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Estrogen Like Symptoms From Gonadin

Marko

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Thread starter
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Feb 12, 2018
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54
I wonder if the reason choline works for you is because it stimulates catecholamine release which makes you feel more alert and energetic and warm, but then later on it increases GABA release (parasympathetic dominance) which might be already high like I mentioned earlier.
DHEA-S and pregnenolone-S are GABA antagonists, so raising them could also help with muscle tone.
I probably have low GABA and I'm taking Clonazepam for 5 years and it suits me.

-Benzodiazepines and Alcohol increase GABA, make it more potent, or produce effects similar to increasing GABA.
-People that already have high levels of GABA may experience increased negative reactions to alcohol, barbiturates, benzodiazepines, or other GABA related substances...

I also react very well to Alcohol...my muscle tonus is excellent, always.
 

Shin

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Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
46
I'am also getting very puffy from Gonadin.
Used to be pretty fat years ago and I immediately got watery ***s again.
My muscle also look more puffy and not fuller like most claim.

I took 12,5mg exemestane every 3 days which did not help reduce the water build up.
So it's prolly not estrogen but Progesterone related?
 

Antonello

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Jul 22, 2017
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288
Location
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My diet is very good, but there are no way that I can get my hormones to normal and feel good...To have hard muscles, not to feel cold anymore and not to having problems with very low libido.
So I thought that Gonadin, CortiNon, Pansterone were good supplements for me, but they are not.
- I have low progesterone and low estradiol in labs, but I'm very obese in the area of buttocs and stomach, no gyno but have lipomastia, have cellulite...
-That's why I thought that CortiNon was good for such a situation, to throw Estrogen out from the tissue, but not, my symptoms are worse.
-I also have a low T, so I took Gonadin for it, but it also gives me bad symptoms.

I do not know why, but is this possible that Thyroid cause a problem, although my Thyroid hormones are not very bad?
What if your symptoms are from too low estrogen?
 

Marko

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Thread starter
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Feb 12, 2018
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What if your symptoms are from too low estrogen?
I have low Estrogen in the labs, but when I take some testosterone-boosting supplement, my Estrogen immediately rises (in the labs), due to aromatization. I have normal-high Prolactin too.
Now I take Aromasin 12mg 3 times a week and it helps me a little.
I think that I have to much Estrogen in tissue and because of this I have low Estrogen in labs.
 

iarkosios

Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2018
Messages
21
I'am also getting very puffy from Gonadin.
Used to be pretty fat years ago and I immediately got watery ***s again.
My muscle also look more puffy and not fuller like most claim.

I took 12,5mg exemestane every 3 days which did not help reduce the water build up.
So it's prolly not estrogen but Progesterone related?

How did you manage to reduce the water build up after all?
 

Shin

Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2016
Messages
46
How did you manage to reduce the water build up after all?

I didn't, I stopped using it for now.
Gonna diet a bit and try it again with a carb intake of around 100 grams and see if I still puff up.
 

johnwester130

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Aug 6, 2015
Messages
3,563
Not necessarily. I am also fairly overweight / obese even .but with the right lever adjustments, you can absolutely lose weight on relatively high calorie, as high as 4k or even 5k calorie, although 5k requires more lever arms to adjust, 4k is still very achievable at least for a male of my height (6' 0") anyway, it just requires doing the right things such as

- Low tryptophan / low fernstrom ratio foods (no milk, cheese, whey), get ample gelatin to drive fernstrom ratio down further still
- Not over-doing protein in general (I try not to exceed 150g)
- Not over-doing fat, but do aim for a good SFA/PUFA ratio
- Get lots of sugar, eat minimal to zero starches, but at least get a solid 2-4 sugar:starch ratio
- Maximizing micronutrients as you can with the above guidelines

I am planning to make a new thread soon with my experiences, since I am now tracking data that shows all this to be possible.

So what causes obesity then? In my experience, it almost all boils down to digestion. High tryptophan foods tend to create serotonin in the gut, high protein tends to create lots of poison (ammonia), over-doing fats tends to cause excess FFA's (insulin resistance), etc. Sugar is about the only thing that is very easily digestible, starch, while it is a carb, is not ideal and can be hard to digest and cause problems also. Straight glucose powder is almost equal to sugar in digestive ease, in my opinion. Like maltodextrin powder. I am using some maltodextrin (pure glucose) to boost my carbs a bit higher, and so far it seems like I digest this nearly as well as sugar. Starch is not technically the same as pure glucose, as it takes a bit of digestive power to turn starch into usable glucose.

Instead of calories in calories out which I consider to be a dated model, let's think of things as a limit of how much digestive capability we have on a daily basis, with some foods like starch and tryptophan generally requiring vastly more digestive power and energy than simple foods like fruit/sugar and low fernstrom proteins like beef and gelatin.

Most people nowadays eat poor foods so they absolutely can gain weight on as little as 3000 or even 2500 calories or less. That's because starches and tryptophan are a heavy burden on the digestive tract. Remove the burden, increase your caloric limit. Basically, Protein, Fats, and Starches can all be over-done, but it's hard to over-do sugars. Sugars are really the only safe foods to eat after a certain threshold. There is likely a threshold for sugars too, but if there is one, it's VERY high and I haven't found one yet - and this is coming from someone who has eaten upwards of 1,000-1,200 grams of carbs in a day before and still lost weight.
I was pointing out what studies found. Eliminating things that you mentioned gives similar benefits to caloric deficit, but to start losing weight on high calories you need a high RMR and mitochondrial efficiency.

Haidut once mentioned that he ate around 250g carbs and below 3000 calories I think. Maybe he ate more when he was recovering.

