Trying To Achieve And Maintain Supraphysiological Levels Of Androgens Log

[Lucifel]

Hello everyone,

18yr male here. I found about Peat on the AM forum, and became pretty interested on his contradictory views. After reading countless topics, here I am doing my own and anxious to apply everything that I gathered.
I will be doing some experiments to see how far can I push my androgens with a few steroids/supplements and of course, lifestyle and diet changes.




What I plan to do:

Mon:

- Androsterone + Pansterone (3 drops each)

Tur:

- Vitamin E from HealtNatura 1200mg

Wed:

- Pregnenolone 30-50mg in divided doses

Repeat


Everyday:

- 1 gallon of skimmed chocolate milk
- 1 and a half quarter of oj with plenty of sugar and salt
- 1oz of liver with a cup of grape juice
- ~300g sugar
- Niacinamide (between 1 and 3 grams)
- Aspirin (between 500 mg and 2000mg)
- Taurine (1-4g)
- Sodium bicarbonate (1 tbsp)
- Coconut oil (1 tbsp)
- Collagen (4 teaspoons)
- Vitamin K2 (10mg, 4 being on testes)
- Plenty of sunlight and redlight (will focus more on thyroid and testes)
- Cypro (2-4mg)
- Will try to get some green broth just in case the k2 doesn't cover the blood thinning effects of Aspirin and E.



Don't have bloodtests, but T was at mid 500's last time I checked. It's curious, I've been working out again since November and looks like I have been gaining weight fairly easy and almost none of it seems to be fat (gaining something like 1.5kg every week. Started at 55kg and now at 66kg. Definition is still about the same, so probably not water weight either. Probably glycogen + bone mass + muscle mass)

If everything goes as planned, T should pass the 1000's with this protocol. This diet of mine is also low fat/pufa (3g), so androgens will probably increase even further when pufa is minimum.

Estrogen levels will probably be crushed while following this, but I'm doing nofap/sex, so this shouldn't be a problem. We will see about the joint problems if/when they appear.


Would appreciate the 2c of anyone with experiences to share.

 

[ecstatichamster]

look up a post from @haidut maybe 3 years ago...let me see if I can find it
Sexuality And Libido Through A Peat Prism

 

[Waynish]

Isn't that a lot of different substances to start all at the same time? I've usually been manipulating one substance at once and having a baseline of real food. Is this not the normal approach?

 

[Lucifel]

look up a post from @haidut maybe 3 years ago...let me see if I can find it
Sexuality And Libido Through A Peat Prism

Yeah, the majority of this protocol was actually based on Haidut's post, just with a few adjustments so that I could maintain it indefinitely.

 

[Lucifel]

Isn't that a lot of different substances to start all at the same time? I've usually been manipulating one substance at once and having a baseline of real food. Is this not the normal approach?

For now, I'm trying to gauge the effect of each substance separately. If the effect of all them combined becomes too strong, I'm going reduce/remove the dose/substance.

 

[PUTFOT]

Following your progress.

 

[encerent]

Your T will only get that high if you sleep well. The hormones you're supplementing with theoretically should help with sleep. But I (as a younger guy, not quite young as you though) have found that adding hormones, even small amounts and even safe ones like pregnenolone can negatively affect my sleep.

 

[encerent]

Here's another view of pregnenolone you should consider, especially since you're young and your diet will be nearly perfect.

"Daily use of pregnenolone over prolonged periods should be no more than 1 to 3 mg unless you are closely followed by a health care practitioner familiar with the clinical uses of this hormone. Current dosage available over the counter, such as 25, 50, or 100 mg are TOO high. If you purchase a 10 mg pill or capsule, take a portion of it if you plan to take it on a regular basis."

Pregnenolone side effects, benefit, dosage danger supplement

This has been my experience as well. Taking hormones ruins my sleep. You're dead-on with your "Everyday" routine which is very similar to mine.

 

[Lucifel]

Following your progress.

Welcome. Feel free to leave any comments/suggestions on this protocol.

Your T will only get that high if you sleep well. The hormones you're supplementing with theoretically should help with sleep. But I (as a younger guy, not quite young as you though) have found that adding hormones, even small amounts and even safe ones like pregnenolone can negatively affect my sleep.

Yeah, forgot to mention that I'm also doing some measures to get a restful sleep (exercising early on the day, getting a light walk on the night, using blue light blocking glasses and having a cup of whole milk with honey and gelatin before bed plus cypro). If this isn't enough, I will have to reduce the doses or only use the Andro+Pans combo once a week.

Here's another view of pregnenolone you should consider, especially since you're young and your diet will be nearly perfect.


Pregnenolone side effects, benefit, dosage danger supplement

This has been my experience as well. Taking hormones ruins my sleep. You're dead-on with your "Everyday" routine which is very similar to mine.

I was interested in using this "high" of a dose because of the potential convertion of pregnenolone to progesterone, which I'm also interested on increasing.
But you are right on me probably don't needing a dose that high, so I will slowly increase the dose and stop once I start to have a negative reaction.

