Burning Mouth Syndrome following dental extraction nightmare - please help!

[yerrag]

Hi Again - attaching 4 labs. One done last week, One done in Jan of this year, and 2 from 2019. I have older labs going back to 2016 when I was dealing with insomnia and the labs which came back with candida, if any of that would be helpful I can also link those here. Open to any thoughts around what you are seeing from the data. Can share more once I complete hormone saliva tests and Full Monty. And if there is anything missing which you think would be critical to check, I can also ask for that.

Apart from the acne (which could be detox, hormones/estrogen, or who knows), it's just the mouth burning pain that is most distracting. My emotions are generally ok if I keep working, busy with the kids, and some mindfulness practices (red light, meditation, EFT, walks). I am keeping with moderate carb/sugar, high protein, moderate sat fat - home cooked meals. Waking temps are high 97's to 98.1, which quite frankly was not the case a few months ago (not sure if medications elevate temps but temps and pulses are fairly good). Daytime temps are usually pretty good as well, I eat every 3-4 hours.

Mouth pain is mostly soreness in the AM, and then late morning to afternoon it becomes more of an aching/burning pain - primarily in lower palate and upper palate (upper palate has a spot which goes behind the extraction site, and the extraction site feels for the most part fine or just a bit sore - but nothing like when it was infected before).

Sorry for any repetitive commentary here. Thank you thank you!

Thanks for sending the bloodwork. I wonder if you could ask from the lab whether they have the accompanying wbc differentials to go with the latest CBC taken this month? As the previous CBCs from 2019 included the wbc differentials, it may just have been overlooked this time.

 

[Jam]

As far as treating the pain, you may want to try cyproheptadine to see if that helps. See Chronic Pain Disorder Is Mediated By Serotonin. It should also improve your sleep. Start with a low dose (1 drop) before bedtime.

"...Knowing from previous studies that the protein TRPV1 is needed to activate pain-sensing nerve cells, the researchers next looked at its activity in the trigeminal nerve. They showed it was hyperactive in injured V2 nerve branches and in uninjured V3 branches, as well as in the branches that extended beyond the hub of the trigeminal nerve cell and into the spinal cord. Next, University of Maryland experts in the neurological signaling molecule serotonin, aware that serotonin is involved in chronic pain, investigated its role in the TRPV1 activation study. The team, led by Feng Wei, M.D., Ph.D., blocked the production of serotonin, which is released from the brain stem into the spinal cord, and found that TRPV1 hyperactivity nearly disappeared."

Something else to try for the pain and inflammation would be Diamant. Adamantane is a potent P2X purinoceptor 7 antaganost. I had excellent results from using it sublingually for acute tendinosis-induced pain in my left shoulder.

Another product I would highly recommend is Lapodin. The beta-Lapachone (Pau D'Arco) and Emodin quinones are highly anti-inflammatory and antiseptic. It shrank an old gingival abscess turned granuloma next to a molar to virtually nothing.

The Lapodin, Cyproheptadine, and Diamant can be ordered from here and here.

 

[yerrag]

@nervepain2021 I'm glad there are other markers included that are helpful to use . I'm more focused at this year's data, although I note that 2 years ago, your wbc was very low and that it appeared to indicate a viral infection, as you had mentioned earlier . Your fasting blood sugar from 2019 to the present remains good, at the lower to mid 80s. Serum bicarbonate improved from 22 to 28, which is sign of improving sugar metabolism, and so it looks like your efforts are paying off. Your liver enzymes AST, ALT indicate good liver condition.

However, the BUN/Creatinine Ratio at 23 from 2019 to the present is way above range of 10-16. which indicates the kidneys adapting to a low blood volume condition, which is indicated by the red blood cell markers (see below). Given that the body would want to hold on to water more in order to keep blood volume from further going down, it has to hold on to more urea to allow more water to be reabsorbed in the kidney tubules instead of being excreted out. This would explain why your Blood Urea Nitrogen is higher than normal.

RBC at 4.67 is above optimal (not the standard of care reference values doctors usually use) range of 3.9-4.5 (used by functional medicine doctors). My guess is that this is attributable to chronic infection which results in an immune response that produces chronic oxidative stress, and that this leads to the body using its own antioxidant stores to counter it. That you have good liver enzyme values is an indication that the oxidative stress is not leading to tissue destruction, so therefore the antioxidant defenses of the body is effectively protecting you.

However, I suspect that it may be using albumin as an antioxidant, and this is lowering your serum albumin stores, and since albumin holds on to salt, and salt attracts water from the neighboring ecf (extracellular fluid) to increase plasma volume by osmosis, lower serum albumin leads to lower blood volume. Since serum RBC is a measure of the concentration of RBC per unit volume of blood, lowering blood volume has the effect of increasing the value of serum RBC. And this explains why an RBC value above range could very well indicate low blood volume.

Next, Hgb (hemoglobin) at 12.9 is below optimal range of 13.5-14.5. This is consistent with the MCH (mean cellular hemoglobin) being below range at 27.6 (optimal at 28-31.9). This shows you have below normal hemoglobin.

