Constant Insatiable Hunger, Extreme Stress, And Brain Fog All For 7 Years Now

[tara]

I don't have the numbers, but we did do the TSH like 4 times throughout the years, and was always within the normal range. T3/T4 was also normal. My doc never gave me the actual tests though.

MAybe you can ask for the numbers?
Some doctors go by a TSH range up to about 4.5.
Peat says he's seldom seeln a really healthy person with TSH above 2, and less than 1 is more likely.
Some endocrinologists think 2.5 is more suitable as a standard range, and some are willing to look at a range of signs and symptoms (older style), rather than just rely on TSH.
There are articles on Peat's website about thyroid too.

I know for a fact this is not diet. My diet is LOADED with red meat, eggs, fish, bread/potatoes/rice, and other fruits/vegetables. My diet is to good for this extreme amount of symptoms to be happening.

Not sure why you think this is fact. Not everyone thrives on all of those foods. Balance can also be a factor. Have you run a typical day through cronometer or similar?

Diet is important, but genetics, biochemistry, enzymes, hormones, bacteria, and molecules are the main reason for disease, I believe. Most people can eat a terrible diet but still feel great if they're metabolically healthy, whereas those with hormonal problems or infections can eat the best diet in the world and still suffer anyway.

If you were completely healthy, you wouldn't be having this conversation. SOme people have robust metabolisms and good mineral reserves etc, and can withstand more stress. Others of us seem to need to be a bit more careful. I'm not saying there can't be other factors, but diet is what you use to fuel and maintain yourself, so I think it's irrelevant.

 

[redsun]

So, I basically need tons of copper then? With niacin and nutrients to raise nonadrenaline? I did take tyrosine for catecholamines, but it did not do anything. Thoughts? Maybe I need the actual nutrient copper, and not just any ol' molecule even if it does the same thing?

Yes, I took tons of zinc for years and had the exact same symptoms. That damn supplement! Glad to see someone who can relate!

Did you end up fixing the hunger? With copper?

Well you likely need to get more copper in the system so your sympathetic nervous system can work better assuming that is the problem. If its been awhile since taking zinc and you have been eating copper foods and taking copper you may need it you may not its hard to tell without actual tests. But its likely copper and iron are messed up because of the zinc and liver greatly supports the SNS as a whole not just through copper but through B vitamins and other minerals. Copper alone will likely not work, support the SNS the right way with one of the most powerful foods on the planet.

Liver is very stimulating and this is exactly what you would want to deal with the apathy and other mental issues zinc causes because excess zinc depresses the CNS. Best to eat liver early in the day and eat it daily in smaller quantities. So like trying to get 4mg or so copper from liver daily and avoid copper/iron absorption inhibitors with the meal with liver. Maintain that high copper intake for a few weeks should build up your stores and see how you feel from that.

You generally don't need much copper daily (excessive will lower histamine which I am not a fan of) but when you deplete copper and iron stores because of something like zinc you need to work to build those stores back up because without those two you will feel dead physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Yes, taking tyrosine and not getting any benefit if only momentarily is likely showcasing you have deficiencies reducing tyrosine conversion to l dopa, dopamine, noradrenaline. So could be minerals like iron, copper, or low B3, B6, folate, vitamin C...

In my case my excessive hunger went away with time by stopping zinc. Didnt need to take copper really for that. Depends on the person.

 

[redsun]

Don't they sell blood sausage in the US?

Yeh that would work of course if consuming blood isnt a moral problem for the individual.

 

[Hans]

Thanks man for the help. I have niacin in my closet, so i'll give it a try on the weekend. In case a negative reaction happens, It won't interfere with my work/school.

It's best to use niacinamide (not niacin) through the day because niacin causes a fatty acid rebound and can contribute to insulin resistance. That's why I mentioned it would be fine to use niacin before bed because then the fatty acid rebound wouldn't interfere with insulin/glucose oxidation while you sleep.

 

[Dan77]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. I appreciate it from every single one of you.

I'm going to try the things recommended here, and may give an update in a few weeks or so if anything has happened.

