Apple cider vinegar in small intestine...

[June]

Can someone explain to me what happens to Apple cider vinegar once it gets to the small intestine? Does it remain acidic there? I've had luck with it helping digestion but my main issue is bacterial overgrowth in intestines. I want something to travel to the small intestine and nuke all the bad guys there. What happens to apple cider vinegar in the bladder? I had the idea to use empty delayed release or enteric coated capsules to fill with apple cider vinegar. (do they even sell enteric coated ACV?) Is it safe? Is it even necessary? I know at some point bile comes and neutralizes the acidic contents in intestines but what if my bile is sluggish? Will it cause harm to small intestine or will it just move right through me like water? I'm not versed in how this part of anatomy functions. Happy Holidays everyone!

 

[jmparret]

I found this in the similar threads. Might help it is peppermint oil

The treatment of small intestinal bacterial overgrowth with enteric-coated peppermint oil: a case report

Abstract Recent investigations have shown that bacterial overgrowth of the small intestine is associated with a number of functional somatic disorders, including irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), fibromyalgia, and chronic fatigue syndrome. A number of controlled studies have shown that...

raypeatforum.com

 

[mostlylurking]

Can someone explain to me what happens to Apple cider vinegar once it gets to the small intestine? Does it remain acidic there? I've had luck with it helping digestion but my main issue is bacterial overgrowth in intestines. I want something to travel to the small intestine and nuke all the bad guys there. What happens to apple cider vinegar in the bladder? I had the idea to use empty delayed release or enteric coated capsules to fill with apple cider vinegar. (do they even sell enteric coated ACV?) Is it safe? Is it even necessary? I know at some point bile comes and neutralizes the acidic contents in intestines but what if my bile is sluggish? Will it cause harm to small intestine or will it just move right through me like water? I'm not versed in how this part of anatomy functions. Happy Holidays everyone!

If you focus on normalizing transit time, peristalsis, and stomach acid acidity you probably would have better luck normalizing small intestine gut bacteria.

SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

Is it possible that small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) is simply a symptom of an underlying vitamin B1 or thiamine deficiency?

www.hormonesmatter.com

It worked for me.

 

[chimdp]

Can someone explain to me what happens to Apple cider vinegar once it gets to the small intestine? Does it remain acidic there? I've had luck with it helping digestion but my main issue is bacterial overgrowth in intestines. I want something to travel to the small intestine and nuke all the bad guys there. What happens to apple cider vinegar in the bladder? I had the idea to use empty delayed release or enteric coated capsules to fill with apple cider vinegar. (do they even sell enteric coated ACV?) Is it safe? Is it even necessary? I know at some point bile comes and neutralizes the acidic contents in intestines but what if my bile is sluggish? Will it cause harm to small intestine or will it just move right through me like water? I'm not versed in how this part of anatomy functions. Happy Holidays everyone!

Do you have Constipation or diarrhea dominant SIBO? treatments vary based on the type you have. ACV can help but if definitely won't cure SIBO on its own. Some newer research indicates if you have constipation dominant SIBO (which is triggered by methane mainly), more acid (ACV, HCl, etc.) may make it worse as the archaea that makes methane feeds off the hydrogen from acid. There's lots of good SIBO podcasts to start hearing what people are saying but there's a lot varying opinions and strategies depending on your case.

 

[June]

@jmparret I was considering this! But I believe I read somewhere that it slows down transit time.

@mostlylurking I had a terrible reaction to Thiamine. That's how I know I don't process sulfur well. And normalizing what you mentioned is literally impossible. Especially when there's no clear picture as to what is causing this in the first place. But yes, everything you pointed out does need to be rectified.

@chimdp I am severely constipated, though I know I don't react well to thiamine or red meat. So it's possible I have methane and hydrogen sulfide producing bugs? I reacted badly to HCI too. Is there a way to take ACV, can I buffer it with some potassium+magnesium? But then there's the concern that magnesium may make my stomach too alkaline. At this moment I am pursuing the idea of H.Pylori. Some swabs I tested showed I was positive. Do you think this could upset how the intestines are functioning, or the gases that are being created by my gut microbes? Oh and i think I am severely estrogen dominant after a gynocologist tried to poison me with high dose birth control pills and prometrium.

