KMUD Herb Doctors: Inflammation (Jan 2011)

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  1. moss

    moss Member

    Sep 1, 2013
    Transcribed by moss Dec 14
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    KMUD Herb Doctors: Inflammation (Jan 2011)
    HD - Andrew Murray & Sarah Johannesen Murray
    RP - Dr Ray Peat PH.D
    RE - Radio Engineer

    HD: Good evening, Dr Peat and thank you so much for joining us this evening and Happy New Year.

    RP: Oh, yeah.

    HD: Thanks so much for joining us. As always, for folks who’ve not listened to our show before, let alone perhaps heard you on the show, will you perhaps go over your academic and professional career?

    RP: I was a student and teacher in the humanities for about 10 or 15 years before I studied in graduate school, biology, basically nerve biology and reproductive biology and I taught a few courses in biochemistry and immunology and other things.

    HD: OK. I know that you’ve extensively written papers, fully referenced papers on many different topics ­‐ and I know that a lot of the programs that you’ve joined us on have really been a broad range of separate subjects but interrelated in many different ways, and I know the topic for tonight’s discussion is the role of inflammation on the human body, what inflammation does and how is it generated, how you can do something about it? But perhaps people that are listening -­ would you just briefly discuss what you think we all understand when we hear the word ‘inflammation’ and then we’ll go over the broad view of inflammation in a newer thinking. It’s actually, the thinking, is fairly old, but it’s been brought up by contemporary doctors, so what do you think people first understand when they hear inflammation? How do we understand it?

    RP: About 50 years ago or so when I was in school they were teaching that inflammation is part of the curative healing process so we needed to kill germs and heal. But in the last 10 or 20 years, the change has been seeing it occurring in all of the degenerative diseases -­ Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, Heart Disease, Arthritis and so on. So it’s pretty abrupt in the 20th century that there was this sudden change to seeing inflammation as at least not all good, maybe all bad.

    HD: OK. Do you know that -­ from reading a little about Plato and Aristotelian views of medicine -­ I know from an inflammatory point of view they definitely had a different metaphor for understanding it. Given that the doctor Ilya Mechnikov and later on – Raymond – you can describe -­ Jamie Conway. With the view of inflammation that both Mechnikov and the later doctor have brought around -­ would you describe the difference between it and how fundamentally it makes such a big difference to the way we should understand what it is that causes it and how to help ourselves?

    RP: Mechnikov had worked primarily as an embryologist, understanding the organization of developing primitive organisms and more complex -­ and when he saw the phagocyte process - when he put a splinter in an organism and saw cells gathering around it -­ he interpreted that in the context of what he knew best which was how the organisms create and maintain their body structure. And it was partly the fact that the Nobel Prize went simultaneously to him with that very biological view of immunity and to Ehrlich who was working with chemical poisons and the idea of immunity as killing bad organisms took over and throughout the United States and most of the world for most of the 20th century and that, as Americans started studying the white blood cells and the thymus gland and things that we think as part of the immune system, they were influenced by the drug industry -­ Ehrlich working for the bullets to kill the evil organisms, that passed over to thinking about antibodies and cells as aimed primarily at organisms that are trying to take over.

    HD: That reminds me of how you’ve described the progression of Hepatitis C being that, well we’re told that it’s this nasty bug, but maybe it’s just the body trying to rearrange something and there’s an inflammation and a process that’s going on that is from damage.

    RP: Yeah. The retroviruses in general -­ we’ve got lots of them and they seem to be as much part of us as anything and they don't do anything that for sure is harmful -­ and if you mess up an organ like poison the liver, you get a bunch of these retroviruses which -­ why they call them retro is that normally DNA makes RNA and RNA makes protein -­ but there are enzymes which will turn RNA into DNA. And that was first observed in 1979, but at that time Trochim and Lamarck, they had been totally weeded out in the late 1940s with the Cold War; all of Lamarck’s followers were fired from all of the teaching positions in the US and so when in 1979, when the idea that information could go from RNA to DNA was demonstrated, my professors unanimously said “it’s impossible", that's Lamarckian and not permitted (laughs).