Yet, when you look at your MCHC (mean cellular hemoglobin concentration), we see that despite hemoglobin being low, we see a value that is above range at 32.2 (optimal range 28 - 31.9). This is because your blood volume is low, and it is low enough to make the MCHC higher than optimal range.

This could be due to low iron, or this could be due to a state of bacterial infection internally that causes the body to limit the availability of iron, as a protective measure to keep bacteria from accessing iron so as to limit growth of the bacterial infection. Given your current periodontal issues, and given the effect of oral health on systemic health, I would not be surprised to see these issues have an effect on you for the past few years that led to your current state.

The wbc differentials likely would show high neutrophils and may also have high monocytes. Since your wbc, at 5.1 being on the low end of optimal range of 5 to 7.5, is low, this may indicate a chronic bacterial infection has been going on for quite some time.

I hope that you can soon resolve your pain issues first, and then continue supporting your body with good nutrition, as you have been doing. A well-balanced body will heal quickly. Since you have already began that process, you will not find it difficult to recover.

The immediate concerns are resolving the pain and containing the infection, followed by supporting the healing of your jawbones and the gum. Supplements that will help include vitamin C, vitamin k2, and SSKI. There is still more I'm sure, but over the next few days and weeks, we can eventually discuss more ideas which many will want to add to.

I hope this will help one way or another.

p.s.The range for RBC, Hgb and Hct I used apply to females. I hope I'm assuming correctly, as the thyroid tests have comments (eg trimester, pregnancy) that lead me to believe you're a woman.

 

[Jam]

That's a good analysis @yerrag. Also, thanks for pushing the SSKI in my place as I probably come off as an iodine junkie around here. But yeah, whenever an infection is present, iodine (in the form of SSKI or Lugol's) is always a good anti-inflammatory strategy to limit excessive host tissue destruction.

 

[nervepain2021]

Nervepain, I've had this exactly once, at the end of the winter. I raised my thyroid and Vit D levels and it went away. It took about a month to fully clear.

I can't see your labs. How are your Vit. D levels? Have you tried supplementing thyroid?

If that didn't work, Hans' protocol should:

From White To Clear: How I Transformed My Tongue In Only 8 Days » TESTONATION

I recently had a pretty bad experience after eating an off egg or two on top of a very stressed day. At first, my digestion stopped. Then I started becoming nauseous. After putting vomitting off for a few hours, I realized that if I wanted to get well soon, I had to get rid of ... Read more

men-elite.com

Or give Camphosal a try.

Thank you Nemo! I definitely will be looking into all of these suggestions, as well as evaluating if there is a bigger issue at play (i.e. underlying infection, candida, etc). Did you raise your Vit D levels by taking Vit D? I took a thryoid nutrition course recently and that was a big no no. That being said, if it fixes this problem - I will do it, this pain is truly exhausting. I do go for about 2 walks a day and fortunate enough to have sunshine most days. I also use red light twice a day. Labs are attached, let me know if you can see them (they range from some in '19 and some pulled earlier this year and last week). Otherwise i can try a direct message. My Free T4 was flagged high but besides that the rest seemed ok? But what do i know, I'm totally new to this.

Side note i was a zinc, fish oil, Vit D, etc taker for years. As I leaned into Peat etc, I stopped those in December. Shortly thereafter I developed chillblains (not sure if they were holding up my already low temp, i ran cold for as long as i can remember), plus had a gamut of other issues. Over the last few months I have been more consistent in how I eat, reincorporated raw dairy, fruits and stopped most veggies, beans, lentils, and nuts. My temps just in the last month (despite the dental trauma) have been consistently high 97's to 98.1 (which they were in the 96's before), so my functional doc did not think thryoid meds would be necessary. I am taking a saliva hormone test as she suspects we may want to look at prog, dhea etc.

Thank you for sharing!

Sounds to me like some sort of trigeminal neuralgia / AFP (atypical facial pain), but this isn't really saying much, and not much can be done to cure it without knowing what the underlying cause is. I've read of such cases being triggered by tooth extractions, for example, or dental cavitations, etc., and since the pain began after the extraction, I think we can exclude the myriad of other possible causes. Have you had any dental imaging of that area done recently?

Thanks Jam! I see a specialist on Tuesday who will do a cone beam (I know X-rays aren’t great but in this case I really wish I had one done before the extraction, all X-rays I had done before just showed the tooth...). The specialist is also one who typically sends extracted teeth and cavitation cysts out to a lab to eval bacteria. Someone I wish I had started this process with as my dentist, while holistic and very kind, was surprised on extraction day to encounter the infection (he had done a root canal three weeks prior but I assume a jaw infection was already brewing before). I will update after my visit, also getting hormones done next week as there seems to be some correlation with burning mouth and certain hormone deficiencies.
Thanks for taking the time to chime in! I feel more hopeful every time someone in this community does.

