Aajonus Vonderplanitz jumpstart / cliffsnotes / overview (raw, unpasteurized living)

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Twohandsondeck
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@Twohandsondeck What scares me to try it are the anecdotes of nasty sickness episodes. Read 2 reports on this forum, one about being unable to move, and another about having lots of diarrhea and intense stomach pain for a month from drinking rotten milk.
And sourcing good and fresh meat is not easy, especially if you live in the city.
It's also a quite socially isolating lifestyle
Yeah man, I gotcha. Maybe I can be a word of encouragement.

Aajonus would say that any bout of vomit or diarrhea is a strong detox reaction. According to one of his anecdotes, a boyfriend/girlfriend ate the same raw, farm raised fish, and the girlfriend chucked it while the boyfriend didn't have any problems. Aajonus suggested that they have the vomit analyzed to see what was in it, and - because the boyfriend was an heir of a great deal of wealth, as the story goes - he spent about $2,000 to see what was in it. Apparently over half of it was pharmaceutical medication that the girl had been taking throughout most of her life.

That being said, the recommendation for raw fish is strictly wild-caught ocean varieties... Noting from fresh water regardless of labeling or circumstance.

The other anecdote he gives was about the heavy metal content of fish. He talks about experimenting with the feces of himself and dogs, I think it was, to find that after eating swordfish, the mercury that appears in the stool following cooked swordfish is 12% and the mercury that appears in the stool following the raw swordfish is 96%. The argument based on this is that as long as heat hasn't been applied to the meat, the body can appropriately isolate the toxic heavy metals to out the bowels appropriately.

I've now consumed a few types of raw meat, including supermarket chicken, supermarket steak, wild caught shrimp, and pasture-raised chicken, beef, and organs. Literally zero digestive distress with any of it. The supermarket chicken tastes pretty grey compared to the stuff I got at the local farm, but again it digests perfectly fine. I left one of the chicken breasts out for 2 days and still ate it no problem.

I've also had green clay that's been sitting in mineral water for 6 days on a daily basis, no issues.

The rule about raw and unpasteurized animal food (I would secondly add that it ought to be pasture-raised animal food) is that as long as it gets oxygen, it's fine. Aerobic bacteria are seen as helpful in the PD community while anaerobic bacteria are still recognized as being a major cause for concern. This is where the high meat thing comes in... Put some meat in a jar, open it up for an hour every 3 days and you can ferment it for years and years. It turns into a green-gray-black liquid and it's disgusting but there's plenty of people on video eating the stuff to be perfectly fine, lol. Aajonus remarks that he's eaten raw cheese and raw butter that's been left at room temperature for a year. He just swipes off the top where the mold spores are... Which, according to him, can cause you to 'detox for a year.' I'm not ready to find out what he's talking about, but suffice it to say that the raw stuff is WAY WAY easier to digest than the pasteurized and cooked stuff.

Of particular note - As for the parasite thing, Aajonus will speak that it's nothing to worry about. If you have one, it's your friend, and it's there to keep you alive. He tells a story at one point that he lost a couple of 40 foot tapeworms when he was in his 50's (I surmise the timing) after fermenting some raw milk and raw carob powder together for like 2 months. [Don't hold me to a fire on these numbers, they're loose but not far off]

Here's a couple sources for raw butter, raw cheese, raw cream, raw honey, etc in the US:



I went to a birthday party the other day and I ate the stupid chicken sandwich lettuce thing and had some tequila and smelled bad for a day. It's whatever. The thing about the primal diet is that the word "detoxification" is used all the time, but the essence of it is building. I've found that the more I stuff myself full of raw, unadulterated animal fats, the easier it is to digest all of the stuff that used to previously give me a moment of pause. Aajonus told the story that when he was 20 and about to die of cancer, after he found the raw carrot juice & milk that he returned to his diet of RC cola and donuts to become autistic in 10 days again. Then he would get back on the milk and carrot juice and come out of it again. He said he did that 3 times over 2.5 years to finally realize that the food matters, lol.