    HD: Just so that people listening understand, the DNA, is the thing in our cells that codes for the manufacture of proteins and many, many things that are necessary. The RNA is the messenger, the transcription factor for producing the DNA. If the retroviruses then can actually manufacture DNA, that DNA then can get into our mitochondria and/or affect a change in its own right because it’s DNA.

    RP: And some of the people inclined in the direction of Lamarck -­ Barbara McClintock and Lysenko -­ they had proposed that you can get genetic change. Eventually Barbara McClintock got the Nobel Prize for it but about 40 years too late, demonstrating that they believed that information can pull from the environment into the DNA and some of these people were actually saying that there should be enzymes such as are seen in retroviruses, enzymes that can create new DNA in response to environmental experience.

    HD: And that reminds me about that test, I think you said it was in Egypt, Dr Peat?

    HD: Oh yeah. There was in many countries there was a schistosomiasis epidemic. It was pretty chronic and a very high percentage of Egyptians had it and they were treated for that with some chemicals that injured their
    liver and now they say that it was caused by spreading a virus, but other experiments suggest that just the chemical treatment that was aimed at killing this parasite could have been enough to cause the livers to express retroviruses -­‐ one of which is now called Hepatitis C.

    HD: So it’s looking at the disease as a damaged particle rather than an infectious organism.

    RP: Yeah. I think this is what Peter Duesberg is suggesting when he says that the retroviruses - HIV, for example -­ isn’t known to be cause of immunodeficiency, that he suggests that it's the result of chemical poisoning.

    HD: I remember reading about five years ago an article from Dr Stefan Lanka who was also putting down the HIV hypothesis, or the viral hypotheses for HIV. OK -­ so back to inflammation -­ in terms of the inflammatory process then and how we or I understood it from school and from university, studying physiology, how does the newer view or the older view explaining the newer way describe inflammation and how does it differ?

    RP: Well, if you look at injury of the foetus, it heals without inflammation and it doesn’t produce a scar and basically it’s perfect healing. At a very early stage, you can split the embryo and each part of the embryo will grow into a complete animal -­ but later in development you can cut or otherwise injure a part of the foetus and it simply zips itself shut and makes new cells and doesn’t leave a scar or inflammation and it’s after being born that inflammation as we know it occurs.

    HD: And we can all crawl back into our mother’s womb (laughs).

    RP: Yeah – and there are two things that happen when we are born. One is our CO2 exposure goes way down and the oxygen availability increases greatly, so a shift away from CO2, which is anti-­‐inflammatory, and at the same time when we are no longer protected by the uterus and placenta which act as a filter and they let very little polyunsaturated fats (PUFAs) in, so practically all newborns are considered deficient in the essential fatty acids, so called, but these begin building up during childhood from practically any diet that we’re exposed to and that, combined with the reduced availability of carbon dioxide you can account for basically all of the features of inflammation and degeneration that are distinct from the prenatal healing process. We don’t have some of the features of prenatal healing but, and they can be recovered to some extent, for example, if you pack a wound with sugar it practically heals without a scar and that’s partly because it’s not exactly approaching prenatal conditions but it’s giving an extremely generous supply of sugar which can be used to make CO2.

    HD: And this is behind the Greeks using honey in deep wounds?

    RP: And the sugar makes it unnecessary for the cells to metabolize any of the fatty acids so that even if the organism has been eating them and integrating them into the tissues, the presence of sugar makes it possible to energize and repair cells without going down more of these unsaturated fats which produce all of the features that we know of as inflammation, as distinct from healing.