Thanks for sending the bloodwork. I wonder if you could ask from the lab whether they have the accompanying wbc differentials to go with the latest CBC taken this month? As the previous CBCs from 2019 included the wbc differentials, it may just have been overlooked this time.

two different labs did the bloodwork and by two different functional drs. I will ask my new one if we can match it (after calling quest to see if they might have it). She was pretty open to my lab requests thus far, including trying to see if we could break out the full Monty. Then end of this week it was a lot of push back and wanting to wait until my specialist appt etc. I may have to just see about getting it done directly. Keep you posted!

 

[nervepain2021]

As far as treating the pain, you may want to try cyproheptadine to see if that helps. See Chronic Pain Disorder Is Mediated By Serotonin. It should also improve your sleep. Start with a low dose (1 drop) before bedtime.

"...Knowing from previous studies that the protein TRPV1 is needed to activate pain-sensing nerve cells, the researchers next looked at its activity in the trigeminal nerve. They showed it was hyperactive in injured V2 nerve branches and in uninjured V3 branches, as well as in the branches that extended beyond the hub of the trigeminal nerve cell and into the spinal cord. Next, University of Maryland experts in the neurological signaling molecule serotonin, aware that serotonin is involved in chronic pain, investigated its role in the TRPV1 activation study. The team, led by Feng Wei, M.D., Ph.D., blocked the production of serotonin, which is released from the brain stem into the spinal cord, and found that TRPV1 hyperactivity nearly disappeared."

Something else to try for the pain and inflammation would be Diamant. Adamantane is a potent P2X purinoceptor 7 antaganost. I had excellent results from using it sublingually for acute tendinosis-induced pain in my left shoulder.

Another product I would highly recommend is Lapodin. The beta-Lapachone (Pau D'Arco) and Emodin quinones are highly anti-inflammatory and antiseptic. It shrank an old gingival abscess turned granuloma next to a molar to virtually nothing.

The Lapodin, Cyproheptadine, and Diamant can be ordered from here and here.

Thank you! I asked my func dr about cyrpo when I saw it referenced by peat and others. I have been taking 1/4 doses of Zyrtec a few days this week but prob not ideal. She was on board to order, it was gonna be 4 mg tabs which I would cut into 1/4. But then end of the week she said let’s hold and I could just try Benadryl. Feeling a bit frustrated with the change in her energy and will look into these 3 suggestions and order directly maybe one to start. Ty!!

 

[nervepain2021]

@nervepain2021 I'm glad there are other markers included that are helpful to use . I'm more focused at this year's data, although I note that 2 years ago, your wbc was very low and that it appeared to indicate a viral infection, as you had mentioned earlier . Your fasting blood sugar from 2019 to the present remains good, at the lower to mid 80s. Serum bicarbonate improved from 22 to 28, which is sign of improving sugar metabolism, and so it looks like your efforts are paying off. Your liver enzymes AST, ALT indicate good liver condition.

However, the BUN/Creatinine Ratio at 23 from 2019 to the present is way above range of 10-16. which indicates the kidneys adapting to a low blood volume condition, which is indicated by the red blood cell markers (see below). Given that the body would want to hold on to water more in order to keep blood volume from further going down, it has to hold on to more urea to allow more water to be reabsorbed in the kidney tubules instead of being excreted out. This would explain why your Blood Urea Nitrogen is higher than normal.

RBC at 4.67 is above optimal (not the standard of care reference values doctors usually use) range of 3.9-4.5 (used by functional medicine doctors). My guess is that this is attributable to chronic infection which results in an immune response that produces chronic oxidative stress, and that this leads to the body using its own antioxidant stores to counter it. That you have good liver enzyme values is an indication that the oxidative stress is not leading to tissue destruction, so therefore the antioxidant defenses of the body is effectively protecting you.

However, I suspect that it may be using albumin as an antioxidant, and this is lowering your serum albumin stores, and since albumin holds on to salt, and salt attracts water from the neighboring ecf (extracellular fluid) to increase plasma volume by osmosis, lower serum albumin leads to lower blood volume. Since serum RBC is a measure of the concentration of RBC per unit volume of blood, lowering blood volume has the effect of increasing the value of serum RBC. And this explains why an RBC value above range could very well indicate low blood volume.

Next, Hgb (hemoglobin) at 12.9 is below optimal range of 13.5-14.5. This is consistent with the MCH (mean cellular hemoglobin) being below range at 27.6 (optimal at 28-31.9). This shows you have below normal hemoglobin.

Yet, when you look at your MCHC (mean cellular hemoglobin concentration), we see that despite hemoglobin being low, we see a value that is above range at 32.2 (optimal range 28 - 31.9). This is because your blood volume is low, and it is low enough to make the MCHC higher than optimal range.

This could be due to low iron, or this could be due to a state of bacterial infection internally that causes the body to limit the availability of iron, as a protective measure to keep bacteria from accessing iron so as to limit growth of the bacterial infection. Given your current periodontal issues, and given the effect of oral health on systemic health, I would not be surprised to see these issues have an effect on you for the past few years that led to your current state.

