Trump And FLOTUS_Test Positive For Covid-19

managing

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Yeah, a lot of people have 'white' coat syndrome, probably for good reasons. I don't even want to think what goes on behind Hospital doors lol, you have to be your best advocate for your own health, like 99% on this forum :): How many Doctors (truly) believe in the hypocritcal oath these days Hippocratic Oath - Wikipedia there are probably many, but what about the few?
Although I am likely to disagree on the percentage that is intentional and coordinated (very small but not 0%, imo), I think you place the blame in the wrong place. I know many doctors. One of my best friends. The vast majority are well-intentioned and intelligent people. The system itself is flawed. It constantly feeds them flawed information and assumptions. If the assumptions (Think.) and information (Perceive) are flawed, then the actions are sure to be garbage much of the time.

But thinking that medicine is a vast conspiracy of bad people trying to kill you and steal your wallet (not saying that you personally do/not think this, I don't know) is caricature.

That said, like any service profession, there are exceptions. I once stopped a nurse from killing my mother by pitching a fit, getting myself escorted out by police, but thereby invoking a mandatory (hospital policy) review of my mother's care by the medical ombudsman. She was out of that nurse's care in 20 minutes and in emergency surgery I had been agitating for all day. But even then, this was a deeply flawed person, and the far from perfect system actually intervened to do the right thing. And the nurse was banned from one of the US' largest hospital systems as a result. My close doctor friend helped me do this and coached me through some of the intricacies of hospital hierarchy to make it happen (he was 2000 miles away so he couldn't have practically intervened directly).
 
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not_James_Bond
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That said, like any service profession, there are exceptions. I once stopped a nurse from killing my mother by pitching a fit, getting myself escorted out by police, but thereby invoking a mandatory (hospital policy) review of my mother's care by the medical ombudsman. She was out of that nurse's care in 20 minutes and in emergency surgery I had been agitating for all day. But even then, this was a deeply flawed person, and the far from perfect system actually intervened to do the right thing. And the nurse was banned from one of the US' largest hospital systems as a result. My close doctor friend helped me do this and coached me through some of the intricacies of hospital hierarchy to make it happen (he was 2000 miles away so he couldn't have practically intervened directly).

@managing I enjoyed your input.
That is a concerning example, I have experience with my late Mother, she had Alzheimer's and some care she got was poor, I won't go further.

What's the expression 'It only takes one bad apple to spoil the apple cart', but yeah, your right it is the system, but don't a lot of medical practitioners have 'closed' minds to alternate treatments?, how many have even heard of Ray Peat, for example??
 

JDreamer

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Fake disease is a big business. A lot of money to be made simply in performing tests alone.

When you can use free testing at home - temperature, checking for symptoms - why not use something really high tech to be absolutely certain? Like RT-PCR. After all, it is very, very scientific. So much so that you can't understand it as a layperson. So it has to be very reliable.

Just trust the experts.

I've tried to explain this to my family - especially from the pharmaceutical angle and it's like they try REALLY F'IN HARD to not understand. They just don't want to believe that there are entities in this world looking to benefit off their fear - especially financially. Why they don't want to believe that after everything they've seen is beyond me. Crisis (especially the manufactured kind) always attracts the opportunistic.

Pharmaceuticals Corps/FDA --> Lobbyists --> Politicians --> Regular People. This whole thing is being artificially manipulated, so that Big Pharma had the time it needed to prep their Vax (which won't even work half the time) and so that politicians can get their greasy hands on as many stimulus packages as possible to syphon the money to in ways it wasn't intended. All future funded by the U.S. taxpayer.
 

JDreamer

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Although I am likely to disagree on the percentage that is intentional and coordinated (very small but not 0%, imo), I think you place the blame in the wrong place. I know many doctors. One of my best friends. The vast majority are well-intentioned and intelligent people. The system itself is flawed. It constantly feeds them flawed information and assumptions. If the assumptions (Think.) and information (Perceive) are flawed, then the actions are sure to be garbage much of the time.

But thinking that medicine is a vast conspiracy of bad people trying to kill you and steal your wallet (not saying that you personally do/not think this, I don't know) is caricature.