PS. Don't know if this is a point of interest but I recently analyzed my DNA results and it recommended Molybdenum for one of my genetic mutations. I wonder if sulfur pathway is the root issue.

 

[mostlylurking]

I had a terrible reaction to Thiamine. That's how I know I don't process sulfur well.

Can you tell me please which thiamine you reacted badly to?

 

[mostlylurking]

I had a terrible reaction to Thiamine. That's how I know I don't process sulfur well.

I found an interesting article about sulfur intolerance that you might find of interest:

Sulfur Intolerance - Symptoms, Causes and Treatment - Dominick Hussey

In this article, I will describe what triggered me to learn more about sulfur, how sulfur is essential to the body, what are the symptoms of sulfur intolerance and how to treat it.

www.dominickhussey.ca

 

[June]

I found an interesting article about sulfur intolerance that you might find of interest:

Sulfur Intolerance - Symptoms, Causes and Treatment - Dominick Hussey

In this article, I will describe what triggered me to learn more about sulfur, how sulfur is essential to the body, what are the symptoms of sulfur intolerance and how to treat it.

www.dominickhussey.ca

Thanks! Will take a look. I reacted to Thiamine HCI and Bentfotiamine. Thiamine HCI made my gas smell like sulfur and Bentfotiamine made my head feel strange and bloated.

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks! Will take a look. I reacted to Thiamine HCI and Bentfotiamine. Thiamine HCI made my gas smell like sulfur and Bentfotiamine made my head feel strange and bloated.

According to that article I provided, molybdenum might be helpful if you have a problem tolerating sulfur. Perhaps further research would reveal the safety issues of supplementing a little tiny bit of molybdenum. I don't know about it.

There's a sulfur component in the thiamine molecule. Also, some gut bacteria consume thiamine and some gut bacteria manufacture thiamine. Maybe you carry a hefty amount of the thiamine consuming bacteria and the sulfur smell is because of that? The microbiome in the gut is extremely complicated. I do know thiamine is required for life and having negative reactions to it because of sulfur is problematic. Sulfur is also required for life.

link: orthomolecular.org/nutrients/sulfur.html
"Sulfur, an acid-forming, non-metallic element, is not treated as an essential mineral, since there are no specific deficiency symptoms. It is the hydrogen sulfate in onions that causes us to weep when cutting or peeling them. It is found in the hair, nails and skin, and as much sulfur as potassium is normally found in the body. Sulfur is used to detoxify the body, assist the immune system and fight the effects of aging, as well as age related illnesses such as arthritis. Although sulfur might not be an essential mineral, it is an essential element of protein, biotin, as well as vitamin B1. It is part of the chemical structure of the amino acids methionine, cysteine, taurine and glutathione. It is further needed in the synthesis of collagen, which is needed for good skin integrity.

Sulfur is also present in two B vitamins, thiamine and biotin; interestingly, thiamine is important to skin and biotin to hair. Sulfur is also available as various sulfates or sulfides. But overall, sulfur is most important as part of protein.

Deficiencies will only really happen if a diet is deprived of protein, or a poorly planned vegan diet, and a protein shortage is more likely to happen than a sulfur deficiency. Sulfur is said to clean the blood and to help protect us against toxic build-up

Sulfur is normally found in protein foods, such as eggs, garlic, lettuce, cabbage and Brussels sprouts"

 

[eimearrose]

@jmparret I was considering this! But I believe I read somewhere that it slows down transit time.

@mostlylurking I had a terrible reaction to Thiamine. That's how I know I don't process sulfur well. And normalizing what you mentioned is literally impossible. Especially when there's no clear picture as to what is causing this in the first place. But yes, everything you pointed out does need to be rectified.

@chimdp I am severely constipated, though I know I don't react well to thiamine or red meat. So it's possible I have methane and hydrogen sulfide producing bugs? I reacted badly to HCI too. Is there a way to take ACV, can I buffer it with some potassium+magnesium? But then there's the concern that magnesium may make my stomach too alkaline. At this moment I am pursuing the idea of H.Pylori. Some swabs I tested showed I was positive. Do you think this could upset how the intestines are functioning, or the gases that are being created by my gut microbes? Oh and i think I am severely estrogen dominant after a gynocologist tried to poison me with high dose birth control pills and prometrium.

