Aajonus Vonderplanitz jumpstart / cliffsnotes / overview (raw, unpasteurized living)

Robert5493

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Very cool share. I'm sure there's something to it.

Probably the most remarkable thing I've heard Aajonus cite was the research of Howell on rats. It was very similar to Pottenger's work on cats. He was trying to prove that feeding rats cooked and processed food would shorten their life by 1/3rd, going from 3 years to 2 years.

He had the two study groups like Pottenger, one raw and one cooked... But in the first three year study, both groups lived to be 3 years old. Before running the experiment again, he realized that the cooked group was eating their own feces (I presume the raw group was as well).

So Howell put a wire mesh down for the second time around to prevent the rats from eating their own feces and sure enough the cooked group lived 2 years and the raw group lived 3 years.

To extrapolate that to humans, it might make the difference in 30 of 40 years of life for us.
Found this interview with Howell.
He believes in the rate of living hypothesis of longevity, based on how fast you burn through your limited stores of enzymes.

 

Ben.

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Found this interview with Howell.
He believes in the rate of living hypothesis of longevity, based on how fast you burn through your limited stores of enzymes.


I think there is benefit coming from enzymes, no doubt. Prolly one of the benefits of raw foods along with more nutrients not being damaged/destroyed during heating. Taking them from food and supplements doesn't seem to be that well understood however. Taking serrapapase and nattikonase as an example, i read storys of people able to get rid of lifelong scar tissue but eventually thoose either returned upon quitting the supplement or thoose supplements led to undesired changes with the bodys tissue.
Enzymes are also used as an addition in certain chronic conditions to break up biofilms, for example in lyme disease. However breaking thoose up might backfire horrible on the patient.... uhhhhh .... often times i wish health and biologie was alot simpler ...


I came across Howell and a book of his when i was trying enzymes from the guy of bioptimizers (a bodybuilder), who is realy big on enzyme supplementation. He sells prolly one of the best enzyme products there is, altough expensive. However if i look at that person for example, i don't get the impression that he embodies "health" or longevity all that much and he must be on enzymes for a long time by now.
 

joaquin

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I wish it were possible to have raw goat milk at every local grocery. I used to drink it many years ago and it is amazing.
 
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Twohandsondeck
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Found this interview with Howell.
He believes in the rate of living hypothesis of longevity, based on how fast you burn through your limited stores of enzymes.
Nice find. I'm skeptical of the enzyme hypothesis, especially when the person speaking about it says, "HOWELL: The only solution is to take capsules of concentrated plant enzymes."
Food for thought though.
I came across Howell and a book of his when i was trying enzymes from the guy of bioptimizers (a bodybuilder), who is realy big on enzyme supplementation. He sells prolly one of the best enzyme products there is, altough expensive. However if i look at that person for example, i don't get the impression that he embodies "health" or longevity all that much and he must be on enzymes for a long time by now.
Matt Gallant and Wade Lightheart were the first two guys I thought of when I read "enzyme hypothesis" too. It irks me that unless someone has a Wiki or IMDB page it's often difficult to find their age. I have no idea how old either of them are, but I remember hearing them making podcast rounds like 3 years ago talking about how special their product is and how they're both basically breathing the stuff day and night as if it's a panacea.

Of relevance, I bought into Blackburn's silly enzyme supplement about 6-8 months ago. Got through a quarter of the bottle trying it at every possible time of the day with respect to meals or no meals, in capsule/out of capsule just to find out it was a non-effect at best. Frankly I'm not sure who benefits from those supplements because all I've ever read are reviews and talking heads with vaguely positive anecdotes about breaking down supposed internal 'scar tissue' which hasn't been observed. I might be totally ignorant on it, but everything about enzyme supplements screams placebo to me.

Eating pineapple, ginger, or lemon juice after a protein meal, however, does have a noticeable impact on digestion.
 
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Twohandsondeck
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I wish it were possible to have raw goat milk at every local grocery. I used to drink it many years ago and it is amazing.

You could try to find a local farm that carries it

I see that raw milk is still banned in Louisiana. Stupid.
Even still, here are some resources that might be able to help you out:



craigslist.org
 
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Twohandsondeck
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Do you still drink coffee? Or do you find you don’t need it when eating raw animals products?
Yes, on average once every 2-3 days in the amount of 1-2 cups, usually as a weak brew at that. My relationship with coffee has changed dramatically since starting the primal diet.

If I have 1 cup of coffee, there's also going to be a minimum of 1 cup of raw milk, 1 tablespoon of raw butter, and 1 teaspoon of raw honey mixed with it, and I'll have a cube of raw cheese before it to boot. The coffee is more like a supplement to milk and fat now rather than being some sort of magic energy tonic.