That said, like any service profession, there are exceptions. I once stopped a nurse from killing my mother by pitching a fit, getting myself escorted out by police, but thereby invoking a mandatory (hospital policy) review of my mother's care by the medical ombudsman. She was out of that nurse's care in 20 minutes and in emergency surgery I had been agitating for all day. But even then, this was a deeply flawed person, and the far from perfect system actually intervened to do the right thing. And the nurse was banned from one of the US' largest hospital systems as a result. My close doctor friend helped me do this and coached me through some of the intricacies of hospital hierarchy to make it happen (he was 2000 miles away so he couldn't have practically intervened directly).

Anything "for profit" cannot be blindly trusted when it comes to our health. While the actions of the medical community at large may not always be purposely nefarious - it's the business angle that inherently corrupts the decision making process.

Not only that, but the medical institution itself is heavily compartmentalized and as you said some are just following what they're taught/told.
 

tankasnowgod

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tankasnowgod

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But thinking that medicine is a vast conspiracy of bad people trying to kill you and steal your wallet (not saying that you personally do/not think this, I don't know) is caricature.

Is it really that far fetched? The Medical Profession offers very dangerous "treatments" at high prices.

A course of radiation for cancer can cost up to $18,000 according to this review- Variation in the Cost of Radiation Therapy Among Medicare Patients With Cancer

The drug Humira, which works by suppressing your immune system, can cost up to $5,000 a month.

Blood Thinners like Xarelto, Warfarin, and Eliquis cost far more than Aspirin, Vitamin E, and Serotonin Antagonists like Cyproheptadine. And the later three are older and much safer.

You can find many other examples of high priced treatments that are incredibly dangerous, like vioxx and statins, with just some cursory research.
 

dfspcc20

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Is it really that far fetched? The Medical Profession offers very dangerous "treatments" at high prices.

A course of radiation for cancer can cost up to $18,000 according to this review- Variation in the Cost of Radiation Therapy Among Medicare Patients With Cancer

The drug Humira, which works by suppressing your immune system, can cost up to $5,000 a month.

Blood Thinners like Xarelto, Warfarin, and Eliquis cost far more than Aspirin, Vitamin E, and Serotonin Antagonists like Cyproheptadine. And the later three are older and much safer.

You can find many other examples of high priced treatments that are incredibly dangerous, like vioxx and statins, with just some cursory research.

I think @managing & @JDreamer are saying it's more the system as a whole that's suspect, rather than the individuals. Namely, having to operate in an environment where turning a significant profit is a necessity.
 

managing

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@managing I enjoyed your input.
That is a concerning example, I have experience with my late Mother, she had Alzheimer's and some care she got was poor, I won't go further.

What's the expression 'It only takes one bad apple to spoil the apple cart', but yeah, your right it is the system, but don't a lot of medical practitioners have 'closed' minds to alternate treatments?, how many have even heard of Ray Peat, for example??
Most definitely, my friend included. They are trained to believe that anything not mainstream is a threat to their patients. It is a threat to their authority too, but for an individual to understand how they are blind to the things they do to protect their own best interest is hard to do. I don't talk about Ray Peat or his ideas w/ my friend. It is the last thing he would be open minded about.
 
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Most definitely, my friend included. They are trained to believe that anything not mainstream is a threat to their patients. It is a threat to their authority too, but for an individual to understand how they are blind to the things they do to protect their own best interest is hard to do. I don't talk about Ray Peat or his ideas w/ my friend. It is the last thing he would be open minded about.
And that kinda makes me sad :(
 

tankasnowgod

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I think @managing & @JDreamer are saying it's more the system as a whole that's suspect, rather than the individuals. Namely, having to operate in an environment where turning a significant profit is a necessity.

Most definitely, my friend included. They are trained to believe that anything not mainstream is a threat to their patients. It is a threat to their authority too, but for an individual to understand how they are blind to the things they do to protect their own best interest is hard to do. I don't talk about Ray Peat or his ideas w/ my friend. It is the last thing he would be open minded about.

But "The System" is still run and created by humans, even at the highest levels. It was not handed down to us by God. A plan or conspiracy doesn't have to be "vast," meaning that it includes potentially millions of people who are all "in" on it. It could be a much smaller group, numbering in the hundreds or so, with key positions- Heads of agencies like the CDC and FDA, CEOs of Big Pharma companies like Merck, Heads of Medical Journals, a few trade organizations like the AMA, Heads of University Medical Departments, and so on.