PS. Don't know if this is a point of interest but I recently analyzed my DNA results and it recommended Molybdenum for one of my genetic mutations. I wonder if sulfur pathway is the root issue.

I think h pylori will be overgrown if you have low stomach acid. This wouldn't be surprising given the constipation and suspected sibo.
What have you tried for estrogen dominance? Are you using progesterone? It might help get your stomach acid production up. How's your thyroid function? Also are you doing anything to speed up transit time/assist with the constipation? I have been very estrogen dominant and find progest-e helpful. For the bowels carrot salad plus regular use of cascara helps. Improved gut transit time should help both the sibo and estrogen dominance.
I also suspect sibo for myself but I'm also recovering from celiac disease which has now gotten me coming around to @mostlylurking 's thiamine stuff. I haven't experimented with that yet while I was still going through testing so have nothing to offer there. But I think improving the estrogen dominance has to be done alongside fixing the gut-they are intimately connected.

 

[Dutchie]

I suspect I'm dealing with H2S bacteria overgrowth as well.
I want to incorporate Epsom Salt,so I can get in some sulfate, but transdermally so that it bypasses the gut.

Foot bath is the most common way to achieve this, but I'm wondering if there's another effective quicker option to do this? bc I hate having to sit with my feet in a bucket of the warm water solution.

 

[mostlylurking]

I also suspect sibo for myself but I'm also recovering from celiac disease which has now gotten me coming around to @mostlylurking 's thiamine stuff. I haven't experimented with that yet while I was still going through testing so have nothing to offer there. But I think improving the estrogen dominance has to be done alongside fixing the gut-they are intimately connected.

I tested as strongly gluten sensitive but I never got the biopsy. It made more sense to me to just avoid gluten like the plague. So I did that for over 15 years. Now that I take the 2 grams of thiamine hcl/day I don't seem to be as sensitive to gluten and I cheat a little bit once in a while and seem to be able to get away with it. Gluten is terrible and should be avoided by everybody in general.

Have you read this article? SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

I want to incorporate Epsom Salt,so I can get in some sulfate, but transdermally so that it bypasses the gut.

Foot bath is the most common way to achieve this, but I'm wondering if there's another effective quicker option to do this? bc I hate having to sit with my feet in a bucket of the warm water solution.

You could slather yourself with the liquid lotions or gels I guess but it's pretty itchy. I just soak in epsom salts baths myself.

 

[eimearrose]

I tested as strongly gluten sensitive but I never got the biopsy. It made more sense to me to just avoid gluten like the plague. So I did that for over 15 years. Now that I take the 2 grams of thiamine hcl/day I don't seem to be as sensitive to gluten and I cheat a little bit once in a while and seem to be able to get away with it. Gluten is terrible and should be avoided by everybody in general.

Have you read this article? SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

You could slather yourself with the liquid lotions or gels I guess but it's pretty itchy. I just soak in epsom salts baths myself.

Yes I have read the article and it's what is turning me on to trying thiamine. I used to be able to eat gluten and feel nothing for several days. When I did the recent reintroduction to confirm the diagnosis, I got immediate neurological side effects (dizziness, headache, tinnitus, heart palpitations). The gut symptoms took a few days to get going. I have suspected celiac for several years and just avoided gluten but I have several family members with some random GI issues who I suspect might be celiac too and I wanted to confirm my diagnosis as it will be easier for them to get tested if they have a first degree relative.
Did you work your way up to 2g? I was thinking of starting at 500mg thiamine hcl.

 

[Dutchie]

I tested as strongly gluten sensitive but I never got the biopsy. It made more sense to me to just avoid gluten like the plague. So I did that for over 15 years. Now that I take the 2 grams of thiamine hcl/day I don't seem to be as sensitive to gluten and I cheat a little bit once in a while and seem to be able to get away with it. Gluten is terrible and should be avoided by everybody in general.

