Donald Trump

[kyle]

It is frightening the way these haters react, totally unopen to reason or compromise.

It's clear they won't stop until every last white person/Christian is destroyed. Scary people.

 

[Queequeg]

Again, we can’t have a discussion if you keep picking and choosing what arguments you respond to and ignore the rest. But even when you do, presenting a non-equivalent or irrelevant example from the US is not an argument. As I have mentioned before, ignoring an opposing point typically means that you accept it as true. If that is not the case, I’ll state them again so maybe this time you can make a cogent argument.

1) My point is not whether the American public could defeat its own military but rather what would be a better defense against the rise of tyranny, general strikes as you claim, or general strikes backed by a population that is fully armed.

2) It’s not just an armed citizenry but also the three other rights I mentioned that give the US a better chance of preventing the rise of a dictator. As just one example, look at what is going on in Europe with Muslim immigration. If you happen to disagree with that policy, good luck speaking out against it. You will at best be labeled a racist and at worst prosecuted for hate speech. If you can’t speak out against government policy at any time, then you don’t have freedom of speech. Pointing to Manning, Assange and Snowden as comparable examples is ridiculous. They are accused of leaking state secrets which has nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Germany springs to action over hate speech against migrants
New Swedish Law Criminalizes Anti-immigration Internet Speech
UK cops arrest man for “offensive” comment about Muslim migrants

3)You said that European democracies don’t have to worry about the rise of tyranny. Would you care to tell us why so many of the world’s past dictators seem to have come from Europe? Only someone with a complete lack of historical perspective could claim that any worry about this happening again is delusional paranoia. As a recent example, Austria had en ex-Nazi as its president and came close to doing so again in its last elections. Have a look at the long section on European dictators compared to the complete lack of any US examples and please let us know why that has been the case. List of dictators - Conservapedia

Unlike you, I'll happily address all of your points

It seems like there are only two possible worldviews as far as you're concerned- yours, and communism.

No, based on your use of Marxist buzzwords and anti -capitalism beliefs, I am saying that you seem to be a big fan of communism

No insurgency has been successful without large scale support from other governments and countries.
Referencing foreign invasions as an example is irrelevant. The American government wouldn't face the prospect of out of control borders, hostile neighbours and massive logistical challenges if it were to suddenly declare total rule on it's own population. Occupiers have failed to pacify whoever they invaded usually due to a lack of political support and money, not necessarily because they couldn't win every battle. You're suggesting the public would win in a war of attrition against a better armed and more sophisticated military that would be in total control of all the country's agriculture, trade routes and manufacturing areas. But you're not armed to teeth in comparison to your military. You make your delusion quite apparent when you insist that less than 300 million people armed with semi automatic handguns and rifles is more powerful than a government with enough destructive power to destroy all life on the planet down to viruses 300 times over.

Again you have no idea how an insurgency or any form of armed resistance works. Asymmetrical warfare has always been a very effective strategy against much better equipped armies. But as usual you are completely missing the greater point which, as repeated above, is that an armed populace has a better chance at defending itself against tyranny than an unarmed one.

Snowden, Manning, Assange. or don't they count?

It’s unfortunate what happened to these people, but as I said, they were charged with leaking state secrets. That is a very different thing than being prosecuted for speaking out against state policy, which is what happens in Europe. It’s also unfortunate that you think that these two things are even remotely equivalent.

They had their own armies. They seized power through force.

No they didn’t. They formed a guerilla movement from the local population and trained them. Many of our citizens are veterans and could easily do the same.

You don't seem to know much about what your government is up to.
Khalid Al-Musri is a muslim. He was abducted by the CIA off a German street, kidnapped and taken to Afghanistan where he was tortured until they realized he was innocent, then drugged, dumped onto a road somewhere in Albania and left to find his way home. He was refused any kind of compensation. He was one of 20 or so muslims who were kidnapped by the American government, many were held in Guantanamo and tortured. I just thought I'd mention it seeing as you seem very concerned with abuse of muslims.
There's also the case of Al-Awlaki and his son. They were both American citizens who were killed in a drone strike, because, well the government said they needed to die, even though they refused to show any evidence of their guilt.
Kidnapping, torture and the State acting as judge,jury and executioner of it's citizens.Those examples make France's abuses look rather tepid.

I never said America was completely innocent in its anti-terror abuses, but these two examples cannot be compared to the wide scale abuse of an entire country. We never suspended our constitution or civil rights. France has done so for over a year. The scale of its abuses of its own citizens is thousands of time worse than what America has done to its citizens.

