For every 10% loss of body weight via underfeeding lowers metabolism 15%

NathanK

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Interesting study. For every 10% of body weight lost due to underfeeding the subjects lowered their metabolism 15%.

Changes in Energy Expenditure Resulting from Altered Body Weight
Full text: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NE ... #t=article

"....Many obese people who lose weight have metabolic alterations similar to those observed in our subjects. The reduction in energy expenditure to a level 15 percent below that predicted for body composition, as a result of a 10 percent (or larger) decrease in body weight, is large when one considers that an average daily intake of 2500 kcal would be associated with a positive energy balance of approximately 375 kcal per day. In addition, the sense of hunger or dysphoria that may accompany this state of reduced energy expenditure will promote increased food intake, further widening the gap between energy output and intake.3 Physicians should be aware that for some obese patients the achievement of what is considered to be a more healthful body weight may be accompanied by metabolic alterations that make it difficult to maintain the lower weight. Nevertheless, the beneficial effect of even a modest weight loss on lipid and carbohydrate metabolism in obese patients40,41 justifies persistent efforts at weight reduction and maintenance of a reduced body weight for the treatment of obesity."
 

jyb

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I am not sure if "metabolism" here is as useful as we think as a health indicator. If I added some junk food to my diet and my metabolism increased, is the overfeeding useful? The body may increase the metabolism as something that looks like a stress response. And after a long while doing this, with the harm that such food would do, my metabolism would deteriorate. And vice versa, reducing the junk food portion of my diet may reduce my metabolism if it reduced the calorie count, but in the long term I would expect it to be good for some aspects of my metabolism. That seems to be the case according to studies on weight loss, light exercise and improved blood sugar control. Which may seem paradoxical as being starved is not good either, but the paradox might disappear if we just measured the effect on "good" metabolism not just the rate.
 

michael94

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After the initial-weight studies described above, 9 obese subjects and 11 nonobese subjects were fed 800 kcal of the dietary formula per day until their body weight had been reduced to a level that was 10 percent below their initial weight (Figure 1). (Eight of the obese and one of the nonobese subjects had previously undergone studies after a 10 percent gain in weight.) The period of weight loss ranged from 4 to 7 weeks for the nonobese subjects and from 6 to 14 weeks for the obese subjects. When the subjects had lost 10 percent of their initial weight, the formula was reinstated and adjusted to maintain the weight for at least 14 days; the studies described above were then repeated. Ten obese subjects who had undergone initial-weight studies (seven of whom were also studied after a 10 percent weight loss) were fed 800 kcal of dietary formula per day until they had lost 20 percent of their initial weight. The studies described above were performed after their weight had stabilized at the lower level.

and the formula

The subjects were admitted to the Clinical Research Center at Rockefeller University and fed a liquid formula (40 percent fat [corn oil], 45 percent carbohydrate [glucose polymer], and 15 percent protein [casein hydrolysate])

Crap diet and s*** for protein. They were on 30 grams of protein per day, just absolutely retarded researchers unless they specifically wanted to see the effects of such stupidity, which was not made clear anywhere unless I missed it
 

NathanK

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icecreamlover said:
post 105349
After the initial-weight studies described above, 9 obese subjects and 11 nonobese subjects were fed 800 kcal of the dietary formula per day until their body weight had been reduced to a level that was 10 percent below their initial weight (Figure 1). (Eight of the obese and one of the nonobese subjects had previously undergone studies after a 10 percent gain in weight.) The period of weight loss ranged from 4 to 7 weeks for the nonobese subjects and from 6 to 14 weeks for the obese subjects. When the subjects had lost 10 percent of their initial weight, the formula was reinstated and adjusted to maintain the weight for at least 14 days; the studies described above were then repeated. Ten obese subjects who had undergone initial-weight studies (seven of whom were also studied after a 10 percent weight loss) were fed 800 kcal of dietary formula per day until they had lost 20 percent of their initial weight. The studies described above were performed after their weight had stabilized at the lower level.

and the formula

The subjects were admitted to the Clinical Research Center at Rockefeller University and fed a liquid formula (40 percent fat [corn oil], 45 percent carbohydrate [glucose polymer], and 15 percent protein [casein hydrolysate])