People give twisted faces at first and they will certainly be offput at first seeing a person bite into raw meat, but after a quick conversation of 'raw cheese is everywhere, nobody has a problem with it... Raw milk is whatever, raw butter isn't widely available but okay I see your point, raw vegetable juice is supposed to be healthy, and I guess it's true that raw meat as steak tartare, sushi, and carpaccio is a thing all over the world...' Then they put their head back on. It's really not that radical besides the opposing viewpoint of parasites and glorification of fermenting animal products to make them a more healthful substance.
 
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Twohandsondeck
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One thing that Aajonus' and Peat's views seem to share, is an avoidance of starchy or soluble-fiber-rich foods.
That's mostly true. Aajonus will first recommend a "nut formula" to curb starch cravings which is just raw butter, raw honey, raw egg, and nuts blended together... But he also permits eating small amounts of cooked starch in addition to this in the case of generalized vitamin deficiency. Taken from the remedy index:

VITAMIN DEFICIENCIES, when severe, are indicated by dark circles under eyes, pallid face, poor energy, sleeplessness for people who are usually able to sleep, and fearful attitudes.

Eating plenty of fresh raw unripe fruits, unheated honey, vegetable juices and sometimes salads supplies naturally bioactive, enzyme-bound vitamins for proper assimilation and utilization.

Symptoms of chronic vitamin deficiency are powdery tongue in the morning, loss of peripheral vision, flatulence, nervous and fearful thoughts about the future and related psychological complications (like making difficulties where none exist). A chronic vitamin deficiency is often misdiagnosed as a severe potassium deficiency. Ironically, consuming vitamin supplements increase those symptoms rather than mitigate symptoms.

Eating plenty of fresh raw vegetable juices, raw unripe fruit, especially banana and melon, and frequently eating small amounts of Nut Formula (page 194), or a little cooked starch with plenty of raw fat (e.g., unsalted raw butter, avocado, stone-pressed olive oil) and sometimes a fresh raw salad gradually replenishes missing vitamins.

Avoid eating salads with oils of any kind (olive, peanut, etc.) - the combination prevents the vitamins in salads from being digested. However, raw oils may be eaten with cooked starches at the same meal with a salad.

In the "Aging" entry, it also mentions this:

AGING in our “advanced” society is basically a process of body deterioration leading toward disease and death. That deterioration is caused by accumulated toxicity, limited cellular reproduction, cellular mutations, and cellular exhaustion. Aging and deterioration do not have to be synonymous.
Symptoms: loss of hair moisture, dexterity, skin tone, muscle tone, flesh tone, and strength.

Consuming a raw diet in which 40% of calories are raw fat prevents the “normal” process of body deterioration. The body gradually or quickly deteriorates without fat. At least 3% and up to 30% of that raw fat should be from raw milk, that is unsalted raw butter, raw cream, no-saltadded raw cheese, full-fat raw milk and raw plain kefir. Raw full-fat milk soothes tissues best.

About 50% of the human race needs starches to prevent aging. Those people need starches to bind with toxins (including excess hormones) that stress the body. We may obtain that starch by eating a Nut Formula (page 194) once or twice each week. Some people may need to eat a little cooked starch if they cannot digest the Nut Formula. That may be determined by eating the Nut Formula when you are extra-stressed. If you become more self-controlled within 12 hours after eating the Nut Formula, you do not need to eat any cooked starch.

Aging men and women could create and maintain youth by eating meat twice daily, about 1 pound daily. Men do better when they drink 1 cup raw plain kefir, if available, as often as possible with meat.
 
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Twohandsondeck
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13th degree of enlightenment
lol

Our feces is toxic, but Aajonus does tell stories about wild buffalo dung being used by tribal people.