Cheers everyone!
-Dan

 

[OldMan]

21 year old male.

At the age of 14, I was a normal guy. The very next day my life changed. I had CONSTANT hunger and had to eat every single hour or else I was in for massive brain fog and trembling stress/depersonalization with blurry vision.
I could eat 2 steaks and a burger, then the very next meal be absolutely starving.
I could eat 5000 calories of food, and still feel hungry.
This is not diet-related because I have tried every diet there is with no help. something is wrong in my body. Some hormone,enzyme, chemical, something is not right....

Since then, nothing has changed. I've felt like this for years now and I'm sick and tired. Constantly feeling "wired but tired".

Doctor and I did a lot of testing. Everything normal.. Glucose normal, normal A1C, normal thyroid/iron/B12, EVERYTHING looks normal, yet i'm suffering.
The only thing not normal is my cortisol and c-peptide, both being high.

Any supplement that causes stimulation makes it all worse. Iodine, B vitamins, vitamin c, caffeine/coffee, creatine, tyrosine, and literally any supplement that's meant to "increase energy" makes it worse.

Could it be low GABA/High catecholamines? Nervous system related? Dopamine/serotonin? Hormones?

Dan.... Your high cortisol is a huge red flag....... High cortisol converts all the steaks and burgers your eating into sugar and fat. This conversion causes a protein deficiency. So #1 you are to a degree protein deficient due to high cortisol.

 

[Tristan Loscha]

21 year old male.

At the age of 14, I was a normal guy. The very next day my life changed. I had CONSTANT hunger and had to eat every single hour or else I was in for massive brain fog and trembling stress/depersonalization with blurry vision.
I could eat 2 steaks and a burger, then the very next meal be absolutely starving.
I could eat 5000 calories of food, and still feel hungry.
This is not diet-related because I have tried every diet there is with no help. something is wrong in my body. Some hormone,enzyme, chemical, something is not right....

Since then, nothing has changed. I've felt like this for years now and I'm sick and tired. Constantly feeling "wired but tired".

Doctor and I did a lot of testing. Everything normal.. Glucose normal, normal A1C, normal thyroid/iron/B12, EVERYTHING looks normal, yet i'm suffering.
The only thing not normal is my cortisol and c-peptide, both being high.

Any supplement that causes stimulation makes it all worse. Iodine, B vitamins, vitamin c, caffeine/coffee, creatine, tyrosine, and literally any supplement that's meant to "increase energy" makes it worse.

Could it be low GABA/High catecholamines? Nervous system related? Dopamine/serotonin? Hormones?

You could be growing,up to the Age of 30?Whats your height,weight,estimated Bodyfat,strength?
What would your peers and Parents say about your physique and health?

 

[redsun]

@Dan77 Things going well? Any improvements?

 

[Dan77]

@Dan77 Things going well? Any improvements?

No improvement at all. Still suffering daily.
The whole niacin, aspirin, and orange juice thing never worked. Tyrosine did not work.. Lowering serotonin never worked. Coffee did not work. To much milk gives me brain fog, perhaps via excessive calcium?
Beef liver and/or copper supplements made me feel slightly less stressed, as in say, a 10% reduction, but i'm still feeling horrible.

I actually feel normal if I sleep only 2 hours. The brain fog goes away, hunger goes away, etc. Then I crash from exhaustion and go back to suffering my old symptoms when waking up. I wonder why the hell a lack of sleep seems to improve my symptoms temporarily? It makes no sense,

As fascinating as many Ray Peat's ideas are, they don't apply to me. The only benefit of his I've gotten is increasing my saturated fat, it raises my libido sky high and I feel a little stronger physically. That's about it, though.

I've saved up some money for testing, and time will tell what happens.

Do you have any recommendations, redsun?

 

[redsun]

No improvement at all. Still suffering daily.
The whole niacin, aspirin, and orange juice thing never worked. Tyrosine did not work.. Lowering serotonin never worked. Coffee did not work. To much milk gives me brain fog, perhaps via excessive calcium?

