What are these white marks on the tongue?

[rayban]

I have a white tongue but also some white curved shapes that are white, they also turn red sometimes and itch, mostly on the tip of the tongue around that area. It starts as a tiny white dot, then forms into lines, then in 2 to 3 weeks disappeared. It has happened like 3 times. It happens there and also on the left side of the tongue.

The only thing I have found on the internet that looks like it is this pic (not me, its from reddit)

Original thread explains something similar:


View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Dentistry/comments/41ysfb/what_are_these_white_linescircles_on_my_tongue/


I have had discomfort in my mouth for months now, it was white for as long as I can remember but these things are annoying when they flare. The dentist said geographical tongue and prescribed a mouthwas that has chlorhexidine, 0.05% cetylpyridinium chloride (CPC) 0,05% and zinc lactate 0.14% for 3 weeks now. The tongue is still white, in fact is a bit now yellowish probably from the clorhexidine. Should I continue? the white spots just cycle as usual. Im taking pics every day and will post each day once I sort them out. Im also using a tongue scrapper similar to this:

It has an identation in one side to clean the middle of the tongue groove. I guess it improves a bit and I have removed bad hygiene, but is still white and the marks still show up, I still need to go to the dentist, probably get an xray to see if I have plaque under my gums, and get the plaque on 4 of my teeth removed. He said my gums on the area with the teeth with plaque are a bit inflammed. No cavities.

I use Eutirox 75mcg each night for a thyroid that shows up with some antibodies and TSH around 4.5 so not sure if related to the mucose in the mouth.

I wonder if I could get some stool sample or some other tests that could point to somewhere more resolutive than "geographical tongue".

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

It sounds to me like this.....


"Lichen planus is a common disease that causes inflammation (swelling and irritation) on your skin or inside your mouth. On your skin, lichen planus causes a rash that is usually itchy. Inside your mouth, it may cause burning or soreness."

Lichen Planus

Lichen planus is a common disease that causes inflammation (swelling and irritation) on your skin or inside your mouth. On your skin, lichen planus causes a rash that is usually itchy. Inside your mouth, it may cause burning or soreness.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

does oral plantar lichen come and go - Google Search

 

[rayban]

It sounds to me like this.....


"Lichen planus is a common disease that causes inflammation (swelling and irritation) on your skin or inside your mouth. On your skin, lichen planus causes a rash that is usually itchy. Inside your mouth, it may cause burning or soreness."

Lichen Planus

Lichen planus is a common disease that causes inflammation (swelling and irritation) on your skin or inside your mouth. On your skin, lichen planus causes a rash that is usually itchy. Inside your mouth, it may cause burning or soreness.

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

does oral plantar lichen come and go - Google Search

I was told by a dentist on reddit (verified on the subreddit to be a dentist):

Lichen planus is found on the mucosa (inside of the cheek). That's geographic tongue. It's benign. It will change shape and move, but it looks like a map, that's why it's called geographic tongue. It's just something some people have. We don't know why, but it doesn't cause a problem.

And the one I visited didn't mention lichen plabus but geographical tongue also. So not sure what to do. I want a solution for the itch.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I was told by a dentist on reddit (verified on the subreddit to be a dentist):


And the one I visited didn't mention lichen plabus but geographical tongue also. So not sure what to do. I want a solution for the itch.

What did the dentist you visited say it was?

 

[rayban]

What did the dentist you visited say it was?

Geographical tongue

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Geographical tongue

“Oil pulling” has indeed proven to be an effective way to reduce plaque and in turn give you healthier gums and teeth, but it is not intended to replace traditional dental care like brushing twice a day and flossing. However, when combined with other oral hygiene practices, including regular checkups with your Lincoln Family Dentistry Dentist, “oil pulling” can be a great way to potentially improve your oral hygiene using substances found in nature.

“Oil pulling” has been proven to treat condition “Geographic tongue.” Geographic tongue is a harmless condition and is typically seen as well-defined, reddened areas on and around the sides of the tongue. These red areas usually have a slightly white or yellow-white, raised line around their edges. Patients with this condition tend to get bad breath and sensitivity to certain foods. “Oil Pulling” has been proven to help this condition."

Redirect Notice

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Geographical tongue

Did this tongue issue just crop up or have you had it for some time?

 

[rayban]

Did this tongue issue just crop up or have you had it for some time?

I've had it for months. It has been white possibly for years, but the marks and discomfort started I think around last summer. At first it was and itched on the tip, then the marks showed up at some point. The marks on my left side sort of change shape but wouldn't fully away. The ones on the tip go away after 3 weeks or so. My tip was now fully clear but im seeing again a small circle which I think will do the whole cycle again. I have pics of thing going from a dot, to a circle, to 2 lines, and then disappearing.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I've had it for months. It has been white possibly for years, but the marks and discomfort started I think around last summer. At first it was and itched on the tip, then the marks showed up at some point. The marks on my left side sort of change shape but wouldn't fully away. The ones on the tip go away after 3 weeks or so. My tip was now fully clear but im seeing again a small circle which I think will do the whole cycle again. I have pics of thing going from a dot, to a circle, to 2 lines, and then disappearing.

