How To Convince People They're Wrong

[Geronimo]

I made the mistake of going into the comment section of a YouTube video hating on "conspiracy theorists" today. The people were incredibly hostile, ignorant and angry at me beyond belief. Nobody would listen to or read any of the factual information presented to them. None of them had any info to retort what I said, but still called me an idiot, cultist, tinfoil hat-wearer, dangerously ignorant, among other really hateful things. To be fair, I was a bit hostile in a reply or two. I must remember these people are victims of the media. But no one person can tame an army of starving lions. I was there alone and stood my ground, but it ruined my day and my stress levels shot through the roof. I needed help, and with enough information presented to people, it can reach critical mass. How else did we all get here in the first place?

We as a community should pick certain threads and use our collectively superior knowledge on health, science and media bias to politely and logically inform people why what they're viewing is wrong. There are too few of us to naturally be found in groups. We need to help each other in these situations. I was thinking the whole time "I really wish the informed people of the peat forum were with me now". I know this sounds weird, but ethically it will be okay if we:

NEVER ever insult anyone
Only use verified sources
Be willing to explain to people what it all means
Avoid topics such as microchips, flat earth (I know lol), and 5G. These are their Pavlovian buzzwords that trigger an angry response
Avoid reacting emotionally

With just 5 of you with me, I could have really reached probably 50 people today. The truth spreads. Some would say it spreads like a virus. What do you think? Can we make a difference?

 

[Geronimo]

For the record, I'm an avid Corbett follower and, like most of you, have spent thousands of hours reading all this stuff and know very well how to research and decipher quality info. We need to reach people, but their mental and emotional barriers are so incredibly strong about everything going on right now. It was a truly eye opening experience to open myself up like that. These people are not our enemy, but they think we, as independent free-thinkers with our intellectual integrity intact, are their enemy. We should show them otherwise.

 

[Lejeboca]

Nobody would listen to or read any of the factual information presented to them. None of them had any info to retort what I said, but still called me an idiot, cultist, tinfoil hat-wearer, dangerously ignorant, among other really hateful things

It doesn't help, that it is an election year, does it? This is by design: The coronadoom just aggravates the polarization in people and vice versa. Every time I try to open anyone's eyes on covidiocy, invariably, I get a republican vs democrat push back, even though I never invoke politics or any names, only cite scientific research... When I ask to provide me with some sources, such as scientific papers, for their covidism, because I am really interested to find any basis for their belief, all I get is an example of Japan where masks are worn all the time with "no covid" or a standard link to the JHU site. And this is not from a kind of people who are insecure in their ability to do their own research. In this case, they are all Ph.D.'s...

I must admit, I've given up providing any references or pointers to research. Seems pointless when the other side has none. I am really just hoping that there will be some awakening point for lemmings. But maybe, it's hopeless??

 

[Summer]

Keep in mind that a lot of the users you run into in comment sections on YouTube are shills. They’re paid to sow division.

 

[Geronimo]

Well, imagine in those discussions if you had a few other people on your side. Just 3 other people to say "he/she is absolutely right. Here's why". I don't know. We need help. People's ignorance is going to lead to me being forced to take an unproven vaccine created by eugenicists who have already been caught tainting vaccines with sterilizing agents. I am not comfortable with that in any manner. All I want, through all of this crap, is to have the choice to take the vaccine or not. They've already taken all the money. I have no delusions of a mass "awakening" (aka people using basic logic). But we need a certain amount of people to speak up, or there will be no choice to be had. I just want a choice when the absolutely inevitable time comes. Everyone else can put whatever they want in their bodies.

 

[Geronimo]

Keep in mind that a lot of the users you run into in comment sections on YouTube are shills. They’re paid to sow division.

We are smarter than shills. We can use their hate and aggression against them by supplying quality info and demanding they do the same. They will fail in this endeavor, for everyone to see.

 

[Summer]

We are smarter than shills. We can use their hate and aggression against them by supplying quality info and demanding they do the same. They will fail in this endeavor, for everyone to see.

This isn’t anything new. Disinformation campaigns have been around as long as media has. Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Reddit are all compromised. Go on Twitter and the worst things you’ve seen in Youtube comments will be amplified x10. You aren’t dealing with individuals. You’re dealing with multiple governmental, political, intelligence, etc organizations.

 

[Lejeboca]

Well, imagine in those discussions if you had a few other people on your side. Just 3 other people to say "he/she is absolutely right. Here's why

Would be nice to have a civilized discussion/comment exchange/debate, of course...
What I wanted to say is that rationality ("here is why") does not work even with bona fide users who are brainwashed.
Maybe just pointing people to such content as that of Vernon Coleman, Pamela Popper or interview with Beda Starder would be beneficial?
I'd like to know whether anyone on the RF forum managed to help someone outside the forum change their opinion on the coronadoom? Anyone please?
(well, it is already hard to change strongly held opinions inside this forum, so I won't be too surprised if no "influencer of influetza outside" is found..)

 

[Geronimo]

Yes. But some real people will see the real info if we group up and force it into areas where they weren't looking for it. I have convinced several friends and one sibling of this stuff. It's possible. We will be criticized and ostracized by some, shills and normal people alike. But some people will see it and it will affect some real people. That's how all of us got here in the first place. Ray Peat, Corbett, etc all reached us indirectly, not because we looked for Ray Peat and Corbett specifically. Both have influenced my worldview more than anyone, outside of my family.