As fascinating as many Ray Peat's ideas are, they don't apply to me. The only benefit of his I've gotten is increasing my saturated fat, it raises my libido sky high and I feel a little stronger physically. That's about it, though.

I've saved up some money for testing, and time will tell what happens.

Do you have any recommendations, redsun?

What about the increasing liver intake recommendation to deal with hunger? Did it help or worsen? If you didnt do it thats fine too its important to we know. I believe as Hans suggested originally that it could be high copper (in other words, low histamine). My original thoughts also when I first read your thread was low histamine which is usually a big player in excessive hunger. But not the fact that you are low copper but the fact that you took B vitamins and zinc.

B vitamins + zinc would provide a lot of the cofactors needed to turn the methylation cycle. The methionine synthase enzyme needs zinc as a cofactor and the B vitamins all play a part in making the methylation cycle work.

All of them could of actually been the issue but mainly B1, B2, B6, B12, folate are heavily involved. Overload these B vitamins with zinc basically put you into a histapenic (overmethylated) state. Increased methylation basically excessively deactivating brain histamine, which is a big part in controlling appetite and you are screwed big time.

If you can provide further detail on the quantity and type (were they methylated aka activated or not activated) of B vitamins you were given and for approximately how long you were taking them this would easily verify this. You dont even need much Bs, chronically is enough especially in combination with zinc which is pro-methylation as I already explained.

We can then work from there.

 

[Dan77]

What about the increasing liver intake recommendation to deal with hunger? Did it help or worsen? If you didnt do it thats fine too its important to we know. I believe as Hans suggested originally that it could be high copper (in other words, low histamine). My original thoughts also when I first read your thread was low histamine which is usually a big player in excessive hunger. But not the fact that you are low copper but the fact that you took B vitamins and zinc.

B vitamins + zinc would provide a lot of the cofactors needed to turn the methylation cycle. The methionine synthase enzyme needs zinc as a cofactor and the B vitamins all play a part in making the methylation cycle work.

All of them could of actually been the issue but mainly B1, B2, B6, B12, folate are heavily involved. Overload these B vitamins with zinc basically put you into a histapenic (overmethylated) state. Increased methylation basically excessively deactivating brain histamine, which is a big part in controlling appetite and you are screwed big time.

If you can provide further detail on the quantity and type (were they methylated aka activated or not activated) of B vitamins you were given and for approximately how long you were taking them this would easily verify this. You dont even need much Bs, chronically is enough especially in combination with zinc which is pro-methylation as I already explained.

We can then work from there.

Thanks for the reply, Redsun.

I did consume beef liver, and copper supplements(2 mg) here and there. Not much difference. There was a slight stress reduction, as in perhaps 10-15% less. Made me calmer in an excessively tired type of way, but brain fog, headaches, and hunger still there full force though.

Overmethylation seems interestingly possible, considering that the supplement had some methylated B-Vitamins.
Methyl folate, methyl b12, etc. B6 and B2 were not methylated

Off the top of my head, the B-complex was:
Thiamin 20 mg
Riboflavin 5 mg
B3 20 mg
B5 10 mg
B6 10 mg
Biotin 30 mcg
Methy-folate 400 mcg
methyl-B12 50 mcg
Zinc- Anywhere from 20-50 mg daily.
Also had:
Selenium- 50 mcg
Vit a- 1000 IU
Vit e- 20 mg
Vit c- 100 mg

I edited my last reply. Explained how a lack of sleep seems to reverse many of these symptoms, until I crash afterwards and go back to normal(brain fog/headaches/hunger).
This is absolutely fascinating. A lack of sleep, even to the point of sleep deprivation, somehow alleviates the brain fog/blurry vision/headaches and hunger.

No amount of glucose or carbs improves this. Only makes it more manageable, as in a small headache instead of a big one.

The only thing that made me feel 70% normal was eating a BIG meal every 1 hour. I mean big. As in, a large chicken sandwich with cheese, bread, lettuce, etc.
It absolutely did not matter what I ate, whether it was eggs, beans, rice, or meat, as long as something loaded my stomach up to the point of not being able to move, the headaches/brain fog/depersonalized feeling would temporarily go...For an hour. Until coming back again.