The wbc differentials likely would show high neutrophils and may also have high monocytes. Since your wbc, at 5.1 being on the low end of optimal range of 5 to 7.5, is low, this may indicate a chronic bacterial infection has been going on for quite some time.

I hope that you can soon resolve your pain issues first, and then continue supporting your body with good nutrition, as you have been doing. A well-balanced body will heal quickly. Since you have already began that process, you will not find it difficult to recover.

The immediate concerns are resolving the pain and containing the infection, followed by supporting the healing of your jawbones and the gum. Supplements that will help include vitamin C, vitamin k2, and SSKI. There is still more I'm sure, but over the next few days and weeks, we can eventually discuss more ideas which many will want to add to.

I hope this will help one way or another.

p.s.The range for RBC, Hgb and Hct I used apply to females. I hope I'm assuming correctly, as the thyroid tests have comments (eg trimester, pregnancy) that lead me to believe you're a woman.

Wow, Yerrag - your analysis and knowledge is amazing. Thank you for graciously giving your time to look into this and explain it so clearly (though i'll admit - some still went over my head). I went to an acupuncturist when I was just weeks in to the extraction saga, and his methodology was very painful - every needle was so painful...and then he did accupuncture which literally brought me to tears. He said my biggest challenges were not my liver (my assumption was all the high dose advil, antibiotics and medications which i didn't even realize i'd be taking a month later like Gabapentin and Ativan) were wreaking havoc on my liver. He said I had high phlegm in my body which is a very hard situation to reverse, and that my kidneys were the most compromised. When he did the accupressure it was only on my feet and ankles/lower legs and it was excruciating. He said if i kept doing it, it would get better. But with my jaw pain i could not tolerate any more pain so after 3 visits I stopped seeing him. I am back to my regular acupuncturist now who is gentle, her treatments do include palpations and by the end of the session my burning mouth pain is down to a level 2 (goes right back shortly after treatment ends), and she is focusing primarily on gut health and adrenals. I wonder if i should go back to Kidney guy...I literally start sweating on the table so it doesn't feel like any sort of stress relief..

Yes I am a woman, 40 years old, have 2 kids (daughter 6 - was on prog shots in my hip for most of my pregnancy, son 8 - born at 35 weeks preemie, hence prog shots for daughter, also had 1 ectopic pregnancy surgery and 1 early miscarriage), live in northern California.

I will def look into SSKI. I saw some mentions in different threads in this community about Iodine...mostly Lugol's. Some even suggesting adding some into an enema? I did do a coffee enema last weekend and it was probably one of my lower pain days. I was thinking of doing that each Sunday unless there is any concern. My motility generally is fine, 2x per day...used to be up to 3 but the last 2 weeks I have noticed that hasn't happened and my acne has been flaring in a lot of areas i don't normally break out. I eat 2 raw carrot salads per day and think i have mentioned all my supplements...so just watching the acne to see if it's wrapping up (in which case it prob needed to come out) or ongoing.

Thank you for the optimistic messages around some of the positive trends esp around nutrition. Even in that first month where i was nauseous and literally rocked myself forward and backwards for hours from wake up until lunch, I would just put together a Peat approved smoothie and chug it down before taking antibiotics and/or pain meds.

I will continue on the nutrition path. I am watching to see if OJ irritates my burning mouth more (I have been craving it lately, and always had adrenal cocktails, but will pay attention to see if it makes the gum pain worse). I also take whole food based vit C pills (Camu Camu) and eat vit C fruits at most meals.

We don't know what infection is underlying all of this, I assume the thrush was something yeast related given my prior diagnosis back in 2016. Given all of that, would you have any general guidelines on protein/carbs/fat for me to target? I am getting a bit in my head around 'is this enough sugar for the day...or is this too little'. I guess my labs are reflective of how I was eating the last months so prob just stick with that. The only change I would say is increased raw dairy in the form of goat milk (I was doing raw cow before, now I added in goat). I prob was drinking around 1-2 cups a day before the extraction...now I am drinking around 2-3 cups a day. Doubt that would be too much of a change. I also do some parm cheese at least once a day, and raw cheese (1 oz or so) at some other pt of day. If you have any suggestions on the food front, i'm most open to considering. Otherwise i'll just try and maintain more or less what I was doing before (haven't added icecream back yet though ).

If there is anything else you would suggest in the short term around the kidneys let me know. The 'more intense' acupuncturist gave me a bitter tea which i use just one leaf on in my daily Pau Darco or Dandelion Root tea.

So so so helpful, and so so grateful to you and everyone else on this thread!!

