Fat Loss - CorTinon 8:1

[LadyRae]

no offense brother but fasting is just ci/co and fat cant turn into muscle

Absolutely. And fasting WILL tank hormones, down-regulate thyroid, raise all the stress hormones. I did it all- daily 16/8 or 18/6. Weekly 36 hour fasts.... My longest was 88 hours. It's not sustainable. Fat goes on FAST after ?... Just now healing from fasting.....❤

 

[MyUsernameHere]

No one should ever eat less than 1800 cals

Should a sedentary person eat 3000-4000 calories per day? Because that gets thrown around a lot here, with no regard for the person's activity level.

Have there been any success stories with this miraculous "don't cut calories, increase your metabolism" approach? I've been on 3 grains on thyroid, it did not help me lose any weight. On the other hand when I was actively counting calories and exercising I got down to a healthy 15% body fat.

Unless you're taking DNP most of your supplements are not doing much for your metabolic rate. You should add a reasonable amount of activity that you can sustain LONG TERM to your daily routine. For me, that's 1 hour of walking. It's super easy, you can do it indefinitely, it won't burn through your glycogen stores.

If, after becoming reasonably active you still struggle in the weight department, well, I'm sorry to say, but the rest of your fight is in the kitchen.

 

[LadyRae]

Should a sedentary person eat 3000-4000 calories per day? Because that gets thrown around a lot here, with no regard for the person's activity level.

Have there been any success stories with this miraculous "don't cut calories, increase your metabolism" approach? I've been on 3 grains on thyroid, it did not help me lose any weight. On the other hand when I was actively counting calories and exercising I got down to a healthy 15% body fat.

Unless you're taking DNP most of your supplements are not doing much for your metabolic rate. You should add a reasonable amount of activity that you can sustain LONG TERM to your daily routine. For me, that's 1 hour of walking. It's super easy, you can do it indefinitely, it won't burn through your glycogen stores.

If, after becoming reasonably active you still struggle in the weight department, well, I'm sorry to say, but the rest of your fight is in the kitchen.

I totally agree! What kind of thyroid were/are you taking? T4? It took a couple months of T3 and also NDT to kick in and raise my metabolism. But I definitely have to watch what I eat. I have found low fat and lots of fruit , with moderate protein about 100 - 130 g a day works well for me. Walking or swimming or biking most days... Only 1 run per week...

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I totally agree! What kind of thyroid were/are you taking? T4? It took a couple months of T3 and also NDT to kick in and raise my metabolism. But I definitely have to watch what I eat. I have found low fat and lots of fruit , with moderate protein about 100 - 130 g a day works well for me. Walking or swimming or biking most days... Only 1 run per week...

It was Thiroyd from Thailand and it got my TSH all the way down to 0.14. It maybe did increase my metabolism but I just ate that much more and still stayed at the same weight.

If I want to lose weight, I have to actively monitor my food intake, or even better, count calories, it's the only way I can succeed long term. The moment I start eating 'intuitively' the pounds start piling back on and after 6 months I've gained 10 lbs just like that.

 

[LadyRae]

It was Thiroyd from Thailand and it got my TSH all the way down to 0.14. It maybe did increase my metabolism but I just ate that much more and still stayed at the same weight.

If I want to lose weight, I have to actively monitor my food intake, or even better, count calories, it's the only way I can succeed long term. The moment I start eating 'intuitively' the pounds start piling back on and after 6 months I've gained 10 lbs just like that.

Yes, I concur!

 

[CLASH]

How to lose weight appropriately and rapidly:

1) determine estimated caloric requirement using katch-mcCardle formula with activity multipliers

2) Determine protein target by multiplying bodyweight by 0.6-0.8g/lb. Meet this requirement with animal proteins: beef, eggs, very lean chicken, very lean turkey, seafood, dairy if well tolerated. Plant proteins are not ideal here for numerous reasons.