The average doctor certainly doesn't have to be aware of any greater plans or medical conspiracy. If they do start to question some of the usual practices and treatments, it's often after years/decades of practice, at which point they are often financially compelled to continue to "go with the flow," thanks to debt, income, and threats of financial and professional ruin. I'm sure doctors are aware of dissidents like Peter Duesberg and Suzanne Humphries, and how they were treated.
 

managing

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Anything "for profit" cannot be blindly trusted when it comes to our health. While the actions of the medical community at large may not always be purposely nefarious - it's the business angle that inherently corrupts the decision making process.

Not only that, but the medical institution itself is heavily compartmentalized and as you said some are just following what they're taught/told.
Yes, I agree with this.
 

managing

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Is it really that far fetched? The Medical Profession offers very dangerous "treatments" at high prices.

A course of radiation for cancer can cost up to $18,000 according to this review- Variation in the Cost of Radiation Therapy Among Medicare Patients With Cancer

The drug Humira, which works by suppressing your immune system, can cost up to $5,000 a month.

Blood Thinners like Xarelto, Warfarin, and Eliquis cost far more than Aspirin, Vitamin E, and Serotonin Antagonists like Cyproheptadine. And the later three are older and much safer.

You can find many other examples of high priced treatments that are incredibly dangerous, like vioxx and statins, with just some cursory research.
Yes, it is far-fetched.

A corrupt system being exploited by individuals and turning out poor quality, or even harmful treatments? Yes. A vast conspiracy of bad people? No. Ask yourself this: Do doctors and other health care professionals subject themselves and their loved ones to these treatments? Yes, overwhelmingly the answer is yes. That speaks more about motives and intentions than anything else can.
 

managing

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But "The System" is still run and created by humans, even at the highest levels. It was not handed down to us by God. A plan or conspiracy doesn't have to be "vast," meaning that it includes potentially millions of people who are all "in" on it. It could be a much smaller group, numbering in the hundreds or so, with key positions- Heads of agencies like the CDC and FDA, CEOs of Big Pharma companies like Merck, Heads of Medical Journals, a few trade organizations like the AMA, Heads of University Medical Departments, and so on.

The average doctor certainly doesn't have to be aware of any greater plans or medical conspiracy. If they do start to question some of the usual practices and treatments, it's often after years/decades of practice, at which point they are often financially compelled to continue to "go with the flow," thanks to debt, income, and threats of financial and professional ruin. I'm sure doctors are aware of dissidents like Peter Duesberg and Suzanne Humphries, and how they were treated.
I don't really disagree with any of this. The problem I think is more that people (here) get so used to the idea of the system's dysfunction that they start speaking in hyperbole and acting as if everybody is in on it.
 

Ledo

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Is it really that far fetched? The Medical Profession offers very dangerous "treatments" at high prices.

A course of radiation for cancer can cost up to $18,000 according to this review- Variation in the Cost of Radiation Therapy Among Medicare Patients With Cancer

The drug Humira, which works by suppressing your immune system, can cost up to $5,000 a month.

Blood Thinners like Xarelto, Warfarin, and Eliquis cost far more than Aspirin, Vitamin E, and Serotonin Antagonists like Cyproheptadine. And the later three are older and much safer.

You can find many other examples of high priced treatments that are incredibly dangerous, like vioxx and statins, with just some cursory research.
The "good doctors" who payed the price and made it into the system did so by filtering out the cognitive dissonance ultimately becoming brainwashed as a survival mechanism. That and the inflated self esteem - downright strange ego trip makes the whole thing bearable for them. Otherwise the realities you present hurt too much.
 

dfspcc20

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But "The System" is still run and created by humans, even at the highest levels. It was not handed down to us by God. A plan or conspiracy doesn't have to be "vast," meaning that it includes potentially millions of people who are all "in" on it. It could be a much smaller group, numbering in the hundreds or so, with key positions- Heads of agencies like the CDC and FDA, CEOs of Big Pharma companies like Merck, Heads of Medical Journals, a few trade organizations like the AMA, Heads of University Medical Departments, and so on.

