Determining Effect Of Diet On Metabolism And Weight Loss/Gain Through Data Collection

[ilikecats]

@Cirion how much weight have you lost so far?

 

[Cirion]

@Cirion how much weight have you lost so far?

So I hesitate to answer this question, because I am 100% certain that people are going to pounce on my answer as "See, you're wrong", but I have fluctuated the same +/- 5 lbs for like a month now.

So before the ^^ above predictable answer comes, I still know I'm right, because while the weight has fluctuated up and down the past month, so has my body temperatures, and virtually every day my body temp and pulse is bad, so is my weight. So, fix the body temps and pulses, fix the weight. That's why I am obsessed with getting my temp and pulses perfect. I know there are loads of doubters, but I remain 100% confident that when I get consistent 98.6F temp and 85 bpm pulse each and every day without fail, that the weight loss will finally become consistently on a downward trend.

However, I will concede that in order to make other people also 100% confident, the proof must be in the pudding, and that is completely fair. That is in fact why I created this thread and started tracking data, to get to the bottom of how can I get temp and pulse up EVERY day, not just every other day or so (Which is how it is currently). You can't restore a metabolism, and lose weight correctly, without having the temp and pulse up EVERY day not just twice a week.

All that said, I had one day two months ago where I felt fantastic, the best I have in almost a year. And guess what. On that day my 3 day-rolling average body temp was 98.45F (so almost 98.6f avg 3 day in a row), and waking pulse was 90 bpm. (Unfortunately, back then I didn't have enough pulse data to calculate the 3 day rolling avg pulse, but did have the waking pulse for that specific day)

 

[ilikecats]

@Cirion okay yeah that's what it kind of seemed like just wanted to be sure. Wrong about what? Thats you don't need a deficit through dieting or exercise to lose weight? Ray and quite a few others have shown that weight gain its due to hypothyroidism and that weight loss will occur when oxidative metabolism is fixed. You're basically saying the same thing just emphasizing specific details. I'm certainly in agreement with this I've lost about 25 pounds now while being very sedentary and eating massive amounts of food (5000-7000 calories). But this was after gaining quite a lot from going from a lot of endurance exercise and intermittent fasting (basically I was hypo to start with and then made myself more hypo with those two things among others) to eating pro metabolic.

 

[Cirion]

@Cirion okay yeah that's what it kind of seemed like just wanted to be sure. Wrong about what? Thats you don't need a deficit through dieting or exercise to lose weight? Ray and quite a few others have shown that weight gain its due to hypothyroidism and that weight loss will occur when oxidative metabolism is fixed. You're basically saying the same thing just emphasizing specific details. I'm certainly in agreement with this I've lost about 25 pounds now while being very sedentary and eating massive amounts of food (5000-7000 calories). But this was after gaining quite a lot going from a lot of endurance exercise and intermittent fasting to eating pro metabolic.

Thank you. Finally someone else who realizes it is hypothyroidism that causes weight gain not excessive calories. Most people, even on these forums, are still obsessed with the traditional calories model.

I am starting to see the same thing man. I need to eat like 4000+ calories of just carbs, which is what my data is leading me to.

 

[ilikecats]

@Cirion Yeah definitely people knock it all the time here. I see very few people here properly applying the vast myriad of pro metabolic methods that Peat has mentioned (REALLY) diligently and consistently. It certainly takes quite a while for things to normalize and to lose weight... and this is coming from someone who applies these different methods constantly around the clock. But Im sure you'll lose the weight but it will probably take longer than you think. But its a good and significant first step that you stopped gaining WHILE eating the way you do. Often people on here fall back to some degree of caloric restriction to halt their weight loss.

I know you're not applying quite a few of rays ideas and you're differing on some things but the results (weight loss) should still be there once you normalize oxidative metabolism which can still be done without helpful things like cascara thyroid etc...

 

[Cirion]

@Cirion Yeah definitely people knock it all the time here. I see very few people here properly applying the vast myriad of pro metabolic methods that Peat has mentioned (REALLY) diligently and consistently. It certainly takes quite a while for things to normalize and to lose weight... and this is coming from someone who applies these different methods constantly around the clock. But Im sure you'll lose the weight but it will probably take longer than you think. But its a good and significant first step that you stopped gaining WHILE eating the way you do. Often people on here fall back to some degree of caloric restriction to halt their weight loss.