    HD: Just to summarise for some of our listeners, in case you haven’t heard of polyunsaturated fats, these are liquid vegetable oils that are present in almost everybody’s diets and you can avoid them to some extent by avoiding any liquid vegetable oil apart from olive oil and eating coconut oil and butter in place. OK -­ for those listeners who’ve just joined you are listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor KMUD, Garberville 91.1 FM and from 7.30 until the end of the show at 8 o’clock you are invited to call in with any questions either related or unrelated to this month’s topic of Inflammation. The number here if you live in the area is 9233911 or if you live outside the area the toll free number is 1800 KMUD RAD. OK -­ so those two things then -­ the decreasing CO2 and the increase in PUFAs -­ if people started to increase their CO2 content -­ I know we’ve mentioned in the past bag breathing as a very simple way to do that and/or living at elevation if that’s possible, higher elevation and cutting out PUFAs -­ what else could be done in a person to lessen their chance of the inflammation that may otherwise be generated?

    RP: Another of the very basics things promoting inflammation rather than
    healing is the endotoxin that's from bacteria that can be absorbed into the bloodstream and if your liver is well-­nourished and well-­energized it can cut out practically 100% of the endotoxins -­ but if the intestine is stressed in any way which can be, nervous stress increasing the adrenalin that cuts down the blood supply, of the reduced blood supply does things like releases histamine and serotonin which makes the intestine more permeable letting more of the endotoxin get into the bloodstream and the endotoxin does the same thing throughout the body. It increases the permeability, lowers the energy and increases the inefficiency that shows up as inflammation in various things such as swelling, turning red, local heating, because of the high blood supply.

    HD: OK -­ so basically stress is a big killer along with other things that promote inflammation. I know -­ for our listeners, I have just been thinking while Dr Peat has been talking about stress. There’s lots of herbs that can help to de-stress you. I know thyroid is also something that can help your body work better and not run on so much adrenalin and stress hormones -­ and a lot of people who get extremely stressed are often running on adrenalin to keep their metabolism up rather than running on an adequate amount of thyroid. So, Dr Peat, do you have anything else to add to how we can help minimise stress?

    RP: Keeping the intestine as clean as possible, moving stuff along, raw carrots or bamboo shoots happen to be antiseptic vegetable material that doesn’t feed the bacteria and tends to suppress the bacterial growth so that it doesn’t come too far up the intestine and they also bind the endotoxin and other chemicals that should be eliminated. If the intestine is sluggish, what the liver has excreted into the bile, trying to get rid of, will be reabsorbed farther down the Intestine and come back to poison the liver. And if you keep a stream of good clean material moving through, you can lower the toxins that should be excreted and that would include unwanted hormones including oestrogen which the liver should be able to 100% eliminate as they reach the liver and it will reduce the endotoxin and shift the serotonin and histamine such that it will also lower the cortisol production and that total pattern will increase the good hormones -­ progesterone and testosterone, for example.

    HD: And for those who might like a nice recipe, Dr Peat suggested that if you add apple cider vinegar or lemon or lime juice to raw grated carrots with some salt and coconut oil or olive oil -­ that it’s even more anti-­ microbial, anti-­viral, anti-­bacterial as well as anti‐fungal with the apple cider vinegar.

    HD: Dr Peat, what do you think about using anti-­inflammatories as another means to lower inflammation in addition to what we’ve talked about briefly for our foods and avoiding foods?

    RP: Some of them are very helpful. I mentioned that cleaning the intestine will lower the production of cortisol and raise the pregnenolone, testosterone and progesterone. These are natural and most powerful anti-­‐ inflammatories things to stabilise. The foetus is exposed to an extremely high concentration of progesterone until it’s born and so keeping our production of progesterone as high as possible can make a big difference in susceptibility to inflammation and degeneration. But aspirin and related things, a lot of fruit chemicals are similar to aspirin and have a protective effect.

    HD: What particular fruit chemicals?

    RP: I am specifically thinking of naringenin in oranges.

    HD: OK -­ is that in grapefruit as well?

    HD: There’s another one in grapefruit that happens to poison an enzyme system in the liver letting oestrogen accumulate tremendously.

    HD: And this is such a well known medical fact that in [a certain] maternity ward they say that we no longer serve grapefruit juice to our pregnant mothers because it interferes with the hormones and it’s specified that it blocks the P450 enzyme that helps the liver excrete excessively high or all of the excess oestrogen.