3) Multiply protein number X2. This is the minimum amount of carbs to consume. Wether sugar or starch sources, it doesn't matter; it needs to be what you individually digest the best. These need to be whole food sources tho to reach micro requirements. Fruit, frozen fruit, dried fruit, 100% juice, potatoes, yams, sweet potatoes, ripe plantains, properly prepared casava. These are the best sources. White rice can work as well but its weak on micros so you'll have to make up for that elsewhere.

4) Depending on size, fats should make be 10-30g per meal. I'm 6'2" 195lbs, I eat 20-25g of fat per meal, my gf who is 110lbs at 5'8 eats about 15g/ meal. Saturated and monounsaturated work best. Tolerance to more saturated or more monounsaturated is individual as well. This leaves butter (if tolerated), beef tallow, coconut oil, macadamia nut oil, certain olive oils, cocoa butter, chocolate, macadamia nuts. If your libido is low, you have brain fog, your liver feels "full", your constipated and your motivation for life is diminished you may be eating too low fat, or too much dairy...

5) 3-4 meals per day is the most accepted eating pattern I see. I'd personally avoid snacking. Eat your meal digest for 3-4 hours then eat your next meal.

6) Plug your diet into cronometer and make sure you reach as many of your daily micronutrient targets as you can. I reach all of my targets a few times over except vit D, and calcium. I supplement vit D3.

7) Eliminate your problematic foods. I dont eat any dairy or starch. Some of my clients use only starches and dont eat any sugars. Quite a few people I have worked with do terrible with dairy, its more of the rule than the exception, in my experience. Much of this stuff is entirely individual, listen to your body.

8) Dont focus on cardio to lose weight, its a waste of time. Also pure weight loss isn't really ever the primary goal, the goal is recomposition; a redistribution and loss of fat, with a gain of lean mass. This is what makes people attractive. Just losing weight through starvation techniques or cardio usually doesnt give people the look they want. The language here is important which is why I'm reframing it. If losing weight is the accepted idea, then people generally will go to cardio, fasting, starvation diet. If its reframed as "body recomposition" or "bodybuilding" peoples mindset shifts towards anabolic activities like weight lifting. Also, for all the ladies out there, in most situations women do not have the anabolic hormones, nor the response to the anabolic hormones to become "bulky" through weight training. Its mostly a myth. Resistance training will give women the lean and toned look they often desire.

9) Training doesn't need to be hard, it needs to be smart. Proper volume per muscle group should be hit in major movement patterns, moderating the load of each exercise on the specific muscle group. For example 20 sets of leg extensions per week is a poor choice for quad work. Its not so stimulating and very isolated. 20 sets of heavy squats per week would most likely be too much. Whats better would be something like 6 sets of heavy squats, 3 sets of leg extensions, and maybe 3 sets of lunges. Thats 12 total sets spread out with different movement patterns and loading on the muscle.

10) Make sure your sleeping at night. Training without sleep and trying to shred fat without sleep is no bueno. I worked night shift for 1.5 years straight without ever switching to a day schedule. It was the worst progress I ever made in the gym and my physique took a hit, although it wasn't as bad as when I was drinking milk. On milk I ballooned to 220lbs like 20% bodyfat from 195lbs 10% bodyfat, plus I felt absolutely terrible. 20% bodyfat is alot for my body type as I'm naturally lean, so I understand what people are going through when they come to the forum and adopt the so called "peat diet" and gain tons of weight.

 

[Philomath]

How to lose weight appropriately and rapidly:

1) determine estimated caloric requirement using katch-mcCardle formula with activity multipliers

2) Determine protein target by multiplying bodyweight by 0.6-0.8g/lb. Meet this requirement with animal proteins: beef, eggs, very lean chicken, very lean turkey, seafood, dairy if well tolerated. Plant proteins are not ideal here for numerous reasons.

3) Multiply protein number X2. This is the minimum amount of carbs to consume. Wether sugar or starch sources, it doesn't matter; it needs to be what you individually digest the best. These need to be whole food sources tho to reach micro requirements. Fruit, frozen fruit, dried fruit, 100% juice, potatoes, yams, sweet potatoes, ripe plantains, properly prepared casava. These are the best sources. White rice can work as well but its weak on micros so you'll have to make up for that elsewhere.

