Drinking Coke Freely Quadruples Calorie Intake WITHOUT Weight Gain

Jarman

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I don't post often here, but what tyw is saying and what your realizing it seems is what is true for most people. IMO, the body's response to diet in gaining weight is telling the person, you have excess caloric consumption and/or you are metabolically compromised; therefore if people who are "peating" are gaining weight hand over fist, then your body is basically telling you what you are doing is wrong "for you".

Part of the problem with looking at weight and body composition as a measure for health is, there are plenty of fat people who are far healthier eating calorie restricted diets vs skinny people who consume calorie dense diets. Meaning a hypo-thyroid diet is trumping a hyper-thyroid diet for health and longevity. But again, before the attacks start, remember what your body is built to do.. survive, and last, even at the expense of your own well being. As people age, they metabolically slow down, their ticker slows down, their BMR slows down, and this is all in the name of conservation, your body is doing this to increase it's longevity. When you go hypo-thyroid, which I assume many of us have here at some point, it isn't the most pleasant feeling. Cold, lethargic, run down, disinterested, just to name a few symptoms of what people experience. Sure you are increasing your longevity, but is it something you personally can live with? This is where it is up to the individual to decide what is the perfect balance for them. Go hypo-thyroid, hyper-thyroid, or somewhere in the middle, what is the most comfortable for them.

I went off on a tangent in regards to weight, but here is my point, if people want to look at weight loss/gain as measure of measures for health, then they should go visit another forum, the bodybuilding forums. Many many people there have astronomical success with weight loss (cutting as they call it), and bulking up. The thing is, their principals completely fly in the face of the principals we see here. You read any of the cutting success stories, it's ALWAYS the same thing with the same foods eaten and restricted. It's about calorie balance, consume less than what you expend (CICO), and what you expend is different than what someone else expends. The end result though is cutting calories, and I can tell people for certain that rarely anyone is able to shed weight eating a 3000 calorie diet. Not unless they are in their early 20's and already have a shredded look trying to get into single digit body fat %. Everybody is cutting it seems in the 1400-1800 range on rest days and 2000-2400 on exercise days. They also generally restrict all forms of sugar except minimal fruit when cutting. This is due to insulin response. They also heavily emphasize starchy carbs (oatmeal, rice, potatoes, sweet potatoes as carb sources, and generally restrict carbs on rest days, but are a little more liberal on exercise days. Many also practice some sort of intermittent fasting, whether it be a 12, 14, or 16 hour fast.

The point is, if people are looking at weight as a measure of how healthy they are, then they're in the wrong forum, they should be over in the bodybuilding forum looking at all the people are doing it there. The methods there are dead opposite as to what they are here. Calorie restriction, starch emphasis, sugar restriction, and exercise. I have literally only read one testimonial with accompanying pics of someone who lost weight eating a 3000 calorie daily diet, but even then it was restricted in sugar.

I responded specifically to your post because you mentioned Okinawan people have the longest longevity on the planet currently, by this I mean traditional Okinawa people. My girlfriends family is rooted to traditional Okinawa, and I can tell people with fact that their daily diets are that of a hypo-thyroid diet. I'd estimate they consume anywhere from 1000 to maybe 1400 calories daily on average, so I do believe it when you say they eat to 80 % full. If people want to look at an actual ongoing real world study of health and longevity and diets, then look at the Okinawan populace; hypo-thyroid diet. I've also mentioned this before on here in relation to testosterone and steroids, it's well known that people who consume steroids die considerably sooner, and steroids have a sole purpose, increasing Testosterone in turn increasing metabolism.. aka a drastic increase in metabolism as shown by the numerous roid users, die off quicker. Combine that knowledge with the okinawan longevity hypo-thyroid diet and we should have a clear picture here; increases in metabolism and cellular activity are linked to shortened lifespan.

Now after in saying all that, it brings me to another point tyw brought up, some sugar being good doesnt mean more sugar is better, and that is 100% the truth, and it's the truth for a lot of things. It's basically a trap people fall in, thinking one thing is good so more must be better, and we've all seen it and probably done it:

Paleo - People assume it's low carb and therefore the lower carb you eat, the better. No this isn't the case, it means eating whole foods for whatever your activity and lifestyle dictate. Many people assume low carb is better, that is not the case. They run themselves down, turn themselves severely hypo-thyroid and go on binges like nobody's business
Peating - People seem to the more sugar the better. Drink more OJ, drink more milk, drink more coke maybe?. Regardless, more is better because it lowers cortisol and increases metabolism, without any regard to what it might be doing to their liver, then wonder why they are gaining weight..