    HD: OK – so naringenin and then is there anything else that you can think of?

    RP: No

    HD: Have you heard or have they done in the past -­ I can’t imagine that they haven’t -­ but animal experiments modeling after keeping CO2 concentration high -­ keeping all the inflammatory products that would normally be associated with an animal’s diet or their environment out -­ and measuring different things to see how they performed or how longer they lived.

    RP: Oh yeah -­ about 70 years ago, people were noticing that food restriction could increase life span 30-­40% -­ then it has gone through phases in which they saw that this could happen in even adult animals, [they] could live longer and healthier by reducing the food intake. But then they started trying different specific foods and it happens that the foods which are eliminated are those which produce inflammation in various ways, for example the PUFAs and the amino acids that contribute to inflammation such as tryptophan and methionine -­ just even eliminating one of these will increase longevity about 30 or 40% in animal studies.

    HD: OK. Wow, that’s a lot – 30 to 40%. So those Indians that live to 120 years of age in the Himalayas, I mean the Andes sorry, excuse me, are they just not eating any PUFAs oils?

    RP: Well, at high altitudes, all of these long‐lived cultures in South America and the Caucuses and Nepal, they all lived at fairly high altitudes, and were surrounded by glaciers in most of the cases, so that their drinking water that was fairly recently high altitude snow which happens to be isotopically different from sea level water. It’s been refined by a repeated distillation as rain clouds going to higher and higher altitudes, it becomes metabolically stimulating light water whereas average water contains some of the metabolic flowing heavy water. But at the same time the atmosphere at high altitudes is very low in oxygen and so people retain more CO2 in their tissues. That’s another resemblance of the prenatal condition and generally they are sheep farmers. Sheep can live at relatively high altitudes, and so they tend to either eat vegetables, fruits or cheese, lots of cheese and milk related dishes.

    HD: Wow. That’s very interesting. The thing about the rainwater that’s pretty interesting. I know from an alchemical perspective the first prerequisite is to distil water 7 times to be used in experiments because the alchemist always believe that each successive distillation raises the energy of the water and I read an article about, they also use stormwater, water that was only collected during electrical storms. But I did read an article about water because many, many years ago, I didn’t think there was any difference between regular water and tap water or whatever it was all water and all H20. But it’s actually very different and there’s a lot of papers have been written on the subject of water and how different energetically they are and how different they make and what a difference they make in the body and how available the water is to the body and to the cell.

    RP: In the 1930s when they first made isotopically heavy water with deuterium replacing hydrogen, they found that it slowed biological processes -­ daily rhythm, nerve conduction -­ and in 1950 they showed in mouse experiments that it tremendously accelerated the aging process and all of the features of aging, slowing metabolism and dying prematurely were produced but it took about 50 years after that before people started experimenting with the light water from which the heavy water has been removed and they found that -­ for example, they were experimenting with it in Russian space vehicles and they found the condensed sweat had been filtered and it was a very light water resembling glacier water.

    HD: So what water do you recommend people drink Dr Peat? Do you have one?

    RP: No actually. You have to go to or be near a glacier.

    HD: Ok, so you have to go 15,000 feet right? (Laughs) Probably this is why
    they bottle glacier water right, yeah if it really is that?

    RP: Yeah -­‐ but It happens that some plants will absorb the waters at high altitude and concentrate it even more, sugar beets for example, intrinsically eliminate deuterons and so they have light hydrogen incorporated into their tissues and if they grow in Colorado, at a high altitude where they’re
    getting already refined water then the beet sugar contains the equivalent of glacier water.

    HD: Cool. I wonder at what altitude beets stop growing at though? It’s not that cold hardy, is it?

    RP: Yeah, they are fairly cold hardy, but I don’t know the altitude.