4) Depending on size, fats should make be 10-30g per meal. I'm 6'2" 195lbs, I eat 20-25g of fat per meal, my gf who is 110lbs at 5'8 eats about 15g/ meal. Saturated and monounsaturated work best. Tolerance to more saturated or more monounsaturated is individual as well. This leaves butter (if tolerated), beef tallow, coconut oil, macadamia nut oil, certain olive oils, cocoa butter, chocolate, macadamia nuts. If your libido is low, you have brain fog, your liver feels "full", your constipated and your motivation for life is diminished you may be eating too low fat, or too much dairy...

5) 3-4 meals per day is the most accepted eating pattern I see. I'd personally avoid snacking. Eat your meal digest for 3-4 hours then eat your next meal.

6) Plug your diet into cronometer and make sure you reach as many of your daily micronutrient targets as you can. I reach all of my targets a few times over except vit D, and calcium. I supplement vit D3.

7) Eliminate your problematic foods. I dont eat any dairy or starch. Some of my clients use only starches and dont eat any sugars. Quite a few people I have worked with do terrible with dairy, its more of the rule than the exception, in my experience. Much of this stuff is entirely individual, listen to your body.

8) Dont focus on cardio to lose weight, its a waste of time. Also pure weight loss isn't really ever the primary goal, the goal is recomposition; a redistribution and loss of fat, with a gain of lean mass. This is what makes people attractive. Just losing weight through starvation techniques or cardio usually doesnt give people the look they want. The language here is important which is why I'm reframing it. If losing weight is the accepted idea, then people generally will go to cardio, fasting, starvation diet. If its reframed as "body recomposition" or "bodybuilding" peoples mindset shifts towards anabolic activities like weight lifting. Also, for all the ladies out there, in most situations women do not have the anabolic hormones, nor the response to the anabolic hormones to become "bulky" through weight training. Its mostly a myth. Resistance training will give women the lean and toned look they often desire.

9) Training doesn't need to be hard, it needs to be smart. Proper volume per muscle group should be hit in major movement patterns, moderating the load of each exercise on the specific muscle group. For example 20 sets of leg extensions per week is a poor choice for quad work. Its not so stimulating and very isolated. 20 sets of heavy squats per week would most likely be too much. Whats better would be something like 6 sets of heavy squats, 3 sets of leg extensions, and maybe 3 sets of lunges. Thats 12 total sets spread out with different movement patterns and loading on the muscle.

10) Make sure your sleeping at night. Training without sleep and trying to shred fat without sleep is no bueno. I worked night shift for 1.5 years straight without ever switching to a day schedule. It was the worst progress I ever made in the gym and my physique took a hit, although it wasn't as bad as when I was drinking milk. On milk I ballooned to 220lbs like 20% bodyfat from 195lbs 10% bodyfat, plus I felt absolutely terrible. 20% bodyfat is alot for my body type as I'm naturally lean, so I understand what people are going through when they come to the forum and adopt the so called "peat diet" and gain tons of weight.

Nice! Just did the calculations using the Katch-McCardle method. Good info! However, they’re still bass ackwards when it comes to PUFA “

• Unsaturated fats. As opposed to the previous two groups, these fats have a positive influence on our health. They actually decrease our cholesterol levels when they replace the saturated and trans fats; to top it off, they can prevent some heart diseases. Sources of these fats include avocados, olives or nuts.

 

[CLASH]

@Philomath Most researchers seem to stay in thier lane. Katch/ McArdle are exercise physiologist if I'm not mistaken (I have one of thier textbooks) so fat physiology and biochemistry may not be thier area of focus.

Thats what makes Peats knowledge and understanding so brilliant; its so comprehensive while also being broad.

