Fatigue & Brain Fog

[jsid]

Hey guys:

I'm very new to Dr.Peat but I've really liked what I've read so far. So a little about me I'm a 22 year old male 5'8.5 115 pounds. I deal with constant fatigue no matter how long I sleep for which has been going on for about 4 years.

Usually after 8 hours of sleep I'm way too tired to get up. It takes me about 10 hours have enough energy to get out of bed. I've had a sleep apnea test done which came back negative. I also deal with chronic brain fog 24/7. Lack of concentration,memory (which is terrible), unable to retain information,very low sex drive, hazy vision and basically never feeling completely in the moment (usually stuck in my head) I also have a very hard time putting on weight. Over the last 4 months I've cut out dairy, wheat, beef, avocado, pineapple, grains and alcohol. All things I'm sensitive too according to a food allergy test other than the grains. I've felt about a 30-40% improvement in fatigue and brain fog but I'm still affected by It every day. My diet consists of fruit like apples, bananas, organs, vegetables, chicken and salmon. I eat 3 meals a day. I also consume 2-3 L of reverse osmosis water a day.

Now a couple times over the course of the 4 years on nights I've drank alcohol heavily I've awoken feeling perfectly fine.This doesn't happen all the time just a few times.All symptoms gone and just a general feeling of how life should be. This feeling last for a couple hours before all my symptoms slowly return then I end up feeling worse than usual.

I've had some blood test done which are posted below. Would anyone have any insight on what could be going on. Really want to get my life going. Thanks!

DHEA/S 19 (Elevated) Range 3-10/pg/ml
Progesterone 23(Normal) Range 5-95
Androstenedione > 1000(Elevated) Range 151-350
Estrone 207 (Elevated) Range 30-58
Testosterone 77(Normal) Range 60-135
Estradiol 3 (Normal) Range 1-3
DHT 106
FSH 62 Range <125
LH 19 Range 10-25
So obviously really high numbers. Also my testosterone shows normal but for a 22 year old male I feel like it should be alot higher.

I also got a TH1 TH2 cytoken test done as I've read it contributes to brain fog. Alot of my numbers came back high and low.

IL 2 - High
INF Gamma - High
IL 4 - High
IL 17 - Low
IL 10 - High

I've also been checked for Lyme and Arthritis which came back negative. My Thyroid, Iron,Potassium,Calcium, and B12 levels are fine. So ya that's basically were I'm at now any feedback or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[squanch]

My diet consists of fruit like apples, bananas, organs, vegetables, chicken and salmon. I eat 3 meals a day. I also consume 2-3 L of reverse osmosis water a day.

Unless you are eating an absolutely ridiculous amount of bananas there is no way you are getting even close to enough calories.

Where's the fat? add in some coconut oil.
Try goat milk/cheese (preferably raw) if you're sensitive to cow dairy.
Drop the chicken and salmon and eat some lean white fish and other seafood instead.
Some starches might help too. Potatoes, yams, masa harina, sourdough bread. See what works best for you.
Drop that fancy water and drink some fruit juice instead. 2-3 L of extra fluid is probably to much, try 1 L.
Also oysters and liver. Everyone should be eating oysters and liver

Forget those blood tests for now. Try getting up to 3000-4000 kcal a day first.


I would also be interest in when and how your problems started. Most of us seem to have very similar problems. Lots of early 20's males too.
Really starting to think that staying inside and staring into a computer screen all youth while probably masturbating way too much has something to do with it..

Oh yeah right, stop masturbating!
Find an ejaculation frequency that works best for you once your libido is back (1-2 times per month is a good place to start)

 

[you]

Food allergy tests aren't reliable.

Go on a Peat diet and report back with results.

 

[Amazoniac]

Hey guys:

I'm very new to Dr.Peat but I've really liked what I've read so far. So a little about me I'm a 22 year old male 5'8.5 115 pounds. I deal with constant fatigue no matter how long I sleep for which has been going on for about 4 years.