I stopped doing that many years ago because I was gaining weight from eating 10-12 massive meals a day(obviously), and this was not an actual cure, just delaying the inevitable. so now my regime for the last years has been to consume 4-5 meals and endure the suffering until a better day comes.

Another thing... As a kid, I was pretty smart. and I still am. I got good grades and was damn good at math(best in the class at some points). However, I also had brain fog as a child too. It would come and go randomly. Some days I was super smart and witty, other days with brain fog and blurry vision, but as a kid I never knew what was happening and just thought "I'm tired today".

Cholinergic urticaria is another diagnosis I have. Doctors have given me antihistamines for it, but antihistamines literally do nothing for me.
Only thing that helps my CU is 1) High saturated fat and cholesterol(amazing for my nervous system) 2) When I'm calm and not in the super brain fog/stressed state.. 3) Meditation.
Doctors say "it's an allergy", but it's not. I've done all sorts of allergy tests and I'm good to go. Nothing. They say that because the pain is caused by hives, but another theory is that the mast cells are leaking histamine thus causing the pain. Not an allergy, just the dysfunction of mast cells. I tried quercetion for that, but it made me break out even more!

Polyphenols, antioxidants, NAC, excessive fruit and vegetables, turmeric + ginger, green tea, iodine, vit C and vit E, all amplify and worsen the stress/hunger/headaches 10 fold.
Green smoothies make it hell.
Any nutrient that's meant to "speed you up" makes it worse. Saturated fat and copper/magnesium help me, but only a bit. I'm always suffering, those 3 make it a bit more manageable though. Excessive intake of copper and magnesium do not help. I've tried. Low dosages here and there alleviate some stress...


I apologize if I wrote to much, i'm trying to relay as much as information I can for you so I don't waste your time with excessive back/forth questions that can be answered in the get go.

Thanks for reading man.

 

[redsun]

Thanks for the reply, Redsun.

I did consume beef liver, and copper supplements(2 mg) here and there. Not much difference. There was a slight stress reduction, as in perhaps 10-15% less. Made me calmer in an excessively tired type of way, but brain fog, headaches, and hunger still there full force though.

Overmethylation seems interestingly possible, considering that the supplement had some methylated B-Vitamins.
Methyl folate, methyl b12, etc. B6 and B2 were not methylated

Off the top of my head, the B-complex was:
Thiamin 20 mg
Riboflavin 5 mg
B3 20 mg
B5 10 mg
B6 10 mg
Biotin 30 mcg
Methy-folate 400 mcg
methyl-B12 50 mcg
Zinc- Anywhere from 20-50 mg daily.
Also had:
Selenium- 50 mcg
Vit a- 1000 IU
Vit e- 20 mg
Vit c- 100 mg

I edited my last reply. Explained how a lack of sleep seems to reverse many of these symptoms, until I crash afterwards and go back to normal(brain fog/headaches/hunger).
This is absolutely fascinating. A lack of sleep, even to the point of sleep deprivation, somehow alleviates the brain fog/blurry vision/headaches and hunger.

No amount of glucose or carbs improves this. Only makes it more manageable, as in a small headache instead of a big one.

The only thing that made me feel 70% normal was eating a BIG meal every 1 hour. I mean big. As in, a large chicken sandwich with cheese, bread, lettuce, etc.
It absolutely did not matter what I ate, whether it was eggs, beans, rice, or meat, as long as something loaded my stomach up to the point of not being able to move, the headaches/brain fog/depersonalized feeling would temporarily go...For an hour. Until coming back again.

I stopped doing that many years ago because I was gaining weight from eating 10-12 massive meals a day(obviously), and this was not an actual cure, just delaying the inevitable. so now my regime for the last years has been to consume 4-5 meals and endure the suffering until a better day comes.