 

[SunnyStanford]

Cecilia, before rushing into cutting calories and weight loss spend more time learning about your body and its current needs and make sure you are relatively metabolically healthy befpre cutting calories and increasing exercise. I am glad you have found Kitty, she (and her programs) will emphasise the time needed to health and lose weight as safely as possible. Forums are great places for experience sharing and idea discussion but don't let strangers convince you to drop 500 calories off your daily intake!

 

[LadyRae]

How to lose weight appropriately and rapidly:

1) determine estimated caloric requirement using katch-mcCardle formula with activity multipliers

2) Determine protein target by multiplying bodyweight by 0.6-0.8g/lb. Meet this requirement with animal proteins: beef, eggs, very lean chicken, very lean turkey, seafood, dairy if well tolerated. Plant proteins are not ideal here for numerous reasons.

3) Multiply protein number X2. This is the minimum amount of carbs to consume. Wether sugar or starch sources, it doesn't matter; it needs to be what you individually digest the best. These need to be whole food sources tho to reach micro requirements. Fruit, frozen fruit, dried fruit, 100% juice, potatoes, yams, sweet potatoes, ripe plantains, properly prepared casava. These are the best sources. White rice can work as well but its weak on micros so you'll have to make up for that elsewhere.

4) Depending on size, fats should make be 10-30g per meal. I'm 6'2" 195lbs, I eat 20-25g of fat per meal, my gf who is 110lbs at 5'8 eats about 15g/ meal. Saturated and monounsaturated work best. Tolerance to more saturated or more monounsaturated is individual as well. This leaves butter (if tolerated), beef tallow, coconut oil, macadamia nut oil, certain olive oils, cocoa butter, chocolate, macadamia nuts. If your libido is low, you have brain fog, your liver feels "full", your constipated and your motivation for life is diminished you may be eating too low fat, or too much dairy...

5) 3-4 meals per day is the most accepted eating pattern I see. I'd personally avoid snacking. Eat your meal digest for 3-4 hours then eat your next meal.

6) Plug your diet into cronometer and make sure you reach as many of your daily micronutrient targets as you can. I reach all of my targets a few times over except vit D, and calcium. I supplement vit D3.

7) Eliminate your problematic foods. I dont eat any dairy or starch. Some of my clients use only starches and dont eat any sugars. Quite a few people I have worked with do terrible with dairy, its more of the rule than the exception, in my experience. Much of this stuff is entirely individual, listen to your body.

8) Dont focus on cardio to lose weight, its a waste of time. Also pure weight loss isn't really ever the primary goal, the goal is recomposition; a redistribution and loss of fat, with a gain of lean mass. This is what makes people attractive. Just losing weight through starvation techniques or cardio usually doesnt give people the look they want. The language here is important which is why I'm reframing it. If losing weight is the accepted idea, then people generally will go to cardio, fasting, starvation diet. If its reframed as "body recomposition" or "bodybuilding" peoples mindset shifts towards anabolic activities like weight lifting. Also, for all the ladies out there, in most situations women do not have the anabolic hormones, nor the response to the anabolic hormones to become "bulky" through weight training. Its mostly a myth. Resistance training will give women the lean and toned look they often desire.

9) Training doesn't need to be hard, it needs to be smart. Proper volume per muscle group should be hit in major movement patterns, moderating the load of each exercise on the specific muscle group. For example 20 sets of leg extensions per week is a poor choice for quad work. Its not so stimulating and very isolated. 20 sets of heavy squats per week would most likely be too much. Whats better would be something like 6 sets of heavy squats, 3 sets of leg extensions, and maybe 3 sets of lunges. Thats 12 total sets spread out with different movement patterns and loading on the muscle.

10) Make sure your sleeping at night. Training without sleep and trying to shred fat without sleep is no bueno. I worked night shift for 1.5 years straight without ever switching to a day schedule. It was the worst progress I ever made in the gym and my physique took a hit, although it wasn't as bad as when I was drinking milk. On milk I ballooned to 220lbs like 20% bodyfat from 195lbs 10% bodyfat, plus I felt absolutely terrible. 20% bodyfat is alot for my body type as I'm naturally lean, so I understand what people are going through when they come to the forum and adopt the so called "peat diet" and gain tons of weight.