So strange. The itchy tip of the tongue sounds like my son's yeast infection from antibiotics. It never turned into anything more before erradicating it. I wonder if something like oregano oil capsules for a short time could work. It kills fungus and some pretty stubborn other things.

 

[rayban]

So strange. The itchy tip of the tongue sounds like my son's yeast infection from antibiotics. It never turned into anything more before erradicating it. I wonder if something like oregano oil capsules for a short time could work. It kills fungus and some pretty stubborn other things.

I have used an entire bottle (500ml) of the mouthwashed i mentioned which contains 0.05 clorhexidine so my mouth should be clear from stuff at this point, however I still need to get the tartar removed and hoping I don't have any under the gum because no mouthwash or anything would touch that so I would need it removed by hand.

The marks from what i've researched there is no specific way to know what it is. Vitamin b12 worked for some. I have bloodworks soon and will include vitamin b12, homocisteine and MMA to watch b12 levels among other things.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I have used an entire bottle (500ml) of the mouthwashed i mentioned which contains 0.05 clorhexidine so my mouth should be clear from stuff at this point, however I still need to get the tartar removed and hoping I don't have any under the gum because no mouthwash or anything would touch that so I would need it removed by hand.

The marks from what i've researched there is no specific way to know what it is. Vitamin b12 worked for some. I have bloodworks soon and will include vitamin b12, homocisteine and MMA to watch b12 levels among other things.

I am sorry I am not able to come up with any great ideas, as it is hard to treat something that you don't know what it is. I will surely keep my eyes and ears open for your situation Let me know if you find out anything more.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

I saw this e-mail exchange with Ray Peat and thought of you rayban.....

"Local bacteria are usually involved in the white tongue, but typically the problem is mainly in the intestine. I have experimented with the old-fashioned "intestinal disinfectant" camphoric acid (it used to be a common pharmaceutical, 80 to 100 years ago), and when I would swallow about 100 to 200 mg of it in the evening, I would wake up with a perfectly clean tongue, not a bit of the white. Bamboo shoots, raw carrot, and flowers of sulfur are other antiseptics that can reduce the white tongue."

 

[rayban]

I saw this e-mail exchange with Ray Peat and thought of you rayban.....

"Local bacteria are usually involved in the white tongue, but typically the problem is mainly in the intestine. I have experimented with the old-fashioned "intestinal disinfectant" camphoric acid (it used to be a common pharmaceutical, 80 to 100 years ago), and when I would swallow about 100 to 200 mg of it in the evening, I would wake up with a perfectly clean tongue, not a bit of the white. Bamboo shoots, raw carrot, and flowers of sulfur are other antiseptics that can reduce the white tongue."

Im gonna get a stool sample test which tests for a bunch of potential viruses, parasites and other stuff.
is it possible to contact Ray Peat somehow? I would like to send him some photos.

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

Im gonna get a stool sample test which tests for a bunch of potential viruses, parasites and other stuff.
is it possible to contact Ray Peat somehow? I would like to send him some photos.

No I don't, but I would like to know that contact number too.

 

[Nebula]

I noticed the white film on my tongue disappeared a few days ago. I thought it might be from the potassium citrate I started drinking a week ago, so I tried brushing my tongue with a tiny amount of the powder. It immediately became perfectly clean and reddish pink. I’ve never seen it this clean. I’m not sure what the mechanism is, maybe the citrate is bonding with calcium and other minerals on the biofilm. Then once the film is weakened it quickly dissolves and falls apart.

 

[rayban]

I noticed the white film on my tongue disappeared a few days ago. I thought it might be from the potassium citrate I started drinking a week ago, so I tried brushing my tongue with a tiny amount of the powder. It immediately became perfectly clean and reddish pink. I’ve never seen it this clean. I’m not sure what the mechanism is, maybe the citrate is bonding with calcium and other minerals on the biofilm. Then once the film is weakened it quickly dissolves and falls apart.

But do you get these markers or only just a white coated film? what worries me is these marks because they go from white to red to white for a while, change form pretty much daily, and eventually disappear, then after a couple of days it repeats again.

 

[Vileplume]

Im not sure if milk worsens my tongue condiiton so I stopped drinking it. I bought some goat cheese and goat yogur as well as goat kefir, i cant find goat milk. In case you want to see the tongue thing:

What are these white marks on the tongue?