The more than I consume a) steady supply of fat from various sources (butter, bone marrow, avocado, coconut oil, etc) and b) some combination of vegetable juice, milk, and green clay... The less I care about coffee. For years and years it was a planned pivot of my day... Whether I'd take it it in the morning to wake up for work, save it for the midday when working long hours, or take it in the evening knowing that I could sleep in the next day was once a bigger part of my brain space than I'm proud to admit. I'd feel awful if I had to take 2 days off of the stuff. In a lot of ways it mirrored my past relationship with marijuana.

In present day, more reliably than ever, coffee eases me into a relaxed and focused mood and also gives me that body temperature spike that the RPF would attribute to a boost in metabolism. Again, I take considerably less of the stuff (1-2 weak cups instead of 3-4 strong ones) now and always get a positive result. Over the course of the last year, at least half of the time I've had coffee it would trigger some sort of adrenaline/cortisol response regardless of the context preceding or proceeding its ingestion.

Anyhow, coffee is fun on the side now. I'd still be bummed if it were suddenly taken away from me, but at the same time I wouldn't have that panicky thought of, 'Oh no! What am I going to do now!? Life is going to be awful if I don't have it!'

Lastly, it's obvious to me now that coffee lends itself towards an excessively acidic blood state. Aajonus' theory on it calling into action a stressful hormonal response as a means of producing euphoria might be true. But again, as with all (potentially) destructive habits, it's best to cut them into progressively smaller pieces until they all but cease within the conscience.
 

TheSir

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The stuff is still a superfood. As long as it's not bringing you down, I'm sure it's a benefactor.
I found an interview which some Finnish magazine had published. In it Aajonus took his typical hard stance against pasteurization:

Q: According to your Primal Diet, using raw dairy products is very helpful, and using pasteurized products is very harmful for the body. In Finland, all diary products suffer pasteurization and homogenation. Grocery stores and health stores are not allowed to sell any unpasteurized dairy products, except a few central European cheeses that are sold in a few special cheese shops in our capital city. Also there are less and less cows in Finland. Do you think it would be better to stop using dairy products completely if nonpasteurized products are not available, or should we in that case use products with low fat or no fat at all?

A: In my milk report that I mentioned earlier, I documented many doctor-based reports that raw milk drinkers did not have disease and pasteurized dairy drinkers suffered certain diseases, from diabetes to osteoporosis. All cooked food promotes disease. I would avoid as much cooked food as possible, including pasteurized milk products. However, I suggest that you translate my milk report and use it to get the law changed in Finland. There is no reason you should not have the freedom to have and drink raw milk.


I discovered that here pasturization consists of mere 10-30 seconds of 70C/160F. I wonder how the consequences of this would compare to the 30 minute long pasteurization process seen in the US.


Here is also a book about his primal baths which I'm considering starting:

 
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Twohandsondeck
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I found an interview which some Finnish magazine had published. In it Aajonus took his typical hard stance against pasteurization:

Q: According to your Primal Diet, using raw dairy products is very helpful, and using pasteurized products is very harmful for the body. In Finland, all diary products suffer pasteurization and homogenation. Grocery stores and health stores are not allowed to sell any unpasteurized dairy products, except a few central European cheeses that are sold in a few special cheese shops in our capital city. Also there are less and less cows in Finland. Do you think it would be better to stop using dairy products completely if nonpasteurized products are not available, or should we in that case use products with low fat or no fat at all?

A: In my milk report that I mentioned earlier, I documented many doctor-based reports that raw milk drinkers did not have disease and pasteurized dairy drinkers suffered certain diseases, from diabetes to osteoporosis. All cooked food promotes disease. I would avoid as much cooked food as possible, including pasteurized milk products. However, I suggest that you translate my milk report and use it to get the law changed in Finland. There is no reason you should not have the freedom to have and drink raw milk.


I discovered that here pasturization consists of mere 10-30 seconds of 70C/160F. I wonder how the consequences of this would compare to the 30 minute long pasteurization process seen in the US.

To be honest, I was being optimistic about the pasteurized butter comment. But in defense of it, I came across this snippet recently:

Q: [unclear] …pasteurized butter?