Usually after 8 hours of sleep I'm way too tired to get up. It takes me about 10 hours have enough energy to get out of bed. I've had a sleep apnea test done which came back negative. I also deal with chronic brain fog 24/7. Lack of concentration,memory (which is terrible), unable to retain information,very low sex drive, hazy vision and basically never feeling completely in the moment (usually stuck in my head) I also have a very hard time putting on weight. Over the last 4 months I've cut out dairy, wheat, beef, avocado, pineapple, grains and alcohol. All things I'm sensitive too according to a food allergy test other than the grains. I've felt about a 30-40% improvement in fatigue and brain fog but I'm still affected by It every day. My diet consists of fruit like apples, bananas, organs, vegetables, chicken and salmon. I eat 3 meals a day. I also consume 2-3 L of reverse osmosis water a day.

Now a couple times over the course of the 4 years on nights I've drank alcohol heavily I've awoken feeling perfectly fine.This doesn't happen all the time just a few times.All symptoms gone and just a general feeling of how life should be. This feeling last for a couple hours before all my symptoms slowly return then I end up feeling worse than usual.

I've had some blood test done which are posted below. Would anyone have any insight on what could be going on. Really want to get my life going. Thanks!

DHEA/S 19 (Elevated) Range 3-10/pg/ml
Progesterone 23(Normal) Range 5-95
Androstenedione > 1000(Elevated) Range 151-350
Estrone 207 (Elevated) Range 30-58
Testosterone 77(Normal) Range 60-135
Estradiol 3 (Normal) Range 1-3
DHT 106
FSH 62 Range <125
LH 19 Range 10-25
So obviously really high numbers. Also my testosterone shows normal but for a 22 year old male I feel like it should be alot higher.

I also got a TH1 TH2 cytoken test done as I've read it contributes to brain fog. Alot of my numbers came back high and low.

IL 2 - High
INF Gamma - High
IL 4 - High
IL 17 - Low
IL 10 - High

I've also been checked for Lyme and Arthritis which came back negative. My Thyroid, Iron,Potassium,Calcium, and B12 levels are fine. So ya that's basically were I'm at now any feedback or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Hi jsid!

Are you familiar with Matt Stone's (on 180degreehealth.com) approach on caloric deficit? You described mostly all of the signs of caloric restriction.
He also touches on the subject of overhydration, especially if you are restricting calories or have an inefficient metabolism.
It looks like you are getting more and more restricted over time trying to get better.

Regarding the alcohol, it could be simply that ingesting more calories is improving your metabolism a bit, and alcoholic beverages tend to work briefly for that purpose.
And alcohol, just like bitter herbs are a radical way to treat possible pathogens, most of them get poisoned by it, creating an undesired environment and you'll feel a rush after the consumption. Doing that at the night will just further this effect since it's when your immune system is most active.
Restricting calories is a major problem for metabolism and immune system. Your digestion gets inefficient, wasting a lot of food; this wasted food won't travel through the intestines the way it should by impaired motility; as a consequence you won't be getting enough nutrition creating a perfect environment for infections.

 

[answersfound]

My diet consists of fruit like apples, bananas, organs, vegetables, chicken and salmon. I eat 3 meals a day. I also consume 2-3 L of reverse osmosis water a day.

Unless you are eating an absolutely ridiculous amount of bananas there is no way you are getting even close to enough calories.

Where's the fat? add in some coconut oil.
Try goat milk/cheese (preferably raw) if you're sensitive to cow dairy.
Drop the chicken and salmon and eat some lean white fish and other seafood instead.
Some starches might help too. Potatoes, yams, masa harina, sourdough bread. See what works best for you.
Drop that fancy water and drink some fruit juice instead. 2-3 L of extra fluid is probably to much, try 1 L.
Also oysters and liver. Everyone should be eating oysters and liver

Forget those blood tests for now. Try getting up to 3000-4000 kcal a day first.


I would also be interest in when and how your problems started. Most of us seem to have very similar problems. Lots of early 20's males too.
Really starting to think that staying inside and staring into a computer screen all youth while probably masturbating way too much has something to do with it..

Oh yeah right, stop masturbating!
Find an ejaculation frequency that works best for you once your libido is back (1-2 times per month is a good place to start)

Ha yes I could not agree more. I am on day 30 of no masturbation after 10+ years of daily masturbation. This is becoming a huge problem for males in their 20s.

 

[Nstocks]

Drop the RO water. Seriously it's doing way more harm that good. It's totally devoid of ANY minerals and can cause a huge electrolyte imbalance. I use RO water for a reef aquarium and it's totally pure water with 0 total dissolved solids (minerals and other junk from the water purification in the city/town). This alone can be contributing to your fatigue. Change ANY water for fruit juice.