The restoration of colonic bacteria can be done through the following:

-eating high meat
-eating green clay fermented in mineral water for 4 days minimum with raw milk
-eating wild animal feces (even small bits, like would be found on a chicken egg)
-using a retention enema of raw fat such as raw milk, raw butter, etc. (I think coconut works too but not certain)
 
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Twohandsondeck
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This is a wealth of information, thank you for sharing. I'm not really interested in the whole of his diet, but these bits and pieces of various subjects are great.
Nice man, thanks. I'll tack on another volume of the original post as soon as I get through highlighting the remainder of the Q&A sessions I've found from him.
 

Robert5493

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lol

Our feces is toxic, but Aajonus does tell stories about wild buffalo dung being used by tribal people.

The restoration of colonic bacteria can be done through the following:

-eating high meat
-eating green clay fermented in mineral water for 4 days minimum with raw milk
-eating wild animal feces (even small bits, like would be found on a chicken egg)
-using a retention enema of raw fat such as raw milk, raw butter, etc. (I think coconut works too but not certain)
I read in the preliminary ethnological report by Stefansson and Anderson on their Arctic expedition, they describe people eating cervid pellets, adding them to soups and eating contents of alimentary canals.



Screen Shot 2022-05-05 at 11.14.42 AM.png
 
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Twohandsondeck
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I read in the preliminary ethnological report by Stefansson and Anderson on their Arctic expedition, they describe people eating cervid pellets, adding them to soups and eating contents of alimentary canals.



View attachment 36381
Very cool share. I'm sure there's something to it.

Probably the most remarkable thing I've heard Aajonus cite was the research of Howell on rats. It was very similar to Pottenger's work on cats. He was trying to prove that feeding rats cooked and processed food would shorten their life by 1/3rd, going from 3 years to 2 years.

He had the two study groups like Pottenger, one raw and one cooked... But in the first three year study, both groups lived to be 3 years old. Before running the experiment again, he realized that the cooked group was eating their own feces (I presume the raw group was as well).

So Howell put a wire mesh down for the second time around to prevent the rats from eating their own feces and sure enough the cooked group lived 2 years and the raw group lived 3 years.

To extrapolate that to humans, it might make the difference in 30 of 40 years of life for us.
 
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GreekDemiGod

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Only thing I can point to are the dozens of public testimonies of people eating raw meat for 10+ years with no problem. Aajonus himself had been doing it for 25-35 years at the time of most of his recorded messages.
Do you still get some benefits if you eat raw eggs, milk, butter cheese, but not raw meat?
I understand that beef is the safest, in contrast with chicken or pork.
 
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Twohandsondeck
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Do you still get some benefits if you eat raw eggs, milk, butter cheese, but not raw meat?
I understand that beef is the safest, in contrast with chicken or pork.
Certainly. The muscle meat is directly useful for putting on muscle, but it doesn't stop the same steady benefits of the diet that I've been witnessing. If anything, I surmise that it is like a steroid factor for the recovery of all tissue.

For the better part of the last week I've been basically having everything except for meat to experiment for this exact cause. Calories mostly come from milk, butter, eggs, cheese, honey, coconut oil, fruit, and vegetable juice in that order. Still very doable, I'd advocate it highly. In my opinion, the eggs mimic the anabolic effects of meat quite well when they're consumed in higher amounts, like 8+ per day.

Here's an applicable note:

+An audience member states that they've only been living off of raw milk, raw honey, and raw eggs for over a year. They ask if they're headed for a deficiency. Aajonus replies by saying that he has 12 elderly people in his patient pool who do the same thing, but they don't have much muscle mass. The meat is the key factor in reproducing cells quickly. Aajonus speculates that if the milk were consumed straight out of the teat without a temperature drop below 73 degrees that the growth factors in the milk would be preserved and - in that case - there would be little if any need for meat to produce optimal cell regeneration.
 