6-Year-Old Suspended For Pointing Fingers In The Shape Of A Gun
First-Grader Suspended For Pointing Fingers In The Shape Of A Gun
Child Suspended for Brandishing Chicken
Child Suspended for Brandishing Chicken
Attempt to ban the word Bossy from schools
'Bossy' Ban: The Main Problem With Feminism Today | The Huffington Post
I'm sure if these were happening in Europe you'd be quick to label them evidence of a nanny state.

Unfortunately children do not have the same constitutional rights as adults when at school. But again your comparisons are ridiculous. Are you saying that restrictions on children playing with toy guys are equivalent to arresting an adult for hate speech? It's clear that Europe treats all its citizens as school children but what's more is that they don't even treat their school children's rights much better that we do.
Refugee children 'arrested, detained and beaten' for carrying toy guns

 

[Ahanu]

No, based on your use of Marxist buzzwords and anti -capitalism beliefs, I am saying that you seem to be a big fan of communism

So then would you call Ray Peat a fan of communism? He seems not a big fan of capitalism either..

 

[DaveFoster]

So then would you call Ray Peat a fan of communism? He seems not a big fan of capitalism either..

Ray Peat is an anarchist. This has been discussed multiple

Peat Supports Anarchism (Talking With Ray Peat #3: The Origins Of Authoritarianism)

He's not the libertarian kind, either. He's the leftist sort of anarchist.

It doesn't really matter what he is. He's not a demigod: just an intelligent person who reads a lot.

 

[Ahanu]

He's the leftist sort of anarchist.

Well, Ray Peat right again

 

[Ahanu]

It's clear that Europe treats all its citizens as school children but what's more is that they don't even treat their school children's rights much better that we do.

As of 2004 the United States had the highest percentage of people in prison of any nation. There were more than 2.2 million in prisons or jails, or 737 per 100,000 population, or roughly 1 out of every 136 Americans. According to The National Council on Crime and Delinquency, since 1990 the incarceration of youth in adult jails has increased 208%.[151] In some states youth - juvenile is defined as young as 13 years old!!
The length of prison sentences in the United States is widely criticized in other countries and is believed to be the biggest contributor to the country's large prison population. The length of the average prison sentences (for all crimes) in the United States far exceed those in most other countries. The United States is currently the country with the most life sentences, most of which are life without parole (LWOP)

 

[Such_Saturation]

All you gotta say, "In America, we keep what we earn, or at least most of it."

Yeah the rest goes to the millions of people who gave you the strength to earn those things

 

[x-ray peat]

I am truly amazed at how many Marxists there are on this site. Is this the common belief system of recent grads today? The ex-KGB agent, Yuri Bezmenov, who said that our education system was infiltrated by Marxists wasn't kidding. And no, Ray is not a Communist of any kind whether Statist or Anarchist. Provide one quote where he said that he was a Communist or Anarchist. I just listened to a podcast where he mentioned the importance of private capital accumulation for investments in major projects and did so without once warning of the evils of the bourgeoisie exploiters. Its incredible how people hear only what that want to hear and project their own ideology onto Ray.

 

[zztr]

According to The National Council on Crime and Delinquency, since 1990 the incarceration of youth in adult jails has increased 208% [...]
The length of prison sentences in the United States is widely criticized in other countries and is believed to be the biggest contributor to the country's large prison population.

America had crisis level crime rates in the 70s and we tried this prison thing. It worked. I'm fine with it. If you commit violent crime or repeatedly steal things, you get locked up for many years. What's the problem?

Europeans tend to get confused on this subject because they don't get that the crime problem and the prison population in America are essentially black and latino. Maybe Ray has useful nutritional advice to help people from being crime prone, but that's not immediately actionable. When black males under 40 are under 5% of the population but commit an outright majority of murders, you're gonna have a black prison population. We're not talking about an annoying chav problem here. We're talking about murderers and repeat property crime felons. We've dropped Mao style summary execution in favor of long prison sentences. Take your pick.

 

[Ahanu]

If only 25% of the American people take up arms, that is an army of 0ver 80 million. That is a better than 40 to one odds. Most Guerilla movements have had far fewer numbers than the military they have overthrown

If that is true than we can dismiss your gun argument:
Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
Just look at the percentage. Enough to overthrow a potential dictator according to you.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Provide one quote where he said that he was a Communist or Anarchist.