Regarding masturbation; when I ate a paleo diet I actually forgot to ejaculate! Somehow I thought about it and realised it had been MONTHS without masturbation. I added carbs and my libido increased a lot at first but now it's steady. I probably masturbate 1-3 times a week. I'm 24 years old and suspect that's low frequency but too much really does make me feel tired. Think about it; the human reproductive system is mainly to, well, reproduce and realistically speaking, we don't need to reproduce every day. I'd even say that it wasn't evolved to expect a high frequency anyway. Of course reproducing is only part of it but it's worthwhile to keep it balanced.

I was in a similar situation to yourself and it took someone (Zach on here) to tell me to just forget everything that clearly had not been working and just try something new. Experiment and try something different for a week to see how you feel.

 

[kineticz]

I find reducing serotonin helps brain fog which causes hypometabolism in the prefrontal cortex responsible for memory and dopamine receptors.

Your reaction to alcohol implies that your adrenal pathways are not respiring efficiently, as heavy alcohol intake sharply reduces thyroid and increases the pregnenolone transfer in the adrenals via ACTH.

I have had the same things happen after alcohol, a sharp increase in wellbeing the next day, and I put it down to a sluggish thyroid and liver increasing the build up of pregnenolone in the adrenal mitochondria.

This backlog in your adrenal pathways is shown by your excess Androstenedione , caused by a deficiency in metabolism, liver detoxification pathways, and general energy expenditure. It is building up and preferentially spilling over into Estrone. Estrone blocks thyroid but does not have the same mood boosting benefits as Estradiol in my opinion. Excess estrone I am sure will also be responsible for causing brain fog as it is hypometabolic.

Vitamin E is shown to be very effective for reducing Estrone.

Your priority should be to increase thyroid and reduce serotonin and fatty acids. This should unplug the excesses.

Because all your adrenal hormones are elevated my theory is that this backlog is stressing the pituitary with a constant stimulation and downregulation of the ACTH signal.

You need to clear these excesses then work on boosting mitochondrial uptake of pregnenolone and use of sugar for energy. You are running on adrenaline alot. Adrenaline depletes testosterone-boosting minerals like dopamine, zinc and vitamin D.

 

[jsid]

Thanks for all the replies really appreciate it.

Skally - Honestly its hard to say when it all started. I always had issues with fatigue since back in High School around 14-15 years old. Never had that much of a sex drive. Things got really bad when I started college right out of high school at 18. Barley had enough energy to get to college once there it was all about staying awake. Being able to take in what we were learning was impossible. I think I finally realised how bad it was when one day I woke up without it (day after heavy drinking).

Amazoniac - Ya I defiantly need to get my calories up. I started today my breakfeast contained 510 calories and I'm actually about to eat again lol.

Nstocks - Ya your definitely right about the RO water. Will defiantly pick up fresh juices and begin drinking that.

kineticz - I've been looking everywhere on the net as to what might be causing my crazy hormone levels thanks for the reply. What are some of the best ways to increase my thyroid and reduce serotonin and fatty acids?

Thanks to everyone again!

 

[kineticz]

kineticz - I've been looking everywhere on the net as to what might be causing my crazy hormone levels thanks for the reply. What are some of the best ways to increase my thyroid and reduce serotonin and fatty acids?

Reduce serotonin:

http://peatarian.com/21378/ways-to-lower-serotonin

I also get great results with a lysine supplement.

Increase thyroid:

Lower estrone with vitamin E
More glucose + sodium + HIIT exercise
T3 supplier
Blood test for cholesterol and progesterone
Trial pregnenolone starting with transdermal, be very careful

 

[haidut]

Hey guys:

I'm very new to Dr.Peat but I've really liked what I've read so far. So a little about me I'm a 22 year old male 5'8.5 115 pounds. I deal with constant fatigue no matter how long I sleep for which has been going on for about 4 years.

Usually after 8 hours of sleep I'm way too tired to get up. It takes me about 10 hours have enough energy to get out of bed. I've had a sleep apnea test done which came back negative. I also deal with chronic brain fog 24/7. Lack of concentration,memory (which is terrible), unable to retain information,very low sex drive, hazy vision and basically never feeling completely in the moment (usually stuck in my head) I also have a very hard time putting on weight. Over the last 4 months I've cut out dairy, wheat, beef, avocado, pineapple, grains and alcohol. All things I'm sensitive too according to a food allergy test other than the grains. I've felt about a 30-40% improvement in fatigue and brain fog but I'm still affected by It every day. My diet consists of fruit like apples, bananas, organs, vegetables, chicken and salmon. I eat 3 meals a day. I also consume 2-3 L of reverse osmosis water a day.

