Burning Mouth Syndrome following dental extraction nightmare - please help!

[nervepain2021]

New to this forum and so grateful for all the positive changes I have experienced since adopting more metabolically supportive foods. Had some hiccups along the way, but labs just pulled and all thyroid markers are in the best ranges they have been in years, T4 is just flagged as slightly high so will be watching that. In trying other types of 'healthy' eating for years, never saw this sort of progress.

Now to my issue and plea for help. Sorry for the long post in advance. In March I had a root canal'd tooth extracted (never should have done the root canal but a holistic dentist convinced me to give it a try, 2 weeks later the pain was worse and it was pulled). The tooth had been a problem tooth (pre molar) for years...cavity close to the root, crown, and eventually bought 5+ years of pushing off root canal advice before the cold sensitivity turned to throbbing.

Upon extraction, dentist found an infection in my jaw bone. Who's to say if it was there pre-root canal or not, but I feel like he would have mentioned it. He cleaned all the infected tissue/scraped out - and put in a bone graft & membrane. The next month was hell, pain never decreased, surrounding teeth started bleeding gums, tongue looked terrible from the start. Went on antibiotics for 8 days, after which I could tolerate discomfort without pain pills. But still the new gums felt off. I kept going in weekly, dentist said it was healing fine - gave ozone treatments. Then I developed oral thrush, went on diflucan and Nystatin rinse. Got somewhat better, developed an achiness in my upper and lower palates and gum areas behind top and bottom 4-6 teeth. Eventually I ditched the Nystatin and thrush cleared up with baking soda and propolis extract. Achiness did not go away. I was on 800 mg advil every 6 hours for nearly the full month, no other pain meds or prescription stuff seemed to work for me.

At the 1 month check up, dentist said if I was still in pain - he had to cut the extraction site open. Upon cutting it, there was NO BONE GRAFT! It 'did not take' as he said - he said this never happens. He scraped out the granulated gum tissue and few pieces of bone graft particles and basically treated me for dry socket. Two days were painful, but after that the site did not throb any more. Gums still ached, so he suspected Burning Mouth Syndrome and said it's neurological. Treated me with twice weekly ozone injections.

So here I am, 2 months in with a 3 week healing extraction site (that will prob have to be re-grafted at some point), and either Burning Mouth Syndrome or a lingering oral infection (but no sign of thrush). A functional doctor suspects that a biofilm got created from the infected cyst in my jaw bone when he did the initial extraction, and surround the bone graft compromising it. Beyond the aching pain (which gets worse after lunch and can be up to a 7/10 in the evening), I also stopped sleeping (have had a bout of insomnia back in 2016- found out I had candida overgrowth and worked through that, so perhaps Candida was triggered again in this case with the oral thrush - thought an oral swab did not confirm candida). I have had panic attacks, and every 3'ish days I break down crying (try not to in front of my kids, but sometimes it just happens). I am on 1 mg Ativan before bed, .5 mg Ativan in the morning and now trying Gabapentin (200 mg twice a day). There seems to be some decrease of pain with the Gaba but it's not consistent and I suspect I prob will have to titrate up - so I prob will need to either just embrace the pain meds again or suffer through, and i'm just worn out.

I meet with a few specialists (dental, hormonal, etc) over the next few months to see if they can figure out what this is (Burning Mouth or something else), I get my hormone labs done next week - to see if there is a correlation with prog/estrogen etc (I have had low progesterone in the past, delivered my son preemie - tried bio identical progesterone at some pt but didn't feel anything but grogginess - prob wrong dose and doctor). Functional dr said she'll eval the labs and then we can talk about progesterone, pregnenolone, DHEA etc.


Has anyone gone through something called Burning Mouth or anything like this before? I know I still need to be patient to really identify if it is burning mouth (b/c my tongue does not burn, which seems to be the typical presentation), but the pain is terrible and I'm wondering if it is hormone related, virus related, both or something else. I did read that dissolving klonopin and then swishing and spitting it out can help, but already being on one benzo which I hope to wean off of sooner than later is prob enough at this stage.

I am also taking L-Theanine, Systemic Enzymes, Vit E, B Complex (for the thrush, will prob switch to Niacinamide once the bottle is empty), some anti-fungals for candida (oregano, caprylic), Mag Glycinate and carbonate, plus some herbs from the accupuncturist (during treatment my pain goes down to a 2).

Having lots of raw dairy (goat & cow), vit c/fruits, 1 starch a day, grass fed beef, lamb, eggs, bone broth, salting foods, adrenal cocktails etc. Did Josh & Jeanne's course earlier this year and I def see the positive impact on my thyroid labs. I am a 40 year old woman, work full time, married to an amazing husband and have 2 kids (ages 6 and 8).

Thank you for anyone out there who may have experienced this and be on the other side of it. My functional doc had 2 patients and said it took months, one was able to mask her pain with Gabapentin, the other just tried things until it went away. I hope mine will also pass, I'm just on 3 months of pretty severe pain and feeling depleted. Meanwhile i'll keep looking at what's already on this forum - doc also mentioned Low Dose Naltrexone, and other options...but i know with all of these are side effects, including hormones. *sigh*

 

[yerrag]

Sorry to hear you're in a lot of pain, and that you're not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel yet is a difficult situation to be in.

I think you're problem may not be at the periodontal level in the mouth, and that it is systemic. Eating into the bone already says you had an advanced condition of infection before action was taken, and during those years the bacteria would also have gone into your blood vessels. I would guess that if you looked at your CBC, you would find high wbc, high neutrophils, high monocytes - at the very least. And that you may have higher uric acid levels, higher blood pressure, higher MCV (red blood cells), and your RBC, Hemoglobin, and Hemotocrit may be high as well. I could be off though, as I'm only speaking from my own experience having periodontitis and having gone through teeth extractions as a result.

My teeth extractions went pretty well, and some extractions had my dentist scraping off periodontal bacterial colonies that looked like a mass of flesh. The worst one ate into the bone but not too deeply. However, my dentist told me on the next visit that it had healed quickly, and he attributes that to a healthy body that heals quickly.

It seems that infectious condition at the periodontal spaces extends far beyond the tooth that was extracted. It may result in future extractions if left as is. After my first extraction due to periodontitis, I have gone back twice for more extractions, and I'm hoping I can arrest that process as I don't want to end up with a full set of fake dentures in later years. But that's something you don't concern with for now.

What blood tests do you have? For now, please post your CBC and we can start off with that. This at least will give me an idea of your systemic level of infection, to gauge how significant the extent of the periodontal infection has gone into your system.