    HD: OK. Well you are listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor, from now until the end of the show, you are invited to call in with any questions either related or unrelated to this month’s topic of inflammation and our guest speaker is Dr Raymond Peat. OK -­ and so until people start calling in, the cell communication thing is quite interesting to me in terms of I think when people, or when we were taught physiology, we were taught about phagocytic activity engulfing the cells and the cells’ drinking activities. And I understand that these descriptions are not that accurate, the language with which it’s been described is pretty erroneous if you like, to use a better word. What do you think about in the context of what you understand cell communication, cell-­‐to-­‐cell communication?

    RP: I think it works on many different levels. But I think the important one has been sketched out starting with people like Albert Szent-­Györgyi who demonstrated that cells, muscles systems and secretory systems and such are tuned electronically to the properties of the molecule that -­ they talk about them as quantum chemical features but it’s just the way the electrons resonate in the particular molecules and that’s because the whole cell is tuned to resonate to certain substances. There’s a recent lecture, I think his name is Lucca Turin, a Google lecture on pharmacology but it is showing the current vitality of that idea of Albert Szent-­Györgyi which -­ another person, Mae-­Won Ho, has a website talking about the coherence of an organism and her website has a picture of a worm made through a polarising microscope showing that there is coherence on the atomic level all the way through the little worm and I think that kind of coherence, electronic or chemical, and electrical interaction is at the basis of such things as cell recognition. There are the lock and key processes, enzymes, substrate and antibody, antigen recognition but the important things for communicating between cells I think are a whole step beyond the lock and

    HD: OK, before we go any further with that I know there are a couple of callers on the line at least there is one on the line for sure. Caller you are on the air.

    Caller: Hi

    HD: Hi, Good evening.

    Caller: I have two questions one is if you and Sarah could give a phone number to contact you and my other question is for Dr Peat. I have been doing the carrot thing and this is very interesting to me and I am just fascinated with it -­ but I have an unrelated question and that is I have been getting off of Prozac that I took for many years and I ‘m having of what they call discontinuation syndrome which I would call drug withdrawal – but, you know, like agitation and sweating and so on and I was wondering are there herbs that one can take to help alleviate that discomfort while it’s going on?

    HD: Yes there are herbs that you can take to help alleviate the discomfort of withdrawing from Prozac (laughs).

    Caller: I was doing it partly because I am worried about the influence of the serotonin uptake inhibitors on my bone structure.

    HD: Right, I remember you called before.

    Caller: Right, right, so I am well into it and I’m surviving but....

    HD: Well done (laughs). Dr Peat, do you have any recommendation?

    RP: Ah yeah, the good effect of those serotonin uptake inhibitors, I think it’s really other things, not at all serotonin. I think it’s in spite of the serotonin (laughs). If you look at the history of serotonin you see that in the 1950s it was discovered to be what makes the carcinoid syndrome, the carcinoid tumour so bad, and the tumour itself instead of turning almost all of our dietary tryptophan into niacin, these tumours turn the bulk of it, more than half of it, into serotonin and so they flood us. They are worse than Prozac and the features well defined for this massive overdosing of serotonin are a good insight into what’s going on into the drug industry. The people flushed, became depressed, anxious and aggressive (laughs) under the influence of serotonin and developed arthritic pains, a whole range of inflammatory degenerative symptoms. The skin would eventually thicken, heart valves would become fibrotic and these are things that are now being seen associated with the uptake inhibitors -­ osteoporosis, heart disease, breast cancer, and obesity.

    HD: And here’s serotonin the supposed good guy and just another mediator of inflammatory responses.
    Caller: I don’t think it’s that good, because getting off it is really awful (laughs). It must have been doing something besides making me feel a little better.

    RP: There are good ways to get off -­ I think pregnenolone, thyroid and coffee are very helpful.

    Caller: Coffee?

    RP: Ah yeah, you have to adjust to the coffee but it goes with thyroid, sugar, progesterone and so on as part of an anti-­inflammatory system and when we were talking about the anti-­inflammatory substances, I should have mentioned caffeine as one of them.