I agree. I myself thought I was doing good because I got my temps and pulses up high every day and was getting fatter by the day so I was like well Ray is wrong. But the thing is, I realized these past few weeks that the waking body temperature and pulse matters actually far more than any temperature or pulse you get during the day (But of course, you do need to remain high temp and pulse in the day too of course) and that you're only fooling yourself thinking you're doing good if WAKING body temp and pulse aren't also good.

I know it will take time to lose the weight and I'm perfectly fine with that, I just wanna finally get rolling in the right direction. But yeah, even though I haven't lost weight significantly yet, just the fact I have more or less normalized my weight on 4000-5500 calories a day is HUGE. The nice thing is, you can actually feel REALLY GOOD even while morbidly obese like me. I had a day two months ago where I felt FANTASTIC, and it was after having a 3-day rolling avg of waking temp of 98.45F and 90 bpm pulse. I'm more than happy feeling like I did that day, and know it'll only get better as I get leaner and healthier.

 

[Vinny]

people are going to pounce on my answer as "See, you're wrong"

Me - never!

 

[Jack Corbett]

@Cirion agree with your point about maintaining your weight on 4000-5500 being massive. take solace in the fact that if you continue to do things as diligently as you currently are you will keep dropping down in weight while maintaining a high metabolism, down the line youll be lean and with a fast metabolism; the ultimate goal.

 

[Cirion]

@Cirion agree with your point about maintaining your weight on 4000-5500 being massive. take solace in the fact that if you continue to do things as diligently as you currently are you will keep dropping down in weight while maintaining a high metabolism, down the line youll be lean and with a fast metabolism; the ultimate goal.

Yes. Exactly this. I have been lean many times in my life, but rarely felt good doing so. My ultimate goal is indeed to be lean AND feel good with a high metabolism. I have always wanted to be "That Guy" that can pound food all day long and yet not get fat. I will be proof that the "Genetics" excuse is BS and it all boils down to metabolism.

 

[Jack Corbett]

Very achievable for you if your given trajectory keeps up; at present im probably tilted a bit more on the spectrum being 170ILB and 6 ft 1 with a decent amount of muscle mass and very lean, metabolism on the up but still suboptimal, i was as low as 140ilb when doing endurance running; absolutely miserable, thank god i listened to durianrider about pounding the carbs exclusively instead of an eating disorder centre dietician telling me to eat loads of PUFA laden junk food as the high calories would help me "heal" lol.

 

[opson123]

I agree, being lean isn't really a good indicator of health. I'm lean, no fat whatsoever and feel like ***t. My tolerance to exercise is also abysmal. A trip to the grocery store leaves me recovering for a couple of days.

As someone with severe ocd, your approach clicks well with me. This organized system really calms me down lol. Hope you figure it all out.

 

[Cirion]

I agree, being lean isn't really a good indicator of health. I'm lean, no fat whatsoever and feel like ***t. My tolerance to exercise is also abysmal. A trip to the grocery store leaves me recovering for a couple of days.

As someone with severe ocd, your approach clicks well with me. This organized system really calms me down lol. Hope you figure it all out.

Yes. I've been there. I used to maintain a super lean body on anywhere from 1500-2500 calories a day. Even 2500 calories is too low for a male, probably even a female, even for someone who is sedentary let alone active and lifts weights. I wish I could slap my younger self repeatedly for being so stupid.

 

[tca300]

Actually 2 of the points indicate no weight gain.

Also in terms of data science, I don't believe there are enough observations to draw reliable conclusions. Still interesting to surmise from, though.

I'm particularly intrigued by your thoughts on tryptophan preventing weightloss, as many people here use milk/dairy as their main protein source, and many peaters also experience unflattering weightgain. If this is true, that tryptophan heavily promotes serotonin synthesis, then why would it be that so many report getting high temperatures and weight loss from milk, while others do not? @tca300 for example, drinks essentially nothing but milk in his diet, and has been able to lose fat and stay lean.

I drink 2+ gallons of milk every day, and have for well over a year. Before that I drank 1 gallon every day for several years. Milk has never made me fat. Regular over consumption of calories is what causes fat gain no matter the foods eaten.

 

[SB4]

I drink 2+ gallons of milk every day

Is that 8 liters of milk?

 

[Cirion]

I drink 2+ gallons of milk every day, and have for well over a year. Before that I drank 1 gallon every day for several years. Milk has never made me fat. Regular over consumption of calories is what causes fat gain no matter the foods eaten.