I'm currently in the process of finally solving my high blood pressure condition and it has taken me a long time to understand the causes of it. So I may have some answers for you from my limited experience I have working on myself. It is easier to deal with it if you are in a good metabolic state. If you are not in that state, then improving that also comes into play. The less metabolically sound one is, the more pharma intervention is needed.

 

[nervepain2021]

Sorry to hear you're in a lot of pain, and that you're not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel yet is a difficult situation to be in.

I think you're problem may not be at the periodontal level in the mouth, and that it is systemic. Eating into the bone already says you had an advanced condition of infection before action was taken, and during those years the bacteria would also have gone into your blood vessels. I would guess that if you looked at your CBC, you would find high wbc, high neutrophils, high monocytes - at the very least. And that you may have higher uric acid levels, higher blood pressure, higher MCV (red blood cells), and your RBC, Hemoglobin, and Hemotocrit may be high as well. I could be off though, as I'm only speaking from my own experience having periodontitis and having gone through teeth extractions as a result.

My teeth extractions went pretty well, and some extractions had my dentist scraping off periodontal bacterial colonies that looked like a mass of flesh. The worst one ate into the bone but not too deeply. However, my dentist told me on the next visit that it had healed quickly, and he attributes that to a healthy body that heals quickly.

It seems that infectious condition at the periodontal spaces extends far beyond the tooth that was extracted. It may result in future extractions if left as is. After my first extraction due to periodontitis, I have gone back twice for more extractions, and I'm hoping I can arrest that process as I don't want to end up with a full set of fake dentures in later years. But that's something you don't concern with for now.

What blood tests do you have? For now, please post your CBC and we can start off with that. This at least will give me an idea of your systemic level of infection, to gauge how significant the extent of the periodontal infection has gone into your system.

I'm currently in the process of finally solving my high blood pressure condition and it has taken me a long time to understand the causes of it. So I may have some answers for you from my limited experience I have working on myself. It is easier to deal with it if you are in a good metabolic state. If you are not in that state, then improving that also comes into play. The less metabolically sound one is, the more pharma intervention is needed.

Hello Yerrag - boy it's nice to just hear from someone, my family has been so supportive but sometimes I just feel so alone and overwhelmed (even with the gratitude I have to be able to access doctors etc). And I know you are right about this being systemic, it's just a matter of what it is. Your explanation of the festering jaw bone infection makes sense, and the delicate oral microbiome definitely got disrupted. I just can't figure out if thrush started right away, if there was some other oral issue unleashed...and then it got pushed into high gear thanks to antibiotics. But whatever the case is, here we are. My mouth is so uncomfortable, and after 2 months of dealing with pretty constant pain I am so worn out and just want the pain gone. But I also hate taking medications b/c I know there are side effects, so it's that mental battle.

I'm also so sorry you have had the ordeal you have had, and I hope you are on the other side of it. It gives me hope to know that you have been approaching it more holistically and thank you for being so generous to take a look at my info and give me any feedback you may have.

Just in case helpful - I have been eating more 'pro metabolic' since mid December - worked slowly to reincorporate dairy and switch from complex carbs to more fruits, OJ/adrenal cocktail, upping animal proteins and including organ meats, oysters and some new supplements like E). Prob say I have been consistently eating this way for 2 months and then during the month of mid March to mid April I basically ate what i could, lots of smoothies b/c I was so nauseous from pain, painkillers and antibiotics. I have always been prone to low blood pressure, I usually run cold (feeling better with the way I'm eating and with the warming weather, but in winter I wear 2 pairs of socks - this winter I actually developed chillblains which was super painful - it was shortly after i stopped taking zinc, vitamin D and fish oil so maybe my body just tanked in supplemented heat somehow?).

So I just got my labs done last week and here are the results (this one did not include neutrophils and monocytes but I can get those requested if it would be of any help):

May 2021:
CBC (H/H, RBC, INDICES, WBC, PLT)
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.1 3.8 - 10.8 Thousand/uL
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 4.67 3.80 - 5.10 Million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 12.9 11.7 - 15.5 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 40.1 35.0 - 45.0 %
MCV 85.9 80.0 - 100.0 fL
MCH 27.6 27.0 - 33.0 pg
MCHC 32.2 32.0 - 36.0 g/dL
RDW 12.9 11.0 - 15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 220 140 - 400 Thousand/uL
MPV 11.8 7.5 - 12.5 fL

Thyroid: May 2021
TSH 2.16
T3, FREE 3.2 2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL
T4, FREE, DIRECT DIALYSIS 2.3 This was my one flagged as high Range 0.9 - 2.2 ng/dL
T4, TOTAL 8.2 4.8 - 10.4 mcg/dL
Negative on Thyroid antibodies & Thyroglobulin antibodies

In comparison, labs from earlier this year - Jan '21:
TSH 2.2.5
Free T4 1.11 .9-2.2
Reverse T3 18.6 Range 9.2 - 24.1
Free T3 2.9
Negative Thyroglobulin antibodies & TPO
AM Cortisol 23.2 (flagged High) - Range 6-19 *Getting this done again soon, didn't remember it was an AM fasted, so gotta go back. Also requested Full Monty Panel

May 2019 was the last time I had the CBC done:

WBC 3.2 (Flagged low) --> I think it's been flagged low for years so this recent test was the first one it didn't come back low actually
RBC 4.57
MCH 27.6 26-33
HEMOGLOBIN 12.6 11.7 - 15.5 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 39.9 35.0 - 45.0 %
MCV 87 80.0 - 100.0 fL
MCH 27.6 27.0 - 33.0 pg
MCHC 31.6 32.0 - 36.0 g/dL
RDW 14.4 11.0 - 15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 159 150-450 Thousand/uL
Neutrophils (absolute) 1.2 (flagged low 1.4 -7
Monocytes 8
Monocytes (absolute) .3

Getting my hormone tests next week (saliva) so that will be more info on the prog, estrogen, DHEA side. I missed a cycle during that first month with the extraction...I have had off cycle spotting for years, but never missed a cycle. Not sure if that was due to stress (my first assumption) or things regulating but luckily my cycle returned the beginning of this month and so far so good. No spotting yet, will see how it goes.

I would welcome any thoughts. I am currently on 200 Gabapentin around 11 am, and 200 mg around 5 pm. Those are the times when pain starts to get worse and just keeps getting worse. Some days the Gaba seems to help (maybe it's also with the Theanine), other days like yday and today - it's just been more or less constant aching from 10/11 am on and gets progessively worse until bedtime. My accupuncture appt brought my pain down to a 2, and she's working on adrenals and some other points - she said she is starting to see a pattern, and of course needs me to keep digestion strong. I have some magnets on to keep the pressure on and will massage those points. i also do some red light therapy toward my mouth, some EFT, breath work, daily walks, and castor oil packs on some evenings (interestingly, the castor oil packs make the burning mouth intensity higher, i recall this and red light doing the same to my throbbing tooth before i got it extracted...not sure what that means).