What ever happened to moderation and eating for one's lifestyle? "More" is not better, moderation is better.

Fascinating insight @WestCoaster , but I'm conflicted with you referring to calorie restriction as hypo-thyroid diet and skinny people as hypothyroid, because Ray Peat said otherwise in Calorie Restriction, PUFA, and Aging:

“Calorie-restricted animals (on a diet of normal composition) have a lower degree of fat unsaturation in their mitochondria as they age, preserving the relatively more saturated fats of youth.”

“In this culture that repeatedly makes such claims of essentiality, the growing number of reports of biological superiority of “deficient” animals suggests that nutritional research may be near the point at which it can resume the line of study begun by Northrup, Osborne, Mendel, Drummond, Bernstein, Elias, and others, that was interrupted for 60 years by industrial interests that promoted antiscientific opinions.

For example, in 1914 F.P. Rous showed that limiting food intake reduced the incidence of cancer, and then in 1915 and 1917, Osborne and Mendel showed that food restriction extended the fertility and longevity of female rats. The association between estrogen and cancer had become known during this time, and vitamin E, which was originally known as the fertility vitamin, was soon recognized to have antiestrogenic properties, as well as to prevent the deadly effects of excessive polyunsaturated fats in the diet. My endocrinology professor, A.S. Soderwall, who had found that excess estrogen prevented (or interrupted) pregnancy, demonstrated that increased vitamin E extended fertility in aging female rodents.

By the time I began my research, it seemed clear that it had been the reduction of PUFA in the diet which, like the addition of vitamin E, had prevented sterility in the calorie restriction experiments, and that those treatments had limited the effects of estrogen in the aging organisms.

“Caloric restriction does extend the life span of many species, but it generally preserves the high metabolic rate of youth, so that at a given age the calorie-restricted animal has a higher rate of oxygen consumption per gram of body weight than the unrestricted eaters


@tyw also said similar thing in his post at People With The Lowest Overall Mortality Are Overweight:

"Also, in my mind, "chronic calorie-restriction" means "PUFA depletion" -- you are constantly mobilising and getting rid of PUFAs when chronically calorie restricted. This PUFA depletion also pans out in animal experiments."

"Correspondingly, the "youth hormones" like DHEA remain higher in the Okinawans. IMO, this has everything to do with PUFA depletion and higher metabolic rate (calorie restriction reduces body mass, but increases metabolic rate per unit mass)."


So to recap, calorie restriction / Hara Hachi Bun Me does a few things:
- Depletes PUFA
- Promote higher metabolism
- Preserve DHEA naturally, without supplements
- Lower the damages from estrogen
- Being physically "young" at older age due to high DHEA

Aren't those things are what Peating is all about? We are all here wanting to rid of PUFA from our system and regain our metabolism back.

I'd argue that slight (20%) calorie restriction / Hara Hachi Bun Me is indeed Peating aka pro-Peat . I disagree that calorie restriction is hypo-thyroid diet. It's a pro high metabolism diet.

Obviously, I'm not referring to severe calorie restriction or starving to death or fasting. They're totally different.

I personally don't know any Okinawan IRL. Of all Okinawans you have met and known, do you think they are generally "Cold, lethargic, run down, disinterested" ?

Although, I do agree with you about consuming food in moderation. Not too much, not too little. And everyone's calorie consumption is different, per genetics, health situation and body proportion.
 

tyw

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@Jarman, note that I am in no way a proponent of chronic caloric restriction. The benefits are dubious at best, and my personal experience is that people don't test well when food restricted.

There may be some potential benefit to acute restriction done in the recently popularised daily Intermittent Fasting protocols, but that is speculatory for now.

Undulations in food intake are always going to happen across the circadian day, and if there is any restricting that is likely helpful, it involves circadian-appropriate timing of caloric intake.

ie: I fully agree with the mechanisms that Bill Lagakos talks about here -- “Afternoon diabetes” and nutrient partitioning

Though I will be much more lax when it comes to interpretation; as stated above, body composition plays a huge role in this. As an example, it may be the case that naturally reduced skeletal tissue insulin sensitivity at night is "enough sensitivity" for a lean person, and "horrible sensitivity" for an obese person. The lean person may easily assimilate 100g of night time carbs no problem, while the obese person may struggle to actively store certain components.

....
 