I have a white tongue but also some white curved shapes that are white, they also turn red sometimes and itch, mostly on the tip of the tongue around that area. It starts as a tiny white dot, then forms into lines, then in 2 to 3 weeks disappeared. It has happened like 3 times. It happens there...

raypeatforum.com

I will post updated pics once I sort them out (thats not my pic but its similar). They turn red too, back and forth red, white, red white etc, sometimes itches sometimes it doesn't, eventually disappear and it begins again in a couple of days. Im going to get a stool sample to look for any viruses, parasites or fungus or something.

I also tend to be on the constipated side I think it's worth investigating with some stool samples. I will also get a big bloodwork with a lot of markers that will post and hopefully you can check it out.

Im also interested in testing dopamine, serotonin, and histamine levels. But how do you test these? I heard they fluctuate a lot. A way to test histamine would be the DAO enzyme for instance, but not sure about actual histamine levels.

Also, as far as testing candida on blood, is it possible? what do I ask on the lab?

And about the Tyromax, can you provide link? do they send to Europe? I may try after labs. I take 75mcg of eutirox at night at around 5 am, because im still awake. I go to bed aroudn 6 am, wake up at 3pm, yes its a mess, but I work from home, so I can do any schelude I want, and I feel better if I wake up late and go to bed late, when I try to wake up early in the morning im like a zombie for the first hours. I want to wake up at least an hour or two earlier to get some sun tho. Im taking 200 UI D3 with 75 μg k2 mk7 liquid EVOO supplement every other day. I will include vitamin D levels on the next test including active metabolite of vitamin D which a lot of people don't test for so they think their levels are ok but they only check the inactive one.

@HighT can you translate what these markers in russian mean? including MAT and TAT

Hey rayban, I will reply to your comment over here, because this thread seems more relevant.

Yes, I think anything poorly digested, or that lingers or troubles the intestine, will make the tongue white. Regular cow's milk does it for me, but goat's milk doesn't at all, as long as I give enough space between meals. Do you have access to any A2 milk, like A2 cow's milk?

Another thing to try is just making sure to have distinct meal times, not snacking on milk, or anything, in between. I have had white tongue issues for a very long time, even though my white tongue looks different than yours, but mine has improved recently with:
-getting lots of insoluble fiber (carrot salad, pureed mushrooms, bamboo shoots)
-spacing out my meals and having distinct meal times
-cutting out most foods from my diet (just leaving OJ, the fibers above, goat milk, masa harina tortillas, goat and sheep cheese, eggs, some meat, liver, oysters occasionally)

In addition to my tongue problems, I've had constipation for a while that still troubles me. I think the insoluble fiber helps, as does keeping a high body temperature, but I also think long-term constipation takes a while to resolve. Like, it might take years of a generally low inflammation state for our inflamed intestines and bowel to open up again. Thinking about the intestines and bowel as inflamed, it makes me liken constipation and diarrhea to a clogged artery, where there isn't enough space for the stool to travel through quickly. I'm not sure how scientific this view is though, it might be wrong.

I think you can test for dopamine serotonin, not sure about histamine. I heard Peat mention that you can test for dopamine, which makes me think serotonin is possible too, I'm just not sure how common those are. I'd imagine not all doctors give them out standard, so you might have to pay extra for those, or find a particular doctor.

I've heard Peat say that actual candida infections are less common than people think, because once candida crosses the gut lining and reaches the blood, you die very quickly. So I would guess that candida isn't available via blood test -- it's more likely to be a breath test I think, but even still I don't know if it's possible. And maybe it is possible via blood, I'm just speculating.

Do you drink coffee in the morning, when you feel like a zombie? I'm not sure about eutirox, I've never heard of it, but I haven't heard Peat mention it. Here's the Tyromax link and the thread for it: TyroMax - Liquid Thyroid (NDT), USP

I personally take cynoplus, which I order from Mexico.

Hope this helps.

 

[rayban]

Hey rayban, I will reply to your comment over here, because this thread seems more relevant.

Yes, I think anything poorly digested, or that lingers or troubles the intestine, will make the tongue white. Regular cow's milk does it for me, but goat's milk doesn't at all, as long as I give enough space between meals. Do you have access to any A2 milk, like A2 cow's milk?

Another thing to try is just making sure to have distinct meal times, not snacking on milk, or anything, in between. I have had white tongue issues for a very long time, even though my white tongue looks different than yours, but mine has improved recently with:
-getting lots of insoluble fiber (carrot salad, pureed mushrooms, bamboo shoots)
-spacing out my meals and having distinct meal times
-cutting out most foods from my diet (just leaving OJ, the fibers above, goat milk, masa harina tortillas, goat and sheep cheese, eggs, some meat, liver, oysters occasionally)

In addition to my tongue problems, I've had constipation for a while that still troubles me. I think the insoluble fiber helps, as does keeping a high body temperature, but I also think long-term constipation takes a while to resolve. Like, it might take years of a generally low inflammation state for our inflamed intestines and bowel to open up again. Thinking about the intestines and bowel as inflamed, it makes me liken constipation and diarrhea to a clogged artery, where there isn't enough space for the stool to travel through quickly. I'm not sure how scientific this view is though, it might be wrong.