    HD: And also too with caffeine, if you are already running on a lot of adrenalin and you get very low blood sugar and if you drink caffeine that can worsen the symptoms -­ but if you re-­stock your liver’s glycogen stores through eating sugars that are lower glycemic index but more importantly non-­starchy sugars, then your body will not respond to the adrenalin like it would if you were very low blood sugar -­ so that's a process of adapting.

    Caller: Great, now could you give me a contact number for you and Andrew?

    HD: Yes, are you within the 707 areas?

    Caller: Yes, I am. I am in Leytonville so I am not that far.

    HD: OK, so its 9869506 and ext. 2 to ask questions, ext. 3 to set up a consultation.
    Caller: Oh OK, and you’re in Garberville, right? HD: Yes, our clinic is located in Garberville.

    Caller: OK, I just couldn’t find you in the phone book so I thought this month I am going to get your phone number. Thank you so much, and thank you Dr Peat. I am reading things on your website. It’s so informative. Thank you.

    HD: Thank you for your call. OK, is there another caller?

    RE: Ah, well -­ someone had a question about Arnica and how it works and
    how to use it.

    HD: Arnica is a very anti-‐inflammatory flower and you really need to have a oil made from Arnica. You’d want to make a macerated oil and this is how we make it and then we don’t actually sell it to stores for retail unless we do a herbal tincture.

    RE: Does it grow around here?

    HD: No, it grows at high elevation and I imagine it grows in Montana. Arnica montana is the Latin name but it doesn't grow around here. I don’t know if you could get it to grow around here because it’s such a high elevation plant. Yeah – In the strict sense of the word Montana is mountain (laughs). I thought it did grow in the US? Well, yeah maybe up in Montana there are lots of mountains up there. I thought it did grow in the mountainous United States. Anyway, we can check on that and see if I am right or wrong here on the Montana but you want to make a heat maceration in order to extract anti-­inflammatory compounds and you don't want to take it internally. I definitely don't recommend you take it internally but it can really help to alleviate bruises and tendon sprains, and tears just by rubbing the oil on the affected area immediately after the injury. It works really, really well. I’ve seen lots of evidence for it myself. For myself, it’s one of those “How does it do that?” “How does it stop inflammation”? Maybe Dr Peat understands the physiological effects of Arnica? I don’t know.

    RP: No.

    HD: OK, so no more callers. Dr Peat I wanted to ask you about the cells’ communication from one cell to another. You were talking how they can communicate to each other and I think there is also a study that you mentioned to me about cells communicating even through, like, a piece of plastic?

    RP: Yeah. That was the Gurviches, in the 1920s and 30s, [they] were demonstrating that if you used quartz that passes certain frequencies of ultraviolet they demonstrated that cells could stimulate cell division across the thin sheet of quartz and that is being taken up again in the last 10 years -­ more people demonstrating coherence. There are variations on that -­ one person is arguing and demonstrating that cells sense and respond to infrared frequencies but most of the work is in the ultraviolet frequency of communication.

    HD: OK. You mentioned Mae-­‐Wan Ho and the other person is Albert Szent-­ Györgyi. OK -­ so the main thing in our bodies is that everything communicates properly. It’s when things don’t communicate properly that the problems occur. So in terms of, I know you have mentioned before from an energetic point of view, the use of thyroid hormone or improving your diet to improve your own hormone thyroid function -­‐ that communication is benefited by a higher energy and that's the function of thyroid.

    RP: Yeah, the CO2 is one of the sort of a hormone of metabolism. It acts like a universal hormone keeping everything in the optimal condition. For example, it holds histamine and serotonin in a bound position, holds calcium in a bound position, so if you just hyperventilate and lower your CO2, within a minute your platelets for example which carry most of the serotonin in your blood in a harmless state, just a minute of hyperventilation will cause the platelets to release the serotonin and immediately cause capillaries to become permeable leaking fluid out into your lungs so you can create pulmonary oedema with a minute of hyperventilation just because you’ve messed up the CO2 concentration.