Jsaute21

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Sep 3, 2016
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I personally am my leanest when i drink 3-4 cokes a day. The more carbs the better for me. I was a skeptic to the high sugar diet at first but after getting my metabolism up to speed, i am astonished by how effortlessly lean i am. I am also pro good starch, as i have big muscles and need to feed them glucose. Carbs that i regularly eat are:
OJ (30-40 oz)
Mexican coke or sugar sweetened pepsi (2-3 a day)
Sourdough bread with no fillers
Potatoes (all kinds)
niximized corn tortillas
Sorghum (once a week. real pain in the **** to cook.)
probably eat out once or twice a week, where i usually order a burger with shitty bread and eat vitamin e with it in case theres PUFA.
1% or 2% milk (3 cups)
10 TSP of sugar in my coffee
 

Wagner83

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Oct 15, 2016
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I personally am my leanest when i drink 3-4 cokes a day. The more carbs the better for me. I was a skeptic to the high sugar diet at first but after getting my metabolism up to speed, i am astonished by how effortlessly lean i am. I am also pro good starch, as i have big muscles and need to feed them glucose. Carbs that i regularly eat are:
OJ (30-40 oz)
Mexican coke or sugar sweetened pepsi (2-3 a day)
Sourdough bread with no fillers
Potatoes (all kinds)
niximized corn tortillas
Sorghum (once a week. real pain in the **** to cook.)
probably eat out once or twice a week, where i usually order a burger with shitty bread and eat vitamin e with it in case theres PUFA.
1% or 2% milk (3 cups)
10 TSP of sugar in my coffee
No more rice? Why did you ditch it?
 

jitsmonkey

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Jul 8, 2015
Messages
729
I personally am my leanest when i drink 3-4 cokes a day. The more carbs the better for me. I was a skeptic to the high sugar diet at first but after getting my metabolism up to speed, i am astonished by how effortlessly lean i am. I am also pro good starch, as i have big muscles and need to feed them glucose. Carbs that i regularly eat are:
OJ (30-40 oz)
Mexican coke or sugar sweetened pepsi (2-3 a day)
Sourdough bread with no fillers
Potatoes (all kinds)
niximized corn tortillas
Sorghum (once a week. real pain in the **** to cook.)
probably eat out once or twice a week, where i usually order a burger with shitty bread and eat vitamin e with it in case theres PUFA.
1% or 2% milk (3 cups)
10 TSP of sugar in my coffee


@Jsaute21 Wilford Brimley's gonna hear about this and he's gonna get Da Beetus for sure.
nice work. ;-)
 

superhuman

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May 31, 2013
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I personally am my leanest when i drink 3-4 cokes a day. The more carbs the better for me. I was a skeptic to the high sugar diet at first but after getting my metabolism up to speed, i am astonished by how effortlessly lean i am. I am also pro good starch, as i have big muscles and need to feed them glucose. Carbs that i regularly eat are:
OJ (30-40 oz)
Mexican coke or sugar sweetened pepsi (2-3 a day)
Sourdough bread with no fillers
Potatoes (all kinds)
niximized corn tortillas
Sorghum (once a week. real pain in the **** to cook.)
probably eat out once or twice a week, where i usually order a burger with shitty bread and eat vitamin e with it in case theres PUFA.
1% or 2% milk (3 cups)
10 TSP of sugar in my coffee

How many calories are you eating a day? whats your weight/height bodyfat?
 

nbznj

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Oct 4, 2017
Messages
287
on the topic of chronic caloric restriction - I've gained a lot of weight (lean muscle) lifting and NOT eating crazy amounts of food like fellow lifters always recommended. I took my body to the next level using low doses of oral steroids and TRT AND STILL not eating like a maniac. I had people telling me prior to the "TRT+" that I was crazy, going nowhere... well fast forward 18 months and I've added 30 pounds and leaner than ever. Probably unhealthily so - 6'3" 220lbs last DXA scan 9.2% bodyfat.

I'm using this formula: lean body mass *20. That's the "standard" muscle gain TDEE, approximately. I eat at a 10% deficit (feels great) up to 20% deficit (starts being hard to lift at this deficit but healthier). Basically anywhere between 3200 to 3600 kcals will do for me. And it's been 5 years with hair falling only when I start consistently eating too much and too many starches/fats. It's easy to stay very true to a Peat diet below 3500 kcals a day. Then it gets tricky. Skin looks glorious, sleep is great, 29yo looking like I'm 22 when I shave.
 