Nah man that hasn't proven true for me. Over consumption of bad foods causes fat gain. There is generally speaking a caloric threshold at which point fat gain begins with any diet, but this threshold can be increased by picking the right foods. I am sure some people do handle milk better than some others, but I'm starting to think that even the people who seemingly do well on milk could probably increase their caloric threshold higher by not drinking milk. I know Hans has found this to be true. He is one of the healthier forum members here, and even he said milk made him get fatter. From what I've seen around here, the only people drinking milk and not getting fat are probably also restricting calories to 3000 or less, so I'd be curious how many calories you consume. I've long since disproven the basic "CICO" model (which assumes that there is a simple caloric limit for people regardless of macros, micros etc.) from my data gathering considering I have a few 3000 calorie days I gained weight and a few high 4000 to even 5400 calorie days where I lost weight. The last 3 days in a row I've had over 1,000 gram of carb and yet lost weight. I am very eager to get 3-4 more days in a row, to finally put the final nail in the coffin of "CICO" so it can finally die and be buried once and for all.

 

[tca300]

Nah man that hasn't proven true for me. Over consumption of bad foods causes fat gain. There is generally speaking a caloric threshold at which point fat gain begins with any diet, but this threshold can be increased by picking the right foods. I am sure some people do handle milk better than some others, but I'm starting to think that even the people who seemingly do well on milk could probably increase their caloric threshold higher by not drinking milk. I know Hans has found this to be true. He is one of the healthier forum members here, and even he said milk made him get fatter. From what I've seen around here, the only people drinking milk and not getting fat are probably also restricting calories to 3000 or less, so I'd be curious how many calories you consume. I've long since disproven the basic "CICO" model (which assumes that there is a simple caloric limit for people regardless of macros, micros etc.) from my data gathering considering I have a few 3000 calorie days I gained weight and a few high 4000 to even 5400 calorie days where I lost weight. The last 3 days in a row I've had over 1,000 gram of carb and yet lost weight. I am very eager to get 3-4 more days in a row, to finally put the final nail in the coffin of "CICO" so it can finally die and be buried once and for all.

I drink 3400+ calories per day from milk, I have many bodybuilder friends who cut to <5% bodyfat regularly on fast food.

My job is exactly helping people lose fat. If I didn't know what I was talking about my daughters would be living on the street.

 

[Cirion]

I drink 3400+ calories per day from milk, I have many bodybuilder friends who cut to <5% bodyfat regularly on fast food.

My job is exactly helping people lose fat. If I didn't know what I was talking about my daughters would be living on the street.

That's good man and clearly it's working for you. BTW I have extensive experience "Cutting" too, in fact getting to <5% bodyfat too, I know virtually all the powerlifting and bodybuilding and fitness lingo, and there's a HUGE difference between losing fat and getting a healthy metabolism. Losing fat can be done in the absence of a healthy metabolism, but a healthy metabolism always results in losing fat. In fact I ruined my health from doing all that "Cutting" nonsense. So I'll just agree to disagree, since I know both of us are entrenched in our belief sets. But stay tuned in a few weeks/months when I have more data which I feel confident is gonna solidify my views =)

 

[tca300]

That's good man and clearly it's working for you. BTW I have extensive experience "Cutting" too, in fact getting to <5% bodyfat too, I know virtually all the powerlifting and bodybuilding and fitness lingo, and there's a HUGE difference between losing fat and getting a healthy metabolism. Losing fat can be done in the absence of a healthy metabolism, but a healthy metabolism always results in losing fat. In fact I ruined my health from doing all that "Cutting" nonsense. So I'll just agree to disagree, since I know both of us are entrenched in our belief sets. But stay tuned in a few weeks/months when I have more data which I feel confident is gonna solidify my views =)

The argument wasn't about healthy metabolism, it was about fat loss. I never claimed fat loss equals better health. I base what I currently believe on evidence, not what I wish to be true. Good luck! I hope you achieve what you set out too.

 

[Cirion]

The argument wasn't about healthy metabolism, it was about fat loss. I never claimed fat loss equals better health. I base what I currently believe on evidence, not what I wish to be true. Good luck! I hope you achieve what you set out too.

Ah, gotcha. fair enough man. Same here, Evidence and data is king, hence this topic =)

Thanks man! Cheers

 

[sladerunner69]

I drink 2+ gallons of milk every day, and have for well over a year. Before that I drank 1 gallon every day for several years. Milk has never made me fat. Regular over consumption of calories is what causes fat gain no matter the foods eaten.

Fascinating... could I ask is there a minimum quality of milk you will drink? Organic or A2, for example? Or do you drink conventional milk as well.