is not only dehydroepiandrosterone that is elevated in bald men...but as well cholesterol...

" By 1936, it was clear that hypercholesterolemia in humans and other animals was caused by hypothyroidism, and that hypothyroidism caused many diseases to develop, including cardiovascular disease and cancer. There was already more reason at that time to think that the increased cholesterol was a protective adaptation than to think that it was maladaptive."

these sentences brought me to mind the all DHT theory... just because DHT is high so it is the reason for baldness(same as just because hypothyroid people had high levels of cholesterol the reason of malfunction was cholesterol itself)...

Studies show that both are raised to protect you from short(and medium)-term malfunctions(stress)... many studies are clearly stating stress as the root cause of early baldness and not dehydroepiandrosterone and cholesterol ... they(DHT cholesterol) are elevated as protection for stress... baldness should be a subject to better understand stress in the context of physiological autoimmunity exacerbated with chronic stress



balancing the three(progesterone/pregnenolone/DHEA) main anti stress/aging hormones can help greatly... plus balanced T3 with T4 supplementation

 

[REOSIRENS]

"The consumption of manufactured foods, pollution of air and water, the use of lead in gasoline, cigarette smoking, increased medicalization and use of drugs, psychosocial and socioeconomic stress, and increased exposure to radiation--medical, military, and industrial--would be obvious things to consider, along with decreased intake of some protective nutrients, such as selenium, magnesium, and vitamins. "

Instead of only focusing on the singleness of some symptoms that comes with baldness we should pay attention to these words above...
Traveling around some European regions like Bavaria Alps and south France and I have to say that food quality is great... levels of economic stress are low and they use more natural(high-quality vitamins and herbal teas) things to heal than going to doctors and baldness levels are pretty low in comparison to industrialized regions....

Food allergens... Stress... and increased use of pharmaceutical medications are the recipes to early baldness


PS great number of my friends that went bald fast and early...were using some kind of pharmaceutical drug

 

[Dezertfox]

I don't get enough sunlight, have a desk job. Thought of using yellow light(It's pretty strong) on the lamp focused on head/body throughout the day to keep me warm (hypothyroid) and promote metabolism. Do you guys think it will help?

 

[ivy]

@Scenes, thanks for the input! Did Ben share any pictures? And a breakdown of his supplements?

 

[DavePalumbo]

Is it genetics or hormones? Well, that's a rather odd question because genetic mutations causes loss of androgen receptors in the scalp... so it's still hormones.
However, I've never seen an allegedly "high testosterone" black male lose his hair. I simply never have. But Semites (Jews and Arabs) can even lose their hair in their teenage years if their androgens are high enough.. so?
Clearly there are a lot of genetic mutations that causes us issues that other races do not have. But does it change the fact that it may still be hormonal?
Female hairloss is extraordinarily rare and almost always occurs after menopause (where their female hormones drop and male hormones increase. Dht synthesis LOCALLY in scalp and prostate increases with age in both men AND women).

 

[CLASH]

From my understanding/ experience/ opinion hairloss is a combination of hormones and genetics. But both are functions of the environment (the environment in my definition being everything in the organisms existence). To determine which is the cause (i.e. hormones or genetics), in my mind, is irrelevant. The reason I say this is because I think hairloss is an indication of a systemic problem. It is a symptom, a manifestation of a systemic problem that presents in the form of hairloss due to a genetic predisposition. All present diseases we see are manifestations or symptoms of the underlying metabolic state of the organism that present in the various forms of disease through genetic predisposition. The genetic predisposition are essentially the weakest links in the metabolic chain, that, when stressed too much, breakdown. Thus, hairloss is a symptoms in my opinion, treating it as the disease is a waste of time again in my opinion, and the reason that no one has found a cure or has been able to truly solve the problem is because most people are focused on trying to understand discrete mechanisms such as blocking the 5AR enzyme to block DHT. In reality DHT or some metabolite of DHT (discussed by haidut as perhaps an estrogenic variation) causes hairloss but it is not the cause of hairloss. The only reason to care about DHT is to back track the mechanism behind hairloss to find the underlying systemic cure. Drugs used to treat hairloss like ketoconozole, finasteride, spirinolactone, cyclosporin (discussed by travis on the forum) and minoxidil are clues into the underlying cause of hairloss.

Since, I am in some way refuting an entire hypothesis and providing an alternative train of thought I'd like to flesh out my entire opinion to perhaps give some more direction.

I believe hairloss is a systemic issue as I said before. I think it is caused by a general up regulation of the adrenal gland as whole leading to the production of glucocorticoids (cortisol), mineralocorticoids (aldosterone) and adrenal androgens (DHEA). The state of baldness is similar to cushings syndrome (Haidut and travis have both discussed this). The symptoms of cushing syndrome are:

"Symptoms include rapid weight gain, particularly of the trunk and face with sparing of the limbs (central obesity). Common signs include the growth of fat pads along the collarbone, on the back of the neck ("buffalo hump" or lipodystrophy), and on the face ("moon face"). Other symptoms include excess sweating, dilation of capillaries, thinning of the skin (which causes easy bruising and dryness, particularly the hands) and mucous membranes, purple or red striae (the weight gain in Cushing's syndrome stretches the skin, which is thin and weakened, causing it to hemorrhage) on the trunk, buttocks, arms, legs, or breasts, proximal muscle weakness (hips, shoulders), and hirsutism (facial male-pattern hair growth), baldness and/or extremely dry and brittle hair. In rare cases, Cushing's can cause hypocalcemia. The excess cortisol may also affect other endocrine systems and cause, for example, insomnia, inhibited aromatase, reduced libido, impotence in men, and amenorrhoea/oligomenorrheaand infertility in women due to elevations in androgens."
Cushing's syndrome - Wikipedia

As far as I'm concerned, a lot of these symptoms reflect the symptoms of many bald men/ balding men. Often bald men hold a bit of extra weight, have excess body hair, and may or may not have stretch marks. (When I started shedding I gained 30-40lbs, grew a beard, grew chest and belly hair, arm hair moved up my arm, my libido was through the roof and I got stretch marks on my shoulders, and groin. I started to have these symptoms when my parents began to get divorced, I was away at school pursuing 2 majors, I was eating 6-8 plantains a day (starch), I was powerlifting 4-6x a week (squat 300s, bench 300s, deadlift 400s so I wasn't taking it easy on myself in any way, I was actually hurting myself)). Obviously this is my personal situation, so you can see the bias but I also think it makes for good observation and correlation.