My dr thinks I need to titrate up the Gaba. If it takes away the pain, I may be willing to do it - I know I can get off the Ativan but don't want to stay on it long, so if I can get the pain under control I can wean faster. I just don't know if the Gaba will do the trick and how much I would need to take, or if I should keep titrating up. I also read about dissolving klonopin lozenges in the mouth, swirling and spitting - that some claim it took away the burning. It's also a benzo but if this time next week there's no progress I may ask to just try that.

In any case, let me know your thoughts. I'm sure I sound all over the place, but while I want to avoid pharma - I also realize that I am not doing my stress hormones any good tolerating pain. Tonite I am actually feeling some of my tongue hurting which is new so I just don't see this going away without some help.

Thank you for your thoughts!

 

[Doc Sandoz]

I would welcome any thoughts. I am currently on 200 Gabapentin around 11 am, and 200 mg around 5 pm. Those are the times when pain starts to get worse and just keeps getting worse. Some days the Gaba seems to help (maybe it's also with the Theanine), other days like yday and today - it's just been more or less constant aching from 10/11 am on and gets progessively worse until bedtime. My accupuncture appt brought my pain down to a 2, and she's working on adrenals and some other points - she said she is starting to see a pattern, and of course needs me to keep digestion strong. I have some magnets on to keep the pressure on and will massage those points. i also do some red light therapy toward my mouth, some EFT, breath work, daily walks, and castor oil packs on some evenings (interestingly, the castor oil packs make the burning mouth intensity higher, i recall this and red light doing the same to my throbbing tooth before i got it extracted...not sure what that means).

My dr thinks I need to titrate up the Gaba. If it takes away the pain, I may be willing to do it - I know I can get off the Ativan but don't want to stay on it long, so if I can get the pain under control I can wean faster. I just don't know if the Gaba will do the trick and how much I would need to take, or if I should keep titrating up. I also read about dissolving klonopin lozenges in the mouth, swirling and spitting - that some claim it took away the burning. It's also a benzo but if this time next week there's no progress I may ask to just try that.

In any case, let me know your thoughts. I'm sure I sound all over the place, but while I want to avoid pharma - I also realize that I am not doing my stress hormones any good tolerating pain. Tonite I am actually feeling some of my tongue hurting which is new so I just don't see this going away without some help.

Thank you for your thoughts!

I'm sorry you've had such a terrible time with this. I've not experienced anything near as severe, but was myself diagnosed with Burning Mouth Syndrome, a disorder of which I'd never before heard or suspected, after having suddenly developed curious mouth symptoms. In my case the symptoms came out of the blue starting with a feeling of pressure and pain above one molar, then later on that was compounded by a burning sensation across the palate ridge behind the top front teeth. Sometimes these would occur together, but more often alternate. There were days of no symptoms, then they'd would return for no obvious reason.

Upon examination, I heard my dentist say to the nurse "we have to calm that nerve down." Then he prescribed this stuff called "Magic Mixture" or "Magic Mouthwash" which has to be made at a compounding pharmacy. The active ingredient is Lidocaine. You are supposed to swish it around, but I merely paint the affected areas thickly with a cotton swab, let it sit for a minute, and spit it out. During bad spells I'd repeat until the pain subsides, which it always does. At first, I thought to myself what good is this for the underlying problem, treating the symptom but not a cure? Then I read what Ray has to say about the systemic benefits of Lidocaine. (Search for Lidocaine at Ray Peat Search ) My subsequent experience has been a gradual subsidence of frequency and severity of attacks over several months. Of course, I cannot prove Lidocaine was curative, maybe healing was independent of it. Still, it is quite possible it did more than just temporarily anaesthetize the nerve, but that it actually helped heal it.

 

[nervepain2021]

I'm sorry you've had such a terrible time with this. I've not experienced anything near as severe, but was myself diagnosed with Burning Mouth Syndrome, a disorder of which I'd never before heard or suspected, after having suddenly developed curious mouth symptoms. In my case the symptoms came out of the blue starting with a feeling of pressure and pain above one molar, then later on that was compounded by a burning sensation across the palate ridge behind the top front teeth. Sometimes these would occur together, but more often alternate. There were days of no symptoms, then they'd would return for no obvious reason.

Upon examination, I heard my dentist say to the nurse "we have to calm that nerve down." Then he prescribed this stuff called "Magic Mixture" or "Magic Mouthwash" which has to be made at a compounding pharmacy. The active ingredient is Lidocaine. You are supposed to swish it around, but I merely paint the affected areas thickly with a cotton swab, let it sit for a minute, and spit it out. During bad spells I'd repeat until the pain subsides, which it always does. At first, I thought to myself what good is this for the underlying problem, treating the symptom but not a cure? Then I read what Ray has to say about the systemic benefits of Lidocaine. (Search for Lidocaine at Ray Peat Search ) My subsequent experience has been a gradual subsidence of frequency and severity of attacks over several months. Of course, I cannot prove Lidocaine was curative, maybe healing was independent of it. Still, it is quite possible it did more than just temporarily anaesthetize the nerve, but that it actually helped heal it.

Hi Doc - thank you so much for sharing your experience, and I'm sorry you also had to go through Burning Mouth. My functional dr had 2 patients with BMS and she said one benefitted from Gabapentin, one from trying diff things (including Magic Mouthwash). In both cases their issues resolved (I assume fully, but will ask at my next appt). So perhaps time allows the nerves to heal again? I will definitely check the thread out, I have heard about the mouthwash. An oral surgeon had mentioned it as an 'all in one' but was hesitant to prescribe it for me b/c he wasn't sure if I still had thrush issues. I'm seeing a specialist on Tuesday so perhaps I will make a request for the prescription and try the painting method. I did something similar with an allum mouthwash my mother-in-law made (indian ayurvedic mixture of cooking allum, grinding it and mixing with rock salt - and then a 1/4 tsp in warm water, rinse and spit). I found if i rinsed it would dry and almost tighten my mouth, make my tongue weird...but if i just applied to the areas with a cotton ball it seemed to temporarily calm the aching down.

Thanks for posting, right now it just helps so much to know folks are out there who either have gone through this and are on the other side, or just willing to share their thoughts!