TheSir

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Calories mostly come from milk, butter, eggs, cheese, honey, coconut oil, fruit, and vegetable juice in that order.
Are all your dairy products unpasteurized? I've been wondering how much the gentle and quick modern pasteurization methods really affect the nutritional quality of the end product. Raw dairy is illegal to sell where I live.

Are you doing the baths by the way?
 
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Twohandsondeck
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Are all your dairy products unpasteurized? I've been wondering how much the gentle and quick modern pasteurization methods really affect the nutritional quality of the end product. Raw dairy is illegal to sell where I live.
Shame. Canadian?

At this point I make a concerted effort to avoid pasteurized dairy because of the radical difference in digestion between the two. Where I live I'm able to order raw & unsalted butter and raw & unsalted cheese from another state... and I can get raw milk locally. While I was waiting on the raw butter in the mail, I was trying to consume large quantities of salted & pasteurized butter under the optimistic guise of 'some butter is better than no butter' - which probably is the case, but I kept running into that nausea like I wanted to throw up after just a couple tablespoons.

After doing the same thing with raw butter, I can hit 4 tablespoons under the same capacity and just feel quite full, but not like I'm thinking about throwing up. It's a big difference. The raw & unsalted cheese is also excellent on digestion and suitable to eat in larger quantities. Raw milk gives little issue and is also noticeably better than the pasteurized stuff.

According to Aajonus, when any raw food is heated above 110 degrees Fahrenheit, it blows up the fat molecules to large sizes, destroys enzymes, and cauterizes the vitamins and minerals, making them 50% less effective to the human body in scientific analysis, if not 100% less effective because of their contribution towards a forced handling of the body to deal with all of these chemical anomalies. A traditional pasteurization of milk is about 140 degrees Fahrenheit up to the ultra pasteurization being over 200 degrees for a few seconds.

All I can really add is that now having been on both sides of the fence, I am vehemently against the pasteurization of dairy because of my own n of 1 experience. I'm always looking to chalk something up to placebo, but this simply cannot be so.

In a defense of pasteurization, Kyle addresses it through the lens of scientific research for a portion of this chat with Leo which is centered around this very topic (IIRC he cites that only B2 is a cause for concern in pasteurized milk):


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TOabQLCmW8


And then he has this chat with John which spends a lot of time discussing their endeavors and opinions regarding Vonderplanitz after each following his teachings for years of their lives:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOirJQWowNo
 

TheSir

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Shame. Canadian?
Finland, the governance of which more or less parallels the Canadian nanny-stateism.
I was trying to consume large quantities of salted & pasteurized butter under the optimistic guise of 'some butter is better than no butter' - which probably is the case, but I kept running into that nausea like I wanted to throw up after just a couple tablespoons.

After doing the same thing with raw butter, I can hit 4 tablespoons under the same capacity and just feel quite full, but not like I'm thinking about throwing up. It's a big difference.
It's interesting that the difference is so great... and also a little disheartening. Though I haven't noticed such nausea from pasteurized butter, it's not like I have been eating tablespoons of it at once either. Since I don't have any choice, I think I will nevertheless keep consuming organic pasteurized dairy in accordance with my cravings, as doing so seems to satisfy at least some kind of a metabolic need. Still, as you say, it's a shame.
 
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Twohandsondeck
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Since I don't have any choice, I think I will nevertheless keep consuming organic pasteurized dairy in accordance with my cravings, as doing so seems to satisfy at least some kind of a metabolic need.
The stuff is still a superfood. As long as it's not bringing you down, I'm sure it's a benefactor.
 