Another thing... As a kid, I was pretty smart. and I still am. I got good grades and was damn good at math(best in the class at some points). However, I also had brain fog as a child too. It would come and go randomly. Some days I was super smart and witty, other days with brain fog and blurry vision, but as a kid I never knew what was happening and just thought "I'm tired today".

Cholinergic urticaria is another diagnosis I have. Doctors have given me antihistamines for it, but antihistamines literally do nothing for me.
Only thing that helps my CU is 1) High saturated fat and cholesterol(amazing for my nervous system) 2) When I'm calm and not in the super brain fog/stressed state.. 3) Meditation.
Doctors say "it's an allergy", but it's not. I've done all sorts of allergy tests and I'm good to go. Nothing. They say that because the pain is caused by hives, but another theory is that the mast cells are leaking histamine thus causing the pain. Not an allergy, just the dysfunction of mast cells. I tried quercetion for that, but it made me break out even more!

Polyphenols, antioxidants, NAC, excessive fruit and vegetables, turmeric + ginger, green tea, iodine, vit C and vit E, all amplify and worsen the stress/hunger/headaches 10 fold.
Green smoothies make it hell.
Any nutrient that's meant to "speed you up" makes it worse. Saturated fat and copper/magnesium help me, but only a bit. I'm always suffering, those 3 make it a bit more manageable though. Excessive intake of copper and magnesium do not help. I've tried. Low dosages here and there alleviate some stress...


I apologize if I wrote to much, i'm trying to relay as much as information I can for you so I don't waste your time with excessive back/forth questions that can be answered in the get go.

Thanks for reading man.

I think a big component of hunger is a lack of internal brain stimulation. This is why things like cocaine, and all these ADHD meds common nowadays tend to kill hunger in a lot of people. If a high histamine individual (histadelic) takes a DNRI it would actually increase hunger because of the noradrenaline toning down histamine, so its not always 100% this way. Usually though they boost brain histamine as well but also increase the SNS as a whole as well increasing energy and reducing hunger considerably.

Histamine is heavily involved in hunger as well and is a stimulating neurotransmitter that can actually affect the others and excite the brain moreso overall. Its no coincidence that zinc also reliably reduces brain stimulation by blocking NMDA (glutamate receptors), and these NMDA receptors are involved in activating and synergizing with other excitatory neurotransmitters such as histamine, dopamine, noradrenaline, etc. Your brain fog also points also to possible understimulation as well.

If I were to take a lot of zinc right now I would also get intense hunger again like I used to from it. Also B vitamins (especially B1) can increase hunger, obviously by inactivating histamine but B1 is generally good at increasing hunger regardless.

Nothing to apologize for the more information you give the better. Do you have seasonal allergies and how often if at all do you get sick (cold, flu, fevers, that kind of thing)? You have taken anti-histamines for the CU but how did they affect you? Did you feel better or worse mentally?

Also the vitamins dont even need to be methylated to cause issue, but its worse if methylated. How long did you take the vitamins approximately?

As for the sleep deprivation thing, I also get it sometimes. Hard to really pinpoint why its works the way it does but likely to do with the fact that sleep deprivation triggers a stress response lighting up the nervous system and stress systems temporarily and stimulating the brain helping everything work again at least temporarily.

 

[Dan77]

I think a big component of hunger is a lack of internal brain stimulation. This is why things like cocaine, and all these ADHD meds common nowadays tend to kill hunger in a lot of people. If a high histamine individual (histadelic) takes a DNRI it would actually increase hunger because of the noradrenaline toning down histamine, so its not always 100% this way. Usually though they boost brain histamine as well but also increase the SNS as a whole as well increasing energy and reducing hunger considerably.

Histamine is heavily involved in hunger as well and is a stimulating neurotransmitter that can actually affect the others and excite the brain moreso overall. Its no coincidence that zinc also reliably reduces brain stimulation by blocking NMDA (glutamate receptors), and these NMDA receptors are involved in activating and synergizing with other excitatory neurotransmitters such as histamine, dopamine, noradrenaline, etc. Your brain fog also points also to possible understimulation as well.