 

[akgrrrl]

Lucky you that Yerrag is on this thread, he has first hand experience and a lot of research behind his word. I know, because I was you when I got here.My saga extraction of an old root canal found me on antibiotics 1mo later, 3mos later, again at 6mo, 1 year, and 1yr 2mos after. I was distraught, so sick, in pain. I had abcess pop up in the empty space, for which calls to my regular dentist was useless because he flatly denied to me that could happen. Had it lanced in an UrgentCare, with more antibiotic as my jaw was swollen and the infection was palpable. Miserable all around. A day does not go by without using clove oil on it for maintenance now that its calmed down. Sincerely, keep at it, and learn all you can from RPF.

 

[nervepain2021]

Lucky you that Yerrag is on this thread, he has first hand experience and a lot of research behind his word. I know, because I was you when I got here.My saga extraction of an old root canal found me on antibiotics 1mo later, 3mos later, again at 6mo, 1 year, and 1yr 2mos after. I was distraught, so sick, in pain. I had abcess pop up in the empty space, for which calls to my regular dentist was useless because he flatly denied to me that could happen. Had it lanced in an UrgentCare, with more antibiotic as my jaw was swollen and the infection was palpable. Miserable all around. A day does not go by without using clove oil on it for maintenance now that its calmed down. Sincerely, keep at it, and learn all you can from RPF.

Thank you for chiming in, so sorry you had a terrible experience and very grateful for anyone who is seeing this and adding in any recommendations. I feel so overwhelmed with the oral thrush/candida, burning mouth syndrome - constant ache/burning, and hoping the extraction is now healing correctly after being recut. I see another specialist on Tuesday and I know he is pretty anti-antibiotics unless absolutely necessary so let's see where things go. Gabapentin is only helping a bit, afternoons go from miserable to nearly unbearable. Clove oil is amazing! I would use it on the burning areas but then my tongue goes numb - definitely been helpful on the extraction site esp after he recut it and bone was exposed (OMG the pain). Hope you are well now!

 

[akgrrrl]

Thank you for chiming in, so sorry you had a terrible experience and very grateful for anyone who is seeing this and adding in any recommendations. I feel so overwhelmed with the oral thrush/candida, burning mouth syndrome - constant ache/burning, and hoping the extraction is now healing correctly after being recut. I see another specialist on Tuesday and I know he is pretty anti-antibiotics unless absolutely necessary so let's see where things go. Gabapentin is only helping a bit, afternoons go from miserable to nearly unbearable. Clove oil is amazing! I would use it on the burning areas but then my tongue goes numb - definitely been helpful on the extraction site esp after he recut it and bone was exposed (OMG the pain). Hope you are well now!

Yes clove will numb the pain, try to use something tiny to apply, dry the area first, you must treat the area only, it can burn tissues. If you have access to certified therapeutic grade which is rare, it is very powerful. I also used PUR O3 off amazon which is infused with activated oxygen. Rub on gums all around the area after drying off area with corner of a towel.

 

[nervepain2021]

Yes clove will numb the pain, try to use something tiny to apply, dry the area first, you must treat the area only, it can burn tissues. If you have access to certified therapeutic grade which is rare, it is very powerful. I also used PUR O3 off amazon which is infused with activated oxygen. Rub on gums all around the area after drying off area with corner of a towel.

Thank you, i'll definitely look into that. I am also using ozonated olive oil and that can provide a little relief but as the days go on - not much. Extraction area seems fine (or burning mouth is so bad it masks any other pain).

 

[Diokine]

I'm sorry to hear you're having to deal with so many issues. Pain in the mouth can be really debilitating. Have you had your homocysteine levels checked? When elevated it can cause serious issues with nerves. Supplementing with sublingual B12, and/or a B12 injection may be helpful. Vitamins B2, B5, and B6 are also important, and experimenting with higher dose thiamine (B1) and biotin (B7) may be something to look into.

Latent subliminal herpesvirus infections can also cause issues like this, maybe you can have that checked. Supplementing with small amounts of lysine may be diagnostic. Prudent doses of methylene blue might also help.

Finally, oral melatonin at night could be very helpful. Liquid melatonin held in the oral cavity for around ten minutes before swallowing is helpful.

Best of luck

 

[nervepain2021]

I'm sorry to hear you're having to deal with so many issues. Pain in the mouth can be really debilitating. Have you had your homocysteine levels checked? When elevated it can cause serious issues with nerves. Supplementing with sublingual B12, and/or a B12 injection may be helpful. Vitamins B2, B5, and B6 are also important, and experimenting with higher dose thiamine (B1) and biotin (B7) may be something to look into.

Latent subliminal herpesvirus infections can also cause issues like this, maybe you can have that checked. Supplementing with small amounts of lysine may be diagnostic. Prudent doses of methylene blue might also help.

Finally, oral melatonin at night could be very helpful. Liquid melatonin held in the oral cavity for around ten minutes before swallowing is helpful.

Best of luck

Thank you for your reply Diokine, I am really grateful for people taking the time to chime in here - it's really great moral support. Yes, pain in the mouth truly is horrific, I try to distract myself with other things - work and kids are a good way, or mindfulness practices, walks, etc. But it is so consuming. And b/c it's gone on so long (though I know people can be in chronic pain for much longer), it outshines any of my painful labor experiences by far.

I do take a raw B complex every morning, I took it once the oral thrush kicked up and I assume it helped. My dentist injected me with a mix of ozone and B vitamins in my mouth twice a week for 3 weeks. He was trying to get the nerves to refire, but so far no luck. I will def look at which vitamins and what % are in the bottle i'm taking, i see Niacinamide referenced often in this forum. But def will look at the other B's as well.

Good pt on latent infections - I was looking at Burning Mouth Articles by Susan E. Sklar, M.D. - Sklar Center - and in one of her testimonials, it was a herpesvirus. I am seeing a specialist next week (not her) so maybe he will detect something ( as well as verifying the extraction site is healing fine)..otherwise I will prob consult her as well. She addresses burning mouth through hormones and medication. I am getting my hormone saliva test done next week so that should also help with letting me know any deficiencies.

I did try methylene blue for the thrush with red light - i didn't see much of a change (i was even on Nystatin), but once i switched to brushing my tongue with baking soda and a drop of propolis extract, things started to turn around (for the thrush). Now it's pretty much the burning mouth in the upper and lower palates.

I will look into lysine, and I have a sublingual melatonin which has worked for me in the past when I had insomnia (now i'm on low dose Ativan and all the Gabapentin so the insomnia is temporarily addressed, but hope to wean sooner than later). I will look into a liquid version as well.