Jsaute21

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Sep 3, 2016
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How many calories are you eating a day? whats your weight/height bodyfat?
I don't pay any attention to calorie intake tbh. I eat probably 300-350 g of carbs, 50-70 g of fats and 150-170 g of protein. I should eat more just expensive and annoying at times.

Meals are typically:
Wake up with coffee, cream & sugar.
Breakfast: 20-32 oz of OJ with Sourdough, reduced fat cheese & 2 eggs.
Lunch: steak with corn tortillas and cheese. Wash it down with 1-2 cokes.
Afternoon snack: 1-2 cups of milk with some good quality chocolate.
Dinner: Similar to lunch. Shrimp once/twice a week. I try and add potatoes in as much as i can. Brutal to prepare time wise, but i love the taste of both regular and sweet. I try to eat mushrooms and spinach 1-3x a week as well.

If im hungry before bed i will have some haagan daaz with more milk, dark chocolate with more milk, or a good ingredient cookie with milk.

Im 6'1" 195 and probably 8-9% BF.
 

raypeatclips

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Jul 8, 2016
Messages
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I don't pay any attention to calorie intake tbh. I eat probably 300-350 g of carbs, 50-70 g of fats and 150-170 g of protein. I should eat more just expensive and annoying at times.

Meals are typically:
Wake up with coffee, cream & sugar.
Breakfast: 20-32 oz of OJ with Sourdough, reduced fat cheese & 2 eggs.
Lunch: steak with corn tortillas and cheese. Wash it down with 1-2 cokes.
Afternoon snack: 1-2 cups of milk with some good quality chocolate.
Dinner: Similar to lunch. Shrimp once/twice a week. I try and add potatoes in as much as i can. Brutal to prepare time wise, but i love the taste of both regular and sweet. I try to eat mushrooms and spinach 1-3x a week as well.

If im hungry before bed i will have some haagan daaz with more milk, dark chocolate with more milk, or a good ingredient cookie with milk.

Im 6'1" 195 and probably 8-9% BF.

Can I say your diet looks great, before someone tries to pick holes in it. Delicious and not orthorexic at all.
 

Jsaute21

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Sep 3, 2016
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Can I say your diet looks great, before someone tries to pick holes in it. Delicious and not orthorexic at all.
Thanks man. Good observation. I feel the same. I am not forcing myself to eat those foods. I enjoy all of them. Very important component due to dopamine release of eating good food.
 

nbznj

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Oct 4, 2017
Messages
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I've been playing with the idea of a super efficient diet when it comes to time management - meaning making it all very effortless when doing groceries and in the kitchen. Nobody shouldn't take their time chewing and eating and enjoying sitting down in front of some nice smelling foods tho

Looks like this:
Meal 1 - breakfast: eggs, low fat cheese omelette = 5mins cooking
Meal 2 - bring a liter of reduced fat goat milk and a liter of freshly squeezed juice to work = 5sec to pack in a bag
Meal 3 - meal prep lunch, usually starch like buckwheat or sweet potatoes and some no fat,no weird ingredient sauce +veggies = maybe 1.5 hour of meal prepping on a Sunday
Meal 4 - fruits and dark chocolate for your daily moderate workout, or any type of exercising after work = 5sec to pack in a bag
Meal 5 - big salad with goat/sheep cheese and liver = 2mins to set up

This way means hitting up to 3500kcals easily, consistently, and no alien foods craving. About $80 for weekdays which is quite pricey but I think it's very reasonable considering the health gains and the money saved not eating out.
 
L

lollipop

Guest
I've been playing with the idea of a super efficient diet when it comes to time management - meaning making it all very effortless when doing groceries and in the kitchen. Nobody shouldn't take their time chewing and eating and enjoying sitting down in front of some nice smelling foods tho

Looks like this:
Meal 1 - breakfast: eggs, low fat cheese omelette = 5mins cooking
Meal 2 - bring a liter of reduced fat goat milk and a liter of freshly squeezed juice to work = 5sec to pack in a bag
Meal 3 - meal prep lunch, usually starch like buckwheat or sweet potatoes and some no fat,no weird ingredient sauce +veggies = maybe 1.5 hour of meal prepping on a Sunday
Meal 4 - fruits and dark chocolate for your daily moderate workout, or any type of exercising after work = 5sec to pack in a bag
Meal 5 - big salad with goat/sheep cheese and liver = 2mins to set up

This way means hitting up to 3500kcals easily, consistently, and no alien foods craving. About $80 for weekdays which is quite pricey but I think it's very reasonable considering the health gains and the money saved not eating out.
I also save tons of money not eating out anymore. My husband and I have super high quality food. With a bit of planning and organizing, I have seriously reduced cost without sacrificing quality. The crazy thing is when we end up eating out because of family or social reasons, we feel super disappointed and wish we could have had my cooking - lol...
 