    HD: OK – wow, pretty dangerous. OK, back to retroviruses a little bit and this again is something I have not been familiar with at all, I think the way that we are indoctrinated with the way things are supposed to be is that – all these little things, these viruses exist and they are all different and cause different problems. Are you saying that ultimately we co­‐exist with a wide range of retroviruses, none of which normally give us any problems until some other insult ...

    RP: Yeah, I think Doesburg said we all contain hundreds of them and we do when there is an injury to the tissue we do form antibodies and some people will say that’s evidence that there an alien thing -­but many years ago someone did an experiment I think it was rabbit cartilage. They removed a piece of cartilage and [then] they would replace the un-­tampered cartilage in one group of rabbits and it didn't produce any reactions -­but if they twisted the cartilage, just enough to damage the structure just as you would if you go and twisted your knee or something, and when they put that one back in the same rabbit, the rabbit produced anti-­‐bodies to it like it was an alien thing. But what that means about anti-­‐ bodies in the case our antibodies to retroviruses or whatever is that there part of a clean up process. Something is disturbed. The antibodies are part of preparing the situation for our phagocytes to go in and remove the damaged material.

    HD: OK. So we are looking at the immune system -­‐ instead of this killer attack system that just kills and attacks all these different bugs, perhaps it’s just a rearranging and a house cleaner and it just goes in there and cleans and mops up the little bit of damage here from the milk that spilt on the floor.

    RP: Yeah, just fairly recently someone showed that in a traumatic brain injury, the presence of antibodies to the injured tissue corresponds to the healing. The absence of the antibodies lets the tissue deteriorate, so it’s pretty well established that it’s a clean up process. And in the thyroid, people think about autoimmune antibodies as causing the problem but just an excess of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) because something is blocking the function, the pituitary increases its drive against the thyroid gland and that overstimulation causes something like inflammation and the body is cleaning up the damaged or stressed thyroid cells when it produces antibodies and so if you keep the TSH low enough, the clean up will proceed and the antibodies will disappear.

    RP: Wow, it is very different to current thinking and what we were all told is the way it is so that I guess drug companies can sell their drugs. Probably, I don't mean to be cynical, but probably there’s some truth in it for sure. OK -­ so for those of you who are listening, you’re listening to Ask Your Herb Doctor on KMUD Garberville 91.1 FM and from now until the end of the show at 8 o’clock – the next at least 7 minutes -­ people are invited to call in with any questions. We do have Dr Raymond Peat here. He is a very well published scientist and researcher and we are very pleased to have him on the show. We have been talking about inflammation and the role of inflammation and all the things that can cause inflammation and how to help yourself. Getting back to, in case we don't get any callers -­ lookout, we have a caller I think, you are on the air? Hello.

    Caller: Hi.

    HD: Hi, you are on the air

    Caller: Thanks, I’m sorry I tuned about mid-­way through. I’m not sure you have covered this but I am interested in your thoughts on eczema and relationship to leaky gut and digestive stuff.

    HD: OK. Dr Peat, what’s your view on eczema?

    RP: Say it again, I didn't hear.

    Caller: The lady was asking about eczema in relation to leaky gut and/or.

    RP: Oh well -­ Coeliac disease is one of the causes of both skin disease and Arthritis. Coeliac disease, among other things, will allow endotoxin into your circulation and low thyroid is probably the most common thing associated with just ordinary eczema and that's because when your thyroid is low the circulation to your intestine is poor, the serotonin is high. The combination of endotoxin and the serotonin for example will cause the skin to have abnormal growth patterns.

    Caller: Would psoriasis then be in the same category? RP: I think so.

    Caller: That's so interesting.

    HD: And that’s why when people who have eczema and psoriasis take liver herbs like dandelion and burdock that they notice an improvement. It’s generally not enough to cure them but they do notice an improvement. The curative effect has to be more of a combination of looking at the whole system like the thyroid and the diet and how that influences an overall inflammation but working on the digestive tract definitely makes a big difference with Eczema and Psoriasis.

    Caller: Thank you and can I ask one more question related to Coeliac disease?