If I were to take a lot of zinc right now I would also get intense hunger again like I used to from it. Also B vitamins (especially B1) can increase hunger, obviously by inactivating histamine but B1 is generally good at increasing hunger regardless.

Nothing to apologize for the more information you give the better. Do you have seasonal allergies and how often if at all do you get sick (cold, flu, fevers, that kind of thing)? You have taken anti-histamines for the CU but how did they affect you? Did you feel better or worse mentally?

Also the vitamins dont even need to be methylated to cause issue, but its worse if methylated. How long did you take the vitamins approximately?

As for the sleep deprivation thing, I also get it sometimes. Hard to really pinpoint why its works the way it does but likely to do with the fact that sleep deprivation triggers a stress response lighting up the nervous system and stress systems temporarily and stimulating the brain helping everything work again at least temporarily.

Let's say you were right about overmethylation. What would fix that? How would I lower methylation and raise Histamine?

No seasonal allergies, and no allergies in general. I haven't gotten cold or flu for many many years now.
Anti-histamines don't improve CU at all. I actually felt it made it slightly worse, but that may just be placebo or being overly critical. In general, antihistamines did not help or hurt much.

Vitamins were taken for 2-3 years. Terrible. I know. Although the vitamins may have been trigger, I also believe there's a deeper root cause that they simply revealed further.

EDIT: Google search shows overmethylation AND undermethylation treatments consist of zinc. That seems like a problem. Both focus on reducing or increasing copper, but I honestly think my copper is fine, especially after beef liver +copper supplements.

What else would lower methylation because websites yield mixes results.

 

[redsun]

Let's say you were right about overmethylation. What would fix that? How would I lower methylation and raise Histamine?

No seasonal allergies, and no allergies in general. I haven't gotten cold or flu for many many years now.
Anti-histamines don't improve CU at all. I actually felt it made it slightly worse, but that may just be placebo or being overly critical. In general, antihistamines did not help or hurt much.

Vitamins were taken for 2-3 years. Terrible. I know. Although the vitamins may have been trigger, I also believe there's a deeper root cause that they simply revealed further.

2-3 years... Oh boy that is rough. No seasonal allergies and not getting a cold or flu in years. Very good indications of low histamine. 2-3 years of providing high amount of cofactors constantly recycling and making methionine like mad because of the sped up methylation.

Okay well I think we really have the answer here. At least, a very big piece of the puzzle. So now we are basically 100% certain you are a very low histamine individual.

Idea is we want to promote histamine but also promote PGE1, as both seem to be related. In other words, if PGE1 rises, histamine also rises and vice versa.

This is the regime we are looking at:

niacinamide: 1g-3g a day. This slows down methylation considerably.

folic acid (not methylfolate, we want folic acid): 2mg a day

vitamin C: 1-2g a day

Usually also what is also recommended for low histamine/low PGE1 types is zinc and B6 but I am hesistant to give zinc because of your past usage. So you are just going to get normal amounts from the diet. From what I have read, you seem to have little issue eating red meat. So steaks should be able to provide the zinc easily and also provide B6.

So diet wise, I would heavily emphasize red meat, specifically steaks over ground beef as much as possible as steaks have much higher histidine. You want to consume histidine as much as possible but in general you want to consume a lot of amino acids specifically from meat as these amino acid ratios compared to dairy and eggs are much more stimulating to the brain which is part of the idea of how we are going to help besides directly trying to raise histamine levels.

High protein diet is recommended for low histamine individuals so I am doing the same for you. High protein diet, preferably beef steaks, pork steak also work as they are also pretty high in histidine and lower in methionine. Chicken has a bad histidine:methionine ratio. Avoid dairy as the calcium may release histamine and lower it over time (used to treat histadelia, high histamine). Eggs are high in methionine, avoid.

Also make sure to have quality fish such as salmon a few times a week possibly at most to provide EFAs like omega 3s which have been shown to be beneficial in low PGE1 types. Salmon is also high in B6. Evening primrose oil is sometimes given which has gamma linoleic acid which can more easily be made into to PGE1 because it bypasses some conversions compared to plain linoleic acid you will get from most foods.