Once you are metabolically effective you don't need to eat that many calories or that many carbs, but if your body requires it and can stay lean then you can eat that much.

I would first and foremost focus on optimizing the gut and digestion like Clash and a few others did and also improve insulin sensitivity.
If you struggle to do that via diet, supplements is really a great option. Haidut also megadosed a few supplements to fix himself.


For anyone interested, this website gives a better description of the ingredients found in Gonadin

https://www.antaeuslabs.com/product/ultratest-testosterone-booster/
 

Texon

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Nov 28, 2016
Messages
507
I wonder if the reason choline works for you is because it stimulates catecholamine release which makes you feel more alert and energetic and warm, but then later on it increases GABA release (parasympathetic dominance) which might be already high like I mentioned earlier.
DHEA-S and pregnenolone-S are GABA antagonists, so raising them could also help with muscle tone.
Hi Hans, really like your posts, and if your avatar is your current status, the proof is in the pudding as they say. Question maybe you can help with...I am 69 and lean/muscular...6'5" about 190 lbs. I was on low dose t cyp for 3 years but finally quit cold turkey due to too many sides. Do you think gonadin could help me with the inevitable sarcopenia and slower recovery from exercise of advancing age?
 

Texon

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
507
I wonder if the reason choline works for you is because it stimulates catecholamine release which makes you feel more alert and energetic and warm, but then later on it increases GABA release (parasympathetic dominance) which might be already high like I mentioned earlier.
DHEA-S and pregnenolone-S are GABA antagonists, so raising them could also help with muscle tone.
Also I have some gut issues I'm trying to resolve with ion Biome as well as managing homocysteine to about 10-15 with methyl B12, tmg, p5p b6 etc.
 

Hans

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Aug 24, 2017
Messages
4,892
Hi Hans, really like your posts, and if your avatar is your current status, the proof is in the pudding as they say. Question maybe you can help with...I am 69 and lean/muscular...6'5" about 190 lbs. I was on low dose t cyp for 3 years but finally quit cold turkey due to too many sides. Do you think gonadin could help me with the inevitable sarcopenia and slower recovery from exercise of advancing age?
Thanks, much appreciated. I've actually added about another 10kg through lean bulking this year (since that photo was taken).
Restoring steroidogenesis naturally can depend on a few things, such as testicular health, estrogen, cortisol, serotonin, and prolactin levels, inflammation, gut health, glandular health (hypothalamus and pituitary), etc.
But to keep it simple, managing cortisol and estrogen are two of the best ways to promote the production of testosterone and Gonadin does both of those.
In order to see if it will work for you, or if you might need something extra, you'll have to test to see how effectively it increases your T and DHT.
Making sure your testosterone and DHT are both high and managing cortisol is the best way to stave off sarcopenia, aside from lifting heavy (to your ability) and consuming enough calories, especially from protein and carbs.
Also I have some gut issues I'm trying to resolve with ion Biome as well as managing homocysteine to about 10-15 with methyl B12, tmg, p5p b6 etc.
How is the ion Biome (Restore, right?) working for you?
You can also add in some B2 for methylation, as it's a cofactor for MTHFR.
 

Texon

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Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
507
Thanks, much appreciated. I've actually added about another 10kg through lean bulking this year (since that photo was taken).
Restoring steroidogenesis naturally can depend on a few things, such as testicular health, estrogen, cortisol, serotonin, and prolactin levels, inflammation, gut health, glandular health (hypothalamus and pituitary), etc.
But to keep it simple, managing cortisol and estrogen are two of the best ways to promote the production of testosterone and Gonadin does both of those.
In order to see if it will work for you, or if you might need something extra, you'll have to test to see how effectively it increases your T and DHT.
Making sure your testosterone and DHT are both high and managing cortisol is the best way to stave off sarcopenia, aside from lifting heavy (to your ability) and consuming enough calories, especially from protein and carbs.

How is the ion Biome (Restore, right?) working for you?
You can also add in some B2 for methylation, as it's a cofactor for MTHFR.
Amazing! Thanks for your ideas. I really want to lift more but delayed recovery is hard to deal with. And yes I had forgotten about b2 for methylation. I also discovered that B1 is a problem for me and that a young patient treated by Dr Lonsdale with lipothiamine started utilizing folate and B12 perfectly fine, as if a logjam had been broken. Just started ion biome so too early to tell. I plan on giving gonadin a try! Thanks again!
 

Hans

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Aug 24, 2017
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Amazing! Thanks for your ideas. I really want to lift more but delayed recovery is hard to deal with. And yes I had forgotten about b2 for methylation. I also discovered that B1 is a problem for me and that a young patient treated by Dr Lonsdale with lipothiamine started utilizing folate and B12 perfectly fine, as if a logjam had been broken. Just started ion biome so too early to tell. I plan on giving gonadin a try! Thanks again!
It's my pleasure. Perhaps you can try 1tsp sodium bicarb, 100mg B1 (or 50mg lipothiamine) and 1-2mg methylene blue pre-workout and pyrucet and magnoil throughout the day to speed up recovery from a workout. Boosting DHT can also greatly help to speed up recovery.
 

Texon

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Joined
Nov 28, 2016
Messages
507
It's my pleasure. Perhaps you can try 1tsp sodium bicarb, 100mg B1 (or 50mg lipothiamine) and 1-2mg methylene blue pre-workout and pyrucet and magnoil throughout the day to speed up recovery from a workout. Boosting DHT can also greatly help to speed up recovery.
I have everything but the pyrucet and am not sure what that is. Also revisiting dhea to address cortisol after a long hiatus. Sleeping more than 4 hrs a night is currently my biggest challenge, and I have tried everything short or prescription meds. Thanks again!
 

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