Now a couple times over the course of the 4 years on nights I've drank alcohol heavily I've awoken feeling perfectly fine.This doesn't happen all the time just a few times.All symptoms gone and just a general feeling of how life should be. This feeling last for a couple hours before all my symptoms slowly return then I end up feeling worse than usual.

I've had some blood test done which are posted below. Would anyone have any insight on what could be going on. Really want to get my life going. Thanks!

DHEA/S 19 (Elevated) Range 3-10/pg/ml
Progesterone 23(Normal) Range 5-95
Androstenedione > 1000(Elevated) Range 151-350
Estrone 207 (Elevated) Range 30-58
Testosterone 77(Normal) Range 60-135
Estradiol 3 (Normal) Range 1-3
DHT 106
FSH 62 Range <125
LH 19 Range 10-25
So obviously really high numbers. Also my testosterone shows normal but for a 22 year old male I feel like it should be alot higher.

I also got a TH1 TH2 cytoken test done as I've read it contributes to brain fog. Alot of my numbers came back high and low.

IL 2 - High
INF Gamma - High
IL 4 - High
IL 17 - Low
IL 10 - High

I've also been checked for Lyme and Arthritis which came back negative. My Thyroid, Iron,Potassium,Calcium, and B12 levels are fine. So ya that's basically were I'm at now any feedback or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Your blood work shows classic signs of enlarged/overactive adrenals. You can ask your doctor to test ACTH and cortisol to see if the overstimulation of the adrenals is coming from the pituitary. If ACTH is normal, then the doctor will probably send you to get a kidney ultrasound. Have you had your prolactin tested as well?

 

[jsid]

Hey guys:

I'm very new to Dr.Peat but I've really liked what I've read so far. So a little about me I'm a 22 year old male 5'8.5 115 pounds. I deal with constant fatigue no matter how long I sleep for which has been going on for about 4 years.

Usually after 8 hours of sleep I'm way too tired to get up. It takes me about 10 hours have enough energy to get out of bed. I've had a sleep apnea test done which came back negative. I also deal with chronic brain fog 24/7. Lack of concentration,memory (which is terrible), unable to retain information,very low sex drive, hazy vision and basically never feeling completely in the moment (usually stuck in my head) I also have a very hard time putting on weight. Over the last 4 months I've cut out dairy, wheat, beef, avocado, pineapple, grains and alcohol. All things I'm sensitive too according to a food allergy test other than the grains. I've felt about a 30-40% improvement in fatigue and brain fog but I'm still affected by It every day. My diet consists of fruit like apples, bananas, organs, vegetables, chicken and salmon. I eat 3 meals a day. I also consume 2-3 L of reverse osmosis water a day.

Now a couple times over the course of the 4 years on nights I've drank alcohol heavily I've awoken feeling perfectly fine.This doesn't happen all the time just a few times.All symptoms gone and just a general feeling of how life should be. This feeling last for a couple hours before all my symptoms slowly return then I end up feeling worse than usual.

I've had some blood test done which are posted below. Would anyone have any insight on what could be going on. Really want to get my life going. Thanks!

DHEA/S 19 (Elevated) Range 3-10/pg/ml
Progesterone 23(Normal) Range 5-95
Androstenedione > 1000(Elevated) Range 151-350
Estrone 207 (Elevated) Range 30-58
Testosterone 77(Normal) Range 60-135
Estradiol 3 (Normal) Range 1-3
DHT 106
FSH 62 Range <125
LH 19 Range 10-25
So obviously really high numbers. Also my testosterone shows normal but for a 22 year old male I feel like it should be alot higher.

I also got a TH1 TH2 cytoken test done as I've read it contributes to brain fog. Alot of my numbers came back high and low.

IL 2 - High
INF Gamma - High
IL 4 - High
IL 17 - Low
IL 10 - High

I've also been checked for Lyme and Arthritis which came back negative. My Thyroid, Iron,Potassium,Calcium, and B12 levels are fine. So ya that's basically were I'm at now any feedback or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Your blood work shows classic signs of enlarged/overactive adrenals. You can ask your doctor to test ACTH and cortisol to see if the overstimulation of the adrenals is coming from the pituitary. If ACTH is normal, then the doctor will probably send you to get a kidney ultrasound. Have you had your prolactin tested as well?