Appreciate all the tips! Anything to give some hope :)

 

[InChristAlone]

Nerve pain anywhere near the jaw is absolutely horrible. I didn't have nerve pain in my mouth but because of a bad jaw alignment I had TMJ and night clenching which led to the worst facial pain I've ever experienced. So bad I couldn't chew without it flaring up and having to sit there just breathing through it. Mine was mainly in the muscles which sent nerve pain through my teeth so I can only imagine what an angry mouth nerve could do. There are specific nerve homeopathics you could try. I can't remember the name at the moment but I had someone who knew what they were talking about advise me on what to get. I took them to help after getting an extraction so my jaw pain wouldn't flare up. I manage my facial pain by not clenching, not sleeping on my back so my jaw falls back and I clench and can't breathe. So I dont know if that would help mouth nerve pain but any ideas about other areas of the jaw might be useful too.

 

[MilenaLex]

My suggestion is about low PLT 159.
This can be low B12,
or starting pernicious anemia,
or MCAS,
or Lyme disease....
You can test B12, but I'm not a fen of neddles and lab works for reason.
If I were you I just would buy Methylcobalamin B12 1000 mcg. Take Under the tongue. If you have some improvement for 7 days-bingo.
Then you have to add B9 folate, B1 Benfotiamin and other B. Only B6 can be overdose... So you can try without worry ?.for neuralgia. The main treatment is B vits and Vit C
2. Inflamation is so high in your body and looks like Lyme disease. Hopefully Not.
Vit C powder Ascorbic acid at least 5 grams a day - anti inflammation, painkiller, antihistamine, allergy relief.
Other antioxidants like Resviratrol from Japanese Knotweed, Pau D'arco.
3. Stomach acid - Betaine HCL, PEPSIN . After protein meals 350 mg. This will help your digestion and improve B12 levels. And many benefits.

 

[nervepain2021]

Nerve pain anywhere near the jaw is absolutely horrible. I didn't have nerve pain in my mouth but because of a bad jaw alignment I had TMJ and night clenching which led to the worst facial pain I've ever experienced. So bad I couldn't chew without it flaring up and having to sit there just breathing through it. Mine was mainly in the muscles which sent nerve pain through my teeth so I can only imagine what an angry mouth nerve could do. There are specific nerve homeopathics you could try. I can't remember the name at the moment but I had someone who knew what they were talking about advise me on what to get. I took them to help after getting an extraction so my jaw pain wouldn't flare up. I manage my facial pain by not clenching, not sleeping on my back so my jaw falls back and I clench and can't breathe. So I dont know if that would help mouth nerve pain but any ideas about other areas of the jaw might be useful too.

Thank you for the ideas! My dentist did do some manipulation but said we'd keep an eye on jaw stuff after the burning mouth is resolved. He did a series of ozone/vit B injections, no improvement yet so I continue titrating the Gabapentin but i'm seeing a specialist on Tuesday to eval the burning mouth/nerve pain + extraction site (different areas of the mouth). He said we need to rule out whether it's a viral/bacterial infection or something else, and I believe he does prescribe homeopathic medicine. I wanted to go to him originally for the extraction but cost and travel caused me to turn to someone closer. Now i'm going anyway, and hoping the extraction at least doesn't have residual issues. Hope your jaw pain has improved, all of these issues can be so debilitating. I can't believe how many times I have just cried in front of my young kids...I hate that. It just comes out of nowhere, usually 2 days I hold strong and on the 3rd day it just comes out. Wish you the best!

 

[yerrag]

Hello Yerrag - boy it's nice to just hear from someone, my family has been so supportive but sometimes I just feel so alone and overwhelmed (even with the gratitude I have to be able to access doctors etc). And I know you are right about this being systemic, it's just a matter of what it is. Your explanation of the festering jaw bone infection makes sense, and the delicate oral microbiome definitely got disrupted. I just can't figure out if thrush started right away, if there was some other oral issue unleashed...and then it got pushed into high gear thanks to antibiotics. But whatever the case is, here we are. My mouth is so uncomfortable, and after 2 months of dealing with pretty constant pain I am so worn out and just want the pain gone. But I also hate taking medications b/c I know there are side effects, so it's that mental battle.

I'm also so sorry you have had the ordeal you have had, and I hope you are on the other side of it. It gives me hope to know that you have been approaching it more holistically and thank you for being so generous to take a look at my info and give me any feedback you may have.

Just in case helpful - I have been eating more 'pro metabolic' since mid December - worked slowly to reincorporate dairy and switch from complex carbs to more fruits, OJ/adrenal cocktail, upping animal proteins and including organ meats, oysters and some new supplements like E). Prob say I have been consistently eating this way for 2 months and then during the month of mid March to mid April I basically ate what i could, lots of smoothies b/c I was so nauseous from pain, painkillers and antibiotics. I have always been prone to low blood pressure, I usually run cold (feeling better with the way I'm eating and with the warming weather, but in winter I wear 2 pairs of socks - this winter I actually developed chillblains which was super painful - it was shortly after i stopped taking zinc, vitamin D and fish oil so maybe my body just tanked in supplemented heat somehow?).

So I just got my labs done last week and here are the results (this one did not include neutrophils and monocytes but I can get those requested if it would be of any help):

May 2021:
CBC (H/H, RBC, INDICES, WBC, PLT)
WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.1 3.8 - 10.8 Thousand/uL
RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 4.67 3.80 - 5.10 Million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 12.9 11.7 - 15.5 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 40.1 35.0 - 45.0 %
MCV 85.9 80.0 - 100.0 fL
MCH 27.6 27.0 - 33.0 pg
MCHC 32.2 32.0 - 36.0 g/dL
RDW 12.9 11.0 - 15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 220 140 - 400 Thousand/uL
MPV 11.8 7.5 - 12.5 fL

Thyroid: May 2021
TSH 2.16
T3, FREE 3.2 2.3 - 4.2 pg/mL
T4, FREE, DIRECT DIALYSIS 2.3 This was my one flagged as high Range 0.9 - 2.2 ng/dL
T4, TOTAL 8.2 4.8 - 10.4 mcg/dL
Negative on Thyroid antibodies & Thyroglobulin antibodies

In comparison, labs from earlier this year - Jan '21:
TSH 2.2.5
Free T4 1.11 .9-2.2
Reverse T3 18.6 Range 9.2 - 24.1
Free T3 2.9
Negative Thyroglobulin antibodies & TPO
AM Cortisol 23.2 (flagged High) - Range 6-19 *Getting this done again soon, didn't remember it was an AM fasted, so gotta go back. Also requested Full Monty Panel