 

[nervepain2021]

Wow, Yerrag - your analysis and knowledge is amazing. Thank you for graciously giving your time to look into this and explain it so clearly (though i'll admit - some still went over my head). I went to an acupuncturist when I was just weeks in to the extraction saga, and his methodology was very painful - every needle was so painful...and then he did accupuncture which literally brought me to tears. He said my biggest challenges were not my liver (my assumption was all the high dose advil, antibiotics and medications which i didn't even realize i'd be taking a month later like Gabapentin and Ativan) were wreaking havoc on my liver. He said I had high phlegm in my body which is a very hard situation to reverse, and that my kidneys were the most compromised. When he did the accupressure it was only on my feet and ankles/lower legs and it was excruciating. He said if i kept doing it, it would get better. But with my jaw pain i could not tolerate any more pain so after 3 visits I stopped seeing him. I am back to my regular acupuncturist now who is gentle, her treatments do include palpations and by the end of the session my burning mouth pain is down to a level 2 (goes right back shortly after treatment ends), and she is focusing primarily on gut health and adrenals. I wonder if i should go back to Kidney guy...I literally start sweating on the table so it doesn't feel like any sort of stress relief..

Yes I am a woman, 40 years old, have 2 kids (daughter 6 - was on prog shots in my hip for most of my pregnancy, son 8 - born at 35 weeks preemie, hence prog shots for daughter, also had 1 ectopic pregnancy surgery and 1 early miscarriage), live in northern California.

I will def look into SSKI. I saw some mentions in different threads in this community about Iodine...mostly Lugol's. Some even suggesting adding some into an enema? I did do a coffee enema last weekend and it was probably one of my lower pain days. I was thinking of doing that each Sunday unless there is any concern. My motility generally is fine, 2x per day...used to be up to 3 but the last 2 weeks I have noticed that hasn't happened and my acne has been flaring in a lot of areas i don't normally break out. I eat 2 raw carrot salads per day and think i have mentioned all my supplements...so just watching the acne to see if it's wrapping up (in which case it prob needed to come out) or ongoing.

Thank you for the optimistic messages around some of the positive trends esp around nutrition. Even in that first month where i was nauseous and literally rocked myself forward and backwards for hours from wake up until lunch, I would just put together a Peat approved smoothie and chug it down before taking antibiotics and/or pain meds.

I will continue on the nutrition path. I am watching to see if OJ irritates my burning mouth more (I have been craving it lately, and always had adrenal cocktails, but will pay attention to see if it makes the gum pain worse). I also take whole food based vit C pills (Camu Camu) and eat vit C fruits at most meals.

We don't know what infection is underlying all of this, I assume the thrush was something yeast related given my prior diagnosis back in 2016. Given all of that, would you have any general guidelines on protein/carbs/fat for me to target? I am getting a bit in my head around 'is this enough sugar for the day...or is this too little'. I guess my labs are reflective of how I was eating the last months so prob just stick with that. The only change I would say is increased raw dairy in the form of goat milk (I was doing raw cow before, now I added in goat). I prob was drinking around 1-2 cups a day before the extraction...now I am drinking around 2-3 cups a day. Doubt that would be too much of a change. I also do some parm cheese at least once a day, and raw cheese (1 oz or so) at some other pt of day. If you have any suggestions on the food front, i'm most open to considering. Otherwise i'll just try and maintain more or less what I was doing before (haven't added icecream back yet though ).

If there is anything else you would suggest in the short term around the kidneys let me know. The 'more intense' acupuncturist gave me a bitter tea which i use just one leaf on in my daily Pau Darco or Dandelion Root tea.

So so so helpful, and so so grateful to you and everyone else on this thread!!

Oh and I'm trying to get a Full Monty test done. Func dr had agreed to breaking up the lab values and running them through a local lab since I had hit my deductible. But then she sort of changed her mind on a bunch of things end of this week. If she does not push it forward Monday, I will just order it online via the Morley Robbins link. That may help give a pic of the iron and some other factors, unless you think it's unnecessary at this time?

 

[nervepain2021]

@yerrag & @Jam Quick check - any tips on where to get SSKI or Lugol's (and what % if that applies)? And then would I swish it or take it orally or topically. I see that the Lapodin etc can be ordered through Haidut's site so i'll get on those as well.

 

[nervepain2021]

As far as treating the pain, you may want to try cyproheptadine to see if that helps. See Chronic Pain Disorder Is Mediated By Serotonin. It should also improve your sleep. Start with a low dose (1 drop) before bedtime.

"...Knowing from previous studies that the protein TRPV1 is needed to activate pain-sensing nerve cells, the researchers next looked at its activity in the trigeminal nerve. They showed it was hyperactive in injured V2 nerve branches and in uninjured V3 branches, as well as in the branches that extended beyond the hub of the trigeminal nerve cell and into the spinal cord. Next, University of Maryland experts in the neurological signaling molecule serotonin, aware that serotonin is involved in chronic pain, investigated its role in the TRPV1 activation study. The team, led by Feng Wei, M.D., Ph.D., blocked the production of serotonin, which is released from the brain stem into the spinal cord, and found that TRPV1 hyperactivity nearly disappeared."

Something else to try for the pain and inflammation would be Diamant. Adamantane is a potent P2X purinoceptor 7 antaganost. I had excellent results from using it sublingually for acute tendinosis-induced pain in my left shoulder.