No I haven't had it tested yet. Is there any supplement I can take in the mean time to calm down my adrenals while I'm waiting for my appointments? Thanks!

 

[jimmyquick]

Hey jsid,

Im not quite the lab expert, but Id figured id give you my 2 cents as it seems you are having a lot of the same problems I did just a few months ago.

First, how many calories a day are you eating? I would bet your underrating by quite a bit, causing a good deal of your issues. I am 5'10" and weight 148 and im still quite skinny so 115 seems crazy low.

When I was underweight, about 120, I had near all the same problems you are describing. My biggest ones where anxiety, fatigue, insomnia, low libido, hair thinning, and seemingly allergic to everything I ate. I got quite sick about 2 years ago and lost a ton of weight and once I got better from being ill, I really struggled to gain my weight back.

It took a while for me, (about one year, would have been less if I knew about Peat) but once my weight got back to about 140 everything starting getting better quick. The hardest part was getting down the food as I was literally just not hungry and it felt like it would just sit in my stomach for hours. I too, have always had the hardest time gaining weight no matter what I eat. I think for people like us who normally have a very fast adjusting metabolism, (hard to gain weight) underrating creates a whole heap of problems fast.

That being said, I think Amazoniac and Nstocks naild it. The alcohol gave you the extra calories so changing out that water for juice would do you some good. I think you need to try every way possible to make sure you are in caloric surplus and eating as much as possible. I know that sucks when your not hungry so I focused on drinking my calories when I could. But here is what I did:

1. Dropped all water and only drank juice when thirsty (I added sugar for more calories)
2. Focus on caloric dense foods for solid meals, ice cream made it easy to boost calories.
3.Made tons of fruit smoothies, (with Salt & Taurine to stimulate digestion) hat tip to Haidut for this.
I threw in everything I could like eggs, milk (maybe try goats milk powder?) dates, etc
4. Wall sits, taking a break the second I felt latic acid (this stimulated my appetite)
5. I made sure to get some sunlight everyday that I could.
6. I took NDT, this fixed all my problems fast, but more importantly it boosted my stomach acid and hunger so I could eat! I would look into this as a last resort. This also showed my all my problems where from my low metabolism.

Doing this allowed me to gain about 35 pounds in 6 months. Which is crazy to me as now I look normal! I still only consume about 3k calories a day and am still trying to increase it to 4k.

The cool thing for me is the anxiety, brain fog, thinking issues went away really quick once I was getting enough to eat. Then fatigue took a bit longer as I think it takes time for the thyroid to adjust. But now I no longer take NDT and have the energy to do whatever. It seems to be getting better and better everyday as I progressively eat more. But luckily, digestion is now normal, and while I eat more Peat friendly and I can now eat anything without feeling weird.

Anyway, hopefully my experience can help you. I know that crippling fatigue sucks man so hang in there. I was so tried and so worn out it was hard for me to get up to even make a meal!

 

[jsid]

Hey jsid,

Im not quite the lab expert, but Id figured id give you my 2 cents as it seems you are having a lot of the same problems I did just a few months ago.

First, how many calories a day are you eating? I would bet your underrating by quite a bit, causing a good deal of your issues. I am 5'10" and weight 148 and im still quite skinny so 115 seems crazy low.

When I was underweight, about 120, I had near all the same problems you are describing. My biggest ones where anxiety, fatigue, insomnia, low libido, hair thinning, and seemingly allergic to everything I ate. I got quite sick about 2 years ago and lost a ton of weight and once I got better from being ill, I really struggled to gain my weight back.

It took a while for me, (about one year, would have been less if I knew about Peat) but once my weight got back to about 140 everything starting getting better quick. The hardest part was getting down the food as I was literally just not hungry and it felt like it would just sit in my stomach for hours. I too, have always had the hardest time gaining weight no matter what I eat. I think for people like us who normally have a very fast adjusting metabolism, (hard to gain weight) underrating creates a whole heap of problems fast.