May 2019 was the last time I had the CBC done:

WBC 3.2 (Flagged low) --> I think it's been flagged low for years so this recent test was the first one it didn't come back low actually
RBC 4.57
MCH 27.6 26-33
HEMOGLOBIN 12.6 11.7 - 15.5 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 39.9 35.0 - 45.0 %
MCV 87 80.0 - 100.0 fL
MCH 27.6 27.0 - 33.0 pg
MCHC 31.6 32.0 - 36.0 g/dL
RDW 14.4 11.0 - 15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 159 150-450 Thousand/uL
Neutrophils (absolute) 1.2 (flagged low 1.4 -7
Monocytes 8
Monocytes (absolute) .3

Getting my hormone tests next week (saliva) so that will be more info on the prog, estrogen, DHEA side. I missed a cycle during that first month with the extraction...I have had off cycle spotting for years, but never missed a cycle. Not sure if that was due to stress (my first assumption) or things regulating but luckily my cycle returned the beginning of this month and so far so good. No spotting yet, will see how it goes.

I would welcome any thoughts. I am currently on 200 Gabapentin around 11 am, and 200 mg around 5 pm. Those are the times when pain starts to get worse and just keeps getting worse. Some days the Gaba seems to help (maybe it's also with the Theanine), other days like yday and today - it's just been more or less constant aching from 10/11 am on and gets progessively worse until bedtime. My accupuncture appt brought my pain down to a 2, and she's working on adrenals and some other points - she said she is starting to see a pattern, and of course needs me to keep digestion strong. I have some magnets on to keep the pressure on and will massage those points. i also do some red light therapy toward my mouth, some EFT, breath work, daily walks, and castor oil packs on some evenings (interestingly, the castor oil packs make the burning mouth intensity higher, i recall this and red light doing the same to my throbbing tooth before i got it extracted...not sure what that means).

My dr thinks I need to titrate up the Gaba. If it takes away the pain, I may be willing to do it - I know I can get off the Ativan but don't want to stay on it long, so if I can get the pain under control I can wean faster. I just don't know if the Gaba will do the trick and how much I would need to take, or if I should keep titrating up. I also read about dissolving klonopin lozenges in the mouth, swirling and spitting - that some claim it took away the burning. It's also a benzo but if this time next week there's no progress I may ask to just try that.

In any case, let me know your thoughts. I'm sure I sound all over the place, but while I want to avoid pharma - I also realize that I am not doing my stress hormones any good tolerating pain. Tonite I am actually feeling some of my tongue hurting which is new so I just don't see this going away without some help.

Thank you for your thoughts!

Sorry, it took a while to get back to you.

I should just have asked you quickly to give me also the wbc differentials, as that would give me a more complete picture. Things such as neutrophils, lymphocytes, monocytes, eosinophils, and basophils. All the values in a CBC are related, and a complete picture of your WBC would often give me an idea of why your RBC has certain characterisitics. It doesn't always give me a complete picture, but often it gives me a starting point to ask further. We're dealing with increasing the probability of making a correct data, and having more data is helpful.

Right now, we can see that your hemoglobin is low at 12.9 (optimal from 140-150). It may be related to oxidative stresses that is draining the body of its antioxidant stores, and that is reflected in low hemoglobin. But since your MCV and RBC and RDW looks fine, it may also be that it's related more to iron not being available to make more hemoglobin, due to the presence of a latent low-level (no fever involved) infection. And this is why the WBC and differentials are needed.

Since you're now in pain due to your nerves being affected, it's alright to be using drugs to alleviate them. That's what they're for in acute situations anyway.

One last thing to note is that with periodontal issues, you aren't dealing with just one pathogen but a synergistic colony of many pathogen that includes different bacteria and even fungi. They help each other survive. And they can be anaerobic and aerobic, and the anaerobic ones can be facultative (can switch from aerobic to anerobic to survive and vice versa) and obligate (cannot switch). So when you are going to solve your infection, you will have to have an arsenal that can defeat all their defenses. Not a lot of doctors and dentists understand this. And that is where you'll need to get one practitioner who understands what he's doing or you'll just have no choice but to have a therapy stack that works to defeat the colony. I say this not to discourage you though, but just to give you enough information to be able to vet properly practitioners who can truly help you.

One thing I just learned this afternoon in researching my own issues is that ozone and hydrogen peroxide therapy is just like other drugs in that they have limitations. Alone they can't disinfect thoroughly enough because there are bacteria that will have defenses against them. Which is why having a stack of antibacterials, antifungals, and biofilm busters together in the right sequence is important to have.

Another thing I note is with the use of methylene blue and red light in the oral cavity. I hear your lack of success in using them together. I feel the same way. I think though that it is a matter of technique, which is something both you and I have not gotten quite the hang of. I also tried adding SSKI (supersaturated potassium iodide) to it, but haven't seen it work. I'm using a TendLite which is a pen that gives off red light that I can stick into my mouth. But it takes patience and that's something I should develop myself.

@Jam has given me a lot of idea so maybe he can give you more ideas. We are even as far as having the same amount of teeth extracted, and are sharing ideas on how to keep all the remaining teeth in place.

 

[nervepain2021]

My suggestion is about low PLT 159.
This can be low B12,
or starting pernicious anemia,
or MCAS,
or Lyme disease....
You can test B12, but I'm not a fen of neddles and lab works for reason.
If I were you I just would buy Methylcobalamin B12 1000 mcg. Take Under the tongue. If you have some improvement for 7 days-bingo.
Then you have to add B9 folate, B1 Benfotiamin and other B. Only B6 can be overdose... So you can try without worry ?.for neuralgia. The main treatment is B vits and Vit C
2. Inflamation is so high in your body and looks like Lyme disease. Hopefully Not.
Vit C powder Ascorbic acid at least 5 grams a day - anti inflammation, painkiller, antihistamine, allergy relief.
Other antioxidants like Resviratrol from Japanese Knotweed, Pau D'arco.
3. Stomach acid - Betaine HCL, PEPSIN . After protein meals 350 mg. This will help your digestion and improve B12 levels. And many benefits.

Thank you Milena - the low PLT was of May '19, the labs run now show 220 but that may still be low so I will just consider a lot of my labs prob sub-optimal at least. I am taking a Raw B complex which has the full B spectrum (at different %'s). I can definitely add in a sublingual B12 if you think that would help and I figure not much downside. So i will start that today. I will ask my func dr about Lyme disease, she is working with a few patients now so I can ask what her diagnosis process is and treatment. She didn't seem to see any major issues on my labs, but we know how that goes even with good intending drs. I am taking a whole food based Vit C (3 pills a day) plus Vit c as fruit, OJ etc through the day. I will check if i'm getting to that 5 gram mark. Pau D'arco tea is my evening wind down which I quite enjoy. I am also taking some dig enzymes from my accupuncturist, I also have a betaine HCL one - i will check what the other is, I'm taking them before meals but saw you noted after so maybe i can take one before and one after. Thank you so much for your thoughts!