Another product I would highly recommend is Lapodin. The beta-Lapachone (Pau D'Arco) and Emodin quinones are highly anti-inflammatory and antiseptic. It shrank an old gingival abscess turned granuloma next to a molar to virtually nothing.

The Lapodin, Cyproheptadine, and Diamant can be ordered from here and here.

Would the 3 supplements you recommended all be used orally, or do you have any other recommendations? Just put in my order, should be here in a week! I'll start slow with just one and see how things go/any noticeable diff...then add in another one half a week later or so. Thanks again

 

[Nemo]

Thank you Nemo! I definitely will be looking into all of these suggestions, as well as evaluating if there is a bigger issue at play (i.e. underlying infection, candida, etc). Did you raise your Vit D levels by taking Vit D? I took a thryoid nutrition course recently and that was a big no no.

I got my Vit D level up by laying out in the sun in the southwest desert for an hour a day at noon starting in mid-Feb. But I wouldn't hesitate to take a Vit D supplement like Calcirol from Idealabs. (No soybean oil-filled capsules.)

Remember that your age and cholesterol status can make a big difference in how much time you need in the sun to make enough Vitamin D. 10-15 minutes in short sleeves is not likely to do it.

You've just been through immune system hell with your tooth and jaw and antibiotics, etc. I'd be amazed if your Vit. D levels are okay.

My temps just in the last month (despite the dental trauma) have been consistently high 97's to 98.1 (which they were in the 96's before), so my functional doc did not think thryoid meds would be necessary.

Nervepain, I'm assuming those are your temps at the doctor's office? What are your temps and heart rate before you get out of bed in the morning?

It's not that those numbers look so bad, especially if they're your waking temps, but if you're low Vit D plus a little low on thyroid, even temporarily, it might be just enough to keep your mouth burning.

If it were me or a loved one I was caring for, with the doctor not jumping at thyroid, I'd start Vitamin D double super pronto, at least 5000 units a day. I'm very cautious about dosing, but if it were me, I'd do 10,000 units a day for at least a week. If you use Calcirol, put the drops in your navel for optimal absorption.

If you don't start to see improvement within a few days, I'd probably add a one-time niacinamide flush. Just take six doses of niacinamide, 25 to 50 mg each (with OJ), in one day. It should feel like a lot of niacinamide, like you're struggling to keep up with OJ. That should help with any candida problem in your gut that might be contributing to this.

 

[nervepain2021]

I got my Vit D level up by laying out in the sun in the southwest desert for an hour a day at noon starting in mid-Feb. But I wouldn't hesitate to take a Vit D supplement like Calcirol from Idealabs. (No soybean oil-filled capsules.)

Remember that your age and cholesterol status can make a big difference in how much time you need in the sun to make enough Vitamin D. 10-15 minutes in short sleeves is not likely to do it.

You've just been through immune system hell with your tooth and jaw and antibiotics, etc. I'd be amazed if your Vit. D levels are okay.



Nervepain, I'm assuming those are your temps at the doctor's office? What are your temps and heart rate before you get out of bed in the morning?

It's not that those numbers look so bad, especially if they're your waking temps, but if you're low Vit D plus a little low on thyroid, even temporarily, it might be just enough to keep your mouth burning.

If it were me or a loved one I was caring for, with the doctor not jumping at thyroid, I'd start Vitamin D double super pronto, at least 5000 units a day. I'm very cautious about dosing, but if it were me, I'd do 10,000 units a day for at least a week. If you use Calcirol, put the drops in your navel for optimal absorption.

If you don't start to see improvement within a few days, I'd probably add a one-time niacinamide flush. Just take six doses of niacinamide, 25 to 50 mg each (with OJ), in one day. It should feel like a lot of niacinamide, like you're struggling to keep up with OJ. That should help with any candida problem in your gut that might be contributing to this.

Thanks Nemo, I will look into the vit D stat and use. No harm in mega dosing for a short while. @haidut I just placed an order for 3 of your other supplements an hour or so ago, any chance I can add the Calcirol to that order or should I place a new one?

Nemo those are an avg of my temps, usually waking temps are high 97 to 98.1, through the day stays fairly consistent. Occasionally seeing temps rise to above 98.1 later in day if I do a bone broth cocoa or OJ (watching to see if oj/citrus is aggravating my mouth for a day otherwise will continue on bc I crave it - and right now if I could just not eat and sleep away the day I would, so anything that sounds good and is good for me - I figure lean in).
Thanks again, I honestly feel so hopeful each time I get someone to chime in. You all are awesome

 

[nervepain2021]

I got my Vit D level up by laying out in the sun in the southwest desert for an hour a day at noon starting in mid-Feb. But I wouldn't hesitate to take a Vit D supplement like Calcirol from Idealabs. (No soybean oil-filled capsules.)

Remember that your age and cholesterol status can make a big difference in how much time you need in the sun to make enough Vitamin D. 10-15 minutes in short sleeves is not likely to do it.

You've just been through immune system hell with your tooth and jaw and antibiotics, etc. I'd be amazed if your Vit. D levels are okay.