That being said, I think Amazoniac and Nstocks naild it. The alcohol gave you the extra calories so changing out that water for juice would do you some good. I think you need to try every way possible to make sure you are in caloric surplus and eating as much as possible. I know that sucks when your not hungry so I focused on drinking my calories when I could. But here is what I did:

1. Dropped all water and only drank juice when thirsty (I added sugar for more calories)
2. Focus on caloric dense foods for solid meals, ice cream made it easy to boost calories.
3.Made tons of fruit smoothies, (with Salt & Taurine to stimulate digestion) hat tip to Haidut for this.
I threw in everything I could like eggs, milk (maybe try goats milk powder?) dates, etc
4. Wall sits, taking a break the second I felt latic acid (this stimulated my appetite)
5. I made sure to get some sunlight everyday that I could.
6. I took NDT, this fixed all my problems fast, but more importantly it boosted my stomach acid and hunger so I could eat! I would look into this as a last resort. This also showed my all my problems where from my low metabolism.

Doing this allowed me to gain about 35 pounds in 6 months. Which is crazy to me as now I look normal! I still only consume about 3k calories a day and am still trying to increase it to 4k.

The cool thing for me is the anxiety, brain fog, thinking issues went away really quick once I was getting enough to eat. Then fatigue took a bit longer as I think it takes time for the thyroid to adjust. But now I no longer take NDT and have the energy to do whatever. It seems to be getting better and better everyday as I progressively eat more. But luckily, digestion is now normal, and while I eat more Peat friendly and I can now eat anything without feeling weird.

Anyway, hopefully my experience can help you. I know that crippling fatigue sucks man so hang in there. I was so tried and so worn out it was hard for me to get up to even make a meal!

It's good to hear your doing good man. Ya I eat about 1600 calories a day and I never have much of an appetite. The last couple days I've been getting to 2500 calories however I feel stuffed all day lol. Is 2500 calories enough? I've also been going to the toilet like 2-3 time a day. Is that normal? I'm usually a constipated type person aha.

 

[jimmyquick]

I feel ya man. I was also about 1600 and was never hungry. I literally had to remind myself to eat. Now im about 3k and I have the hunger for just about that. But im still trying to push it up to 4k to see what will happen. Lucky I no longer feel stuffed and its becoming easier and easier to eat more.

2500 is a huge jump up. I think that stuffed feeling lasted about a week or two before my metabolism adjusted and it goes away. The increase in toilet time is a great sign of an improving metabolism and should be quite welcoming. As your body adjust more, you will go less. Keep at it and let us know how you get along.

 

[tara]

jsid

Is there any supplement I can take in the mean time to calm down my adrenals while I'm waiting for my appointments?

Food. :) My take on it is that when insufficient sugar is available to meet energy demands, stress hormones are called on to turn fat stores and protein into fuel. If the food shortage is ongoing and severe, results can include high stress on adrenals, chronic anxiety, reduced metabolism, depleted organs, and yes, fatigue and brain fog.

My guess is 2500 will not be enough for recovery, though it looks like a big improvement to me. Here's a related thread.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4028
Youreatopia would suggest 3500 cal daily minimum for most rapid and complete recovery. That is not from Peat - I have not seen him directly address recovery from severe chronic undereating, but I'll be pleased to see it if someone else has come across such.

I don't know if you've heard of the Minnesota semi-starvation experiment? Ancel Keys led a study in which young male wartime conscientious objectors were deliberately semi-starved for months on about 1600 cals. It turned out that for most of them, they needed more than 4000 cals to recover well.

Eating more may not resolve all your issues, but it seems to me like a necessary first step, and it may make a lot of improvements. Once this has been in place for a while you can consider what else is needed. Any hormonal supplements need good nutrition to support them anyway. Hopefully your appetite will kick in after a little once you start eating more.

My guess is that eating enough is more important than eating perfectly, but I still think (unlike youreatopia) that it is a good idea to keep an eye on some of Peat's key ideas like keeping PUFA low in favour of more saturated fat, make sure you get at least 100 g protein - somewhere along the line you may may well want more, and covering micronutrients - cronometer can be a useful tool for this.

I agree with the suggestions to replace water with juice and/or milk for a while, or even go for higher density by making smoothies with added sugar, cream, bananas etc.

Do you have your thyroid results? Peat and many here may take a different view to your doctor, depending on the numbers.
If you are starving, you can show apparently adequate levels of some nutrients because they are coming out of your own catabolising body.