 

[nervepain2021]

Sorry, it took a while to get back to you.

I should just have asked you quickly to give me also the wbc differentials, as that would give me a more complete picture. Things such as neutrophils, lymphocytes, monocytes, eosinophils, and basophils. All the values in a CBC are related, and a complete picture of your WBC would often give me an idea of why your RBC has certain characterisitics. It doesn't always give me a complete picture, but often it gives me a starting point to ask further. We're dealing with increasing the probability of making a correct data, and having more data is helpful.

Right now, we can see that your hemoglobin is low at 12.9 (optimal from 140-150). It may be related to oxidative stresses that is draining the body of its antioxidant stores, and that is reflected in low hemoglobin. But since your MCV and RBC and RDW looks fine, it may also be that it's related more to iron not being available to make more hemoglobin, due to the presence of a latent low-level (no fever involved) infection. And this is why the WBC and differentials are needed.

Since you're now in pain due to your nerves being affected, it's alright to be using drugs to alleviate them. That's what they're for in acute situations anyway.

One last thing to note is that with periodontal issues, you aren't dealing with just one pathogen but a synergistic colony of many pathogen that includes different bacteria and even fungi. They help each other survive. And they can be anaerobic and aerobic, and the anaerobic ones can be facultative (can switch from aerobic to anerobic to survive and vice versa) and obligate (cannot switch). So when you are going to solve your infection, you will have to have an arsenal that can defeat all their defenses. Not a lot of doctors and dentists understand this. And that is where you'll need to get one practitioner who understands what he's doing or you'll just have no choice but to have a therapy stack that works to defeat the colony. I say this not to discourage you though, but just to give you enough information to be able to vet properly practitioners who can truly help you.

One thing I just learned this afternoon in researching my own issues is that ozone and hydrogen peroxide therapy is just like other drugs in that they have limitations. Alone they can't disinfect thoroughly enough because there are bacteria that will have defenses against them. Which is why having a stack of antibacterials, antifungals, and biofilm busters together in the right sequence is important to have.

Another thing I note is with the use of methylene blue and red light in the oral cavity. I hear your lack of success in using them together. I feel the same way. I think though that it is a matter of technique, which is something both you and I have not gotten quite the hang of. I also tried adding SSKI (supersaturated potassium iodide) to it, but haven't seen it work. I'm using a TendLite which is a pen that gives off red light that I can stick into my mouth. But it takes patience and that's something I should develop myself.

@Jam has given me a lot of idea so maybe he can give you more ideas. We are even as far as having the same amount of teeth extracted, and are sharing ideas on how to keep all the remaining teeth in place.

Thank you for replying and I would welcome @Jam's feedback as well. I will attach the full labs for you so you can see everything and if there is something missing, my dr is fairly agreeable about new requests (or i will just find a way to get them done). I am supposed to be getting a Full Monty soon as well, just following up with her asst on whether it's been put in for request (and whether the lab can cover all the values - otherwise i will just order it directly online).

Appreciate the transparency on the full stack approach. It is so hard finding a good practitioner. The one I worked with last time definitely helped - we worked with an independent tester who actually came back with candida and one parasite in the stool test, when other more common labs picked up nothing. I'm sure the supplements and protocols helped, but as I'm learning more from Peat and others - the approach around carbs was likely not sustainable. Nonetheless I transitioned back to eating carbs over time anyway, I just was eating a lot more complex ones, nuts, etc. Now it's been a few short months of transitioning more toward raw dairy, fruit, more animal protein, collagen, bone broth, etc. My daily supplements (in case helpful) are:
Systemic Enzymes (Mitolife) - 3 when i wake up
.5 Ativan (upon wake up)
NAC - 1 pill with above
L-Theanine 200 mg - upon waking

Raw B complex (with breakfast) - was thinking Niacinamide but maybe just stick with full spectrum B - I stared b/c of thrush on tongue which looks gone but specialist will verify next week. Oral swab from reg doctor came back negative for candida
Whole Food C (I think it's camu powder based - 3 per day)
Shilajit (2 pills at bfast with coffee after meal- mitolife),
accupuncture herbs (Standard process - Cataplex AC, Zypan dig enzyme, Biodent),
dessicated Liver pill (4/day unless I eat some actual liver),
Vit E - 1 per day (Mitolife, may switch to UNIQUE E - getting a lot of acne in new places this week, some must be hormonal around my chin but on my temples, neck etc is new - not sure if it's detoxing, liver, etc).
Caprylic Acid - 1 pill twice a day (lunch & dinner)
Oregano oil P73 - NA Herb & Spice - 1 pill twice a day (lunch & dinner)
Mushroom based liver pill when i take the 2 above ones for candida
Gabapentin - 300 mg ~11 am, 300 mg ~2 pm, 300 mg ~6 pm --> Yday was at 200mg at those intervals and only some pain relief. pain usually starts around 10 am, so seeing how high a dose I'm willing to go until it works or figure it doesn't work.
L-Theanine - 2nd dose usually around 6 or 7 pm
Ativan - .75 mg at night before bed (just titrated down from last night 1 mg - will stay here for 1 week)
Aspirin - I usually cut up a 375 mg tablet and will take 1/2 in coconut water after lunch...and then the other 1/2 in my Pau Darco tea around 8 pm
Just added 3 mg melatonin yday per someone's recommendation. With the Ativan I usually fall asleep easily and then wake up around 3 am, use the restroom and fall back asleep. The last 2 nights that post 3 am has been more wakeful but I do fall in and out of sleep until wake up. I have not been a great sleeper even before this all happened but just noticing a more restless pattern. Likely also due to the fact that I was popping a 50 mg Gaba in the middle of the night before and now my last dose is around 6 or 7 pm.
I was taking Alpha Lipoic acid b/c i had read someone saying it helped with Burning Mouth but i felt some stomach distress so I stopped.

I have a small GembaRed light - I just put it as close to my mouth as possible and sit there for 10-15 mins, twice a day.

Did not think about possible Lyme until it was mentioned above so not sure if that could be something (or something else lying dormant). I recall years ago someone read my labs and said they were concerned about the Neutrophils and Monocytes (I think), that the ratio made him believe something was festering. But i was younger and felt fine, so I took some of his supplements for a bit and then life went on.