 

[Rand56]

@Lucifel You may end up finding that that your Vit E dose is too high, if you continue on with it in conjunction with the 3 drops of Andro. You could possibly shoot your estrogen down too low, but I guess you'll know if that happens.

 

[Constatine]

I'm very excited to see these results.

 

[X3CyO]

Hello everyone,

18yr male here. I found about Peat on the AM forum, and became pretty interested on his contradictory views. After reading countless topics, here I am doing my own and anxious to apply everything that I gathered.
I will be doing some experiments to see how far can I push my androgens with a few steroids/supplements and of course, lifestyle and diet changes.




What I plan to do:

Mon:

- Androsterone + Pansterone (3 drops each)

Tur:

- Vitamin E from HealtNatura 1200mg

Wed:

- Pregnenolone 30-50mg in divided doses

Repeat


Everyday:

- 1 gallon of skimmed chocolate milk
- 1 and a half quarter of oj with plenty of sugar and salt
- 1oz of liver with a cup of grape juice
- ~300g sugar
- Niacinamide (between 1 and 3 grams)
- Aspirin (between 500 mg and 2000mg)
- Taurine (1-4g)
- Sodium bicarbonate (1 tbsp)
- Coconut oil (1 tbsp)
- Collagen (4 teaspoons)
- Vitamin K2 (10mg, 4 being on testes)
- Plenty of sunlight and redlight (will focus more on thyroid and testes)
- Cypro (2-4mg)
- Will try to get some green broth just in case the k2 doesn't cover the blood thinning effects of Aspirin and E.



Don't have bloodtests, but T was at mid 500's last time I checked. It's curious, I've been working out again since November and looks like I have been gaining weight fairly easy and almost none of it seems to be fat (gaining something like 1.5kg every week. Started at 55kg and now at 66kg. Definition is still about the same, so probably not water weight either. Probably glycogen + bone mass + muscle mass)

If everything goes as planned, T should pass the 1000's with this protocol. This diet of mine is also low fat/pufa (3g), so androgens will probably increase even further when pufa is minimum.

Estrogen levels will probably be crushed while following this, but I'm doing nofap/sex, so this shouldn't be a problem. We will see about the joint problems if/when they appear.


Would appreciate the 2c of anyone with experiences to share.

As someone who has also done a protocol akin to that with more sugar and juice, good luck.

 

[Lucifel]

@Lucifel You may end up finding that that your Vit E dose is too high, if you continue on with it in conjunction with the 3 drops of Andro. You could possibly shoot your estrogen down too low, but I guess you'll know if that happens.

Yeah, I'm still concerned about dosing two AI so close to another. I don't care much about the low libido effect, only the joint one. I will be sure to report any negative effects if they happen.

I'm very excited to see these results.

I'm also cautiously excited. I've been eating fairly freely until now (that means some not so Peatish foods like bread and also some high PUFA foods), using only cypro and testing lower doses of other supps and I'm still gaining muscle mass (aparently) fairly quick. I want to know how much of this will be potentiated when I combine all these things. There's also the increased jaw size that many users report with chronic Peating/Administration of K2.

As someone who has also done a protocol akin to that with more sugar and juice, good luck.

Any experiences to share? And thanks.


-------------------------------------------------------



Diet on cronometer looks like this, for now:



Protein: 188.9g
Carbs: 757.8g
Fat: 33g (1.8g pufa)

 

[sladerunner69]

Here's another view of pregnenolone you should consider, especially since you're young and your diet will be nearly perfect.


What is the danger of pregnenlone? 1-3mg is practically nothing...


Pregnenolone side effects, benefit, dosage danger supplement

This has been my experience as well. Taking hormones ruins my sleep. You're dead-on with your "Everyday" routine which is very similar to mine.

 

[encerent]

From the site I linked there is a list of them, which I'll quote at the bottom.

For me the danger is overstimulation and insomnia. A lot of people here and many places of the internet report great hair loss (rapid shedding).

For me (26 y/o without serious physical illnesses), pregnenolone, and hormones (whether thyroid, androsterone, dhea, basically all the ones idealabs offers) have done a lot more harm than good in my own trials.

Pregnenolone side effects, danger, risk, and the harm it can cause

Overstimulation and insomnia -- low doses could be helpful for sleep when taken in the morning.
Irritability, anger or anxiety -- low doses could actually ease a person into a relaxed feeling, while higher amounts may lead to irritability.
Acne can occur due to the probable conversion of this hormone into androgens.
Headaches are possible with high dosages or low dosages used over several days or weeks.
Possible scalp hair loss if used daily for prolonged periods. Pregnenolone converts into DHEA, which in turn converts into testosterone and possibly on to DHT. It can also be converted into progesterone.
Irregularities of heart rhythm. Heart Palpitations can occur even on as low a dose as 5 mg. This can be serious in the elderly or those with heart rhythm disturbances. We had a report from a woman who felt palpitations from as low as half a 5 mg tablet. If you have heart disease or taking heart medications do not take pregnenolone.
Unknown effects on the thyroid gland or other organs and tissues.