 

[haidut]

Hey guys:

I'm very new to Dr.Peat but I've really liked what I've read so far. So a little about me I'm a 22 year old male 5'8.5 115 pounds. I deal with constant fatigue no matter how long I sleep for which has been going on for about 4 years.

Usually after 8 hours of sleep I'm way too tired to get up. It takes me about 10 hours have enough energy to get out of bed. I've had a sleep apnea test done which came back negative. I also deal with chronic brain fog 24/7. Lack of concentration,memory (which is terrible), unable to retain information,very low sex drive, hazy vision and basically never feeling completely in the moment (usually stuck in my head) I also have a very hard time putting on weight. Over the last 4 months I've cut out dairy, wheat, beef, avocado, pineapple, grains and alcohol. All things I'm sensitive too according to a food allergy test other than the grains. I've felt about a 30-40% improvement in fatigue and brain fog but I'm still affected by It every day. My diet consists of fruit like apples, bananas, organs, vegetables, chicken and salmon. I eat 3 meals a day. I also consume 2-3 L of reverse osmosis water a day.

Now a couple times over the course of the 4 years on nights I've drank alcohol heavily I've awoken feeling perfectly fine.This doesn't happen all the time just a few times.All symptoms gone and just a general feeling of how life should be. This feeling last for a couple hours before all my symptoms slowly return then I end up feeling worse than usual.

I've had some blood test done which are posted below. Would anyone have any insight on what could be going on. Really want to get my life going. Thanks!

DHEA/S 19 (Elevated) Range 3-10/pg/ml
Progesterone 23(Normal) Range 5-95
Androstenedione > 1000(Elevated) Range 151-350
Estrone 207 (Elevated) Range 30-58
Testosterone 77(Normal) Range 60-135
Estradiol 3 (Normal) Range 1-3
DHT 106
FSH 62 Range <125
LH 19 Range 10-25
So obviously really high numbers. Also my testosterone shows normal but for a 22 year old male I feel like it should be alot higher.

I also got a TH1 TH2 cytoken test done as I've read it contributes to brain fog. Alot of my numbers came back high and low.

IL 2 - High
INF Gamma - High
IL 4 - High
IL 17 - Low
IL 10 - High

I've also been checked for Lyme and Arthritis which came back negative. My Thyroid, Iron,Potassium,Calcium, and B12 levels are fine. So ya that's basically were I'm at now any feedback or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Your blood work shows classic signs of enlarged/overactive adrenals. You can ask your doctor to test ACTH and cortisol to see if the overstimulation of the adrenals is coming from the pituitary. If ACTH is normal, then the doctor will probably send you to get a kidney ultrasound. Have you had your prolactin tested as well?

No I haven't had it tested yet. Is there any supplement I can take in the mean time to calm down my adrenals while I'm waiting for my appointments? Thanks!

Well, if you calm the adrenals without stimulating thyroid you will have no energy to run on. Clonidine and high doses of salt will calm the adrenals but unless you boost metabolism with thyroid like kineticz said, you will feel worse. Vitamin E also reduce adrenalin, and you can try theanine for both cortisol and adrenalin. But it is crucial to also boost thyroid so that you don't end up feeling like a zombie due to low adrenaline combined with low thyroid.

 

[jimmyquick]

jsid

Is there any supplement I can take in the mean time to calm down my adrenals while I'm waiting for my appointments?

Food. :) My take on it is that when insufficient sugar is available to meet energy demands, stress hormones are called on to turn fat stores and protein into fuel. If the food shortage is ongoing and severe, results can include high stress on adrenals, chronic anxiety, reduced metabolism, depleted organs, and yes, fatigue and brain fog.

My guess is 2500 will not be enough for recovery, though it looks like a big improvement to me. Here's a related thread.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4028
Youreatopia would suggest 3500 cal daily minimum for most rapid and complete recovery. That is not from Peat - I have not seen him directly address recovery from severe chronic undereating, but I'll be pleased to see it if someone else has come across such.

I don't know if you've heard of the Minnesota semi-starvation experiment? Ancel Keys led a study in which young male wartime conscientious objectors were deliberately semi-starved for months on about 1600 cals. It turned out that for most of them, they needed more than 4000 cals to recover well.