Wow, great info! I am 5'11", fluctuate between 125/130... Lifting really did start to bulk me .... I do better with swimming, hiking, biking, gymnastics (lots of handstands, cartwheels, sprinting with my kids at a grassy park...) I get lean without puffiness. I eat 100-130 g protein per day, low fat (under 30g/day), about 175/200 g carbs, mostly fruit.

After a couple years of veganism to keto/fasting, I did experience great results from T3 only supplementation and a natural desiccated thyroid, both from ideal labs. I no longer fast other than what I get in a regular overnight period...

At age 43, I have definitely had to deal with a bit of estrogen dominance, especially as I healed from the keto and fasting. I lost my cycle for a couple years during that time but I have finally got it back with some bioidentical progesterone supplementation along with the thyroid.

 

[Harrison]

Hi @CLASH , I'd love to know what you eat in a day to reach all of your targets 'a few times over'?

 

[CLASH]

@Harrison

Macros:
140g protein
400g carbs
120g fat
30g fiber

I eat some combination of these foods everyday:

-eggs
-steak
-seafood (shrimp, oysters, mussels, cod or flounder)
-macadamia nut oil and/or macadamia nuts
-beef tallow
-100% fruit juice (pineapple, orange, and/ or grape)
-Whole/ frozen fruit (grapes, guava, soursop, passion fruit, cherimoya, etc.)
-Dried fruit (papaya, persimmon, pineapple)
-Cooked vegetables (carrots, broccoli)

The biggest problem with this diet is its low in calcium, especially in ratio to phosphorous. I haven't tolerated any calcium supplement I've tried well; they always give me GI issues like bloating, gas, etc. As I mentioned, dairy and I do not get a long. Without dairy calcium sources are limited mainly to leafy greens specifically of the brassica family, which are high in goitrogens unless boiled for long periods of time. Plus huge quantities have to be eaten.

I have clients who run a similar diet except thier carb sources are starches like sweet potatoes, yams, white potatoes and white rice.

 

[Harrison]

@CLASH Brilliant! Thank you.

 

[LadyRae]

@Harrison

Macros:
140g protein
400g carbs
120g fat
30g fiber

I eat some combination of these foods everyday:

-eggs
-steak
-seafood (shrimp, oysters, mussels, cod or flounder)
-macadamia nut oil and/or macadamia nuts
-beef tallow
-100% fruit juice (pineapple, orange, and/ or grape)
-Whole/ frozen fruit (grapes, guava, soursop, passion fruit, cherimoya, etc.)
-Dried fruit (papaya, persimmon, pineapple)
-Cooked vegetables (carrots, broccoli)

The biggest problem with this diet is its low in calcium, especially in ratio to phosphorous. I haven't tolerated any calcium supplement I've tried well; they always give me GI issues like bloating, gas, etc. As I mentioned, dairy and I do not get a long. Without dairy calcium sources are limited mainly to leafy greens specifically of the brassica family, which are high in goitrogens unless boiled for long periods of time. Plus huge quantities have to be eaten.

I have clients who run a similar diet except thier carb sources are starches like sweet potatoes, yams, white potatoes and white rice.

After 20 years avoiding ALL dairy like the plague, I found that a couple months after starting thyroid therapy (Idealabs' NDT and T3) I am thriving on a cup of fat-free greek yogurt. I make "anabolic" baked products with it, and I will also add a tsp of calcium carbonate powder...

I wonder if an increased metabolism is helping me digest dairy? For years, even a bit of butter in a baked product would give me a sore, drippy throat the next morning, and sinus congestion. I am amazed how good it makes me feel now...?