 

[Drareg]

Hello everyone,

18yr male here. I found about Peat on the AM forum, and became pretty interested on his contradictory views. After reading countless topics, here I am doing my own and anxious to apply everything that I gathered.
I will be doing some experiments to see how far can I push my androgens with a few steroids/supplements and of course, lifestyle and diet changes.




What I plan to do:

Mon:

- Androsterone + Pansterone (3 drops each)

Tur:

- Vitamin E from HealtNatura 1200mg

Wed:

- Pregnenolone 30-50mg in divided doses

Repeat


Everyday:

- 1 gallon of skimmed chocolate milk
- 1 and a half quarter of oj with plenty of sugar and salt
- 1oz of liver with a cup of grape juice
- ~300g sugar
- Niacinamide (between 1 and 3 grams)
- Aspirin (between 500 mg and 2000mg)
- Taurine (1-4g)
- Sodium bicarbonate (1 tbsp)
- Coconut oil (1 tbsp)
- Collagen (4 teaspoons)
- Vitamin K2 (10mg, 4 being on testes)
- Plenty of sunlight and redlight (will focus more on thyroid and testes)
- Cypro (2-4mg)
- Will try to get some green broth just in case the k2 doesn't cover the blood thinning effects of Aspirin and E.



Don't have bloodtests, but T was at mid 500's last time I checked. It's curious, I've been working out again since November and looks like I have been gaining weight fairly easy and almost none of it seems to be fat (gaining something like 1.5kg every week. Started at 55kg and now at 66kg. Definition is still about the same, so probably not water weight either. Probably glycogen + bone mass + muscle mass)

If everything goes as planned, T should pass the 1000's with this protocol. This diet of mine is also low fat/pufa (3g), so androgens will probably increase even further when pufa is minimum.

Estrogen levels will probably be crushed while following this, but I'm doing nofap/sex, so this shouldn't be a problem. We will see about the joint problems if/when they appear.


Would appreciate the 2c of anyone with experiences to share.

Ray Peat would not advocate any of this,why don't you ask him? Your 18 with a measurement for testosterone from a few weeks ago, with no other androgen measurements.
Are trying looking for a sex change of sort?

If everything goes as planned according to your understanding,reality however will be different and reality is not always nice according to human perceptions.

I'm speculating here but IMO your a troll,part of angry males WSAG's crew.

 

[encerent]

Ray Peat would not advocate any of this,why don't you ask him? Your 18 with a measurement for testosterone from a few weeks ago, with no other androgen measurements.
Are trying looking for a sex change of sort?

If everything goes as planned according to your understanding,reality however will be different and reality is not always nice according to human perceptions.

I'm speculating here but IMO your a troll,part of angry males WSAG's crew.

Would be a boring troll. He's younger than most, but the ***t he's running is very similar to most people here.

 

[Lucifel]

Ray Peat would not advocate any of this,why don't you ask him? Your 18 with a measurement for testosterone from a few weeks ago, with no other androgen measurements.
Are trying looking for a sex change of sort?

If everything goes as planned according to your understanding,reality however will be different and reality is not always nice according to human perceptions.

I'm speculating here but IMO your a troll,part of angry males WSAG's crew.

I don't have anything to gain by trolling here, it would only be a waste of my time. Nice bait, though.

Would be a boring troll. He's younger than most, but the ***t he's running is very similar to most people here.

I don't have the creativity to troll on such subject. I'm mostly interested on the effects that long term supraphysiological levels of some androgens can have on me, and how well can I control them. I plan to do something that will require quite a bit of physical activity on the future, so everything that can give me an advantage without sacrificing my health is welcomed. This protocol is just something that I came up with after reading some of Peat's work (also members like Haidut), which is pratical and can be done long-term.

 

[snowboard111]

I plan to do something that will require quite a bit of physical activity on the future, so everything that can give me an advantage without sacrificing my health is welcomed.

That is exactly the opposite of what you're trying to achieve... "Supraphysilogical" level of androgens as you wish to have is not the panacea of health. Hormones are very complex and none of them are in isolation of the others. It's not with few light reading of Ray Peat articles and some skimming around the forum that you will have a good grasp of it.

But you know, do you for science

 

[Lucifel]

I plan to do something that will require quite a bit of physical activity on the future, so everything that can give me an advantage without sacrificing my health is welcomed.

That is exactly the opposite of what you're trying to achieve... "Supraphysilogical" level of androgens as you wish to have is not the panacea of health. Hormones are very complex and none of them are in isolation of the others. It's not with few light reading of Ray Peat articles and some skimming around the forum that you will have a good grasp of it.

But you know, do you for science

Oh, I know that. I've actually read Peat and lurked on this forum for months. Of course, supraphysiological is probably not the way if one is focusing only on health, but I'm also focusing on performance while not affecting health that much like it would if I did actual steroids.

What I wonder is if supraphysiological levels of a non-aromatizable steroid like DHT (which is the one that i'm most interested) is really that bad. There's only one way to know...