The average doctor certainly doesn't have to be aware of any greater plans or medical conspiracy. If they do start to question some of the usual practices and treatments, it's often after years/decades of practice, at which point they are often financially compelled to continue to "go with the flow," thanks to debt, income, and threats of financial and professional ruin. I'm sure doctors are aware of dissidents like Peter Duesberg and Suzanne Humphries, and how they were treated.

Don't underestimate the possibility of the "system", or the nexus of interconnected systems (money, politics, medicine, industry, etc), taking on a life of its own and becoming self-perpetuating. Yes, it lives through (and evolves though) humans, but I doubt any one person or group of people set out to cause so much misery.

You brought up debt. I think it, and the current system of money creation in general (as interest-bearing debt), is at the heart of the problem. But again I don't think anyone (group or individual) consciously created that system intending to get the world into the state it is currently in. An analogy might be like Goethe's Sorcerer's Apprentice, but in this case, the sorcerer himself is long since dead (and he didn't really think out the consequences of his magic anyway). The apprentices are just frantically doing what they know to keep the system from consuming itself and everything around it.
 
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jb116

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But "The System" is still run and created by humans, even at the highest levels. It was not handed down to us by God. A plan or conspiracy doesn't have to be "vast," meaning that it includes potentially millions of people who are all "in" on it. It could be a much smaller group, numbering in the hundreds or so, with key positions- Heads of agencies like the CDC and FDA, CEOs of Big Pharma companies like Merck, Heads of Medical Journals, a few trade organizations like the AMA, Heads of University Medical Departments, and so on.

The average doctor certainly doesn't have to be aware of any greater plans or medical conspiracy. If they do start to question some of the usual practices and treatments, it's often after years/decades of practice, at which point they are often financially compelled to continue to "go with the flow," thanks to debt, income, and threats of financial and professional ruin. I'm sure doctors are aware of dissidents like Peter Duesberg and Suzanne Humphries, and how they were treated.
Thanks for saying this. I am constantly frustrated by conversations with people who find incredulity in conspiratorial thinking chalking it up to "not everybody can be in on it." My response is always everybody is not in on it, and in fact the less people, the better. Only the wealthiest and most powerful need to be in on it while creating obfuscation, confusing, and murkiness for the rest.
 

managing

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Thanks for saying this. I am constantly frustrated by conversations with people who find incredulity in conspiratorial thinking chalking it up to "not everybody can be in on it." My response is always everybody is not in on it, and in fact the less people, the better. Only the wealthiest and most powerful need to be in on it while creating obfuscation, confusing, and murkiness for the rest.
But a distinction has to be made. What we are talking about in regard to medicine is different from say "Hilary Clinton is running a child pornography ring out of a DC pizza restaurant" or "the new world order is using black helicopters with heat rays to start CA wildfires".

Those really would require so many people to not only be "in on it" but also not to leak any actual information.

Inevitably somebody will say "But there is this youtube video where somebody admits it . . ." But these things eventually defy incredulity. Medical - industrial complex? Sure. Alien lizard people imprisoning us all in "the matrix" . . . not so much.
 

tankasnowgod

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Don't underestimate the possibility of the "system", or the nexus of interconnected systems (money, politics, medicine, industry, etc), taking on a life of its own and becoming self-perpetuating. Yes, it lives through (and evolves though) humans, but I doubt any one person or group of people set out to cause so much misery.

Really? No person or group of people? What about historical examples that prove otherwise?

List Of Dictatorships By Death Toll - The Top 10 Biggest Mass Killings In History - About History

What about serial killers like Ted Bundy, Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer? No one sets out to hurt other people deliberately?

You brought up debt. I think it, and the current system of money creation in general (as interest-bearing debt), is at the heart of the problem. But again I don't think anyone (group or individual) consciously created that system intending to get the world into the state it is currently in. An analogy might be like Goethe's Sorcerer's Apprentice, but in this case, the sorcerer himself is long since dead (and he didn't really think out the consequences of his magic anyway). The apprentices are just frantically doing what they know to keep the system from consuming itself and everything around it.

Really? So, in the United States, you just believe that The Federal Reserve Act, HJR 192, and the "Trading With The Enemy" Act just wrote themselves?
 

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