To further strengthen my obvious confirmation bias:
ketoconazole: glucocorticoid antagonist
spironolactone: mineralocorticoid and glucocorticoid antagonist
finasteride: 5AR inhibitor, DHT is unregulated by the production of adrenal androgens DHEA. Also, finasteride is a derivative of progesterone, which is a mineralocorticoid antagonist and very weak partial agonist of glucocorticoids (basically antagonistic property from my perspective)
minoxidil: increases blood flow to scalp?? (haven't worked this one out, but haven't really researched it)
cyclosporin: immunosuppressant (I'll get to this below)

With all this in mind, if adrenal up regulation is the cause of balding, the next question is how do you down regulate the adrenal gland. In order to know how to down regulate the adrenal gland you need to know what caused the up regulation in the first place. My hypothesis is that the up regulation is from 1) major stressors from life events, work etc. (haha obviously) and most importantly 2) some type of gut dysbiosis leading to a general up regulation of inflammation and immune response leading to increased adrenal activity and serotonin production that down regulates thyroid (this is why cyclosporin is helpful). This can be seen with this thread (I also, posted in this thread): Latest Hair Studies: Hairloss Is Caused By Immune Imbalance
As you can see in this new research T-reg cells (and if you search elsewhere, about 80% of your immune system) is dependent on the colonic flora. You can think of the colonic flora as your bodies own culturing dish of the environment to up regulate or down regulate the immune system.

(As a side note, I'd like to say that I think the general regulator of metabolism of the body is by far serotonin. No matter what supplement you take, unless you get your gut in order and thus serotonin (histamine, adrenalin, estrogen, and prolactin all go hand in hand with serotonin; at least gut produced serotonin), your thyroid/ metabolic health will not improve (i.e. hello hairloss). Along this line, I think the biggest regulator of gut serotonin production is the type of bacteria present in the colon)

With all this in mind, I don't think the answer is to go buy 100 billion strains of probiotics. I think probiotics are a waste of money most of the time in the context of actually curing the issue. I think that the peat diet is actually prime for solving this issue, but with stipulations. These are:
1) full fat unless you yourself skim the cream off the top ( i think the cream is helpful for the GI tract anyway) raw a2 cow milk or raw goat milk (pasteurized, homogenized, A1 dairy is a problem; its not the estrogen in the dairy that causes the problem, its the inflammation it causes in the gut that increases your estrogen levels). Also a real milk kefir made with traditional kefir grains is extremely helpful in my experience.
2) nutrient dense animal products, low PUFA: ruminant meat/ organs, select shellfish: oysters, mussels, shrimp, scallops
3) I think granulated sugar is a problem. its easily fermented in the gut from my experience. try honey, fruit juice
4)I would drop eggs for a period of time and see if they bother you, they have digestive inhibitors and a lot of PUFA (comparatively).
5) no veggies or anything that can ferment. stick to the food groups above explicitly.
6) bone broth/ gelatin/ collagen causes digestive issues.

With this in mind, the point of the above diet is to essentially "breast feed yourself". What establishes our micro biome when we are born is breast milk. If its messed up the easiest way to fix it is to go back to the beginning in my mind. Antibiotics, in my experience will make you worse off.

Other things to keep in mind:
1) stop drinking cold milk. Enzymes in the body require specific temperatures to function. If your hypo, and you down a quart of cold milk in a sitting you will lower your body temp and you will inhibit your digestion.
2) one solid meal of day of meat seems necessary to spark digestion. chew your food thoroughly though. Try eating it in the morning.

 

[DavePalumbo]

One wonders why there are androgen receptors in the scalp area, except to cause male hair distribution (the U shape men have, with hairloss on the temples). We have hair on top of our heads to protect against UV radiation and to keep the surface moist, since it is most exposed to the heat of the sun and will potentially dry out.

It makes no sense that a person should lose their protective scalp hair.

 

[REOSIRENS]

German scientists have pinpointed in some journals that male pattern balness is closely tied to thyroid disorders... And they have shown that Triiodothyronine is the ultimate hair protective hormone and levothyroxine works with Triiodothyronine to help hair elongation...estrogen promotes thyroid disorders and Progesterone protects and compensates in case of low thyroid...

Why t3 is so good for hair?
It's lowers prolactin... parathyroid...protects heart...and helps blood reach body extremities like head brain hair follicle

 

[DavePalumbo]

German scientists have pinpointed in some journals that male pattern balness is closely tied to thyroid disorders... And they have shown that Triiodothyronine is the ultimate hair protective hormone and levothyroxine works with Triiodothyronine to help hair elongation...estrogen promotes thyroid disorders and Progesterone protects and compensates in case of low thyroid...

Even synthetic androgens cause baldness. It clearly is androgenic. It is caused by excessive activation of androgen receptors locally at the scalp. The question is why we even have receptors there.
It's obvious that there are non-androgenic cases (castrated males with hair loss) but those are obviously rare.