So in short, the niacinamide, vitamin C, folic acid as supplements. Getting zinc and B6 from the diet (usually given as supplements, but with lots of red meat in the diet you should be good here). You can try the lower end dosages first and build up, and see how you do. Doses should be divided evenly throughout the day. Avoid excess copper from foods, and in this case we want to lay off the liver as its high in B vitamins (worsen methylation) and copper (anti-histamine).

Keep in mind, the results may and likely will be slow but keep at it. The key I am mainly looking at is to raise brain histamine and brain stimulation to improve your brain fog. Generally this should also improve appetite control. Again, this will take time but keep at it. Its also possible that initially things may worsen before they improve.

Let me know if you have other questions.

I am aware of how they usually deal with it. Unfortunately research is mixed, advice is mixed, and the issue is not every piece of advice makes sense because histapenia and histadelia has not been researched that much.

 

[Dan77]

2-3 years... Oh boy that is rough. No seasonal allergies and not getting a cold or flu in years. Very good indications of low histamine. 2-3 years of providing high amount of cofactors constantly recycling and making methionine like mad because of the sped up methylation.

Okay well I think we really have the answer here. At least, a very big piece of the puzzle. So now we are basically 100% certain you are a very low histamine individual.

Idea is we want to promote histamine but also promote PGE1, as both seem to be related. In other words, if PGE1 rises, histamine also rises and vice versa.

This is the regime we are looking at:

niacinamide: 1g-3g a day. This slows down methylation considerably.

folic acid (not methylfolate, we want folic acid): 2mg a day

vitamin C: 1-2g a day

Usually also what is also recommended for low histamine/low PGE1 types is zinc and B6 but I am hesistant to give zinc because of your past usage. So you are just going to get normal amounts from the diet. From what I have read, you seem to have little issue eating red meat. So steaks should be able to provide the zinc easily and also provide B6.

So diet wise, I would heavily emphasize red meat, specifically steaks over ground beef as much as possible as steaks have much higher histidine. You want to consume histidine as much as possible but in general you want to consume a lot of amino acids specifically from meat as these amino acid ratios compared to dairy and eggs are much more stimulating to the brain which is part of the idea of how we are going to help besides directly trying to raise histamine levels.

High protein diet is recommended for low histamine individuals so I am doing the same for you. High protein diet, preferably beef steaks, pork steak also work as they are also pretty high in histidine and lower in methionine. Chicken has a bad histidine:methionine ratio. Avoid dairy as the calcium may release histamine and lower it over time (used to treat histadelia, high histamine). Eggs are high in methionine, avoid.

Also make sure to have quality fish such as salmon a few times a week possibly at most to provide EFAs like omega 3s which have been shown to be beneficial in low PGE1 types. Salmon is also high in B6. Evening primrose oil is sometimes given which has gamma linoleic acid which can more easily be made into to PGE1 because it bypasses some conversions compared to plain linoleic acid you will get from most foods.

So in short, the niacinamide, vitamin C, folic acid as supplements. Getting zinc and B6 from the diet (usually given as supplements, but with lots of red meat in the diet you should be good here). You can try the lower end dosages first and build up, and see how you do. Doses should be divided evenly throughout the day. Avoid excess copper from foods, and in this case we want to lay off the liver as its high in B vitamins (worsen methylation) and copper (anti-histamine).

Keep in mind, the results may and likely will be slow but keep at it. The key I am mainly looking at is to raise brain histamine and brain stimulation to improve your brain fog. Generally this should also improve appetite control. Again, this will take time but keep at it. Its also possible that initially things may worsen before they improve.

Let me know if you have other questions.

I am aware of how they usually deal with it. Unfortunately research is mixed, advice is mixed, and the issue is not every piece of advice makes sense because histapenia and histadelia has not been researched that much.

Vitamin C makes me feel worse, especially in higher doses. All antioxidants do, esp. vit c.
High protein diet, upwards of 150-200 G I have tried to no avail....