Dhair

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Jul 29, 2015
Messages
880
I also save tons of money not eating out anymore. My husband and I have super high quality food. With a bit of planning and organizing, I have seriously reduced cost without sacrificing quality. The crazy thing is when we end up eating out because of family or social reasons, we feel super disappointed and wish we could have had my cooking - lol...
I keep trying to explain this to some of my family members. Whenever I come in town to stay with them, I notice that they keep very low-quality food in their house, but they eat out frequently.
I think some people are just totally oblivious to how radically they could be transformed with slightly higher quality food.
 

nbznj

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Oct 4, 2017
Messages
287
I also save tons of money not eating out anymore. My husband and I have super high quality food. With a bit of planning and organizing, I have seriously reduced cost without sacrificing quality. The crazy thing is when we end up eating out because of family or social reasons, we feel super disappointed and wish we could have had my cooking - lol...

plus how is it cheaper overall? Unless eating out = dollar slice pizza... Any restaurant will be at least $20 a meal. Even fast food is usually close to $8-10. That's more than any one of my meals, and I have 6 a day.
 
L

lollipop

Guest
plus how is it cheaper overall? Unless eating out = dollar slice pizza... Any restaurant will be at least $20 a meal. Even fast food is usually close to $8-10. That's more than any one of my meals, and I have 6 a day.
Right?!?!?! :):
 

stargazer1111

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Feb 16, 2017
Messages
425
I know this is old, but I should share my anecdotal experience. The first time I did a Peat-inspired diet last year, I gained tons of weight. Actually, I gained about 40 pounds. I took a break for a while after my overdose on vitamin A and the weight came off over the course of several months. However, I don't feel right without a certain amount of sugar. Starch doesn't cut it. My brain does not function correctly without at least a moderate amount of sugar in my diet. So, I have partially come back to Peating by eating a moderate amount of sugar along with a moderate amount of Paul Jaminet's "safe starches."

I am allergic to most juices so I drink mostly caffeine-free soda. My fructose intake is somewhere between 50 and 100 grams per day. There is a fair amount of evidence in the literature supporting an upper limit of 100-130 grams of fructose per day rather than the usual 25 I see thrown around by the Lustigs of the world.

The first time I ate this way, I was eating way too much fat. Whole milk, full-fat ice cream and the like. This time, I get some fat but not nearly as much and am consuming no dairy at all. This time, I haven't gained a single pound and I look leaner than I have in a while. Of course, I work in a biochemical lab (whereas last year, I was a student sitting in class all day) and walk a lot every day so my activity level is much higher.

My tentative conclusion is that, in an isocaloric context with comparable activity levels, moderate intakes of fructose (50-100 grams per day) are unlikely to be harmful.
 

superhuman

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Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
1,124
I know this is old, but I should share my anecdotal experience. The first time I did a Peat-inspired diet last year, I gained tons of weight. Actually, I gained about 40 pounds. I took a break for a while after my overdose on vitamin A and the weight came off over the course of several months. However, I don't feel right without a certain amount of sugar. Starch doesn't cut it. My brain does not function correctly without at least a moderate amount of sugar in my diet. So, I have partially come back to Peating by eating a moderate amount of sugar along with a moderate amount of Paul Jaminet's "safe starches."

I am allergic to most juices so I drink mostly caffeine-free soda. My fructose intake is somewhere between 50 and 100 grams per day. There is a fair amount of evidence in the literature supporting an upper limit of 100-130 grams of fructose per day rather than the usual 25 I see thrown around by the Lustigs of the world.

The first time I ate this way, I was eating way too much fat. Whole milk, full-fat ice cream and the like. This time, I get some fat but not nearly as much and am consuming no dairy at all. This time, I haven't gained a single pound and I look leaner than I have in a while. Of course, I work in a biochemical lab (whereas last year, I was a student sitting in class all day) and walk a lot every day so my activity level is much higher.

My tentative conclusion is that, in an isocaloric context with comparable activity levels, moderate intakes of fructose (50-100 grams per day) are unlikely to be harmful.

you have to control your calories, that is the only way you can know whats working or not
 

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