I really hope this specialist can help me eval the oral microbiome with perspective holistically toward the body. It's what he says he does. Meanwhile, i'm also praying the nerve pain meds kick in, at this point some relief would just allow me to think more logically.

Again thank you for taking time to reply and eval.

 

[nervepain2021]

Thank you for replying and I would welcome @Jam's feedback as well. I will attach the full labs for you so you can see everything and if there is something missing, my dr is fairly agreeable about new requests (or i will just find a way to get them done). I am supposed to be getting a Full Monty soon as well, just following up with her asst on whether it's been put in for request (and whether the lab can cover all the values - otherwise i will just order it directly online).

Appreciate the transparency on the full stack approach. It is so hard finding a good practitioner. The one I worked with last time definitely helped - we worked with an independent tester who actually came back with candida and one parasite in the stool test, when other more common labs picked up nothing. I'm sure the supplements and protocols helped, but as I'm learning more from Peat and others - the approach around carbs was likely not sustainable. Nonetheless I transitioned back to eating carbs over time anyway, I just was eating a lot more complex ones, nuts, etc. Now it's been a few short months of transitioning more toward raw dairy, fruit, more animal protein, collagen, bone broth, etc. My daily supplements (in case helpful) are:
Systemic Enzymes (Mitolife) - 3 when i wake up
.5 Ativan (upon wake up)
NAC - 1 pill with above
L-Theanine 200 mg - upon waking

Raw B complex (with breakfast) - was thinking Niacinamide but maybe just stick with full spectrum B - I stared b/c of thrush on tongue which looks gone but specialist will verify next week. Oral swab from reg doctor came back negative for candida
Whole Food C (I think it's camu powder based - 3 per day)
Shilajit (2 pills at bfast with coffee after meal- mitolife),
accupuncture herbs (Standard process - Cataplex AC, Zypan dig enzyme, Biodent),
dessicated Liver pill (4/day unless I eat some actual liver),
Vit E - 1 per day (Mitolife, may switch to UNIQUE E - getting a lot of acne in new places this week, some must be hormonal around my chin but on my temples, neck etc is new - not sure if it's detoxing, liver, etc).
Caprylic Acid - 1 pill twice a day (lunch & dinner)
Oregano oil P73 - NA Herb & Spice - 1 pill twice a day (lunch & dinner)
Mushroom based liver pill when i take the 2 above ones for candida
Gabapentin - 300 mg ~11 am, 300 mg ~2 pm, 300 mg ~6 pm --> Yday was at 200mg at those intervals and only some pain relief. pain usually starts around 10 am, so seeing how high a dose I'm willing to go until it works or figure it doesn't work.
L-Theanine - 2nd dose usually around 6 or 7 pm
Ativan - .75 mg at night before bed (just titrated down from last night 1 mg - will stay here for 1 week)
Aspirin - I usually cut up a 375 mg tablet and will take 1/2 in coconut water after lunch...and then the other 1/2 in my Pau Darco tea around 8 pm
Just added 3 mg melatonin yday per someone's recommendation. With the Ativan I usually fall asleep easily and then wake up around 3 am, use the restroom and fall back asleep. The last 2 nights that post 3 am has been more wakeful but I do fall in and out of sleep until wake up. I have not been a great sleeper even before this all happened but just noticing a more restless pattern. Likely also due to the fact that I was popping a 50 mg Gaba in the middle of the night before and now my last dose is around 6 or 7 pm.
I was taking Alpha Lipoic acid b/c i had read someone saying it helped with Burning Mouth but i felt some stomach distress so I stopped.

I have a small GembaRed light - I just put it as close to my mouth as possible and sit there for 10-15 mins, twice a day.

Did not think about possible Lyme until it was mentioned above so not sure if that could be something (or something else lying dormant). I recall years ago someone read my labs and said they were concerned about the Neutrophils and Monocytes (I think), that the ratio made him believe something was festering. But i was younger and felt fine, so I took some of his supplements for a bit and then life went on.

I really hope this specialist can help me eval the oral microbiome with perspective holistically toward the body. It's what he says he does. Meanwhile, i'm also praying the nerve pain meds kick in, at this point some relief would just allow me to think more logically.

Again thank you for taking time to reply and eval.

Hi Again - attaching 4 labs. One done last week, One done in Jan of this year, and 2 from 2019. I have older labs going back to 2016 when I was dealing with insomnia and the labs which came back with candida, if any of that would be helpful I can also link those here. Open to any thoughts around what you are seeing from the data. Can share more once I complete hormone saliva tests and Full Monty. And if there is anything missing which you think would be critical to check, I can also ask for that.

Apart from the acne (which could be detox, hormones/estrogen, or who knows), it's just the mouth burning pain that is most distracting. My emotions are generally ok if I keep working, busy with the kids, and some mindfulness practices (red light, meditation, EFT, walks). I am keeping with moderate carb/sugar, high protein, moderate sat fat - home cooked meals. Waking temps are high 97's to 98.1, which quite frankly was not the case a few months ago (not sure if medications elevate temps but temps and pulses are fairly good). Daytime temps are usually pretty good as well, I eat every 3-4 hours.

Mouth pain is mostly soreness in the AM, and then late morning to afternoon it becomes more of an aching/burning pain - primarily in lower palate and upper palate (upper palate has a spot which goes behind the extraction site, and the extraction site feels for the most part fine or just a bit sore - but nothing like when it was infected before).

Sorry for any repetitive commentary here. Thank you thank you!

 

[Nemo]

Nervepain, I've had this exactly once, at the end of the winter. I raised my thyroid and Vit D levels and it went away. It took about a month to fully clear.

I can't see your labs. How are your Vit. D levels? Have you tried supplementing thyroid?

If that didn't work, Hans' protocol should:

From White To Clear: How I Transformed My Tongue In Only 8 Days » TESTONATION

I recently had a pretty bad experience after eating an off egg or two on top of a very stressed day. At first, my digestion stopped. Then I started becoming nauseous. After putting vomitting off for a few hours, I realized that if I wanted to get well soon, I had to get rid of ... Read more

men-elite.com

Or give Camphosal a try.

 

[Jam]

Sounds to me like some sort of trigeminal neuralgia / AFP (atypical facial pain), but this isn't really saying much, and not much can be done to cure it without knowing what the underlying cause is. I've read of such cases being triggered by tooth extractions, for example, or dental cavitations, etc., and since the pain began after the extraction, I think we can exclude the myriad of other possible causes. Have you had any dental imaging of that area done recently?