Niacin and Folic acid, those dosages seem quite high. Very high. Dangerously high and I'm in a situation where I can't get sick due to finishing school now in the final month.
While some people take those high dosages and justify the extreme as "i'm fine, so everyone else should be to", I know that 99% of people will get symptoms....Those dosages are way to high for the human body to handle, regardless of what some orthmolecular doctors say...

I respect your help and am not trying to be combative at all to genuine help which I appreciate, but I do have to say those dosages are enough to mess someone's life up. Excess Niacin has the potential to mop up to much of the methylation, but even methylation aside, cause insulin resistance and a host of other issues/imbalances that will take me years to reverse, and make my already terrible situation become borderline suicidal.

I can try Niacinamide in lower dosages, except for the fact that there is no low dosage Niacinamide. All come in 100 mg, 250 mg, or 500 mg, and the only low dosage of 25 mg is nicotonic acid..... Don't want the flush.

Trust me my friend....I've tried all sorts of ***t over the years. The amount of reading I've done on this, mostly to compensate for the lack of money, is higher than the average sick person. I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but know enough to understand some basics... Candida, parasites, hormonal imbalances, nootropics, and so many other subjects to read. But potentially thousands and thousands to actually buy and test. Money I just don't have, especially being in school.




Would a low dose work? if I got a regular supp and emptied 1/4 of the capsule?
Any blood tests to confirm, a histamine test, or would that not be indicative of actual brain histamine? Because gut histamine affects blood serum too?

A video of Chris Masterjohn recommends glycine for overmethylators rather than Niacin. He says the amount of Niacin it takes to prevent methyls is different for everyone and can backfire.
Maybe he's wrong, but it's hard to test that when all the supplements are extremely high dosages rather than physiologically normal ones.

I've used glycine before and felt much of my symptoms improve a lot for 3-4 hours, until it went back to ***t again. And repeatedly taking glycine raises the risk of excess neuron excitation which is really bad. Gelatin/Collagen has to much glutamate in ratio to other amino acids too....


Excuse my swearing, but this is ****88 up.
Just sitting here typing how the things you recommended don't work is ****88. I want things to work, it's just that they don't

I get you're trying to help and I hope you're not offended by my general disagreeing/ discouragement. I appreciate your help, i honestly do.

 

[Seekinghealth]

High protein diet is recommended for low histamine individuals so I am doing the same for you. High protein diet, preferably beef steaks, pork steak also work as they are also pretty high in histidine and lower in methionine. Chicken has a bad histidine:methionine ratio. Avoid dairy as the calcium may release histamine and lower it over time (used to treat histadelia, high histamine). Eggs are high in methionine, avoid.

Hello Redsun,

Do you mind sharing where you retrieve these Histidine:Methionine ratios from? Or which ones you are using specifically? Appreciated!

 

[Markus]

Have you done any genetic testing? It would be really interesting to run them through www.selfdecode.com.

 

[thomas00]

If you haven't done the emergency metabolic diet of OJ and milk and maybe a few other easily digestible things, I'd suggest trying it. I know it can be hard, especially if you have already done so much restrictive dieting, but it can really yield results. Endotoxin is capable of producing so many bad effects and in my experience antibiotics can only do so much. Nothing compares to completely starving bacteria as much as possible. There is a reason why Ray says sick people should avoid starch.

Hunger cravings and stress are symptoms of hypothyroidism.

You might consider experimenting with thyroid. If that's a bit daunting then the emergency metabolic diet on it's own could be good, even as a diagnostic of sorts. I don't know if you've ever seen those studies Ray has talked about where endotoxin can cause thyroiditis.

I went from being someone who could not tolerate coffee (anxiety inducing nightmare!) to it being something that made me feel great within a week of OJ+milk+meat+cheese and a tiny amount of t3.

 

[Sulcuscentralis]

Spleen is crazy high in iron, so if someone needs to replenish iron stores, spleen is probably the best source. A little bit of liver and a little bit of spleen would be a synergistic combo.

Duck liver has 30mg of iron per 100g.

 

[Hans]

Duck liver has 30mg of iron per 100g.

That's really good. And might be tastier than spleen as well.