Crap diet and s*** for protein. They were on 30 grams of protein per day, just absolutely retarded researchers unless they specifically wanted to see the effects of such stupidity, which was not made clear anywhere unless I missed it
Who's to say that the obese weren't eating a similar diet beforehand?. I kid, but that "formula" sounds a lot like a liquified Domino's Pizza to me
 
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Makrosky

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According to wikipedia corn oil is 55% PUFA so 20% of the daily food was pure PUFA plus no micronutrients... Woah!!! No wonder they saw the metabolism getting slow...
 

tara

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icecreamlover said:
post 105349
After the initial-weight studies described above, 9 obese subjects and 11 nonobese subjects were fed 800 kcal of the dietary formula per day until their body weight had been reduced to a level that was 10 percent below their initial weight
...
Ten obese subjects who had undergone initial-weight studies (seven of whom were also studied after a 10 percent weight loss) were fed 800 kcal of dietary formula per day until they had lost 20 percent of their initial weight. The studies described above were performed after their weight had stabilized at the lower level
....
The subjects were admitted to the Clinical Research Center at Rockefeller University and fed a liquid formula (40 percent fat [corn oil], 45 percent carbohydrate [glucose polymer], and 15 percent protein [casein hydrolysate])

Crap diet and s*** for protein. They were on 30 grams of protein per day, just absolutely retarded researchers unless they specifically wanted to see the effects of such stupidity, which was not made clear anywhere unless I missed it

Ethics committee, hellooooo, ethics committee. Over here.

NathanK said:
post 105340 Nevertheless, the beneficial effect of even a modest weight loss on lipid and carbohydrate metabolism in obese patients40,41 justifies persistent efforts at weight reduction and maintenance of a reduced body weight for the treatment of obesity.
I haven't read the study. Was this referring to any direct evidence of improved health, or just to presumptions based on some short-term biomarker measurements, or just presumptions?
 