Have you read this article? SIBO, IBS, and Constipation: Unrecognized Thiamine Deficiency? - Hormones Matter

You could slather yourself with the liquid lotions or gels I guess but it's pretty itchy. I just soak in epsom salts baths myself.

Magnesium oil/gel is not the same as magnesium sulfate/epsom salt.

 

[mostlylurking]

es I have read the article and it's what is turning me on to trying thiamine. I used to be able to eat gluten and feel nothing for several days. When I did the recent reintroduction to confirm the diagnosis, I got immediate neurological side effects (dizziness, headache, tinnitus, heart palpitations). The gut symptoms took a few days to get going. I have suspected celiac for several years and just avoided gluten but I have several family members with some random GI issues who I suspect might be celiac too and I wanted to confirm my diagnosis as it will be easier for them to get tested if they have a first degree relative.

The official difference between being gluten sensitive and having "celiac" disease is a biopsy of the intestine to determine the amount of damage. When you say "confirm my diagnosis" did you undergo the surgery for the biopsy? Or did you self test by abstaining from gluten and then reintroduce it? It's a semantics thing only. I think that the medical industry is also willing to label you as "celiac" if you react badly to eating gluten AND you have celiac skin issues (aka celiac sprue). At least that's how it worked 25 years ago when I was diagnosed via an Alcat sensitivity test.

The description of your neurological symptoms sound very familiar. I had leaky gut and was almost universally reactive to all foods and environmental chemicals. Not a fun place to be. I was also strongly estrogen dominant and hypothyroid. I take progesterone and prescription desiccated thyroid for these.

Did you work your way up to 2g? I was thinking of starting at 500mg thiamine hcl.

Yes, I worked my way up from 300mg 2Xday to 1 gram 2Xday over a two month period. I would increase the dose after a week/ten days, each time the current dose stopped working so well. When I was at 1500mg 2Xday and felt the need to increase again I searched for guidance on line and found Dr. Costantini's website; I found his information there very helpful. His information about oral thiamine hcl and the dose he found that worked for his patients guided me to the understanding that I probably needed 2 grams/day. This amount, taken daily equals to one 100mg injection of thiamine hcl per week.

 

[mostlylurking]

Magnesium oil/gel is not the same as magnesium sulfate/epsom salt.

You're right. However, they do contain sulfur:

Magnesium Gel | Ancient Minerals

Ancient Minerals® Magnesium Gel. Find out how a therapeutic massage can be even better with the power of magnesium to ease muscle cramps and pain.

www.ancient-minerals.com

"Magnesium Gel Ultra: 65mg elemental magnesium and 25mg elemental sulfur (from OptiMSM®) per 1 ml"

Magnesium Oil | Ancient Minerals

Ancient Minerals® Ultra Pure Magnesium Oil, The Original, recommended by Dr. Mark Sircus. Beat low magnesium with the trusted brand for topical therapy.

www.ancient-minerals.com

"55mg elemental magnesium and 40mg elemental sulfur (from OptiMSM®) per 1ml / 6 sprays"

I tried some of these but they made my skin burn and itch. I prefer to soak in a tub with a cup of epsom salts and also some baking soda.

 

[eimearrose]

The official difference between being gluten sensitive and having "celiac" disease is a biopsy of the intestine to determine the amount of damage. When you say "confirm my diagnosis" did you undergo the surgery for the biopsy? Or did you self test by abstaining from gluten and then reintroduce it? It's a semantics thing only. I think that the medical industry is also willing to label you as "celiac" if you react badly to eating gluten AND you have celiac skin issues (aka celiac sprue). At least that's how it worked 25 years ago when I was diagnosed via an Alcat sensitivity test.

The description of your neurological symptoms sound very familiar. I had leaky gut and was almost universally reactive to all foods and environmental chemicals. Not a fun place to be. I was also strongly estrogen dominant and hypothyroid. I take progesterone and prescription desiccated thyroid for these.