 

[Atman]

I am truly amazed at how many Marxists there are on this site. Is this the common belief system of recent grads today? The ex-KGB agent, Yuri Bezmenov, who said that our education system was infiltrated by Marxists wasn't kidding.

Yes, the situation in western universities is pretty bad. But more and more people are becoming aware because the discrepancies between reality and the preachings they hear at university and in the media become far to apparent.
You can see this development even in this forum in the last few years. An opposition is building up and one can feel the tension in society rising.

 

[Rand56]

I am truly amazed at how many Marxists there are on this site

Same here.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I am truly not amazed that you are amazed

 

[Queequeg]

Cherry picking my arguments again, but things are slow at work so..

So then would you call Ray Peat a fan of communism? He seems not a big fan of capitalism either..

Ray is against state supported monopoly capitalism. From what I can tell he is not against free market capitalism with small producers and small consumers that don't have the power to distort the markets.

As of 2004 the United States had the highest percentage of people in prison of any nation. There were more than 2.2 million in prisons or jails, or 737 per 100,000 population, or roughly 1 out of every 136 Americans. According to The National Council on Crime and Delinquency, since 1990 the incarceration of youth in adult jails has increased 208%.[151] In some states youth - juvenile is defined as young as 13 years old!!
The length of prison sentences in the United States is widely criticized in other countries and is believed to be the biggest contributor to the country's large prison population. The length of the average prison sentences (for all crimes) in the United States far exceed those in most other countries. The United States is currently the country with the most life sentences, most of which are life without parole (LWOP)

saying that America is perfect is not my argument.

If that is true than we can dismiss your gun argument:
Estimated number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia
Just look at the percentage. Enough to overthrow a potential dictator according to you.

How does that disprove my point? I am saying that a large number of armed citizens plus a strong support for individual rights are best able to defend a country's civil liberties. From that list, the US has by far the most arms in the hands of its citizens. Number 3 and 4 Serbia and Yemen recently had a civil war or are in the midst of one. Number 4, Switzerland just further proves my point as its strong belief in republican ideals combined with high gun ownership rates prevented the rise of any dictator or any invasion since it became a democratic republic. Gun ownership quickly drops off after that. For example Sweden at number 9, shows gun ownership rates at 6.5% of the population as compared to about 45% in the US.

Most in the western democracies have been so brainwashed, that they are more scared of guns in the hands of their fellow citizens than they are of the rise of a potential dictator.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Local smartest man in America supports Donald Trump

People in Mercer County, Mo., prefer Donald Trump

 

[Ahanu]

saying that America is perfect is not my argument

I am takling about actuall freedom people enjoy in their country now.
And this is just another point why america is not at the top of freedom Index for their citizens:
There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, “no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens.”
Takling about nanny states..

How does that disprove my point?

Because as you said yourself there needs to be an amount of guns in the Hand of citizens to prevent the rise of a dictator. And many countries fullfill that amount.

Most in the western democracies have been so brainwashed, that they are more scared of guns in the hands of their fellow citizens than they are of the rise of a potential dictator.

So there are enough guns to prevent the rise of a dictator but these demogracies dont like to give guns to people who are not mature enough. They also dont let you drive a car unless you make a license. The right to get a gun is still a Civil right in many of these countries.
The loose gun control in the U.S is because of their big gun industry Lobby and not because of some ideal. Money rules!

 

[Queequeg]

I am takling about actuall freedom people enjoy in their country now.
And this is just another point why america is not at the top of freedom Index for their citizens:
There are approximately 2 million inmates in state, federal and private prisons throughout the country. According to California Prison Focus, “no other society in human history has imprisoned so many of its own citizens.”
Takling about nanny states..

Again not my argument.

Because as you said yourself there needs to be an amount of guns in the Hand of citizens to prevent the rise of a dictator. And many countries fullfill that amount.

I never said that there is a specific amount or cut-off point. I am saying that Americans are far more likely to own and know how to shoot guns than any other people in the world. Most people in other countries would be too horrified to even pick up a gun let alone shooting it properly.

The loose gun control in the U.S is because of their big gun industry Lobby and not because of some ideal. Money rules!

I think you need to read up on the history if the second amendment.
and for the 100th time its not just about guns. Why don't you explain to me how much freedom of speech you have if all of Europe has made speaking out against unrestricted immigration a hate crime.

 

[Ahanu]

Most people in other countries would be too horrified to even pick up a gun let alone shooting it properly

haha you are funny

 

[Queequeg]

haha you are funny

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