Nervepain, I'm assuming those are your temps at the doctor's office? What are your temps and heart rate before you get out of bed in the morning?

It's not that those numbers look so bad, especially if they're your waking temps, but if you're low Vit D plus a little low on thyroid, even temporarily, it might be just enough to keep your mouth burning.

If it were me or a loved one I was caring for, with the doctor not jumping at thyroid, I'd start Vitamin D double super pronto, at least 5000 units a day. I'm very cautious about dosing, but if it were me, I'd do 10,000 units a day for at least a week. If you use Calcirol, put the drops in your navel for optimal absorption.

If you don't start to see improvement within a few days, I'd probably add a one-time niacinamide flush. Just take six doses of niacinamide, 25 to 50 mg each (with OJ), in one day. It should feel like a lot of niacinamide, like you're struggling to keep up with OJ. That should help with any candida problem in your gut that might be contributing to this.

Oh and pulse ranges from 70 to low 80’s. Was consistently low 70’s a few months ago as I started upping carbs/fruit and making diet and lifestyle changes, temps were also 96’s. Now it’s typically high 97-98.1 temp depending on wake up, post lunch or a random check later. And then pulse was high 60’s to low 70’s, now low 70’s to low 80’s (the low 80’s are typically more random and after I wake up on some days, not consistent).

 

[Nemo]

Oh and pulse ranges from 70 to low 80’s. Was consistently low 70’s a few months ago as I started upping carbs/fruit and making diet and lifestyle changes, temps were also 96’s. Now it’s typically high 97-98.1 temp depending on wake up, post lunch or a random check later. And then pulse was high 60’s to low 70’s, now low 70’s to low 80’s (the low 80’s are typically more random and after I wake up on some days, not consistent).

So you're getting your levels higher and are kind of borderline, but hopefully still heading up.

I'd go hard on Vitamin D. Burning mouth hurts and you've been struggling with this for a while, so I'd probably go 10k units a day to start.

You can start today, even with whatever version is available locally until you can get a better version in hand.

I'd also make an effort to get some serious sun (though not a sunburn) on a lot of skin. And I'd shine that red light you have right in your mouth.

Ray says thyroid and progesterone will help. If you're not taking progesterone, I would start. Honestly, my mouth healed before I got to your current heart rate and temps.

 

[Jam]

@yerrag & @Jam Quick check - any tips on where to get SSKI or Lugol's (and what % if that applies)? And then would I swish it or take it orally or topically. I see that the Lapodin etc can be ordered through Haidut's site so i'll get on those as well.

You can't swish Lugol's undiluted, it is caustic to mucosa. I would recommend SSKI, which can be swished, but is much higher dosage. 3 drops, 1-3x per day. Get it here.

Would the 3 supplements you recommended all be used orally, or do you have any other recommendations? Just put in my order, should be here in a week! I'll start slow with just one and see how things go/any noticeable diff...then add in another one half a week later or so. Thanks again

I take Lapodin sublingually, 3-4 drops 3x per day if you can handle the taste (and burns a bit too). If not, just put 6-8 drops in some juice and drink it.

Diamant works best sublingually for me, 5-6 drops in the morning. It doesn't taste bad and doesn't burn.

Cypro, I would take transdermally, a drop on the wrist before bed.

 

[nervepain2021]

So you're getting your levels higher and are kind of borderline, but hopefully still heading up.

I'd go hard on Vitamin D. Burning mouth hurts and you've been struggling with this for a while, so I'd probably go 10k units a day to start.

You can start today, even with whatever version is available locally until you can get a better version in hand.

I'd also make an effort to get some serious sun (though not a sunburn) on a lot of skin. And I'd shine that red light you have right in your mouth.

Ray says thyroid and progesterone will help. If you're not taking progesterone, I would start. Honestly, my mouth healed before I got to your current heart rate and temps.

Thanks I’m sitting in the sun at my son’s baseball game and chewing xylitol gum, earlier part of the day is easier but gum is helping keep pain around a level 4. I will pick up some vit D on the way home until I can get the good stuff. And thanks for the perspective, super helpful! I am getting hormones tested next week, I’ve been low in progesterone before (preemie baby, prog shots for my daughter). Tried bio identical prog a few years ago but the dr sort of just threw diff amts at me and I was groggy. Didn’t have the issues I do now, and when I took the thyroid nutrition course they saw improvements in my temps and pulses so they advised to hold on hormones. Now that this has all happened I’m anxious to get those hormone results and then dose accordingly whether that’s progesterone, pregnenelone, dhea- lots to research as I really don’t know what’s what. Thank you!!

 

[nervepain2021]

You can't swish Lugol's undiluted, it is caustic to mucosa. I would recommend SSKI, which can be swished, but is much higher dosage. 3 drops, 1-3x per day. Get it here.


I take Lapodin sublingually, 3-4 drops 3x per day if you can handle the taste (and burns a bit too). If not, just put 6-8 drops in some juice and drink it.

Diamant works best sublingually for me, 5-6 drops in the morning. It doesn't taste bad and doesn't burn.