A: It might be better than processed vegetable oils but it’s not equivalent
to raw, unsalted butter. Even freezing butter is a problem. Sally Fallon
[transcriber’s note: Weston A. Price Foundation] says freeze this and that.
When I took a group of animals and divided it into two and fed them identical
beef cuts from the same individual but one frozen, the other fresh. All the
animals fed frozen meat became dehydrated and developed a skin disorder within
six weeks. This was both cats and dogs. One was so bad, it looked like he had
mange. Animals fed same meat unfrozen were calm, relaxed, happy, no itching. All
they got that whole time was meat I didn’t even provide water, just meat. I
then thought I would test butter. Then I thought, “Well, I can test the butter
now.” So I took all the ones with skin conditions because I knew butter would
reverse any kind of skin conditions because it would get in there and handle the
poisons coming out through the skin, protect the cells and not get dried out. So
I took the same batch of raw, unsalted butter and froze half. Before I served it
to them, I would leave it out about 12 hours to come to room temperature. Dog
and cats don’t like cold things. The ones that were given the unfrozen butter
healed 5x quicker than those fed previously frozen butter. So the frozen butter
is 5x less potent.


It's 30 minutes here? Good grief. I reckon if Aajonus were to answer, he would give the typical absolutist response that as soon as a food is heated over 110 degree Fahrenheit that it's already had a chemical change in the structure of that fat molecule in addition to 50% of the vitamins and minerals being cauterized. However, my rudimentary cooking experience tells me that fatty foods will resist temperature change in the center for longer, like with a steak that is put into a covered pan. It takes significantly longer for the middle to cook to the same degree as the outside. The other side of the coin is that once the fat reaches a certain temperature, it seems to linger at that temperature for a long time, like it's insulated. This was my experience when making bone broth from bone marrow. Stuff stayed lava hot for way longer than any other food I can remember cooking. Notably, bone marrow is the densest fat source I've come across.

So I'd guess 10-30 seconds might not be a total loss but 30 minutes is 3rd degree dead.

Here is also a book about his primal baths which I'm considering starting:

https://mantysalo.com/aajonus/books/beneficial_home_baths.pdf
Right on dude! They're tough. When I first heard about them I set a goal to do one for an hour everyday for 30 days. The first couple were easy to hit 1hr 15 mins, but then my tolerance started dwindling quickly. I floated around 40-45 minutes for a few days and then it got down to 25 minutes before I felt completely torched, like all I could think about was breathing and barely being able to stand up. I was also exercising pretty intensely during most of those days so that put me in the grave really fast. When I felt as dry as a cactus I decided to quit doing them for a while and learned some stuff about them from his other appearances.

Aajonus seems hesitant to recommend them to skinny people. Because it's a detox protocol, he'd prefer that they gain weight - at least 15 pounds or so - before doing them. I recall he told a story about an obese fellow who was able to get away with doing a full 1.5 hours every day at a temperature of 110 degrees.

On the other hand, if someone has cancer - according to the Aajonus theory - they are beyond lymphatic stagnation and need to move the lymph system as soon as possible. I suppose it might depend on how much fat they're consuming on a daily basis in order to determine whether the bath will help or harm them by manually jumpstarting the lymphatic system.

Eating more fat and hitting the vegetable juice helps my temperature tolerance and sweat-ability the most noticeably. Working out will deplete the same reserves as the bath, especially ones that last longer than 45 minutes. Epsom salt and apple cider vinegar are cool additions to the bath, but I must say that adding a cup of milk to the tub makes the most impactful difference.

He remarked on one of the transcripts that 1/4 of people have to do a bath every day. It goes in 3 day cycles - day 1, long bath with pineapple, vinegar, coconut cream beforehand... day 2, 30ish minute short bath, day 3, short bath again, repeat. The long bath is supposed to mobilize crap from the connective tissue to the lymph tissue in the fatty layer of the skin, and then the short baths ensure that those toxins are removed. I'm under the impression the daily bath is for people who don't exercise at all.

Anyhow, please keep me posted on how it goes. In addition to Beneficial Home Baths I have all of the reading materials in pdf form if you - or anyone reading - would like them, just shoot me a message. It includes We Want to Live Parts 1 & 2, Recipe for Living Without Disease, Benefits of Raw Eggs and Cheese, and Observations and Techniques.
 

TheSir

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20 years of daily 1-1,5 hour baths sounds insane to be honest.
It does, though I think Aajonus was talking of some form of ideal health in which the lymphatic system was completely devoid of congestion. In the pdf he shared a couple of cases that alluded that recovering full functionality was, for all practical purposes, possible in just a few months. From that point on the improvements would probably just mean increasing forms of functional health.
 
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TheSir

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It's 30 minutes here?
Apparently it varies after all:

Pasteurization of milk, widely practiced in several countries, notably the United States, requires temperatures of about 63 °C (145 °F) maintained for 30 minutes or, alternatively, heating to a higher temperature, 72 °C (162 °F), and holding for 15 seconds (and yet higher temperatures for shorter periods of time).