 

[Braveheart]

@Harrison

Macros:
140g protein
400g carbs
120g fat
30g fiber

I eat some combination of these foods everyday:

-eggs
-steak
-seafood (shrimp, oysters, mussels, cod or flounder)
-macadamia nut oil and/or macadamia nuts
-beef tallow
-100% fruit juice (pineapple, orange, and/ or grape)
-Whole/ frozen fruit (grapes, guava, soursop, passion fruit, cherimoya, etc.)
-Dried fruit (papaya, persimmon, pineapple)
-Cooked vegetables (carrots, broccoli)

The biggest problem with this diet is its low in calcium, especially in ratio to phosphorous. I haven't tolerated any calcium supplement I've tried well; they always give me GI issues like bloating, gas, etc. As I mentioned, dairy and I do not get a long. Without dairy calcium sources are limited mainly to leafy greens specifically of the brassica family, which are high in goitrogens unless boiled for long periods of time. Plus huge quantities have to be eaten.

I have clients who run a similar diet except thier carb sources are starches like sweet potatoes, yams, white potatoes and white rice.

Almond milk?

 

[76er]

White rice can work as well but its weak on micros so you'll have to make up for that elsewhere

Thanks for that detailed response.

With regards to starches and micros:

- Sprouted wheat/nixtamalized corn have good micros. For example, two
nixtamalized tortillas have:
- magnesium 33mg
- calcium 68mg
- potassium 106mg
- and others

In short, are micros properly bio-available in sprouted wheat and nixtamalized
corn products?

 

[CLASH]

@CLASH Brilliant! Thank you.

?

 

[CLASH]

After 20 years avoiding ALL dairy like the plague, I found that a couple months after starting thyroid therapy (Idealabs' NDT and T3) I am thriving on a cup of fat-free greek yogurt. I make "anabolic" baked products with it, and I will also add a tsp of calcium carbonate powder...

I wonder if an increased metabolism is helping me digest dairy? For years, even a bit of butter in a baked product would give me a sore, drippy throat the next morning, and sinus congestion. I am amazed how good it makes me feel now...?

Its individual really. My temps are routinely 98.0 upon waking on 1 grain of thyroid, with a normal pulse. I've been tracking this for years now.

I've tried a variety of antibiotics, fermented foods, probiotics, bacteriophages, herbs, enzymes etc. I've tried raw milk, pasteurized, UHT, cow milk, goat milk, kefi, camel milk, sheeps milk, cheese, yogurt, organic, grass fed, conventional etc. I haven't been able to tolerate it. I have also tested positive for a type 4 hypersensitivity reaction to casein, in particular cow casein. The interesting thing is I'm genetically lactase persistent and my mother can drink dairy, so I picked up the allergy along the way; perhaps the series of vaccines I received as a kid had casein in the medium.

 

[CLASH]

Almond milk?

The only reason for me to drink milk is for the protein and naturally occuring minerals. Almond milk is either watered down so it has minimal natural nutritional value beyond its fortification or its high in PUFA. I appreciate the suggestion tho.

The best option so far with the least amount of side effects has been a goat whey with the minerals left in. I rarely drink it tho, I still feel better physically without it.

Chris masterjohn referred to studies in his PTH podcast that showed that phosphate additives and grains where more of an issue than the phosphate found in meat and seafood. I'm hoping this is the case. I'll be checking my PTH/ Vit D3/ Calcium soon.

 

[Braveheart]

The only reason for me to drink milk is for the protein and naturally occuring minerals. Almond milk is either watered down so it has minimal natural nutritional value beyond its fortification or its high in PUFA. I appreciate the suggestion tho.

The best option so far with the least amount of side effects has been a goat whey with the minerals left in. I rarely drink it tho, I still feel better physically without it.

Chris masterjohn referred to studies in his PTH podcast that showed that phosphate additives and grains where more of an issue than the phosphate found in meat and seafood. I'm hoping this is the case. I'll be checking my PTH/ Vit D3/ Calcium soon.

Cool, thought it was mainly calcium you were after....point 0.6 gram pufa in 1.25 cup...doesn't bother me....