Eating more may not resolve all your issues, but it seems to me like a necessary first step, and it may make a lot of improvements. Once this has been in place for a while you can consider what else is needed. Any hormonal supplements need good nutrition to support them anyway. Hopefully your appetite will kick in after a little once you start eating more.

My guess is that eating enough is more important than eating perfectly, but I still think (unlike youreatopia) that it is a good idea to keep an eye on some of Peat's key ideas like keeping PUFA low in favour of more saturated fat, make sure you get at least 100 g protein - somewhere along the line you may may well want more, and covering micronutrients - cronometer can be a useful tool for this.

I agree with the suggestions to replace water with juice and/or milk for a while, or even go for higher density by making smoothies with added sugar, cream, bananas etc.

Do you have your thyroid results? Peat and many here may take a different view to your doctor, depending on the numbers.
If you are starving, you can show apparently adequate levels of some nutrients because they are coming out of your own catabolising body.

Wow Tara, thanks for sharing this.I would also be pleased to see if Peat has addressed under eating and the best way to recover. I have also heard of the Minnesota semi-starvation study before but I didn't realized the amount of calories they had to start eating to fully cover. 4k just seems like so many, but I'm trying to work my way up to it as well. Do you happen to know off hand from the experiment that they had to make this jump in calories fast or gradually build up over a year or so?

Thanks for sharing about youreatopia as well. I can attest the phases recoveries are exactly what I went through. Its amazing as one seems to heal the symptoms and problems seem to go away in the exact order they came about.

 

[tara]

Wow Tara, thanks for sharing this.I would also be pleased to see if Peat has addressed under eating and the best way to recover. I have also heard of the Minnesota semi-starvation study before but I didn't realized the amount of calories they had to start eating to fully cover. 4k just seems like so many, but I'm trying to work my way up to it as well. Do you happen to know off hand from the experiment that they had to make this jump in calories fast or gradually build up over a year or so?

Thanks for sharing about youreatopia as well. I can attest the phases recoveries are exactly what I went through. Its amazing as one seems to heal the symptoms and problems seem to go away in the exact order they came about.

Great to hear you are making such good progress with this. An interesting to hear more confirmation of those recovery phases. I don't know or remember a lot of detail about the recovery process in the MSE. I think there may have been a comment about recovery taking from a few mths to 2 years. I don't know which parameters they measured to assess recovery. I think there are a couple of references to more info on the youreatopia thread. 2000 cals got them nowhere, regardless of vitamins and minerals etc. The youreatopia site suggests getting medical supervision for refeeding (esp in case of rare but sudden and dangerous refeeding syndrome), if you've been under 1000 cals or purging to gradual increase cals by IIRC a couple of hundred cals every few day till you get to the specified minimums. If not under 1000 cals and not purging, just go straight up to the minimums - for men under 25years, this is 3500.
My guess is that once your appetite is getting you to eat around 3500 or so, you can probably start trusting it more or less, and just check it now and then.

 

[tara]

If not under 1000 cals and not purging, just go straight up to the minimums - for men under 25years, this is 3500.

Gwyneth Olwyn (youreatopia) also has a post about tummy troubles - for when the digestive system isn't yet up to the demands of refeeding. I think her basic recommendation is to eat and drink lots of easy to digest calories and push it into uncomfortable but not intolerable, and rest a lot. But to bear in mind that full recovery won't get going properly till you get up near the prescribed minimum.

 

[jimmyquick]

^^^ Ok thank you. Funny, I have been tracking my calories the whole time and 2000 cals was def getting me no where as as site suggests. I was taking all sorts of vitamins as well so I can confirm that too! I think when I started hitting 2500k I noticed my anxiety just disappeared and life finally seemed a little bit easier. But of course I still had no energy and libido was sparse. But boy was it tough to get that down. There is no way I could have gotten down 3.5k. I dont know how these people were doing it. I think juice for me was a big help.

I think it took me about 3 months to finally be able to get in 3k. At this level I noticed my hunger came back and I could finally eat large meals and then be able to eat again an hour later with no problems. I finally feel like a bottomless pit again! I'll shoot for 3.5k this month then based on the site and report back. Perhaps this could help with the last bit of my issues and some much more needed energy.

Ironically, I have always been one of those type of people who could just eat whatever I wanted and never gain a single pound so underrating just destroyed me! Appreciate the comments and suggestions.

And sorry jsid, didnt mean to hijack your thread here, but hopefully all this can help you recover much faster than it took me.