I think you can test for dopamine serotonin, not sure about histamine. I heard Peat mention that you can test for dopamine, which makes me think serotonin is possible too, I'm just not sure how common those are. I'd imagine not all doctors give them out standard, so you might have to pay extra for those, or find a particular doctor.

I've heard Peat say that actual candida infections are less common than people think, because once candida crosses the gut lining and reaches the blood, you die very quickly. So I would guess that candida isn't available via blood test -- it's more likely to be a breath test I think, but even still I don't know if it's possible. And maybe it is possible via blood, I'm just speculating.

Do you drink coffee in the morning, when you feel like a zombie? I'm not sure about eutirox, I've never heard of it, but I haven't heard Peat mention it. Here's the Tyromax link and the thread for it: TyroMax - Liquid Thyroid (NDT), USP

I personally take cynoplus, which I order from Mexico.

Hope this helps.

Hi, there's a local place that claim that they have a2 fresh cow milk but I would need to walk in there since the milk only lasts like 7 days and its too far, also no specified amount of a2 to a1 ratio is given so im not sure.

I can get a lot of tests if I want because I pay directly to a lab with no prescription, it's pricey but it's the only way to get exactly what you wanted.

As far as candidad I know a test that can test for i on a stool sample along with other things such as borrelia, h.pyroly etc

The white coated look a lot of people have, what worries me is the distinct marks that show up on the right side and on the tip of the tongue. That is not my pics, I will pic a lot of pics soon and you can see it changes daily.

What I should do next first of all I think is going to the dentist to get the nasty plaque buildup I have on like 3 teeth tho.

As far as thyroid sups, eutirox is just the european synthroid, so basically T4. How would I benefit from replacing it with TyroMax? and which would be the equivalent dose of 75mcg? because I guess that would be the first thing, to keep the same dose at first. I need updated bloodworks before doing it.

 

[Vileplume]

Hi, there's a local place that claim that they have a2 fresh cow milk but I would need to walk in there since the milk only lasts like 7 days and its too far, also no specified amount of a2 to a1 ratio is given so im not sure.

I can get a lot of tests if I want because I pay directly to a lab with no prescription, it's pricey but it's the only way to get exactly what you wanted.

As far as candidad I know a test that can test for i on a stool sample along with other things such as borrelia, h.pyroly etc

The white coated look a lot of people have, what worries me is the distinct marks that show up on the right side and on the tip of the tongue. That is not my pics, I will pic a lot of pics soon and you can see it changes daily.

What I should do next first of all I think is going to the dentist to get the nasty plaque buildup I have on like 3 teeth tho.

As far as thyroid sups, eutirox is just the european synthroid, so basically T4. How would I benefit from replacing it with TyroMax? and which would be the equivalent dose of 75mcg? because I guess that would be the first thing, to keep the same dose at first. I need updated bloodworks before doing it.

Do you know your waking body temperature?

Dr. Peat has spoken of a woman in terrible condition, who was prescribed T4 only. As her doctors increased the dose of T4, she got worse and worse, until they gave her some T3 and she rapidly improved.

So I think adding some T3 to your eutirox, if you can find T3, or using a product like tyromax and tyromix (which has a 2:1 T4:T3 ratio) would be very helpful. T4 is tough to transcribe into grains because grain measurements usually factor in both T3 and T4, but I think 75 mcg T4 is roughly 3/4 grain. So with the tyromax, since 7 drops is a grain, you could start with 5 or 6 drops. Whatever thyroid you take, make sure to take your waking body temperature to calibrate your dose.

 

[rayban]

Do you know your waking body temperature?

Dr. Peat has spoken of a woman in terrible condition, who was prescribed T4 only. As her doctors increased the dose of T4, she got worse and worse, until they gave her some T3 and she rapidly improved.

So I think adding some T3 to your eutirox, if you can find T3, or using a product like tyromax and tyromix (which has a 2:1 T4:T3 ratio) would be very helpful. T4 is tough to transcribe into grains because grain measurements usually factor in both T3 and T4, but I think 75 mcg T4 is roughly 3/4 grain. So with the tyromax, since 7 drops is a grain, you could start with 5 or 6 drops. Whatever thyroid you take, make sure to take your waking body temperature to calibrate your dose.

Why did the T4 make her worse?

What worries me right is now is the tongue, i always have some discomfort, i dont want to get a biopsy and get told there are cancer cells or something because my body would shut down from the stress most likely. But then again, what else is there to do? i've asked around and apparently its "geographical tongue" which is basically "something we don't know but it's not worrisome".