 

[tankasnowgod]

NEVER ever insult anyone
Only use verified sources
Be willing to explain to people what it all means
Avoid topics such as microchips, flat earth (I know lol), and 5G. These are their Pavlovian buzzwords that trigger an angry response
Avoid reacting emotionally

You might add...... Find a better venue for sharing information than the Comment Section on Youtube.

If you are really interested in "convincing" someone of something (and not just that they are wrong), the book "Influence, the Psychology of Persuasion" by Robert Chaldini is a great read.

 

[Geronimo]

You might add...... Find a better venue for sharing information than the Comment Section on Youtube.

If you are really interested in "convincing" someone of something (and not just that they are wrong), the book "Influence, the Psychology of Persuasion" by Robert Chaldini is a great read.

Yes, but these people, generally, don't read books. They don't even read the abstracts of studies. They don't even know how to find studies. They're scientifically illiterate in the modern sense, content to the confines Google has laid out for them. They can't even be bothered to read entire comments, much less links I include, much less go out and buy and read an entire book lol. They're like automatons, reprogrammed by the media to go out and do their bidding. It's classical conditioning: People fear the virus. The media associates conspiracy theorists with dissenting opinions and then dissenting opinions with spreading the virus. People now fear dissenting opinions.

Edit: I'm stupid. I think you were telling me to read that book lol. My bad. But what I said is still technically true.

 

[Maljam]

Only use verified sources
Be willing to explain to people what it all means

People don't do this on this forum, let alone YouTube comments lol. I asked someone to post proof that "saturated fat increases serotonin" and have had to spend the last couple of days responding to people asking why I would do such a thing.

We as a community should pick certain threads and use our collectively superior knowledge on health, science and media bias to politely and logically inform people why what they're viewing is wrong. There are too few of us to naturally be found in groups.

IMO the average member on here doesn't have any more "superior knowledge" than the average member of many other health forums on the internet. There are more posts asking for help than developing knowledge and posting studies. Not an insult to the forum, but I think this is generally true of all health forums on this internet.

Energizer said something interesting the other day that being on this forum is like groundhog day, because the same questions keep getting asked again and again. It is true. The dietary questions being asked today are for the most part the same as what was on Peatarian back in the day. (I also think this is true of other health forums.)

 

[Max23]

Some thoughts:
· You didn´t fail, you probably got a lot of info out. Some people got the information. When posting on the internet a lot of positive effects you just can´t see.
· I hate arguing with people on the internet, it is a tremendous stress, even when I win and you basically can´t lose with truth on your side. Arguing affects my heart rate and mood negatively.
· I can´t just sit on the information I have and witness the slaughter that is going on and will get worse.
· I try to use a thought I heard from somewhere. 30% are the people who agree with you, 40% are undecided and 30% are people who´ll never agree with you. Those 40% should be targeted and time shouldn´t be wasted on those who will not agree with you or don´t want to learn.
· I try to provide information to people who ask questions on the internet. Those could be really easy scores. Some are really on the edge and just need to find a Corbett.
· Like Derrick Broze said consider talking with someone you know. It could be delicate, but you´ll know better where you are.
· Don´t look to make a difference, because when you don´t you might feel failure. Look to do your part in the war against the globalists. There are many others fighting right now and your contribution helps them.
· To avoid stress turn informing people into a sport. All that is needed is a score of some sort. So fun could be had.
· It is possible to get organized and do it together with like-minded people. For example by creating a pristine collection of information and sharing information about sharing it on the internet and getting better at it.

 

[ecstatichamster]

You almost never change minds.

occasionally you can give someone new information that they may later integrate into their world view. Humans seldom change their minds. I persuade people for a living. It’s very challenging and you can never go against what someone already believes.

 

[David PS]

If you are really interested in "convincing" someone of something (and not just that they are wrong), the book "Influence, the Psychology of Persuasion" by Robert Chaldini is a great read.

It is a fascinating read. Here is a link to the full text at Researchgate.net
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Leansi_Vega_Rouco/project/Influence-analysis-in-technological-networks-SNA/attachment/59639b41b53d2f3d63bfee13/AS:514593393184768@1499700033476/download/Robert+Caldini_Influence,+Psychology+of+Persuasion.pdf?context=ProjectUpdatesLog

 

[Lollipop2]

It is a fascinating read. Here is a link to the full text at Researchgate.net
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Leansi_Vega_Rouco/project/Influence-analysis-in-technological-networks-SNA/attachment/59639b41b53d2f3d63bfee13/AS:514593393184768@1499700033476/download/Robert+Caldini_Influence,+Psychology+of+Persuasion.pdf?context=ProjectUpdatesLog

Thank you for posting this!

 

[schultz]

Talking to people in person, or 1 on 1 through e-mail or something, is a much better way to convince people. Youtube is like the most difficult place in the world to convince someone of anything.

 

[David PS]

Thank you for posting this!

It is great to occasionally be able help.

 

[Maljam]

Talking to people in person, or 1 on 1 through e-mail or something, is a much better way to convince people. Youtube is like the most difficult place in the world to convince someone of anything.

+1 Audiences make genuine debate almost impossible.

 

[maillol]

Ask them what it would take to change their mind.