imei3489

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aajonous is the one who scared me away from vegetable oils to begin with, i remember reading a piece by him where he claimed that vegetable oils cause blood clots.
i tried it for a bit, way to low is carbs for my liking.
i have been in many comunities that worship aajonous, because i find them so entertaining and crazy.
his biggest fault imo is that he is just too extreme, to black and white, but thats what you need to be a proper cult leader, because thats exactly what it is, a cult. the memebers of his cult are the most extreme, and the most brainwashed out of any dieting comunity i have ever come across.
i think aajonous needs to be praised for all the work he did to legalize raw milk, he really did so much for us.
i dont think ive ever seen a single person on the diet who wasnt really sick and frail, and no matter what happens to them, its just "detoxing". these people will die before they venture off the diet. i remeber writing a kind of blog on my experience with the diet and how i improved after quitting it, and i dont think ive ever faced so much hostility.
still, there is so much that is really interesting about him and his ideas, and once youve tried the diet you never really forget it, there truly is something special about it. aajonous claims in one of his books, that when you start his diet, you will go up in weight without adding size. that was true for me. i was 7kg heavier than i looked. i gained no size, my pants still fit the same, but i went up 7kg. wild stuff.
both diets are fairly low in pufa, which is why many gravitate to a peaty diet when raw primal eventually fails.
also, theres that ibrahim guy. he is hilarious. aajonous also had beef with durianrider, which is the funniest thing ever. i really wonder if he was actually killed. ive asked people who knew him and ive neevr gotten a straight answer. i almost got the feeling that he is alive, and they knew, but avoiding the question.
 

Gânico

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i really wonder if he was actually killed. ive asked people who knew him and ive neevr gotten a straight answer. i almost got the feeling that he is alive, and they knew, but avoiding the question.
Yep, he is still alive
 
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Twohandsondeck
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aajonous is the one who scared me away from vegetable oils to begin with, i remember reading a piece by him where he claimed that vegetable oils cause blood clots.
i tried it for a bit, way to low is carbs for my liking.
i have been in many comunities that worship aajonous, because i find them so entertaining and crazy.
his biggest fault imo is that he is just too extreme, to black and white, but thats what you need to be a proper cult leader, because thats exactly what it is, a cult. the memebers of his cult are the most extreme, and the most brainwashed out of any dieting comunity i have ever come across.
i think aajonous needs to be praised for all the work he did to legalize raw milk, he really did so much for us.
i dont think ive ever seen a single person on the diet who wasnt really sick and frail, and no matter what happens to them, its just "detoxing". these people will die before they venture off the diet. i remeber writing a kind of blog on my experience with the diet and how i improved after quitting it, and i dont think ive ever faced so much hostility.
still, there is so much that is really interesting about him and his ideas, and once youve tried the diet you never really forget it, there truly is something special about it. aajonous claims in one of his books, that when you start his diet, you will go up in weight without adding size. that was true for me. i was 7kg heavier than i looked. i gained no size, my pants still fit the same, but i went up 7kg. wild stuff.
both diets are fairly low in pufa, which is why many gravitate to a peaty diet when raw primal eventually fails.
also, theres that ibrahim guy. he is hilarious. aajonous also had beef with durianrider, which is the funniest thing ever. i really wonder if he was actually killed. ive asked people who knew him and ive neevr gotten a straight answer. i almost got the feeling that he is alive, and they knew, but avoiding the question.

Yep, he is still alive
I agree with this optimism.

Related article:


The video being discussed:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP-1ehLG9PA


Only thing that makes me cringe is when the guy behind the camera is like, 'If only he were still alive!' and the people being interviewed can't disclose that information directly in one way or the other.
 

FoodForeal

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We know that parasites can be present in feces, same as muscle tissue and some if not all organs. Does cooking provide enough anti-parasite pressure that it would allow humans who cook meat before eating to survive better than those who do not cook meat? It seems that this is the case because of how old and widespread fire and roasting/cooking meat is. I won't say that I am completely sure cooking meat is the right thing to do for health based on that, but it must be explained satisfactorily why cooking meat has been tradition for so long.

Beef is relatively safe from parasites because it has been selectively bred for thousands of years to be innately antiparasitic so it may be the safest of all raw meats. I wouldn't eat any other meat raw. I still haven't tried raw meat, although I have tried quite rare beef steak.
 
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