Cypro, I would take transdermally, a drop on the wrist before bed.

You rock. Thanks for the tips on how to take - I will order the SSKI and follow accordingly. I’m feeling hopeful that these remedies folks are suggesting will help, and since some orders take longer to come in I can do it in steps. Much appreciated!

 

[Nemo]

Thanks I’m sitting in the sun at my son’s baseball game and chewing xylitol gum, earlier part of the day is easier but gum is helping keep pain around a level 4. I will pick up some vit D on the way home until I can get the good stuff. And thanks for the perspective, super helpful! I am getting hormones tested next week, I’ve been low in progesterone before (preemie baby, prog shots for my daughter). Tried bio identical prog a few years ago but the dr sort of just threw diff amts at me and I was groggy. Didn’t have the issues I do now, and when I took the thyroid nutrition course they saw improvements in my temps and pulses so they advised to hold on hormones. Now that this has all happened I’m anxious to get those hormone results and then dose accordingly whether that’s progesterone, pregnenelone, dhea- lots to research as I really don’t know what’s what. Thank you!!

Sounds very good, Nervepain. All of that will truly help. So sorry you are suffering.

You know, one of the reasons you will like progesterone is it opposes all the stress hormones, which are terrible for your immune system. It is going to feel very good after the stress you've been through with this. Also, anything you can do to reduce stress is going to help right now. Are you doing your ice cream at bedtime with a little salt? Watching sunsets? Relaxing baths? Letting your family spoil you?

I keep thinking about when I had this, and it's clear to me that as the amount of worthwhile sun increased toward the end of February here (getting my Vit. D levels up at a faster rate), the healing got a lot faster.

 

[nervepain2021]

Sounds very good, Nervepain. All of that will truly help. So sorry you are suffering.

You know, one of the reasons you will like progesterone is it opposes all the stress hormones, which are terrible for your immune system. It is going to feel very good after the stress you've been through with this. Also, anything you can do to reduce stress is going to help right now. Are you doing your ice cream at bedtime with a little salt? Watching sunsets? Relaxing baths? Letting your family spoil you?

I keep thinking about when I had this, and it's clear to me that as the amount of worthwhile sun increased toward the end of February here (getting my Vit. D levels up at a faster rate), the healing got a lot faster.

Thanks for the moral support Nemo! I will def prioritize vit D and sunlight. My husband said let’s fly somewhere warm but I got a little anxiety over that, maybe after the specialist visit next week I will consider it. I took the icecream away when the oral thrush happened, got scared of candida. In the last few weeks I have titrated back up on my fruits and sugar, so far seems fine. My tongue went from thrush, to bald red, to now having a slight white coating which mirrors anyone in my family. Plus my taste finally came back which had been metallic since the extraction day. So it’s really the burning mouth in the upper and lower palates that is left. I may try that niacinamide for the candida/whatever gut stuff is going on plus some other remedies that folks on this thread have so kindly shared. But the icecream should come back.
My family has been amazing, my husband encourages me to be more social and that’s been hard. I had two days of tears just coming out of nowhere, but today is better-I was out, going for a walk with my sister later and life feels hopeful again. The pain hasn’t diminished much and I have increased the Gabapentin so unfortunately that may not be working for me. Im
Hoping some of these other supplements bring the pain down so that I don’t need to take it anyway. I know during the extraction and infection, 800 mg Advil was the only thing that worked. I haven’t tried it since last month bc I felt like I had taken SO much of it, but may be worth trying just for relief.
Thanks again, esp for chiming in on a Saturday! Hope you all are having a great weekend

 

[akgrrrl]

Resistance to gabapentin is legend. The more you take the more you need. My experiment with that concoction was shortlived

Thanks for the moral support Nemo! I will def prioritize vit D and sunlight. My husband said let’s fly somewhere warm but I got a little anxiety over that, maybe after the specialist visit next week I will consider it. I took the icecream away when the oral thrush happened, got scared of candida. In the last few weeks I have titrated back up on my fruits and sugar, so far seems fine. My tongue went from thrush, to bald red, to now having a slight white coating which mirrors anyone in my family. Plus my taste finally came back which had been metallic since the extraction day. So it’s really the burning mouth in the upper and lower palates that is left. I may try that niacinamide for the candida/whatever gut stuff is going on plus some other remedies that folks on this thread have so kindly shared. But the icecream should come back.
My family has been amazing, my husband encourages me to be more social and that’s been hard. I had two days of tears just coming out of nowhere, but today is better-I was out, going for a walk with my sister later and life feels hopeful again. The pain hasn’t diminished much and I have increased the Gabapentin so unfortunately that may not be working for me. Im
Hoping some of these other supplements bring the pain down so that I don’t need to take it anyway. I know during the extraction and infection, 800 mg Advil was the only thing that worked. I haven’t tried it since last month bc I felt like I had taken SO much of it, but may be worth trying just for relief.
Thanks again, esp for chiming in on a Saturday! Hope you all are having a great weekend