Yes, I worked my way up from 300mg 2Xday to 1 gram 2Xday over a two month period. I would increase the dose after a week/ten days, each time the current dose stopped working so well. When I was at 1500mg 2Xday and felt the need to increase again I searched for guidance on line and found Dr. Costantini's website; I found his information there very helpful. His information about oral thiamine hcl and the dose he found that worked for his patients guided me to the understanding that I probably needed 2 grams/day. This amount, taken daily equals to one 100mg injection of thiamine hcl per week.

I refused the biopsy, which I was supposed to have after I tested positive for tissue transglutaminase antibodies. I had previously tested positive for one of the HLA DQ8 alleles (B1 02.03) so for me that was enough. On top of that I have exocrine pancreatic insufficiency which is known to co-occur with celiac disease and all the other usual reasons were ruled out (IBD, cystic fibrosis, alcohol abuse, cancer, IgG4 disease). The doctors here (I'm in the UK) have only recently restarted the biopsies for people who test positive for the antibodies which had been put on hold over covid and the antibody test along with sufficient symptomology was considered enough for diagnosis. It's barbaric having to eat gluten for a protracted period of time as it just gets worse. I had been a year gluten free and did 6 weeks for the antibody test. I would have had to wait another 4-6 months for the biopsy! It's still an option for me but I would have to eat gluten again at least 6 weeks before.
I also use progesterone and synthetic thyroid in a 1:1 ratio. Tried 2:1 but more T3 works better for me. Warmer and better gut motility. I can get away with a lot less cascara now.
Thanks for the info re thiamine dosing.

 

[mostlylurking]

Thanks for the info re thiamine dosing.

You're welcome. I need to edit the thiamine dosing story. It took me 4 months to work up to my optimum dose. I was just feeling myself along and I didn't have a doctor helping me. If I had found Dr. Costantini's website sooner I think I would have shortened the 4 months of experimentation way down, maybe to one month.

When I started taking higher doses of thiamine, my hypothyroid symptoms went wacko. I had pretty severe hypothyroid symptoms even while taking 3 grains of desiccated thyroid (NP Thyroid by Acella); I couldn't get my temp up to normal, I hurt all over, had brain fog, my pulse was all over the place. When I took my first dose (300mg) of thiamine hcl with water (never with sweet things), my temperature increased a full degree to normal and all my inflammation disappeared within 45 minutes.

I got my thyroid blood tests done 2 months early because I thought that my medication had stopped working. The lab tests showed my t3 was dangerously high (while I had hypothyroid symptoms) so my doctor lowered my med down from 180mg to 135mg. I needed less thyroid med while taking the high dose thiamine.

 

[Dutchie]

You're right. However, they do contain sulfur:

Magnesium Gel | Ancient Minerals

Ancient Minerals® Magnesium Gel. Find out how a therapeutic massage can be even better with the power of magnesium to ease muscle cramps and pain.

www.ancient-minerals.com

"Magnesium Gel Ultra: 65mg elemental magnesium and 25mg elemental sulfur (from OptiMSM®) per 1 ml"

Magnesium Oil | Ancient Minerals

Ancient Minerals® Ultra Pure Magnesium Oil, The Original, recommended by Dr. Mark Sircus. Beat low magnesium with the trusted brand for topical therapy.

www.ancient-minerals.com

"55mg elemental magnesium and 40mg elemental sulfur (from OptiMSM®) per 1ml /

I tried some of these but they made my skin burn and itch. I prefer to soak in a tub with a cup of epsom salts and also some baking soda.

sprays"

I've heard many people say they experienced itching when using magnesium oil.
That's why I like the epsom salt, bc it's already sulfate as opposed to just sulphur.

I have epsom salt, but I was wondering if it would work to make a paste out of it with some water and then slather it on the wrist or something else...
I just find it annoying to sit with my feet in a small tub to soak it up.....(I wonder if my feet even sole up that much).

 

[mostlylurking]

sprays"

I've heard many people say they experienced itching when using magnesium oil.
That's why I like the epsom salt, bc it's already sulfate as opposed to just sulphur.

I have epsom salt, but I was wondering if it would work to make a paste out of it with some water and then slather it on the wrist or something else...
I just find it annoying to sit with my feet in a small tub to soak it up.....(I wonder if my feet even sole up that much).

Do you have a bath tub?