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NathanK

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tara said:
NathanK said:
post 105340 Nevertheless, the beneficial effect of even a modest weight loss on lipid and carbohydrate metabolism in obese patients40,41 justifies persistent efforts at weight reduction and maintenance of a reduced body weight for the treatment of obesity.
I haven't read the study. Was this referring to any direct evidence of improved health, or just to presumptions based on some short-term biomarker measurements, or just presumptions?
Here's a quick copy and paste job on the studies they referenced. I didn't read, :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4357 ... t=Abstract
Effects of weight reduction on obesity. Studies of lipid and carbohydrate metabolism in normal and hyperlipoproteinemic subjects.
Olefsky J, Reaven GM, Farquhar JW.
Abstract
Considerable controversy exists over the purported role of obesity in causing hyperglycemia, hyperlipemia, hyperinsulinemia, and insulin resistance; and the potential beneficial effects of weight reduction remain incompletely defined. Hypertriglyceridemia is one of the metabolic abnormalities proposed to accompany obesity, and in order to help explain the mechanisms leading to this abnormality we have proposed the following sequential hypothesis: insulin resistance --> hyperinsulinemia --> accelerated hepatic triglyceride(TG) production --> elevated plasma TG concentrations. To test this hypothesis and to gain insight into both the possible role of obesity in causing the above metabolic abnormalities and the potential benefit of weight reduction we studied the effects of weight loss on various aspects of carbohydrate and lipid metabolism in a group of 36 normal and hyperlipoproteinemic subjects. Only weak to absent correlations (r = 0.03 - 0.46) were noted between obesity and the metabolic variables measured. This points out that in our study group obesity cannot be the sole, or even the major, cause of these abnormalities in the first place. Further, we have observed marked decreases after weight reduction in fasting plasma TG (mean value: pre-weight reduction, 319 mg/100 ml; post-weight reduction, 180 mg/100 ml) and cholesterol (mean values: pre-weight reduction, 282 mg/100 ml; post-weight reduction, 223 mg/100 ml) levels, with a direct relationship between the magnitude of the fall in plasma lipid values and the height of the initial plasma TG level. We have also noted significant decreases after weight reduction in the insulin and glucose responses during the oral glucose tolerance test (37% decrease and 12% decrease, respectively). Insulin and glucose responses to liquid food before and after weight reduction were also measured and the overall post-weight reduction decrease in insulin response was 48% while the glucose response was relatively unchanged. In a subgroup of patients we studied both the degree of cellular insulin resistance and the rate of hepatic very low density (VLDL) TG production before and after weight reduction. These subjects demonstrated significant decreases after weight reduction in both degree of insulin resistance (33% decrease) and VLDL-TG production rates (40% decrease). Thus, weight reduction has lowered each of the antecedent variables (insulin resistance, hyperinsulinemia, and VLDL-TG production) that according to the above hypothesis lead to hypertriglyceridemia, and we believe the overall scheme is greatly strengthened. Furthermore, the consistent decreases in plasma TG and cholesterol levels seen in all subjects lead us to conclude that weight reduction is an important therapeutic modality for patients with endogenous hypertriglyceridemia.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3546 ... t=Abstract
Effects of weight loss in massive obesity on insulin and C-peptide dynamics: sequential changes in insulin production, clearance, and sensitivity.
Jimenez J, Zuniga-Guajardo S, Zinman B, Angel A.
Abstract
In massively obese patients hyperinsulinemia and insulin insensitivity usually improve with weight loss. To clarify the mechanism of these reversible abnormalities eight nondiabetic massively obese patients were studied before and at intervals (3 months and 1 yr) after weight loss following gastroplasty. Insulin dynamics were studied during the hyperglycemic clamp (change in glucose, 7 mmol L-1 for 2 h) by measuring the area under the insulin and C-peptide response curves, representing, respectively, systemic insulin response and insulin production. Compared to lean age-matched normal subjects the massively obese patients had the expected fasting hyperinsulinemia and an exaggerated insulin response (P less than 0.05). Within 3 months and after an approximately 20% weight loss, they had a marked reduction in the systemic insulin response but no change in the C-peptide response. Therefore, the reduction in insulin response was due to enhanced hepatic insulin clearance rather than reduced insulin production. Thus, the liver serves a gate-keeping role in regulating the systemic insulin response to a glucose challenge. With additional weight loss of 14% and then weight maintenance, insulin clearance was further increased, and a reduction in insulin production became evident, since the C-peptide response was reduced. Exogenous insulin clearance was measured using the euglycemic clamp technique before and after weight loss. Insulin clearance was initially lower in the massively obese patients compared to that in the normal subjects (P less than 0.05) and increased toward normal with weight loss (P less than 0.05). Similarly, insulin sensitivity, as measured by the ratio of glucose metabolised per U endogenous insulin, normalized with weight loss and weight maintenance. Thus, after significant weight loss followed by weight maintenance at a reduced, but not ideal, level, insulin clearance, production, and sensitivity all reverted to normal. These findings suggest that adipose mass per se may not be exclusively responsible for altered insulin and glucose dynamics in obesity and that additional factors associated with obesity, such as nutrient load, adipose distribution, fat cell size, or fatty acid flux, play a contributing role.

Such_Saturation said:
post 105405 Interesting posts NathanK !
Thanks, dude. I've learned a lot from you guys the past year plus. Just decided to start posting. Interestingly, I saw this study referenced in a Seth Robert's study he had published.

I randomly started reading his book earlier this week to see what his "Shangri La Diet" was all about. I knew it was about self experimentation and that he died of a heart attack while hiking a couple years ago. Two things I noticed about the book.

1. It was very sad. I can't help but feel it was like reading a recipe to dying and knowing Ray's work you might be able to see how. He started drinking tasteless sugar water to lose weight and it worked wonderfully. He then moved on to Extra Light Olive oil and wrote glowingly about the positives of PUFA on heart health. I read elsewhere that toward the end of his life he was consuming massive amounts of fish oil and then flax seed oil.

2. Following his hypothesis of consuming things that we had not acquired a calorie association to in order to lose weight, I can see how Ray was able to suddenly lose 10lbs on refined coconut oil after 25 years. I'm not so sure it's just removing thyroid blocking effects, but possibly the reason Seth was able to "reset" his baseline weight. Ray was taking up to 6tsp of C.O., which is equivalent of the amount of oil Seth took to lose weight (often he doubled that up to 4 tbsp). Except he used just about any tasteless oil. Interesting. I only wish that people who talk about weight loss would include BF% instead as I think that's a much better goal.
 
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