    HD: Sure.

    Caller: Do you think the test that tests you for gluten allergies are good,

    HD: Dr Peat, did you hear that question?

    RP: Well, they can very clearly demonstrate the enzymes involved in it. But I think gluten is toxic in itself to anyone. It is just that some people are more resistant to it. It has an overlap with the transglutamanase enzymes -­ which there’s a lot of it in the skin and in the intestines -­ and it happens to be an enzyme that’s activated by oestrogen and I think that's why women have more of a problem with it. But it isn’t some particular disease – it is that gluten is just absolutely not intended as a food. The seeds create the protein gluten as a storage form, but also as a byproduct it discourages animals from eating it because it contains these amino acids that contribute to inflammation. So the seed intends to cause inflammation in the intestines and a very tough person can withstand it for a long time, but it’s not a good idea for anyone to eat it.

    HD: And traditionally Europeans ate breads but it was always soured and that actual souring process does change the gluten into a less allergenic form although some people still react adversely to it.

    RP: And soaking it for 12 hours or so increases the protein value tremendously as well as destroying the gluten.

    HD: So soaking your grains before making the breads and then also souring them for 12 hours bread you know, sour dough bread is risen in 3 or 4 hours if that, maybe even one or two [hours].

    RP: I asked a baker and he said 20 minutes. Caller: Wow.

    HD: And that's not enough time for the culture in the starter to break down the gluten and change it into a much less allergenic form. So traditionally, we never ate bread products like we do today -­ and in fact a lot of the European cake recipes don't even call for flour because flour was this highly prized possession to have in Europe and most of the cakes and desserts were made with eggs and milk and sugar and not flour -­ and now since the rules have switched. But I know we are running out of time ‐ now the values have switched and flour is cheap and butter and eggs are expensive. Well, we are coming to the end of the show and now we only have a couple of minutes left and I don't want to rush the information that we’d like you to know about
    Dr Peat’s website. So thank you so much again for joining us Dr Peat and sharing all of your knowledge with us.

    RP: OK.

    HD: So, all of those people who have listened -­ Dr Raymond Peat’s got a very good website with a pretty extensive list of referenced material on many different subjects from thyroid to progesterone and other related hormones, to the fish oil experiments and many, many other things -­ So do take a look. His website is and -­ guess what -­ he’s not selling anything. OK. Very good information and well researched and can’t say enough good things about him and have seen a lot of very [not] positive situations turn around using his advice. So thank you very much.

    RE: We did have one last caller that wanted to caution people, I assume from her own experience, that soaking the wheat does not take care of her allergy issues. Be warned.

    HD: No, definitely, a lot of people still have difficulty eating grain products and not just wheat and I mean gluten-­containing grains -­ that a lot of grain products even with soaking, probably because of mainly the effects that they have on the intestines -­ maybe we can cover that in the next show. But we can be reached, Andrew, and myself, Sarah, can be reached I’ll tell you my number, 7079869506 or toll-­free 888 926 4372 and the acronym for that is ...wbmherbs (western botanical medicine herbs) for further consultations or more information. Thank you and good night and a Happy New Year to you. It’s 2011 and hopefully it’s going to go on for a bit longer. You could talk about that later too (laughs) OK. Have a good night. Thank you for listening.


    Attached Files:

  2. burtlancast

    burtlancast Member

    Jan 1, 2013
  3. Jakester

    Jakester Member

    Mar 29, 2016
    San Francisco Bay Area
    KMUD, in Northern California, has done some excellent interviews with Peat and these are available at YouTube. I like Andrew and Sarah a lot. I must say, however, I was just listening to one of their interviews at YouTube, and the conversation completely broke down due to bizarre technical problems. Andrew and Sarah seem to have the most inept engineering support staff in the history of the radio industry. Sad, really, that such knowledgeable folks are so radically let down in this way.
  4. Rickyman

    Rickyman Member

    Feb 24, 2017
    Did they leave that radio station?
    They have no contact info