What I do know for sure is that here we opt for the 15 second pasteurization.

I was able to find some imported unpasteurized swiss cheese (30€/kg, argh) from the local supermarket. Better than nothing. Bought some coconut cream too, damn that stuff tastes amazing. Way better than any pasteurized dairy cream I've ever tasted. It seems like my body instantly began craving more of it, like it was finally receiving something that had been missing.
Anyhow, please keep me posted on how it goes.
Will do. I'll have to figure out the logistics first, namely find something that could be used as a bath tub.
 
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Twohandsondeck
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I was able to find some imported unpasteurized swiss cheese (30€/kg, argh) from the local supermarket. Better than nothing. Bought some coconut cream too, damn that stuff tastes amazing. Way better than any pasteurized dairy cream I've ever tasted. It seems like my body instantly began craving more of it, like it was finally receiving something that had been missing.
The phenomenon is real. Sweet action!
Will do. I'll have to figure out the logistics first, namely find something that could be used as a bath tub.
This madlad comes to mind, doing the primal baths out of his car with river water:


View: https://youtu.be/J1po3BNIE6g


He links the products he's using in the description, the tub being:

Amazon product ASIN B079G36ZLVView: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B079G36ZLV/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_i_A6Z93QDD0VCM5NDVZE2T?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
 

TheSir

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The phenomenon is real. Sweet action!
I got a little too enthusiastic and gulped down the whole 250ml packet of the cream, then felt horribly nauseous for two hours. Wonder if honey would've helped with that. Well, I'll be taking less next time anyway heh.

This madlad comes to mind, doing the primal baths out of his car with river water:
Neat. Seems complicated and expensive, have to respect that degree of inventiveness though. I figured I'd just buy some kind of a barrel, lol.
 
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Twohandsondeck
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I got a little too enthusiastic and gulped down the whole 250ml packet of the cream, then felt horribly nauseous for two hours. Wonder if honey would've helped with that. Well, I'll be taking less next time anyway heh.
Haha the best kind of learning experience. Nibbling on raw cheese works pretty well to clear that up, but for immediate relief I'd imagine activated charcoal would work the fastest. Get cheesy when the going gets queasy~
Neat. Seems complicated and expensive, have to respect that degree of inventiveness though. I figured I'd just buy some kind of a barrel, lol.
Never even crossed my mind. The bachelor option. I'm interested to see what setup you come up with.
 

Dutchie

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This raw primal diet makes me think of the wai diet, which seems to be derived from it.
It advocates everything raw as well. They emphasize fruit, fish,eggs (yolks mostly) and olive oil.
Eating raw meat and nuts are a possibillity as well, but not advocated. There's no mention of dairy, so I assume that's out.
 

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CastorTroy

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To be honest, I was being optimistic about the pasteurized butter comment. But in defense of it, I came across this snippet recently:

Q: [unclear] …pasteurized butter?

A: It might be better than processed vegetable oils but it’s not equivalent
to raw, unsalted butter. Even freezing butter is a problem. Sally Fallon
[transcriber’s note: Weston A. Price Foundation] says freeze this and that.
When I took a group of animals and divided it into two and fed them identical
beef cuts from the same individual but one frozen, the other fresh. All the
animals fed frozen meat became dehydrated and developed a skin disorder within
six weeks. This was both cats and dogs. One was so bad, it looked like he had
mange. Animals fed same meat unfrozen were calm, relaxed, happy, no itching. All
they got that whole time was meat I didn’t even provide water, just meat. I
then thought I would test butter. Then I thought, “Well, I can test the butter
now.” So I took all the ones with skin conditions because I knew butter would
reverse any kind of skin conditions because it would get in there and handle the
poisons coming out through the skin, protect the cells and not get dried out. So
I took the same batch of raw, unsalted butter and froze half. Before I served it
to them, I would leave it out about 12 hours to come to room temperature. Dog
and cats don’t like cold things. The ones that were given the unfrozen butter
healed 5x quicker than those fed previously frozen butter. So the frozen butter
is 5x less potent.

Damn, I thought freezing didn't alter fats. I use to visit a distant farmer in my region once a month and pick him raw milk for that month. I can keep some in the fridge for the first 10 days, but the rest I have to freeze it for the rest of the month. Now after reading this I realize frozen isn't as ideal. I'd need to find a home method for separating the cream first, so I can freeze the milk skimmed and make butter with the cream which can be ketp well refrigerated for a month. That way I'd get all the fat benefits in its raw state with no freezing.
 

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